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[STEMO]

And another thing; Boris and Carrie seem to have decided their offspring is female. Surely that's up to the baby?
From now on we must say that a child has been born, it's sexual preference will be be announced at a later date.

You're confusing sexual identity and preference. Two very different things.

You keep saying this, Nick.

But for 99.9% of people they are a matching pair.

Ignorance is no defence. Never has been.
Unfortunately, it mixes well with stupidity.
Garnish that mixture with truculence and you have a powerful, but useless combination

I'm neither ignorant nor stupid, Nick, but if I feel like having a laugh at someone's else's expense, I will do.  I find the way this particular issue has been brought to the fore slightly comedic and, as with other, similar, issues, I'll take the piss if I want to.

[STEMO]

There's no hate in it, you understand, just humour.....of a kind.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

And another thing; Boris and Carrie seem to have decided their offspring is female. Surely that's up to the baby?
From now on we must say that a child has been born, it's sexual preference will be be announced at a later date.

You're confusing sexual identity and preference. Two very different things.

You keep saying this, Nick.

But for 99.9% of people they are a matching pair.

Ignorance is no defence. Never has been.
Unfortunately, it mixes well with stupidity.
Garnish that mixture with truculence and you have a powerful, but useless combination

As a matter of interest what proportion of people in the UK do you think were 'born in the wrong body'?

With a bit of reluctance I will just give a brief answer: up to one in 5,000 is one of the latest estimates, but many just suffer in silence until death, either deliberate, accidental or because they cannot face the ignorant abuse they get if they "come out".

This amounts to just 0.02% Lizzie meaning 99.98% feel they were born in the right body.

People can identify as they like but for obvious reasons Trans women should not be allowed to compete in women's sport, and should not be allowed into private 'women only' spaces.

[dave the builder]

Didn't everyone get the MEMO on this 

*IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT*
During my most recent Facebook "holiday" it seems the prickly (see what I did there) question of "Gender' has re-appeared. So, we'll do this one more time.
Stand in front of a full-length mirror.
Remove crackers and meatphones (if required).
EEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNND ...
If you have:
Tits and fanny - you are a BIRD.
No tits, dick and balls - GEEZER.
No tits - but a fanny - STILL A BIRD.
Man-tits/shrivelled ballsack/small schlong - OLD GEEZER.
Tits, dick, fanny and NO balls - A NIGHT IN VEGAS.
No tits, no fanny, no ballsack, no dick - THE MAN WHO FELL TO EARTH.
You're welcome,
Dr. Boots.

[Lizzie Zoom]

And another thing; Boris and Carrie seem to have decided their offspring is female. Surely that's up to the baby?
From now on we must say that a child has been born, it's sexual preference will be be announced at a later date.

You're confusing sexual identity and preference. Two very different things.

You keep saying this, Nick.

But for 99.9% of people they are a matching pair.

Ignorance is no defence. Never has been.
Unfortunately, it mixes well with stupidity.
Garnish that mixture with truculence and you have a powerful, but useless combination

As a matter of interest what proportion of people in the UK do you think were 'born in the wrong body'?

With a bit of reluctance I will just give a brief answer: up to one in 5,000 is one of the latest estimates, but many just suffer in silence until death, either deliberate, accidental or because they cannot face the ignorant abuse they get if they "come out".

This amounts to just 0.02% Lizzie meaning 99.98% feel they were born in the right body.

People can identify as they like but for obvious reasons Trans women should not be allowed to compete in women's sport, and should not be allowed into private 'women only' spaces.

Once again you are relating to percentages to demean the plight of the trans community. In fact we could be talking up to 650,000 individuals in just the UK’s population, but of course they do not matter to someone like you.

As for your other comments it is clear you have taken no notice of the facts I have highlighted in all my posts on this subject, so as your opinions matter not to me I will say no more before we go in circles again.

[Sir Tigger KC]

And another thing; Boris and Carrie seem to have decided their offspring is female. Surely that's up to the baby?
From now on we must say that a child has been born, it's sexual preference will be be announced at a later date.

You're confusing sexual identity and preference. Two very different things.

You keep saying this, Nick.

But for 99.9% of people they are a matching pair.

Ignorance is no defence. Never has been.
Unfortunately, it mixes well with stupidity.
Garnish that mixture with truculence and you have a powerful, but useless combination

As a matter of interest what proportion of people in the UK do you think were 'born in the wrong body'?

With a bit of reluctance I will just give a brief answer: up to one in 5,000 is one of the latest estimates, but many just suffer in silence until death, either deliberate, accidental or because they cannot face the ignorant abuse they get if they "come out".

