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[splott]

I don't have any fancy argument about deterrent effect or punishment or justice or debt to society.

I just don't want anyone taking anyone else's life in my name, and that's exactly what capital punishment is.

We've grown out of it, I'm glad to say, let's not take a giant step backwards.

Absolutely. Hopelessly inedequate though the current justice system may be, we don't need capital punishment, IMHO. We need life sentences that mean life, prisons that aren't holiday camps and the recognition that the prisoners therein are there to be punished by having their rights removed not to be "rehabilitated" and pandered to.

Kevin

Hey the victtims  don't have a choice, their gone! Just get rid of the virmin and save on taxes.

[hotel21]

Capital punishment is always going to be frought with difficulty and danger as regards its legal descisions and, ultimately, its mistakes.

Despite the evidential advances with the likes of DNA profiling and similar, the whole system remains, potentially, flawed by its over reliance on civil libertarians and an over abundance of persons in positions of critical descision making who are still intent on a life peerage or similar, rather than grab a bull by the horns.

Personally, I have no problems with the eye for an eye analogy but it remains a one shot deal.  If its wrong, its too late to get the pads out and have everyone close by 'to stand clear - charging' as per Casualty each week....

[Broomies Mate]

I don't have any fancy argument about deterrent effect or punishment or justice or debt to society.

I just don't want anyone taking anyone else's life in my name, and that's exactly what capital punishment is.

We've grown out of it, I'm glad to say, let's not take a giant step backwards.

Absolutely. Hopelessly inedequate though the current justice system may be, we don't need capital punishment, IMHO. We need life sentences that mean life, prisons that aren't holiday camps and the recognition that the prisoners therein are there to be punished by having their rights removed not to be "rehabilitated" and pandered to.

Kevin

Hey the victtims  don't have a choice, their gone! Just get rid of the virmin and save on taxes.

I believe, but could be wrong, that the US States which still give the Death Penalty show that the cost of putting someone to sleep exceeds the cost of keeping them incarcerated for life (and that does mean life).

[splott]

Capital punishment is always going to be frought with difficulty and danger as regards its legal descisions and, ultimately, its mistakes.

Despite the evidential advances with the likes of DNA profiling and similar, the whole system remains, potentially, flawed by its over reliance on civil libertarians and an over abundance of persons in positions of critical descision making who are still intent on a life peerage or similar, rather than grab a bull by the horns.

Personally, I have no problems with the eye for an eye analogy but it remains a one shot deal.  If its wrong, its too late to get the pads out and have everyone close by 'to stand clear - charging' as per Casualty each week....

Let them rot for a few years as they do in the states, that is the the time to prove their innocence. If they can't prove and witness support dosen't happen then put them down!

[Nickbat]

Perhaps murderers could be sent out to test Taliban resistance on the front line in Afghanistan.

Just a thought. 

[Dishevelled Den]

[quote
 author=73706C6F7474000 link=1262379896/24#24
 date=1262385473]

I'm afraid that capital punishment by way of judicial ruling doesn’t solve much

There is little deterrent effect to those who kill in the heat of the moment as they will generally will do so whether there is a lawful deterrent in force or not. These crimes are usually committed whilst the offender is entirely focussed on committing the act and not rationalising what the consequences of that act might be.

Those who choose to kill in a premeditated fashion will, in the majority of cases, do so whether or not there are sanctions in place as they have, for the most part, considered the possible punishment during their premeditations and work on the premise that they will not be apprehended.


The only thing that capital punishment provides for in my view – following due judicial process – is a state of ‘closure’ for the relatives of the victims.  To suggest that it would also save the state the expense of imprisonment for the offender would perhaps be crass.

The notion that if one person takes the life of another, with the intention of purposefully ending that persons life, that offender should lose their right to life, is another question entirely and one that perhaps provides traction to the desire for some to have, rightly or wrongly, ‘an eye for an eye’ 

The eye for an eye I agree with and closure for the family I agree with. So in that case justice is, get these scum bags of this planet, put them down like you would a rabid dog!!

The irrefutable evidence alluded to by the OP (ST) will always provide the stumbling block for those charged with applying capital punishment as not all persons accused and subsequently convicted of capital crimes are indeed guilty.  Miscarriages of justice have been made and will continue to be made.

Whether or not convicted persons are lawfully killed by the state judicial process is moot as that process will, by in large, fail to provide a deterrent to the crime thus allowing such crimes to be committed on a continuing basis.

Sorry but that is the usual minorty tosh that is banded about, the majoriy want capital punishment brought back. But minority rules!!!Sad that the majority don't  speak up!! Its not PC is it???
[/quote]


minorty tosh

Forgive me Splott, but having dealt with countless matters during my long service where people were the victims of murder, premeditated or not, I feel that my argument merits slightly more than to be considered tosh


the majority want capital punishment brought back

Is that the majority here on the OOF or a majority in the country as a whole and should it be, can you provide a basis for that assertion.  If it were to be reinstated at the behest of the 'majority' would it be any the more a deterrent to such capital crimes?

Furthermore I can assure you that I'm far from 'PC'

[Dishevelled Den]

I don't have any fancy argument about deterrent effect or punishment or justice or debt to society.

I just don't want anyone taking anyone else's life in my name, and that's exactly what capital punishment is.

We've grown out of it, I'm glad to say, let's not take a giant step backwards.

Absolutely. Hopelessly inedequate though the current justice system may be, we don't need capital punishment, IMHO. We need life sentences that mean life, prisons that aren't holiday camps and the recognition that the prisoners therein are there to be punished by having their rights removed not to be "rehabilitated" and pandered to.

