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Author Topic: Ukraine peace deal  (Read 9008 times)

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Varche

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Re: Ukraine peace deal
« Reply #60 on: 17 February 2025, 19:43:06 »

“ I'm for peace, trustworthiness, freedom of speech and worship”

Thank god you live in Europe and not in Russia. You could have have been Navalny and poisoned for daring to have a sensible view compared to Putins czarism- make the poor poorer and reward oligarch mates.
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Sir Tigger KC

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Re: Ukraine peace deal
« Reply #61 on: 17 February 2025, 21:51:57 »


Russia (Soviet Union) has successfully fought off several attempted invasions in its history, so its an ingrained feeling among the Russians to feel that the expansion of NATO to Ukraine (albeit they're not a member, but have received weapons and training-even before the current war) is literally an existential threat. That is why they attempted to avoid war through Minsk 1 and 2 and the Istanbul Agreement. It has NOTHING to do with money and everything to with protection of Russian society.

Russia (Soviet Union) has also been the aggressor several times. the 1939-40 Finnish Winter War, the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan, the destruction of Grozny in the Chechen wars, the 2008 invasion of Georgia, the destruction of Aleppo in Syria, the annexation of Crimea in 2014, and the Donbass war from 2014 through to the 2022 full scale invasion of Ukraine.

Zelensky is no longer the President of Ukraine, as his term of office has expired. It would be akin to Starmer cancelling the next GE but staying in No.10. (!!)

There was no General Election in Britain between 1935 and 1945. Does that mean that Winston Churchill was not really the Prime Minister?

Zelensky has banned opposition media, banned the Orthodox Church (has arrested Priests), banned the use of Russian language (even though it's his mother tongue) and some of his ultra-right soldiers openly display swastikas – as have their vehicles.

I suspect that Britain was similarly intolerant towards dissenting voices during WW2 and had German Lutheran Churches been common across Britain, I expect they'd have been shut down as well.  As to the Orthodox Church, or more properly the Russian Orthodox Church, the Bolsheviks and later Khrushchev shut down thousands of churches across the USSR and priests were sent to the Gulags or murdered.  So it's not uncommon in that part of the world and who knows what those Russian Orthodox priests were preaching from their pulpits in Ukraine?

The expansion of NATO, despite the US Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev in February 1990, provides ample evidence of who should be trusted.

Russia is a signatory of the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, which guaranteed Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity in exchange for Ukraine giving up the nuclear weapons they inherited from the USSR and signing the Treaty on the Non Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.  It also specifically prohibited the 'Nuclear Powers' signatories, Russia, Britain and America from using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine.  I bet the Ukrainians regret that now, as Russia can't be trusted.

Finally, if the the now-defunct Warsaw Pact had welcomed Mexico as a member, how would that have been viewed by the US?

Ukraine is not a member of NATO and membership has always been a distant prospect. My own view is that had Ukraine joined with all the other former Soviet republics, we wouldn't be where we are today as they would have had the security guarantee of NATO membership and Russia wouldn't have invaded.

I'm for peace, trustworthiness, freedom of speech and worship. :y

You're backing the wrong horse then!  ;D     Maybe you should move to Russia and see how you get on!  :y
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STEMO

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Re: Ukraine peace deal
« Reply #62 on: 17 February 2025, 22:16:24 »

Thank you, Tigger. I CBA  :)
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Migalot

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Re: Ukraine peace deal
« Reply #63 on: 18 February 2025, 10:07:24 »

“ I'm for peace, trustworthiness, freedom of speech and worship”

Thank god you live in Europe and not in Russia. You could have have been Navalny and poisoned for daring to have a sensible view compared to Putins czarism- make the poor poorer and reward oligarch mates.

I don't suffer from Russophobia (racism) like you lot.  ::)
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STEMO

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Re: Ukraine peace deal
« Reply #64 on: 18 February 2025, 10:58:52 »

“ I'm for peace, trustworthiness, freedom of speech and worship”

Thank god you live in Europe and not in Russia. You could have have been Navalny and poisoned for daring to have a sensible view compared to Putins czarism- make the poor poorer and reward oligarch mates.

