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[Debs.]

Why do officers need to be masked when on duty?....The video clearly shows the Policeman whom pushed the unfortunate chap was masked: it is understandable that officers have personal protection (helmets/face-shield etc.) but 'masking' an individual officer`s identity with a balaclava seems to reveal a rather sinister mindset......I note that one could see the faces of the officers whom were around the one that did the pushing; but the pusher was wearing a balaclava with just small eye-slit under his riot-helmet.

This sad event reveals clearly the 'them and us' mindset of the Police towards the public (whom they are supposed to be charged with serving).

[stuart30]

Why do officers need to be masked when on duty?....The video clearly shows the Policeman whom pushed the unfortunate chap was masked: it is understandable that officers have personal protection (helmets/face-shield etc.) but 'masking' an individual officer`s identity with a balaclava seems to reveal a rather sinister mindset......I note that one could see the faces of the officers whom were around the one that did the pushing; but the pusher was wearing a balaclava with just small eye-slit under his riot-helmet.

This sad event reveals clearly the 'them and us' mindset of the Police towards the public (whom they are supposed to be charged with serving).

Why cover his face...good point.

After all he would have his collar number on display....maybe he wanted the ""Bad ass"" look.

I still believe the officer in question has small peni$ syndrome.

[razzo]

Be interesting to see if police video footage of this makes it into the public domain as they had photo/video teams all over the place, but this plod over stepped the mark as most of them do now days. In answer to Ken t's question the protest at Excel the next day was fairly peaceful

[Tommy]

Further to what I said earlier..

I have now seen the footage, of the guy who died, twice. The copper involved showed no respect at all for a member of the public who was in the wrong place at the wrong time but was showing no signs of aggression as he was in fact walking away.

If he posed a 'threat' to any of the officers how come the dogs were not used to stop him and then officers question him? There were two there at the time and right next to him. The dog handlers seemed not to be concerned about the bloke at all. The masked officer shoved him out of his way with complete disregard. No respect shown at all. Just using (abusing) his power because he's in uniform.

Deb's they are masked so that they cannot be indentified by the media. His collegues will know who it was but he can't be publically identified. They also remove their shoulder numbers for the same reason.

And people wonder why youths and upwards have no respect for the police. Is it because that the police have no respect for the public? The people who pay their wages but are not accountable to!

There is no disrespect to any serving police officers who are members of this forum in what I have written. In all walks of life there are good and bad elements and not all people are the same. However I must say how I find and that is that a large number of police officers abuse their position and have no respect for the public who they are supposed to serve and protect

From the Met's own website

"Mission and values

Our mission
Working together for a safer London
 
Our values
Working together with all our citizens, all our partners, all our colleagues:

We will have pride in delivering quality policing.
There is no greater priority
We will build trust by listening and responding
We will respect and support each other and work as a team
We will learn from experience and find ways to be even better
We are one team - we all have a duty to play our part in making London safer"

Gone a bit wrong me thinks

[mantagte]

To say the police killed this man is a step too far if you look at the video.  The guy had a heart attack which could have happened at any time.

The police defo f#cked up here and what that copper did amounts to assault nothing more.  The fact this guy had a heart attack is in fact consequential unless you can prove that an injury was sustained that led to the attack (very very difficult)  The copper should be charged with assault as he was obviously not a threat, if he was obstructing he should have been arrested.

Oh and that comment about the police wearing stab vests stating its ok to be blasé about knife attacks is utter crap!  I wear osprey body armour in operational areas yet you dont see me walking calmly into gunfire........

i did not say anything about being blase about knife attacks
i said he was not stuffed as ken t said but pointed out he was wearing some protection namely a stab vest
which has saved a policeman friend of mine a couple of times

[Chris_H]

I have now seen the footage, of the guy who died, twice. The copper involved showed no respect at all for a member of the public who was in the wrong place at the wrong time but was showing no signs of aggression as he was in fact walking away.

If you've seen the footage on the BBC link above, the sound is over-dubbed so you can't have possibly heard any verbal exchanges or altercation that may have preceded the push.  As for detaining the man, firstly the aim would have been to allow people to continue with the demonstrations and secondly, the logistics of arresting and removing large numbers on the day would have been enormous.

Hopefully our courts (and the IPCC) look for more water-tight evidence than has been used here to before coming to conclusions.

[Kevin Wood]

Deb's they are masked so that they cannot be indentified by the media. His collegues will know who it was but he can't be publically identified. They also remove their shoulder numbers for the same reason.

Odd that I don't feel the need to go into work wearing a disguise. I thought the reason that officers wore numbers was to ensure that they are identifiable and therefore accountable for their actions. Have they decided that there are circumstances where they don't need to be?  

