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[Nickbat]

Interesting article here. I'd never heard of neodymium before.  

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/hybrid-cars-minerals

[crazyjoetavola]

Interesting article here. I'd never heard of neodymium before.  

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/hybrid-cars-minerals

It is indeed interesting Nick.  Like everything taken from the earth to provide the means by which we derive energy, there will be an eventual environmental cost.  

Hybrid technology is a means by which the utter dependance on fossil fuels can be, in part, shifted.  Its an illustration of how, with a bit of thought and application, new sustainable and, above all, practical technology can be developed to solve the problems now being experienced.

Is is a pity that the 'green' label has been attached so prominently to the technology as it isn't perfect - but it's a start

Great posting by the way, always thought provoking

The Prius is still a great wee car irrespective of this

[TheBoy]

Interesting article here. I'd never heard of neodymium before.  

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/hybrid-cars-minerals

It is indeed interesting Nick.  Like everything taken from the earth to provide the means by which we derive energy, there will be an eventual environmental cost.  

Hybrid technology is a means by which the utter dependance on fossil fuels can be, in part, shifted.  Its an illustration of how, with a bit of thought and application, new sustainable and, above all, practical technology can be developed to solve the problems now being experienced.

Is is a pity that the 'green' label has been attached so prominently to the technology as it isn't perfect - but it's a start

Great posting by the way, always thought provoking

The Prius is still a great wee car irrespective of this

Its an awful drive!  On the upside, it does have a fairly low centre of gravity

Remember, the idea is flawed - it needs to burn fossil fuels to charge its batteries, admittedly with an efficient petrol engine.  OK, so it can also charge when slowing down, but thats not 'free' energy, as you have to stay on the power for longer (the charging system has the same effect as using the brakes)

[crazyjoetavola]

Interesting article here. I'd never heard of neodymium before.  

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/hybrid-cars-minerals

It is indeed interesting Nick.  Like everything taken from the earth to provide the means by which we derive energy, there will be an eventual environmental cost.  

Hybrid technology is a means by which the utter dependance on fossil fuels can be, in part, shifted.  Its an illustration of how, with a bit of thought and application, new sustainable and, above all, practical technology can be developed to solve the problems now being experienced.

Is is a pity that the 'green' label has been attached so prominently to the technology as it isn't perfect - but it's a start

Great posting by the way, always thought provoking

The Prius is still a great wee car irrespective of this

Its an awful drive!  On the upside, it does have a fairly low centre of gravity

Remember, the idea is flawed - it needs to burn fossil fuels to charge its batteries, admittedly with an efficient petrol engine.  OK, so it can also charge when slowing down, but thats not 'free' energy, as you have to stay on the power for longer (the charging system has the same effect as using the brakes)

Yep TB, it takes a different mind-set to drive and enjoy.  I came from using 3.2s generally driven in extremis, so it took me a while to revert from the class 1 mentality to a rather more reasonable state.

I have to say however that I've found the Prius more than civilised to live with - but then I might just be an old codger now

It is flawed as it's a compromise, but it's a tangible effort on the road to an alternative means of propulsion

[Marks DTM Calib]

THE only green thing about the Prius is its engine....it was designed to get optimum efficiency.

Trouble is that that made it un-deriveable so they had to bolt a hybrid unit on to make it useable in the real world!  

[crazyjoetavola]

THE only green thing about the Prius is its engine....it was designed to get optimum efficiency.

Trouble is that that made it un-deriveable so they had to bolt a hybrid unit on to make it useable in the real world!  

  very good

[Marks DTM Calib]

THE only green thing about the Prius is its engine....it was designed to get optimum efficiency.

Trouble is that that made it un-deriveable so they had to bolt a hybrid unit on to make it useable in the real world!  

  very good

Its reality.

The valve timing etc is set such that the power delivery is very peeky and not to user friendly.

[Omega man 2]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP-tyvBGla4&feature=related[/media]

[Matchless]

On a similar vein (no pun intended)

Put Sudbury, Canada (SAS / MAN border) into google earth and look at the surrounding moonscape.

Sudbury is the site of one of the main nickel smelters and the pollutants from the flue have killed off all vegetation for 100's of miles, you can even guess the direction of the prevailing winds from the pics.
I worked at the nickel mine in Flin Flon just south of Sudbury and it is almost desert going north towards the smelter.

Add the environmental impact of shipping the nickel to the UK for processing, then on to Japan for turning into batteries, then back to europe fitted into Prius cars etc and the 'Green' ticket looks somewhat kahki.

