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[albitz]

I think we're heading for a welcome sea-change in British politics, and this expenses furore has provided the right catalyst. This change will, I think, be signalled by a much higher vote for smaller parties and independents (UKIP, Libertarian, BNP, etc.) at the June elections.

There will be some who are attracted by the more extremist groups, but the main beneficiaries are likely to be UKIP.

The three major parties, with their patronage and whip system, need to recognise that, at the end of the day, each individual MP is sent to Westminster to represent his or her constituents...not to back the party-line, come what may.

A lot of tactical voting for UKIP could be a very good thing imo,hopefully frighten the Tories back to the right where they belong,rather than chasing the fluffy lefty new labour route as they have done for some years now.

[Banjax]

i'm in 2 minds over these expenses - on the one hand - they are a bunch of greedy, self serving hypocrites and on the other hand i think...well wait a second - if everything i bought for the house - food, tv's, sofas, rugs, moats, chandeliers, etc - if i could legitimately claim them through my employer - i'd be an idiot not to.

hand on heart who could honestly say they wouldnt claim if it was the done thing and you were actually advised and encouraged by the fees office to do it?

and again - i can't see where cleaning a moat or polishing chandeliers is strictly necessary to represent your constituency in parliament - so maybe politicians should be held to a higher standard - especially with tax payers money

i'm completely in 2 minds  :-/ :-/ :-/

[Nickbat]

I think we're heading for a welcome sea-change in British politics, and this expenses furore has provided the right catalyst. This change will, I think, be signalled by a much higher vote for smaller parties and independents (UKIP, Libertarian, BNP, etc.) at the June elections.

There will be some who are attracted by the more extremist groups, but the main beneficiaries are likely to be UKIP.

The three major parties, with their patronage and whip system, need to recognise that, at the end of the day, each individual MP is sent to Westminster to represent his or her constituents...not to back the party-line, come what may.

A lot of tactical voting for UKIP could be a very good thing imo,hopefully frighten the Tories back to the right where they belong,rather than chasing the fluffy lefty new labour route as they have done for some years now.

Quite right, Albs.  

[crazyjoetavola]

I think we're heading for a welcome sea-change in British politics, and this expenses furore has provided the right catalyst. This change will, I think, be signalled by a much higher vote for smaller parties and independents (UKIP, Libertarian, BNP, etc.) at the June elections.

There will be some who are attracted by the more extremist groups, but the main beneficiaries are likely to be UKIP.

The three major parties, with their patronage and whip system, need to recognise that, at the end of the day, each individual MP is sent to Westminster to represent his or her constituents...not to back the party-line, come what may.

That could well be the case Nick, but it could be a poison chalice for the new body politic.  The risk is that no party will be in a position to hold a working majority without the assistance of one or more of the smaller groups.  This can lead to confused government, which is as undesirable as corrupt or incompetent government.

[HolyCount]

i'm in 2 minds over these expenses - on the one hand - they are a bunch of greedy, self serving hypocrites and on the other hand i think...well wait a second - if everything i bought for the house - food, tv's, sofas, rugs, moats, chandeliers, etc - if i could legitimately claim them through my employer - i'd be an idiot not to.

hand on heart who could honestly say they wouldnt claim if it was the done thing and you were actually advised and encouraged by the fees office to do it?

and again - i can't see where cleaning a moat or polishing chandeliers is strictly necessary to represent your constituency in parliament - so maybe politicians should be held to a higher standard - especially with tax payers money

i'm completely in 2 minds  :-/ :-/ :-/

Me !!!  (can't find a smily with a halo !)  In my current line of work I can claim the princley sum of "up to" £6 for a meal while out on official business ... yes, some in the office routinely claim the £6, I claim whatever it cost up to £6  (as it's usually roadside burger bar fayre) --- if and when I bother to claim at all!

That apart -- yes, the system is blatantly wrong and open to abuse -- however, some of the stories we have heard are bordering on fraud, or criminal negligence.

