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[Sir Tigger KC]

I suspect Trump will just refuse to have anything to do with him. 

Yes he can palm off Lammy to his Secretary of State, but he might have to speak to Sir Starmer from time to time. 

Or maybe he doesn't have to. It's Trump we're talking about after all! 

[Sir Tigger KC]

I notice our beloved former leader Boris is strangely silent

Here you go Red! 

[STEMO]

I notice our beloved former leader Boris is strangely silent

Here you go Red! 

Boris is a very skilled wordsmith. But, as we all know, actions speak louder than words, and his actions while in government were abhorrent.

[Sir Tigger KC]

I notice our beloved former leader Boris is strangely silent

Here you go Red! 

Boris is a very skilled wordsmith. But, as we all know, actions speak louder than words, and his actions while in government were abhorrent.

I fervently hoped that Boris wouldn't be the Boris that his critics accused him of, but he couldn't help being Boris. 

He must have been aware that the knives were out for him from day one over Brexit, but he was careless. Very careless. 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I notice our beloved former leader Boris is strangely silent

Here you go Red! 

Boris is a very skilled wordsmith. But, as we all know, actions speak louder than words, and his actions while in government were abhorrent.

I fervently hoped that Boris wouldn't be the Boris that his critics accused him of, but he couldn't help being Boris. 

He must have been aware that the knives were out for him from day one over Brexit, but he was careless. Very careless. 

When he finally decided (was pushed) to leave office he had 150 Tory knives sticking out of his back.

That couldn't happen now as there are only 121 Tory MP's left.

[Nick W]

I notice our beloved former leader Boris is strangely silent

Here you go Red! 

I almost wish I hadn't clicked on that link, because for the first time I find myself agreeing with Boris' analysis that the large number of votes for Reform are the reason for the  difference between the Conservative and Labour numbers. It's the definition of tactical voting by conservatives to give the Conservatives Party a well-earnt kicking without  actually voting for a left wing party. It also doesn't bode well for Reform in the next election when the Conservative supporters will have had five years to forget just how incompetent their party was.


Fortunately, his list of how to get back into power was the same trite fantasies he's been peddling for years. He also seems to have double down on Blair's pompously arrogant post-PM attitude of 'let me explain it for you'.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I notice our beloved former leader Boris is strangely silent

Here you go Red! 

I almost wish I hadn't clicked on that link, because for the first time I find myself agreeing with Boris' analysis that the large number of votes for Reform are the reason for the  difference between the Conservative and Labour numbers. It's the definition of tactical voting by conservatives to give the Conservatives Party a well-earnt kicking without  actually voting for a left wing party. It also doesn't bode well for Reform in the next election when the Conservative supporters will have had five years to forget just how incompetent their party was.


Fortunately, his list of how to get back into power was the same trite fantasies he's been peddling for years. He also seems to have double down on Blair's pompously arrogant post-PM attitude of 'let me explain it for you'.

Depends who the Tory party pick as their next leader (victim)

If they pick a right wing leader who is actually conservative then Reform may have problems.

However, most Tory MP's are effectively wet Liberal Democrats and my guess is that one of these will get the job.

[LC0112G]

IMV - if the Conservatives lurch even further to the right in an attempt to win back Reform voters, then they'll lose even bigger next time. For every one right wing voter they win back they'll lose two left wing voters to either Labour or one of the centerist parties - Green, LibDem etc.

Elections are won by winning the votes of the centre ground - Major, Blair, Cameron and Starmer all knew/know this. The Labour party under Corbyn went too far (far too far!) to the left and lost big. The Conservatives have made the same mistake (opposite polarity obvs) under Johnson and Truss. They need to lose their ERG loonatics in the same way as Labour has largely side-lined the Momentum lot.

You'll probably say yeah, but Reform got 4.1 million votes vs the Conservative 6.8 million. Irrelevant. The UK system is FPTP so what really matters is who comes first and second in every seat. If a voter decides they're fed up with the Conservatives and want to oust their sitting Conservative MP, they'll hold their nose and vote for whoever came second last time. Hence why the Lib Dems have done so well with 72 seats on 'only' 3.5 million votes.

I fear the Conservatives will choose either Braverman or Badenoch as their next leader. If they do that they're doomed almost regardless of what the Starmer govt do.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Are there any centrist parties now ?
Thatcher and Blair won three elections each and were both radicals. Thatcher an economic radical and Blair a social radical.
The Tory party has followed the Westminster bubble to the left both socially and economically, believing that opinions of the people in Westminster and the mainstream media represent those in the country at large.
They have just found out that this isnt the case.
Labour have just won a landslide with less votes than Corbyn got when he was trounced at the last election, which question the assertion that voters always head to the centre ground.
People went to reform because the Tories have been utterly incompetent and dishonest in all sorts of ways and have allowed immigration to explode to previously unimagined numbers, while all the time saying they were going to bring the numbers down.
People just didnt believe or trust them anymore, and rightly so.
This was a very strange election indeed. Partly due to the Reform effect, and partly due to people voting Labour, not because they want them in Govt. but because they really want the Tories out of Govt.
Very few people have ended up with what they really want because the obvious left wing parties - Labour, Libdems, Greens, got less votes combined than Reform and the Tories did.
Although I dont see how anyone could call todays Tory party right wing. And many of those who voted for the left wing parties felt joy at the Tories losing, but not Labour winning.
That combined with a low turnout has meant that Labour won a landslide with the votes of approx. 20% of the electorate
In summary, the voting system needs to change, but it wont be easy to achieve.

