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[webby23]

Its ok, thanks LSG, it just annoys me when people compare that terrible place to something nowhere near as horrific, and that isnt a political statement.

There is still the smell of death in and around Auschwitz, even now, 64 years on.

Auschwitz is simply incomparable so please dont put it next to the BNP, even allowing for their policies.

Stepping back from this now cos its getting too heavy

 

[crazyjoetavola]

Its ok, thanks LSG, it just annoys me when people compare that terrible place to something nowhere near as horrific, and that isnt a political statement.

There is still the smell of death in and around Auschwitz, even now, 64 years on.

Auschwitz is simply incomparable so please dont put it next to the BNP, even allowing for their policies.

Stepping back from this now cos its getting too heavy

 

.......you are quite correct in that assertion Webby, there can be no justifiable connection between the two, indeed the way certain terms have been used is in itself responsible for inflamed and misplaced passion.

That period of history was yet another indication of mankind at his/her worst and this unhappy fact should not be sullied by making this pointless comparison.

[theowletman]

I thought free speech was allowed in the UK, even if you are a racist P****. No one pelts the Muslim extremists with eggs when they are stood on the streets spouting racist bile??

Well said, racism is racism and can be any race or colour against any race or colour. It must be policed fairly with the same rules applied to all creeds and colours.

[Martin_1962]

Everyday Muslims are now driving out the extremists - notably in the town where the extremists hassled soldiers.

There are a lot of ethnic minority people in the services as well

[realboss7669]

What a thread! Its obvious this is a subject close to a lot of people's hearts!

My wife is from Jamaica so I do not stand for the BNP's policies at all, however I see this situation clearly highlights an 'issue' that exists in the UK right now.

The issue is that we are experiencing probably one of the biggest sociological changes that has ever taken place in the UK. We have many Brits moving abroad, and many foreign migrants coming to the UK. That is a fact I think everyone would agree on, regardless of opinions on whether they benefit the UK or not.

This obviously will cause those who have been born here to question this if the situation is not managed properly, and immigration is clearly not managed very well at all by our government who simply doesnt know how many foreign migrants are here.

Now, regardless of personal opinions, the fact is that huge pressure has been placed upon the UK's councils due to the increased population in terms of housing, welfare and education.

I will give you an example. I know of a family who came to the UK from overseas only a couple of years ago. Their daughter decided she wasnt happy with her parents rules, as they caught her smoking at home. No abuse took place, but she went to social services and has been fostered out. Her parents are understandably distraught and are fighting a legal battle for custody.

Now this aside, the interesting thing is that all of the legal costs for the case are being paid for via legal aid. This amounts to thousands. In addition the daughter, on top of all her food and accomodation being provided, is getting £5 a day 'pocket money'. This is paid for by tax payers. That is more money than my mother gets in her pension after working all her life.

The point here is that this family is not to blame for this, our government is.

Now some would say I am being unfair, but I grew up in Portugal where my parents moved when I was 7. They put me in Portuguese school, and got me Portuguese lessons. Instead of segregating ourselves and sticking with expats, we instead got stuck in with making Portuguese friends and living as the Portuguese. We were still English, and did our English things, but the point is that the government there did not try to pander to our Englishness. They didnt offer any free Portuguese lessons, none of the paperwork provided was available in English. Why? Simple, because we were in Portugal.

In my personal opinion our problem in England is that we do not foster a single British culture that other peoples can be grafted into. Instead our government promotes the idea of multiculturalism.

So what is the answer. Before we can understand what answers are out there, we need to understand the problem, and I don't think that the root problem is at all palatable. I think it comes down to what we want the England to be. I am not a liberal, so my views are pretty clear cut. I read a book that had a big impact on me. Its by Douglas Murray and is called 'Neo-Conservatism: Why We Need It'. I'm not saying I agree with all of it, but I think it highlights many unwelcome truths.