This amounts to just 0.02% Lizzie meaning 99.98% feel they were born in the right body.

People can identify as they like but for obvious reasons Trans women should not be allowed to compete in women's sport, and should not be allowed into private 'women only' spaces.

Once again you are relating to percentages to demean the plight of the trans community. In fact we could be talking up to 650,000 individuals in just the UK’s population, but of course they do not matter to someone like you.

As for your other comments it is clear you have taken no notice of the facts I have highlighted in all my posts on this subject, so as your opinions matter not to me I will say no more before we go in circles again.

Once again you hve taken the bait Lizzie....                                                                                         

[Lizzie Zoom]

And another thing; Boris and Carrie seem to have decided their offspring is female. Surely that's up to the baby?
From now on we must say that a child has been born, it's sexual preference will be be announced at a later date.

You're confusing sexual identity and preference. Two very different things.

You keep saying this, Nick.

But for 99.9% of people they are a matching pair.

Ignorance is no defence. Never has been.
Unfortunately, it mixes well with stupidity.
Garnish that mixture with truculence and you have a powerful, but useless combination

As a matter of interest what proportion of people in the UK do you think were 'born in the wrong body'?

With a bit of reluctance I will just give a brief answer: up to one in 5,000 is one of the latest estimates, but many just suffer in silence until death, either deliberate, accidental or because they cannot face the ignorant abuse they get if they "come out".

This amounts to just 0.02% Lizzie meaning 99.98% feel they were born in the right body.

People can identify as they like but for obvious reasons Trans women should not be allowed to compete in women's sport, and should not be allowed into private 'women only' spaces.

Once again you are relating to percentages to demean the plight of the trans community. In fact we could be talking up to 650,000 individuals in just the UK’s population, but of course they do not matter to someone like you.

As for your other comments it is clear you have taken no notice of the facts I have highlighted in all my posts on this subject, so as your opinions matter not to me I will say no more before we go in circles again.

Once again you hve taken the bait Lizzie....                                                                                         

Yep, I know Sir Tigger, but I just cannot let ignorance and stupidity go unchallenged

[STEMO]

And another thing; Boris and Carrie seem to have decided their offspring is female. Surely that's up to the baby?
From now on we must say that a child has been born, it's sexual preference will be be announced at a later date.

You're confusing sexual identity and preference. Two very different things.

You keep saying this, Nick.

But for 99.9% of people they are a matching pair.

Ignorance is no defence. Never has been.
Unfortunately, it mixes well with stupidity.
Garnish that mixture with truculence and you have a powerful, but useless combination

As a matter of interest what proportion of people in the UK do you think were 'born in the wrong body'?

With a bit of reluctance I will just give a brief answer: up to one in 5,000 is one of the latest estimates, but many just suffer in silence until death, either deliberate, accidental or because they cannot face the ignorant abuse they get if they "come out".

This amounts to just 0.02% Lizzie meaning 99.98% feel they were born in the right body.

People can identify as they like but for obvious reasons Trans women should not be allowed to compete in women's sport, and should not be allowed into private 'women only' spaces.

Once again you are relating to percentages to demean the plight of the trans community. In fact we could be talking up to 650,000 individuals in just the UK’s population, but of course they do not matter to someone like you.

As for your other comments it is clear you have taken no notice of the facts I have highlighted in all my posts on this subject, so as your opinions matter not to me I will say no more before we go in circles again.

Once again you hve taken the bait Lizzie....                                                                                         

Yep, I know Sir Tigger, but I just cannot let ignorance and stupidity go unchallenged

But it's neither ignorance nor stupidity when it's used as bait, is it?

[Doctor Gollum]

Proportional representation depends on percentages to be fair and reasonable.

Equality does exactly what it says on the tin and applies EQUALLY to everyone so statistics, and therefore, labels are irrelevant.

Both are fair, but equality is more fair in terms of dealing with people and their rights. Providing, of course, that you don't label everything.

Proportional representation is more of a practical approach... For example, if your workforce is split 50/50 men and women, it makes sense to have roughly the same number of toilets for both, but if you have a 75/25 split either way, then you might reconsider the provision accordingly.

Simples really.

[Lizzie Zoom]

And another thing; Boris and Carrie seem to have decided their offspring is female. Surely that's up to the baby?
From now on we must say that a child has been born, it's sexual preference will be be announced at a later date.

You're confusing sexual identity and preference. Two very different things.

You keep saying this, Nick.

But for 99.9% of people they are a matching pair.

