Pensions

[TheBoy]

There seemed to be a lot of pension discussions from the coffin dodgers, including me, so thought we could have a thread just for pension stuff.

Obviously any advice remains seeking an IFA, or robbing a bank

[STEMO]

No one is taking any notice of you. That's unusual 

[STEMO]

I would ban Tunnie to teach him a lesson 

[LC0112G]

I had to Google SP age, but how can it be 68 when I'm 42, for others born in the 70's it's 67 

The Govt announced pension reforms in 1995, 2011, and 2016. Basically, the SP age would rise from 65 to 66 starting in 2019, and from 66 to 67 in 2027. Additionally, the intention is for it to rise from 67 to 68 starting in 2044, but as I said, I don't think that legislation has been passed by parliament yet. As things stand, anyone born before 6th April 1977 gets to retire at 67. For anyone born after 5 April 1978 it will probably be 68. Between 6 Apr 77 and 6 Apr 78 there is a phased increase, explained in Table5 of the PDF.

The is a pdf here : https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7f02e640f0b62305b84929/spa-timetable.pdf

The recent publicity is an attempt by the Govt to stop any WASPI style future campaigns of "I didn't know/wasn't told, so I'm entitled...."

[TheBoy]

LC - when I checked mine a few months back, it had a rather large footnote saying it could change to 68 for me, pending the outcome of a review. That would then come in in 2038?

[TheBoy]

No one is taking any notice of you. That's unusual 

Nobody ever does 

[LC0112G]

LC - when I checked mine a few months back, it had a rather large footnote saying it could change to 68 for me, pending the outcome of a review. That would then come in in 2038?

Yes, it could, but on the other hand it may not. Basically if you're currently 57 or older, then chances are you will get your SP at age 67. If you aren't yet 57 then the govt could bring the schedule forwards to raise the retirement age to 68. However, AIUI that requires primary legislation in parliament, so there should be quite a lot of publicity and fuss if/when that happens. The closer you get to being age 57 without the legislation passing in parliament, then the more likely is that you'll get the SP at 67. 

There is supposed to be a review every 5 years. The current review started in July 2025, and hasn't yet completed. When it does we should know more, but untill then it's all just guesswork. As things stand today it's 67, but it could change to 68 earlier than 2044 if that's what the review reccomends. Hence the Govt website covering it's @r5e with the footnote.

[Viral_Jim]

Basically anyone with a passing interest in demographics and basic maths can see that the triple lock is not (and never was) sustainable. But coffin dodgers vote en masse, so the only way the gov can reduce the bill is to either means test or push the age back so we work longer and (the government hopes) drop off the perch before claiming anything.

[Varche]

That maybe but the UK state pension is one of the worst in Europe if not the worst. No wonder you need means tested add ons for oldies to just survive. Not everyone has a private pension too.

Spanish friends are incredulous at how little we get.  BUT that is what you get for living in a low taxation country! Yes I know , you are reading this and thinking you get taxed to death!  What is not to like about working for 35/40 years and expecting enough to enjoy retirement? These are not NEETs or scrounges but folk who worked and paid in without missing a year.

He ho! Let's reduce their state pensions to pay for layabouts and NEETs.


Incoming.............

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Well said. 
There are many many things that cost countless billions that need to ditched before anyone starts to think about taking money away from pensioners.

[LC0112G]

That maybe but the UK state pension is one of the worst in Europe if not the worst. No wonder you need means tested add ons for oldies to just survive. Not everyone has a private pension too.

Spanish friends are incredulous at how little we get.  BUT that is what you get for living in a low taxation country! Yes I know , you are reading this and thinking you get taxed to death!  What is not to like about working for 35/40 years and expecting enough to enjoy retirement? These are not NEETs or scrounges but folk who worked and paid in without missing a year.

He ho! Let's reduce their state pensions to pay for layabouts and NEETs.


Incoming.............

The issue is that they never paid in anything like the required amount. Sure they paid in what was required by law, but we all know politicians are liars who can't add up.