It's interesting, the truth is often unwelcome and unkind, and it is something that is painfully absent from much of our UK politics. I think the average joe bloggs on the steet knows what a lot of the issues are, but he doesnt get his voice heard. The people who seem to be heard most by our politicians are pressure groups who represent very small numbers of people. I think our politicians are totally out of touch with mr bloggs.

Right, I am going to shut up now, as this has become an essay!!!!!

 8-)

[Nickbat]

Interesting read, realboss.

It puts things into perspective. Much of what you read on this subject these days comes from people who have had no direct experience of mixing cultures. You have, and your views add significantly to the debate.

Thanks again.   

[Lizzie_Zoom]

ok.. I'm neither a UK citizen or an immigrant..

but I also want to tell my opinion..

looking from the point of view; personal rights,  its wrong that police dont do nothing about..

but,....

in times of problems, some political reactions go after the easy egg..

and its very easy to provocate masses with some promises of better life and showing the one "guilty" ..which is already done here (my country) with another tool "religion"..

And a sample 

"Nick Griffin, newly-minted MEP, was on Radio Five this morning claiming that the science of genetics legitimised his party's racist policies. Two thirds of people in Britain with British parents, he claims, can trace their "genetic ancestry" back to ice-age settlers in the geographical area of the UK"


I hope nobody "takes offense", Hitler was also elected within democracy..

Just imagine a scenario what will happen when they take 70-80% of the votes.. 

And I cant blame the people who show reaction.. :-/

Well done Cem for quoting that!!  This is exactly what millions fear from these right wing nationalist parties.  The BNP have just twoMEP's, but to stop their evil potential lets just remember how the 'aryan race' policy of the Nazi's developed on the idea of genetics; lets remember how Dr Mengele pursued this "dream" by looking at an extract of his and Nazi history:

Auschwitz  -

"The facility at Auschwitz was a gruesome kingdom of human misery, inundated with lice, vermin and fleas, the foulest sanitary conditions known to man, and rife with diseases such as typhus. Funded by a grant secured by Professor von Verschuer, it was here that Mengele was ordered to unlock the secrets of genetic engineering and devise methods to eradicate inferior genes from the human population to create Hitler's 'perfect race.' This 'scientific' premise for Mengele's work would ultimately contribute nothing of value to the understanding of human genetics, but it would add volumes to the annals of human suffering."

 
 

I thought this thread was finished......oh well!

Just to keep the record straight on my part Webby and Zulu, I ONLY mentioned  Auschwitz in my above post as it forms a connetion with Dr Megele who was based there. 

If you read my post fully I was making a response to Cem's quote of what Griffin had stated in a radio interview on genetics, which can be linked to what the evil doctor was investigated in the death camp.

At this stage I agree entirely that Auschwitz itself cannot and should not be linked with the BNP.  It is the genetics involved in the situation and BNP argument of "indigenous British" that IS the point of interest, and which HAS formed the basis of evil politics, not just in Germany either!!

That is me done on this thread.......until the next time!!

[crazyjoetavola]

ok.. I'm neither a UK citizen or an immigrant..

but I also want to tell my opinion..

looking from the point of view; personal rights,  its wrong that police dont do nothing about..

but,....

in times of problems, some political reactions go after the easy egg..

and its very easy to provocate masses with some promises of better life and showing the one "guilty" ..which is already done here (my country) with another tool "religion"..

And a sample 

"Nick Griffin, newly-minted MEP, was on Radio Five this morning claiming that the science of genetics legitimised his party's racist policies. Two thirds of people in Britain with British parents, he claims, can trace their "genetic ancestry" back to ice-age settlers in the geographical area of the UK"


I hope nobody "takes offense", Hitler was also elected within democracy..

Just imagine a scenario what will happen when they take 70-80% of the votes.. 