[HolyCount]

Disband the current party driven system --- each region votes in whomsoever they see fit for the job .. and that motley crew run the country with a PM whose "Party" is Great Britain !!!!  Proportionally represented coalition sort of thing !!!!

I apologise for my lack of eloquence  

[Nickbat]

I think we're heading for a welcome sea-change in British politics, and this expenses furore has provided the right catalyst. This change will, I think, be signalled by a much higher vote for smaller parties and independents (UKIP, Libertarian, BNP, etc.) at the June elections.

There will be some who are attracted by the more extremist groups, but the main beneficiaries are likely to be UKIP.

The three major parties, with their patronage and whip system, need to recognise that, at the end of the day, each individual MP is sent to Westminster to represent his or her constituents...not to back the party-line, come what may.

That could well be the case Nick, but it could be a poison chalice for the new body politic.  The risk is that no party will be in a position to hold a working majority without the assistance of one or more of the smaller groups.  This can lead to confused government, which is as undesirable as corrupt or incompetent government.

True, but the upcoming elections won't affect Westminster per se. However, it should, with a bit of luck, prompt the major parties to rethink their policies in time for the General Election.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

i'm in 2 minds over these expenses - on the one hand - they are a bunch of greedy, self serving hypocrites and on the other hand i think...well wait a second - if everything i bought for the house - food, tv, sofas, rugs, moats, chandeliers, etc - if i could legitimately claim them through my employer - i'd be an idiot not to.

hand on heart who could honestly say they wouldn't claim if it was the done thing and you were actually advised and encouraged by the fees office to do it?

and again - i can't see where cleaning a moat or polishing chandeliers is strictly necessary to represent your constituency in parliament - so maybe politicians should be held to a higher standard - especially with tax payers money

i'm completely in 2 minds  :-/ :-/ :-/

I can quite understand what you are saying.  But when I was in the commercial world as a senior manager claiming expenses I knew what would be considered as "expenses in the line of duty and morally right", as opposed to being highly extravacant and even fraudulent!  This applied to the directors who would be audited as I was, with the knowledge that any abuse or fraudulent claim could result in a) dismissal b) police action. 8-) 8-) 8-)

Why have our MPs so clearly stepped outside the moral 'spirit' of their expense system, with clearly fraudulent action?  

[Banjax]

Disband the current party driven system --- each region votes in whomsoever they see fit for the job .. and that motley crew run the country with a PM whose "Party" is Great Britain !!!!  Proportionally represented coalition sort of thing !!!!

I apologise for my lack of eloquence  

aaah - you're a LibDem then Holy? Thats what they've been after for years  

[crazyjoetavola]

Disband the current party driven system --- each region votes in whomsoever they see fit for the job .. and that motley crew run the country with a PM whose "Party" is Great Britain !!!!  Proportionally represented coalition sort of thing !!!!

I apologise for my lack of eloquence  

Nay, fair Count - you are but from the Bard descended!

From personal experience however I would caution against the proportional representational/coalition option.  It has made a right balls of the system over here.  You need an administration with a clear majority to drive through sensible legislation.

[Banjax]

i'm in 2 minds over these expenses - on the one hand - they are a bunch of greedy, self serving hypocrites and on the other hand i think...well wait a second - if everything i bought for the house - food, tv, sofas, rugs, moats, chandeliers, etc - if i could legitimately claim them through my employer - i'd be an idiot not to.

hand on heart who could honestly say they wouldn't claim if it was the done thing and you were actually advised and encouraged by the fees office to do it?

and again - i can't see where cleaning a moat or polishing chandeliers is strictly necessary to represent your constituency in parliament - so maybe politicians should be held to a higher standard - especially with tax payers money

i'm completely in 2 minds  :-/ :-/ :-/

I can quite understand what you are saying.  But when I was in the commercial world as a senior manager claiming expenses I knew what would be considered as "expenses in the line of duty and morally right", as opposed to being highly extravacant and even fraudulent!  This applied to the directors who would be audited as I was, with the knowledge that any abuse or fraudulent claim could result in a) dismissal b) police action. 8-) 8-) 8-)