Kevin

[Shep]

I don't normally rise to the bait with things like this but some of the things said in the thread are complete and utter cr*p!
Talk about watching with 'blinkered vision'! - The man had clearly been 'winding up' the police officers (either verbally or by refusing to move!).
You can see one of the dog handlers walk towards him and reach out to him - so clearly something has happened!
The video footage doesn't show what happened leading up to the incident (maybe it has been deliberately edited that way?)
It is a terrible shame that someone died BUT the police were do (and were doing) a VERY difficult job.
People are quick to jump on the bandwagon and make assumptions - but ask yourself this 'Where would we be without them?'
Rant over!!! - I feel better now!

[Tommy]

This is the footage that I have watched

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2009/apr/07/g20-protest-death-police-assault

I haven't 'heard it' but I will when I get home. It appears to me that the guy got in the way of one of the dogs. Is then hit across the back of the legs with the baton (a permissable area in which to hit someone if memory serves!) and because he didn't go down was then shoved out of the way with force. All because he 'got in the way'
What I have noticed since watching it further is that the officer involves backs off afterwards (would that be to do with the amount of press around?? Question not statement) and then is seen to run off

In my earlier posts I said nothing about him being arrested, merely questioned as to what he was doing and why. As far as I am aware it is not an arrestable offence to get in the way of a group of policemen accidentally. He was a little outnumbered to say the least.

As for the IPCC coming to the right conclusion. How can a body be independant when the complaint is investigated by the police force involved and the results passed to the IPCC?

http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/index/complaints/complaints-pca.htm

Sorry to sound cynical but would we allow the aggressive protestors to investigate themselves? It wouldn't be allowed - so what's the difference?

[mantagte]

I don't normally rise to the bait with things like this but some of the things said in the thread are complete and utter cr*p!
Talk about watching with 'blinkered vision'! - The man had clearly been 'winding up' the police officers (either verbally or by refusing to move!).
You can see one of the dog handlers walk towards him and reach out to him - so clearly something has happened!
The video footage doesn't show what happened leading up to the incident (maybe it has been deliberately edited that way?)
It is a terrible shame that someone died BUT the police were do (and were doing) a VERY difficult job.
People are quick to jump on the bandwagon and make assumptions - but ask yourself this 'Where would we be without them?'
Rant over!!! - I feel better now!

how the hell do you work that one out show evidence if you can
were you there
you are the one talking cr@p

[hoody]

my dealings with the police have not been pleasurable but how do we know that he had not been given warnings to move out of the way,the way he swaggered up around them i feel sure he would have been told in no uncertain terms,as for the officer being masked it is probably fire resistant gear as he has the full riot kit on and it has been known for petrol bombs to be thrown at a line of police who are moving forward.As i say there are 2 sides to this and he should have been moved along by the arm or arrested for obstruction and not just shoved like that.

[Gaffers]

Deb's they are masked so that they cannot be indentified by the media. His collegues will know who it was but he can't be publically identified. They also remove their shoulder numbers for the same reason.

Odd that I don't feel the need to go into work wearing a disguise. I thought the reason that officers wore numbers was to ensure that they are identifiable and therefore accountable for their actions. Have they decided that there are circumstances where they don't need to be?  

Kevin

Having gone through some riot training I can safely say that the masks are for protection against molotovs, I doubt their numbers are removed but I will prob be proved wrong on this one.  You cant see it that easily in this video as the resolution is not good enough.

As hoody put it so well, there are two sides to this story and we have seen a very small part.  Before jumping to any conclusions lets let all the evidence come out.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Deb's they are masked so that they cannot be indentified by the media. His collegues will know who it was but he can't be publically identified. They also remove their shoulder numbers for the same reason.

Odd that I don't feel the need to go into work wearing a disguise. I thought the reason that officers wore numbers was to ensure that they are identifiable and therefore accountable for their actions. Have they decided that there are circumstances where they don't need to be?  

Kevin

Having gone through some riot training I can safely say that the masks are for protection against molotovs, I doubt their numbers are removed but I will prob be proved wrong on this one.  You cant see it that easily in this video as the resolution is not good enough.

As hoody put it so well, there are two sides to this story and we have seen a very small part.  Before jumping to any conclusions lets let all the evidence come out.

Indeed Gaffers I want to see and hear further evidence.

To me the guy is, with hands in pockets, walking very slowly, showing every sign of goading the police by a stance that seems to suggest "you want me to move on, then make me!"

Just my observation, and as I say I want to see all the evidence as these police officers had to be ready for trouble from an aggressive crowd.  Not an easy job!

[mantagte]

http://www.channel4.com/news/

another camera view

listen to what ken livingstone has to say
click on

Ken Livingstone interview: 'suspend officer concerned'
on channel4.com

[BigAl]

according to the beeb the officer 'concerned' has come forward to the IPCC - if so fair play to him, I expected him to hide behind the badge