And I cant blame the people who show reaction.. :-/

Well done Cem for quoting that!!  This is exactly what millions fear from these right wing nationalist parties.  The BNP have just twoMEP's, but to stop their evil potential lets just remember how the 'aryan race' policy of the Nazi's developed on the idea of genetics; lets remember how Dr Mengele pursued this "dream" by looking at an extract of his and Nazi history:

Auschwitz  -

"The facility at Auschwitz was a gruesome kingdom of human misery, inundated with lice, vermin and fleas, the foulest sanitary conditions known to man, and rife with diseases such as typhus. Funded by a grant secured by Professor von Verschuer, it was here that Mengele was ordered to unlock the secrets of genetic engineering and devise methods to eradicate inferior genes from the human population to create Hitler's 'perfect race.' This 'scientific' premise for Mengele's work would ultimately contribute nothing of value to the understanding of human genetics, but it would add volumes to the annals of human suffering."

 
 

I thought this thread was finished......oh well!

Just to keep the record straight on my part Webby and Zulu, I ONLY mentioned  Auschwitz in my above post as it forms a connetion with Dr Megele who was based there. 

If you read I was making a response to Cem's quote of what Griffin had stated in a radio interview on genetics, which can be linked to what the evil doctor was investigated in the death camp.

At this stage I agree entirely that Auschwitz itself cannot and should not be linked with the BNP.  It is the genetics involved in the situation and BNP argument of "indigenous British" that IS the point of interest, and which HAS formed the basis of evil politics, not just in Germany either!!

That is me done on this thread.......until the next time!!

....I wasn't thinking of you when I was considering my remarks for that post Ms Zoom, my esteem for your ability and breadth of knowledge would have obliged my mentioning you name had I been so

On your final point - never say never

[Lizzie_Zoom]

ok.. I'm neither a UK citizen or an immigrant..

but I also want to tell my opinion..

looking from the point of view; personal rights,  its wrong that police dont do nothing about..

but,....

in times of problems, some political reactions go after the easy egg..

and its very easy to provocate masses with some promises of better life and showing the one "guilty" ..which is already done here (my country) with another tool "religion"..

And a sample 

"Nick Griffin, newly-minted MEP, was on Radio Five this morning claiming that the science of genetics legitimised his party's racist policies. Two thirds of people in Britain with British parents, he claims, can trace their "genetic ancestry" back to ice-age settlers in the geographical area of the UK"


I hope nobody "takes offense", Hitler was also elected within democracy..

Just imagine a scenario what will happen when they take 70-80% of the votes.. 

And I cant blame the people who show reaction.. :-/

Well done Cem for quoting that!!  This is exactly what millions fear from these right wing nationalist parties.  The BNP have just twoMEP's, but to stop their evil potential lets just remember how the 'aryan race' policy of the Nazi's developed on the idea of genetics; lets remember how Dr Mengele pursued this "dream" by looking at an extract of his and Nazi history:

Auschwitz  -

"The facility at Auschwitz was a gruesome kingdom of human misery, inundated with lice, vermin and fleas, the foulest sanitary conditions known to man, and rife with diseases such as typhus. Funded by a grant secured by Professor von Verschuer, it was here that Mengele was ordered to unlock the secrets of genetic engineering and devise methods to eradicate inferior genes from the human population to create Hitler's 'perfect race.' This 'scientific' premise for Mengele's work would ultimately contribute nothing of value to the understanding of human genetics, but it would add volumes to the annals of human suffering."

 
 

I thought this thread was finished......oh well!

Just to keep the record straight on my part Webby and Zulu, I ONLY mentioned  Auschwitz in my above post as it forms a connetion with Dr Megele who was based there. 

If you read I was making a response to Cem's quote of what Griffin had stated in a radio interview on genetics, which can be linked to what the evil doctor was investigated in the death camp.

At this stage I agree entirely that Auschwitz itself cannot and should not be linked with the BNP.  It is the genetics involved in the situation and BNP argument of "indigenous British" that IS the point of interest, and which HAS formed the basis of evil politics, not just in Germany either!!

That is me done on this thread.......until the next time!!

....I wasn't thinking of you when I was considering my remarks for that post Ms Zoom, my esteem for your ability and breadth of knowledge would have obliged my mentioning you name had I been so

On your final point - never say never

  And on that final point; how right you are Zulu, especially when it involves me.