Kevin

I can agree with that K - well reasoned

[Dishevelled Den]

Capital punishment is always going to be frought with difficulty and danger as regards its legal descisions and, ultimately, its mistakes.

Despite the evidential advances with the likes of DNA profiling and similar, the whole system remains, potentially, flawed by its over reliance on civil libertarians and an over abundance of persons in positions of critical descision making who are still intent on a life peerage or similar, rather than grab a bull by the horns.

Personally, I have no problems with the eye for an eye analogy but it remains a one shot deal.  If its wrong, its too late to get the pads out and have everyone close by 'to stand clear - charging' as per Casualty each week....

...and many of us found that to be the deal breaker H

[splott]

I don't have any fancy argument about deterrent effect or punishment or justice or debt to society.

I just don't want anyone taking anyone else's life in my name, and that's exactly what capital punishment is.

We've grown out of it, I'm glad to say, let's not take a giant step backwards.

Absolutely. Hopelessly inedequate though the current justice system may be, we don't need capital punishment, IMHO. We need life sentences that mean life, prisons that aren't holiday camps and the recognition that the prisoners therein are there to be punished by having their rights removed not to be "rehabilitated" and pandered to.

Kevin

Hey the victtims  don't have a choice, their gone! Just get rid of the virmin and save on taxes.

I believe, but could be wrong, that the US States which still give the Death Penalty show that the cost of putting someone to sleep exceeds the cost of keeping them incarcerated for life (and that does mean life).

What about the peodo's and the rapists, they put their victims trough a living hell. If proven then put them down.

[hotel21]

I don't have any fancy argument about deterrent effect or punishment or justice or debt to society.

I just don't want anyone taking anyone else's life in my name, and that's exactly what capital punishment is.

We've grown out of it, I'm glad to say, let's not take a giant step backwards.

Absolutely. Hopelessly inedequate though the current justice system may be, we don't need capital punishment, IMHO. We need life sentences that mean life, prisons that aren't holiday camps and the recognition that the prisoners therein are there to be punished by having their rights removed not to be "rehabilitated" and pandered to.

Kevin

Hey the victtims  don't have a choice, their gone! Just get rid of the virmin and save on taxes.

I believe, but could be wrong, that the US States which still give the Death Penalty show that the cost of putting someone to sleep exceeds the cost of keeping them incarcerated for life (and that does mean life).

What about the peodo's and the rapists, they put their victims trough a living hell. If proven then put them down.

What about the multiple murderes?  That are only now being found out?

If they were dead and buried after the first one then the numerous other unfortunate cases now surfacing would, sadly, be swept into oblivion as there was no 'trial' to apportion blame....

Think Peter Tobin and  Robert Black.....

[splott]

I don't have any fancy argument about deterrent effect or punishment or justice or debt to society.

I just don't want anyone taking anyone else's life in my name, and that's exactly what capital punishment is.

We've grown out of it, I'm glad to say, let's not take a giant step backwards.

Absolutely. Hopelessly inedequate though the current justice system may be, we don't need capital punishment, IMHO. We need life sentences that mean life, prisons that aren't holiday camps and the recognition that the prisoners therein are there to be punished by having their rights removed not to be "rehabilitated" and pandered to.

Kevin

Hey the victtims  don't have a choice, their gone! Just get rid of the virmin and save on taxes.

I believe, but could be wrong, that the US States which still give the Death Penalty show that the cost of putting someone to sleep exceeds the cost of keeping them incarcerated for life (and that does mean life).

What about the peodo's and the rapists, they put their victims trough a living hell. If proven then put them down.

[Pete Elite]

The laws are made and administered by people who are not ever likely to encounter the crimes that they make and administer these laws for so why should they care!!!
 Maybe if a few Peers, Judges, MPs, Royalty or their family members and the like were to be killed in a drive by shooting, raped and murdered, mugged/beaten for their pension monies etc. etc., then maybe they would begin to think like the average man/women in the street does, but what is the likelihood of that ever happening???

 I myself believe that what we have now obviously doesn't work so.........................?

[Chris_H]

Whilst I am convinced that it is wrong for individuals to kill each other, I'm not sure the same applies to the State.  However, our current inability to determine right from wrong and convict people reliably leads me to oppose re-introduction of capital punishment.

[Chris_H]

The laws are made and administered by people who are not ever likely to encounter the crimes that they make and administer these laws for so why should they care!!!
 Maybe if a few Peers, Judges, MPs, Royalty or their family members and the like were to be killed in a drive by shooting, raped and murdered, mugged/beaten for their pension monies etc. etc., then maybe they would begin to think like the average man/women in the street does, but what is the likelihood of that ever happening???

 I myself believe that what we have now obviously doesn't work so.........................?

People who have experienced crime first-hand are often the worst ones to decide on just punishments.  Penalties need to be arrived at by level-headed groups of people who are un-tainted by personal emotions like that.

[hotel21]

The laws are made and administered by people who are not ever likely to encounter the crimes that they make and administer these laws for so why should they care!!!
 Maybe if a few Peers, Judges, MPs, Royalty or their family members and the like were to be killed in a drive by shooting, raped and murdered, mugged/beaten for their pension monies etc. etc., then maybe they would begin to think like the average man/women in the street does, but what is the likelihood of that ever happening???

 I myself believe that what we have now obviously doesn't work so.........................?

People who have experienced crime first-hand are often the worst ones to decide on just punishments.  Penalties need to be arrived at by level-headed groups of people who are un-tainted by personal emotions like that.

You mean completely remote from and unfamiliar with reality?





Like 99.9% of the general public?