Ignorance is no defence. Never has been.
Unfortunately, it mixes well with stupidity.
Garnish that mixture with truculence and you have a powerful, but useless combination

As a matter of interest what proportion of people in the UK do you think were 'born in the wrong body'?

With a bit of reluctance I will just give a brief answer: up to one in 5,000 is one of the latest estimates, but many just suffer in silence until death, either deliberate, accidental or because they cannot face the ignorant abuse they get if they "come out".

This amounts to just 0.02% Lizzie meaning 99.98% feel they were born in the right body.

People can identify as they like but for obvious reasons Trans women should not be allowed to compete in women's sport, and should not be allowed into private 'women only' spaces.

Once again you are relating to percentages to demean the plight of the trans community. In fact we could be talking up to 650,000 individuals in just the UK’s population, but of course they do not matter to someone like you.

As for your other comments it is clear you have taken no notice of the facts I have highlighted in all my posts on this subject, so as your opinions matter not to me I will say no more before we go in circles again.

Once again you hve taken the bait Lizzie....                                                                                         

Yep, I know Sir Tigger, but I just cannot let ignorance and stupidity go unchallenged

But it's neither ignorance nor stupidity when it's used as bait, is it?

But is it bait Steve?

If it was clearly that then I would ignore it all, but on the OOF when in a discussion (we obviously cannot see the other person and their body language) I tend to take things on face value.  As Opti continues to bang on about this controversial subject with conviction I respect his comments as it is clearly what he believes, but often they need challenging to give some form of balance.  If it is all a big joke at my expense then I will be very angry as the subject is not a joking matter anymore than any other Diversity issue as it does involve very vulnerable people.

[Varche]

Proportional representation depends on percentages to be fair and reasonable.

Equality does exactly what it says on the tin and applies EQUALLY to everyone so statistics, and therefore, labels are irrelevant.

Both are fair, but equality is more fair in terms of dealing with people and their rights. Providing, of course, that you don't label everything.

Proportional representation is more of a practical approach... For example, if your workforce is split 50/50 men and women, it makes sense to have roughly the same number of toilets for both, but if you have a 75/25 split either way, then you might reconsider the provision accordingly.

Simples really.

But even that isnt right. It might be from a male perspective but it takes longer for a female to visit a loo for a pee. Hence why there are always queues. If women designed the allocation of loos there would be more for females. E.g. for a 50 : 50  workforce maybe 40 : 60. This is what they have done in an area of Barcelona. There were other changes too to the environment but that could do for another thread.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Proportional representation depends on percentages to be fair and reasonable.

Equality does exactly what it says on the tin and applies EQUALLY to everyone so statistics, and therefore, labels are irrelevant.

Both are fair, but equality is more fair in terms of dealing with people and their rights. Providing, of course, that you don't label everything.

Proportional representation is more of a practical approach... For example, if your workforce is split 50/50 men and women, it makes sense to have roughly the same number of toilets for both, but if you have a 75/25 split either way, then you might reconsider the provision accordingly.

Simples really.

But even that isnt right. It might be from a male perspective but it takes longer for a female to visit a loo for a pee. Hence why there are always queues. If women designed the allocation of loos there would be more for females. E.g. for a 50 : 50  workforce maybe 40 : 60. This is what they have done in an area of Barcelona. There were other changes too to the environment but that could do for another thread.

Well explained Varche, that is what should happen elsewhere, as yes women do use the loo more than men do.

What DG correctly explains is what should be the case now in equality terms, but then going further as you explain it has in Barcelona should be the step after next!

The times I have been in a queue for the ladies whilst the men's loos are seemingly, from what I can see, nearly empty.  But the physically reality is, and always will be, of course it is easier and quicker for a man to pee than us ladies even without the menstrual equation!

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

And another thing; Boris and Carrie seem to have decided their offspring is female. Surely that's up to the baby?
From now on we must say that a child has been born, it's sexual preference will be be announced at a later date.

You're confusing sexual identity and preference. Two very different things.

You keep saying this, Nick.

But for 99.9% of people they are a matching pair.

Ignorance is no defence. Never has been.
Unfortunately, it mixes well with stupidity.
Garnish that mixture with truculence and you have a powerful, but useless combination

As a matter of interest what proportion of people in the UK do you think were 'born in the wrong body'?

With a bit of reluctance I will just give a brief answer: up to one in 5,000 is one of the latest estimates, but many just suffer in silence until death, either deliberate, accidental or because they cannot face the ignorant abuse they get if they "come out".

This amounts to just 0.02% Lizzie meaning 99.98% feel they were born in the right body.