[size=8]There you are I have already commented again on this thread; blast!! [/size]

[crazyjoetavola]

What a thread! Its obvious this is a subject close to a lot of people's hearts!

My wife is from Jamaica so I do not stand for the BNP's policies at all, however I see this situation clearly highlights an 'issue' that exists in the UK right now.

The issue is that we are experiencing probably one of the biggest sociological changes that has ever taken place in the UK. We have many Brits moving abroad, and many foreign migrants coming to the UK. That is a fact I think everyone would agree on, regardless of opinions on whether they benefit the UK or not.

This obviously will cause those who have been born here to question this if the situation is not managed properly, and immigration is clearly not managed very well at all by our government who simply doesnt know how many foreign migrants are here.

Now, regardless of personal opinions, the fact is that huge pressure has been placed upon the UK's councils due to the increased population in terms of housing, welfare and education.

I will give you an example. I know of a family who came to the UK from overseas only a couple of years ago. Their daughter decided she wasnt happy with her parents rules, as they caught her smoking at home. No abuse took place, but she went to social services and has been fostered out. Her parents are understandably distraught and are fighting a legal battle for custody.

Now this aside, the interesting thing is that all of the legal costs for the case are being paid for via legal aid. This amounts to thousands. In addition the daughter, on top of all her food and accomodation being provided, is getting £5 a day 'pocket money'. This is paid for by tax payers. That is more money than my mother gets in her pension after working all her life.

The point here is that this family is not to blame for this, our government is.

Now some would say I am being unfair, but I grew up in Portugal where my parents moved when I was 7. They put me in Portuguese school, and got me Portuguese lessons. Instead of segregating ourselves and sticking with expats, we instead got stuck in with making Portuguese friends and living as the Portuguese. We were still English, and did our English things, but the point is that the government there did not try to pander to our Englishness. They didnt offer any free Portuguese lessons, none of the paperwork provided was available in English. Why? Simple, because we were in Portugal.

In my personal opinion our problem in England is that we do not foster a single British culture that other peoples can be grafted into. Instead our government promotes the idea of multiculturalism.

So what is the answer. Before we can understand what answers are out there, we need to understand the problem, and I don't think that the root problem is at all palatable. I think it comes down to what we want the England to be. I am not a liberal, so my views are pretty clear cut. I read a book that had a big impact on me. Its by Douglas Murray and is called 'Neo-Conservatism: Why We Need It'. I'm not saying I agree with all of it, but I think it highlights many unwelcome truths.

It's interesting, the truth is often unwelcome and unkind, and it is something that is painfully absent from much of our UK politics. I think the average joe bloggs on the steet knows what a lot of the issues are, but he doesnt get his voice heard. The people who seem to be heard most by our politicians are pressure groups who represent very small numbers of people. I think our politicians are totally out of touch with mr bloggs.

Right, I am going to shut up now, as this has become an essay!!!!!

 8-)

experiencing probably one of the biggest sociological changes that has ever taken place in the UK and immigration is clearly not managed very well at all by our government

....and this change RB is here to stay and thanks to this inept administration and the sinister manipulations of the EU, this problem will swell to unmanageable proportions.

pressure has been placed upon the UK's councils


.......thanks to those very policies mentioned above.

segregating ourselves and sticking with expats, we instead got stuck in with making Portuguese friends and living as the Portuguese


......as anyone who has a desire to learn and make the very best of their new-found position would.


Instead our government promotes the idea of multiculturalism.

....it seems laudable, however it's the easy way out, taken to it's logical conclusion individual fiefdoms would spring up all over the country each having their own and very different view of just what, or to whom,  their allegiance would be given.



'Neo-Conservatism: Why We Need It'

....I'll reserve judgement on that until I read it.  Any publication with ‘Neo’ encapsulated in its text must be considered carefully


The people who seem to be heard most by our politicians are pressure groups who represent very small numbers of people. I think our politicians are totally out of touch with mr bloggs.

....and so welcome to modern Britain, a land destroyed by inept, corrupt and pandering government - led by the nose, so effectively, by the leviathan that is the EU.