The premis of the SP is that if I pay for todays pensioners then someone else will pay for me once I become a pensioner. That might work if the ratio of workers to pensioners is constant, and what I/we pay today actually covered todays expenditure.

But todays expenditure is NOT being covered by taxes - the govt is borrowing and the national debt is now almost £3tn. So not only are we expecting future tax payers to pay 'my' pension, we're also expecting them to pay the interest and capital on the £3tn debt that has built up during 'my' tax paying years.

So 'I' am only 'entitled' because I've committed future generations to pay for that entitlement, and frankly done eff-all to ensure the future generations could actually afford that commitment.

Now you can either blame the politicians for promising something that would be unaffordable, or blame the public for believing politicians that are promising something that is unaffordable long term. Personally I blame the public for voting in charlatans who promise the impossible, and if my view is correct then why should 'The fact I've paid in all my life' entitle me to something that was unlikely to be possible anyway.

[Varche]

That is a fair comment. However for every person that has analysed the situation correctly like yourself, there are another thousand who have just got on with their lives assuming that the clever people in a position of power/ civil service are actually doing their jobs they are being paid to do ( by the 1000) and not kicking the can down the road. Sadly we live in such a society. You only have to see the biblical lies told by Trump almost on a daily basis and yet maybe 500 of the 1000 believe it.

So what is the answer? Make Britain a country of high taxation? Yet more capitalism? WW3 so there can be a reset afterwards?

When all said and done you still have UK state pensioners with a pretty poor monthly income if they didn't have the foresight to save eg private pension.

[LC0112G]

Perhaps along with your P60 and tax return, everyone should be issued with a bill by HMG to cover the national debt. Along the lines of...

The UK national debt is approximately £42,000 per person (or around £80,000 to £81,045 per taxpayer / working-age adult. How would YOU like to pay your share? Cash or Cheque? You will get your state pension once you've cleared YOUR liabillity. 

[Viral_Jim]

However for every person that has analysed the situation correctly like yourself, there are another thousand who have just got on with their lives assuming that the clever people in a position of power/ civil service are actually doing their jobs they are being paid to do

But is it the government's job to provide a comfortable standard of living in retirement, or a safety net that provides the basics? I'd argue strongly its the latter, given that even older generations spend their first 16yrs of life not contributing (financially) to the country and then expected to retire at 60/65 and spend the next 20yrs likewise not paying into the system, that's 30-35 out of an 80yr lifespan where there is an expectation that the state will provide for you, which doesn't seem overly realistic. 

When all said and done you still have UK state pensioners with a pretty poor monthly income if they didn't have the foresight to save eg private pension.

That at least is a problem that is slowly correcting itself, we are 15yrs into auto enrolment so people will have to make an active choice to opt out.

But at some point there has to be an element of grown-ups taking responsibility for their own lives. Its never been a secret how much the state pension is, or when you get it from. Even the so called WASPI women, the changes were the subject of public campaigns by the government over a prolonged period starting 15yrs before the changes impacted anyone. I don't see why it is the current taxpayers' responsibility to compensate adults who didn't pay attention to what was going on around them (in the case of WASPI women) or those who failed to look at what their state pension would be vs what they were earning and think "Hmm, maybe I should do something about the massive drop in my income when I retire".

[tunnie]

I had to Google SP age, but how can it be 68 when I'm 42, for others born in the 70's it's 67 

The Govt announced pension reforms in 1995, 2011, and 2016. Basically, the SP age would rise from 65 to 66 starting in 2019, and from 66 to 67 in 2027. Additionally, the intention is for it to rise from 67 to 68 starting in 2044, but as I said, I don't think that legislation has been passed by parliament yet. As things stand, anyone born before 6th April 1977 gets to retire at 67. For anyone born after 5 April 1978 it will probably be 68. Between 6 Apr 77 and 6 Apr 78 there is a phased increase, explained in Table5 of the PDF.

The is a pdf here : https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7f02e640f0b62305b84929/spa-timetable.pdf

The recent publicity is an attempt by the Govt to stop any WASPI style future campaigns of "I didn't know/wasn't told, so I'm entitled...."

Thanks for the clarification