People can identify as they like but for obvious reasons Trans women should not be allowed to compete in women's sport, and should not be allowed into private 'women only' spaces.

Once again you are relating to percentages to demean the plight of the trans community. In fact we could be talking up to 650,000 individuals in just the UK’s population, but of course they do not matter to someone like you.

As for your other comments it is clear you have taken no notice of the facts I have highlighted in all my posts on this subject, so as your opinions matter not to me I will say no more before we go in circles again.

Once again you hve taken the bait Lizzie....                                                                                         

Hmmm....maths does not seem to be your strong point, Lizzie.

You say that 'people born in the wrong body' amount to 1 person in every 5000...which I broadly agree with.

But then you go on to say there are 650,000 of such people in the UK. .....really.

So 650,000 multiplied by 5000 gives us.....a lot more than the 65 million or so who live in the UK.

I get 3.25 Billion....not far short of half the total population of the Earth.

Perhaps I have this wrong.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

And another thing; Boris and Carrie seem to have decided their offspring is female. Surely that's up to the baby?
From now on we must say that a child has been born, it's sexual preference will be be announced at a later date.

You're confusing sexual identity and preference. Two very different things.

You keep saying this, Nick.

But for 99.9% of people they are a matching pair.

Ignorance is no defence. Never has been.
Unfortunately, it mixes well with stupidity.
Garnish that mixture with truculence and you have a powerful, but useless combination

As a matter of interest what proportion of people in the UK do you think were 'born in the wrong body'?

With a bit of reluctance I will just give a brief answer: up to one in 5,000 is one of the latest estimates, but many just suffer in silence until death, either deliberate, accidental or because they cannot face the ignorant abuse they get if they "come out".

This amounts to just 0.02% Lizzie meaning 99.98% feel they were born in the right body.

People can identify as they like but for obvious reasons Trans women should not be allowed to compete in women's sport, and should not be allowed into private 'women only' spaces.

Once again you are relating to percentages to demean the plight of the trans community. In fact we could be talking up to 650,000 individuals in just the UK’s population, but of course they do not matter to someone like you.

As for your other comments it is clear you have taken no notice of the facts I have highlighted in all my posts on this subject, so as your opinions matter not to me I will say no more before we go in circles again.

Once again you hve taken the bait Lizzie....                                                                                         

Yep, I know Sir Tigger, but I just cannot let ignorance and stupidity go unchallenged

Lizzie loves to go the full Mary Whitehouse on us.

She will educate us all whether we want to be educated or not.

It is her duty.

It is her destiny.

[Lizzie Zoom]

And another thing; Boris and Carrie seem to have decided their offspring is female. Surely that's up to the baby?
From now on we must say that a child has been born, it's sexual preference will be be announced at a later date.

You're confusing sexual identity and preference. Two very different things.

You keep saying this, Nick.

But for 99.9% of people they are a matching pair.

Ignorance is no defence. Never has been.
Unfortunately, it mixes well with stupidity.
Garnish that mixture with truculence and you have a powerful, but useless combination

As a matter of interest what proportion of people in the UK do you think were 'born in the wrong body'?

With a bit of reluctance I will just give a brief answer: up to one in 5,000 is one of the latest estimates, but many just suffer in silence until death, either deliberate, accidental or because they cannot face the ignorant abuse they get if they "come out".

This amounts to just 0.02% Lizzie meaning 99.98% feel they were born in the right body.

People can identify as they like but for obvious reasons Trans women should not be allowed to compete in women's sport, and should not be allowed into private 'women only' spaces.

Once again you are relating to percentages to demean the plight of the trans community. In fact we could be talking up to 650,000 individuals in just the UK’s population, but of course they do not matter to someone like you.

As for your other comments it is clear you have taken no notice of the facts I have highlighted in all my posts on this subject, so as your opinions matter not to me I will say no more before we go in circles again.

Once again you hve taken the bait Lizzie....                                                                                         

Hmmm....maths does not seem to be your strong point, Lizzie.

You say that 'people born in the wrong body' amount to 1 person in every 5000...which I broadly agree with.

But then you go on to say there are 650,000 of such people in the UK. .....really.

So 650,000 multiplied by 5000 gives us.....a lot more than the 65 million or so who live in the UK.

I get 3.25 Billion....not far short of half the total population of the Earth.

Perhaps I have this wrong.

No, you have not Opti, it is me who has!

That's what comes of doing mental arithmetic when tired

Goodness know where I got 650,000 from, but it should be 13,000 based on the 65 million