A well reasoned post RB will look forward to some more of your thoughts.

[crazyjoetavola]

ok.. I'm neither a UK citizen or an immigrant..

but I also want to tell my opinion..

looking from the point of view; personal rights,  its wrong that police dont do nothing about..

but,....

in times of problems, some political reactions go after the easy egg..

and its very easy to provocate masses with some promises of better life and showing the one "guilty" ..which is already done here (my country) with another tool "religion"..

And a sample 

"Nick Griffin, newly-minted MEP, was on Radio Five this morning claiming that the science of genetics legitimised his party's racist policies. Two thirds of people in Britain with British parents, he claims, can trace their "genetic ancestry" back to ice-age settlers in the geographical area of the UK"


I hope nobody "takes offense", Hitler was also elected within democracy..

Just imagine a scenario what will happen when they take 70-80% of the votes.. 

And I cant blame the people who show reaction.. :-/

Well done Cem for quoting that!!  This is exactly what millions fear from these right wing nationalist parties.  The BNP have just twoMEP's, but to stop their evil potential lets just remember how the 'aryan race' policy of the Nazi's developed on the idea of genetics; lets remember how Dr Mengele pursued this "dream" by looking at an extract of his and Nazi history:

Auschwitz  -

"The facility at Auschwitz was a gruesome kingdom of human misery, inundated with lice, vermin and fleas, the foulest sanitary conditions known to man, and rife with diseases such as typhus. Funded by a grant secured by Professor von Verschuer, it was here that Mengele was ordered to unlock the secrets of genetic engineering and devise methods to eradicate inferior genes from the human population to create Hitler's 'perfect race.' This 'scientific' premise for Mengele's work would ultimately contribute nothing of value to the understanding of human genetics, but it would add volumes to the annals of human suffering."

 
 

I thought this thread was finished......oh well!

Just to keep the record straight on my part Webby and Zulu, I ONLY mentioned  Auschwitz in my above post as it forms a connetion with Dr Megele who was based there. 

If you read I was making a response to Cem's quote of what Griffin had stated in a radio interview on genetics, which can be linked to what the evil doctor was investigated in the death camp.

At this stage I agree entirely that Auschwitz itself cannot and should not be linked with the BNP.  It is the genetics involved in the situation and BNP argument of "indigenous British" that IS the point of interest, and which HAS formed the basis of evil politics, not just in Germany either!!

That is me done on this thread.......until the next time!!

....I wasn't thinking of you when I was considering my remarks for that post Ms Zoom, my esteem for your ability and breadth of knowledge would have obliged my mentioning you name had I been so

On your final point - never say never

  And on that final point; how right you are Zulu, especially when it involves me.

[size=8]There you are I have already commented again on this thread; blast!! [/size]

........he he he he he he he he

[Gareth Lewis]

I have just read the whole of this thread (I know I need a life ) and I am delighted to read the wide ranging themes and discussions by members of this forum many of whom obviously do not agree with each other.

But isn't that exactly what this country is all about? The ability to discuss, argue and analyse without fear of retribution or recrimination?

Personally I would never vote for the BNP (my reasons are not important) but I would never stop any other person in this country from voting for them either. That their entry is even on the voting form speaks volumes in itself.

What I am annoyed at is not the BNP (or the people who voted for them) but the other parties on the voting form who did not listen to the electorate and go off on their own crusades ignoring what really concerns people and adapting their policies to give the electorate an outlet to express their views without having to turn to the BNP.

The other area that really annoyed me was the 60%+ who are now complaining about the results and sat on their fat arses and didn't bother to vote.

In the North West if 2,900 more people had voted for UKIP or 5,000 more voted for The Green Party the BNP would not have got in.

So who is to blame for the seats the BNP got?

BNP? No - they have a right to stand
BNP voters? No - they have a right to vote for whoever they want

Non-voters that is who!

[Lizzie_Zoom]

 

[crazyjoetavola]

....you're being very restrained Ms Zoom - very impressive

[cem_devecioglu]

zombie thread