[crazyjoetavola]

On a similar vein (no pun intended)

Put Sudbury, Canada (SAS / MAN border) into google earth and look at the surrounding moonscape.

Sudbury is the site of one of the main nickel smelters and the pollutants from the flue have killed off all vegetation for 100's of miles, you can even guess the direction of the prevailing winds from the pics.
I worked at the nickel mine in Flin Flon just south of Sudbury and it is almost desert going north towards the smelter.

Add the environmental impact of shipping the nickel to the UK for processing, then on to Japan for turning into batteries, then back to europe fitted into Prius cars etc and the 'Green' ticket looks somewhat kahki.

You might want to look at this Matchless;

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-417227/Toyota-factory.html

There was, and still is, a lot of black propaganda surrounding this issue.  The point is that at least an alternative is being tried, it's a small step on the journey.  

This is why I said before that the 'green' label unfairly saddles the car with something that the Prius or any other low emission can't sustain, as the nature of the final product will always have an environmental impact.  It's still a reasonable effort however

[crazyjoetavola]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP-tyvBGla4&feature=related[/media]

  I might be that sensitive guy Ron 8-)  

[crazyjoetavola]

THE only green thing about the Prius is its engine....it was designed to get optimum efficiency.

Trouble is that that made it un-deriveable so they had to bolt a hybrid unit on to make it useable in the real world!  

  very good

Its reality.

The valve timing etc is set such that the power delivery is very peeky and not to user friendly.

That may be Mark but it's still not a bad wee drive.  You just have to adapt a different technique needed to get the best of it on the road - honest - STF

[HerefordElite]

On a similar vein (no pun intended)

Put Sudbury, Canada (SAS / MAN border) into google earth and look at the surrounding moonscape.

Sudbury is the site of one of the main nickel smelters and the pollutants from the flue have killed off all vegetation for 100's of miles, you can even guess the direction of the prevailing winds from the pics.
I worked at the nickel mine in Flin Flon just south of Sudbury and it is almost desert going north towards the smelter.

Add the environmental impact of shipping the nickel to the UK for processing, then on to Japan for turning into batteries, then back to europe fitted into Prius cars etc and the 'Green' ticket looks somewhat kahki.

You might want to look at this Matchless;

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-417227/Toyota-factory.html

There was, and still is, a lot of black propaganda surrounding this issue.  The point is that at least an alternative is being tried, it's a small step on the journey.  

This is why I said before that the 'green' label unfairly saddles the car with something that the Prius or any other low emission can't sustain, as the nature of the final product will always have an environmental impact.  It's still a reasonable effort however

reasonable efort it may be but nobody looks at the bigger picture, load of dogooding lip service.

have a look at the american  'dust to dust' survey to see what really constitutes a 'green' car

[Matchless]

On a similar vein (no pun intended)

Put Sudbury, Canada (SAS / MAN border) into google earth and look at the surrounding moonscape.

Sudbury is the site of one of the main nickel smelters and the pollutants from the flue have killed off all vegetation for 100's of miles, you can even guess the direction of the prevailing winds from the pics.
I worked at the nickel mine in Flin Flon just south of Sudbury and it is almost desert going north towards the smelter.

Add the environmental impact of shipping the nickel to the UK for processing, then on to Japan for turning into batteries, then back to europe fitted into Prius cars etc and the 'Green' ticket looks somewhat kahki.

You might want to look at this Matchless;

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-417227/Toyota-factory.html

There was, and still is, a lot of black propaganda surrounding this issue.  The point is that at least an alternative is being tried, it's a small step on the journey.  

This is why I said before that the 'green' label unfairly saddles the car with something that the Prius or any other low emission can't sustain, as the nature of the final product will always have an environmental impact.  It's still a reasonable effort however

The problem with the Sudbury plant was (and is) that the EPA labelled it as a gross polluter and required its closure or millions of dollars to be spent on cleaning it up. There is no other work in the area and several towns only exist because of the mines, nickel smelter and a tiny amount of gold. If the smelter closes the cost to the community os massive so they were granted exemption to the EPA directives.

I have seen the trees that were planted and are still being planted every year. They seem to reach about 6-7 ft high the die. Its a really wierd landscape. If you drive 2-3 hours west then there is thick woodland and forest, but drive east and there is nothing but dead trees and brown grass.

[Matchless]

I had a Prius driver come up to me in a car park recently and start ranting about how my 10yr old gas guzzler was destroying the planet.
If only he thought about the environmental cost of producing a new car he would see that older cars are actually 'greener', we need to get the maximum use out of them before making a fresh one.