I don't suffer from Russophobia (racism) like you lot.  ::)
True, but you are delusional  :)
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Varche

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Re: Ukraine peace deal
« Reply #65 on: 18 February 2025, 18:18:26 »

Lavrov says no NATO peacekeeping troops. Unless China offers, presumably Russia will provide the peacekeeping troops?
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Olympia5776

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Re: Ukraine peace deal
« Reply #66 on: 18 February 2025, 18:22:35 »

“ I'm for peace, trustworthiness, freedom of speech and worship”

Thank god you live in Europe and not in Russia. You could have have been Navalny and poisoned for daring to have a sensible view compared to Putins czarism- make the poor poorer and reward oligarch mates.

I don't suffer from Russophobia (racism) like you lot.  ::)

Your slavish affection and nausiating verbosity portraying russia as some kind of admirable nation is to be pitied.
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Sir Tigger KC

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Re: Ukraine peace deal
« Reply #67 on: 18 February 2025, 19:00:36 »

Lavrov says no NATO peacekeeping troops. Unless China offers, presumably Russia will provide the peacekeeping troops?

Well that's kicked Starmers generous offer to send British troops into touch then!  :y

Lavrov is a lying prick tho....  ::)  So who knows what the endgame is?  :-\
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Varche

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Re: Ukraine peace deal
« Reply #68 on: 18 February 2025, 19:32:16 »

Indeed Sir Tigger.

How about Russia being catapulted back onto the world stage. Europe ( especially Germany) poorer for having become energy independent to Russia. USA gets rid of a huge drain ( supporting military in Ukraine)  Three years on the Sh1t hits the fan elsewhere in Europe
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ronnyd

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Re: Ukraine peace deal
« Reply #69 on: 18 February 2025, 23:12:56 »

I would imagine that the Baltic states are shitting themselves anyway. Though they are NATO members, if that means anything.
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Raeturbo

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Re: Ukraine peace deal
« Reply #70 on: 18 February 2025, 23:37:17 »

Damn right Ron, when Putin barks everybody’s shaking like a shitting dog
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Ukraine peace deal
« Reply #71 on: 18 February 2025, 23:50:52 »

Unless I am confused, and it's always a possibility,

But when was the coup in Ukraine? Before or after 2014 when Russia annexed Crimea?

Assuming that's what started Russia off on the off/defensive...

Now that's not to lay the blame at Zelenskyy's feet, but instability in Ukraine post Soviet Union and a centuries old territorial dispute made for quite a volatile mix from either side.

If the war serves no actual purpose then there's a strong case for stopping it and leaving the borders where they lie.
Russia keeps land it would occupy anyway and Ukraine keeps its sovereignty.

Lithuania in particular has cause to be nervous as there's a Russian supply route to Kaliningrad, but all the while the dogs are left undisturbed, the status quo seems to be working.

Zelenskyy getting all bent out of shape only serves to weaken his position.
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BazaJT

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Re: Ukraine peace deal
« Reply #72 on: 19 February 2025, 12:20:58 »

Clever move by someone to exclude Ukraine from the peace talks.If Russia/USA agree some kind of peace deal and Ukraine refuses it then suddenly Ukraine become the nasty aggressors who don't want peace instead of being the victims of an invasion fighting for their country.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Ukraine peace deal
« Reply #73 on: 19 February 2025, 14:56:36 »

Ukraine haven't been excluded.

The current talks are to re-establish communication with Russia to enable the actual talks to begin in earnest.

Zelenskyy has been chatting to everyone since the thing started. Noone had bothered talking to the Russians so there's some catching up to do from both sides.
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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: Ukraine peace deal
« Reply #74 on: 19 February 2025, 17:01:11 »

Trump has thrown Zelensky and Ukraine under the Russian bus today.
Blamed the whole problem on Zelensky.
Utterly deplorable.  >:(
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