P.S. I think we will find out over the next few years that Starmer is at least as far left as Corbyn, but like Blair before him he has disguised it in order to win the election.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

IMV - if the Conservatives lurch even further to the right in an attempt to win back Reform voters, then they'll lose even bigger next time. For every one right wing voter they win back they'll lose two left wing voters to either Labour or one of the centerist parties - Green, LibDem etc.

Elections are won by winning the votes of the centre ground - Major, Blair, Cameron and Starmer all knew/know this. The Labour party under Corbyn went too far (far too far!) to the left and lost big. The Conservatives have made the same mistake (opposite polarity obvs) under Johnson and Truss. They need to lose their ERG loonatics in the same way as Labour has largely side-lined the Momentum lot.

You'll probably say yeah, but Reform got 4.1 million votes vs the Conservative 6.8 million. Irrelevant. The UK system is FPTP so what really matters is who comes first and second in every seat. If a voter decides they're fed up with the Conservatives and want to oust their sitting Conservative MP, they'll hold their nose and vote for whoever came second last time. Hence why the Lib Dems have done so well with 72 seats on 'only' 3.5 million votes.

I fear the Conservatives will choose either Braverman or Badenoch as their next leader. If they do that they're doomed almost regardless of what the Starmer govt do.

Boris was/is anything but right wing.

Totally happy with unlimited immigration and pretty woke and green to boot.......especially when Carrie lays down the law.

More of a Libdem in my view.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

He should form his own Boris party. Vote for me because Im Boris and thats a great thing to be. Tell me what you want to hear and I will make sure thats what I tell you. 

[Nick W]

Are there any centrist parties now ?
Thatcher and Blair won three elections each and were both radicals. Thatcher an economic radical and Blair a social radical.
The Tory party has followed the Westminster bubble to the left both socially and economically, believing that opinions of the people in Westminster represent those in the country at large.
They have just found out that this isnt the case.
L

Somehow, you seem to be looking in the wrong end of your telescope    Thatcher's more radical policies were more towards the reduction of the post-war social structures while economically she was nothing out of the ordinary for a Conservative.


Blair wasn't, and isn't a radical anything. Unless you count leading a shuffle to the centre to make party more electable, which no-one can deny was successful. He would have been equally at home as a Tory 'wet'.


That's one real problem with British politics, as for various reasons large numbers of both Conservative and Labour members, and MPs ought to be Lib Dems. That would lead to most governments being a small Lib Dem majority with the main opposition swapping between the other 2 parties depending on the mood of the country.

[Nick W]

Boris was/is anything but right wing.

Totally happy with unlimited immigration and pretty woke and green to boot.......especially when Carrie lays down the law.

More of a Libdem in my view.

See above. Politically he and Blair could be twins, including their equally odious natures.

[Sir Tigger KC]

.You'll probably say yeah, but Reform got 4.1 million votes vs the Conservative 6.8 million. Irrelevant. The UK system is FPTP so what really matters is who comes first and second in every seat. If a voter decides they're fed up with the Conservatives and want to oust their sitting Conservative MP, they'll hold their nose and vote for whoever came second last time. Hence why the Lib Dems have done so well with 72 seats on 'only' 3.5 million votes.

With 412 Labour MPs, we can expect a significant amount of by elections over the next 5 years where the incumbent Labour MP has gone for whatever reason, and in places where Reform came second. There are over a 100 constituencies where Reform came in a comfortable second from Labour.

As to the Tories, they really need to decide what kind of party they are. Either a Blairite centrist tribute act, or a small 'c' conservative right of centre party that believes in the low tax, small state, controlled immigration model. They can't be both.

Sir Starmer has already scrapped the Rwanda plan and when the weather improves and surge in dinghy crossings is expected. This surge has already been dubbed The Starmada! 

[LC0112G]

Sir Starmer has already scrapped the Rwanda plan and when the weather improves and surge in dinghy crossings is expected. This surge has already been dubbed The Starmada! 

The concentration on immigration is the major problem for the Conservatives. We now have 100% control on legal immigration - 685K net last year. We have 0% control on illegal immigration - which was somewhere around 50K-55K.

There is nothing anyone can do about illegal immigration - never is, never was - unless you want to blockade/declare war on France. So all the while the ERG zealots drive the Conservative party banging on about dingys and coming up with more and more balmy ideas, it just turns more and more people off them. They need to accept there is nothing that can be done about illegal immigration, and move on to explaining policies to the public that can actually work.

Starmers best option IMV is to try and control legal immigration. If he can reduce that by (say) 10% each year then it'll be about 50% (350K p/a) lower by the time of the next election. That'll be much easier to claim as a 'win' rather than concentrating on the 55K p/a illegals. The problem being of course that things like the NHS and Social care rely on immigrants.