Why have our MPs so clearly stepped outside the moral 'spirit' of their expense system, with clearly fraudulent action?  

i think the main problem is that MP's feel they should be paid more for the job they do (who doesn't) and they use the expenses system as a way of topping up their salary - some of it i can understand - they do need to claim for a 2nd home if they live outside London - but some claims are, like you say, completely fraudulent - flipping between main homes and 2nd homes to milk the system, claiming mortgage payments back when the mortgage has been paid - some of these bandits should be slapped in jail - a lot of it tho is not fraudulent - just cheap and grubby

[HolyCount]

Disband the current party driven system --- each region votes in whomsoever they see fit for the job .. and that motley crew run the country with a PM whose "Party" is Great Britain !!!!  Proportionally represented coalition sort of thing !!!!

I apologise for my lack of eloquence  

aaah - you're a LibDem then Holy? Thats what they've been after for years  

Not really Bannjaxx. I just think that the government (of whatever colour) should be working for the country and not for the party. Time and time again the party in power have had a good idea (really!) which has been shot down by the opposition, purely because it was contrary to their party line , and vice versa.

Likewise there have been instances when my constituency have sent our representative to Westminster with our mandate on a particular matter and the whips have forced him to vote with the party line, literally against those he purports to represent  

[crazyjoetavola]

I think we're heading for a welcome sea-change in British politics, and this expenses furore has provided the right catalyst. This change will, I think, be signalled by a much higher vote for smaller parties and independents (UKIP, Libertarian, BNP, etc.) at the June elections.

There will be some who are attracted by the more extremist groups, but the main beneficiaries are likely to be UKIP.

The three major parties, with their patronage and whip system, need to recognise that, at the end of the day, each individual MP is sent to Westminster to represent his or her constituents...not to back the party-line, come what may.

That could well be the case Nick, but it could be a poison chalice for the new body politic.  The risk is that no party will be in a position to hold a working majority without the assistance of one or more of the smaller groups.  This can lead to confused government, which is as undesirable as corrupt or incompetent government.

True, but the upcoming elections won't affect Westminster per se. However, it should, with a bit of luck, prompt the major parties to rethink their policies in time for the General Election.

I sincerely hope so Nick :-/ :-/

[HolyCount]

Disband the current party driven system --- each region votes in whomsoever they see fit for the job .. and that motley crew run the country with a PM whose "Party" is Great Britain !!!!  Proportionally represented coalition sort of thing !!!!

I apologise for my lack of eloquence  

Nay, fair Count - you are but from the Bard descended!

From personal experience however I would caution against the proportional representational/coalition option.  It has made a right balls of the system over here.  You need an administration with a clear majority to drive through sensible legislation.

I will have to check -- but the Bard might be one of the few whose blood does not flow in my veins  

As for PR --- I can see your point Zulu --- however, this lot over here aren't doing so well either !!!!!!

[HolyCount]

I think we're heading for a welcome sea-change in British politics, and this expenses furore has provided the right catalyst. This change will, I think, be signalled by a much higher vote for smaller parties and independents (UKIP, Libertarian, BNP, etc.) at the June elections.

There will be some who are attracted by the more extremist groups, but the main beneficiaries are likely to be UKIP.

The three major parties, with their patronage and whip system, need to recognise that, at the end of the day, each individual MP is sent to Westminster to represent his or her constituents...not to back the party-line, come what may.

That could well be the case Nick, but it could be a poison chalice for the new body politic.  The risk is that no party will be in a position to hold a working majority without the assistance of one or more of the smaller groups.  This can lead to confused government, which is as undesirable as corrupt or incompetent government.

True, but the upcoming elections won't affect Westminster per se. However, it should, with a bit of luck, prompt the major parties to rethink their policies in time for the General Election.

It would greatly assist if they came back and visited our planet every now and again !!!!!