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Author Topic: Climate change,You must be joking!  (Read 47861 times)

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Dishevelled Den

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #450 on: 03 February 2010, 11:01:56 »

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Quote
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Further evidence comes to light this morning with regard to the deliberate hiding of data by a coupe of the scientists right at the heart of the global warming scandal.

OK, you may think that a bit "old hat". But what IS interesting is that this piece of investigative journalism comes from The Guardian! :o :o

What is even more interesting is that the journos at The Guardian tipped off the most popular sceptic WUWT website before they published the story.

Wow. The AGW bandwagon seems to be having a slow-motion crash.

Most enjoyable to watch.  ;)

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/02/01/climategate-intensifies-jones-and-wang-hid-chinese-station-data-issues/ 


Perhaps the AGW protagonists are becoming concerned that the positive publicity they’ve enjoyed and capitalised on for so long has been turned and used to cause a dent in their case.

The by-line in that Guardian article leads us to that gold-plated environmentalist Pierce who seems to recognises the import of this counter argument, as he ends a piece with this paragraph;


I have been speaking to a PR operator for one of the world’s leading environmental organizations. Most unusually, he didn’t want to be quoted. But his message is clear. The facts of the e-mails barely matter any more. It has always been hard to persuade the public that invisible gases could somehow warm the planet, and that they had to make sacrifices to prevent that from happening. It seemed, on the verge of Copenhagen, as if that might be about to be achieved

But he says all that ended on Nov. 20. “The e-mails represented a seminal moment in the climate debate of the last five years, and it was a moment that broke decisively against us. I think the CRU leak is nothing less than catastrophic

Read more at;

http://e360.yale.edu/content/feature.msp?id=2221


Good link, Zulu.

Fred Pierce seems to have suffered a complete Damascene conversion at that point!  ;) ;D

This is from tomorrow's Grauniad:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/02/hacked-climate-emails-flaws-peer-review

 :o :o

It seems that those who support the AGW theory are going out of their way to add credibility to the message by appearing to address these anomalies found in the research up to the moment.

Far from being made in the pursuit of having good scientific data to back the theory, I suspect the hand of political manipulation here and as far as I can see, that hand is being guided by the Climate Secretary Ed Milliband.

It's gratifying that Mr Milliband is able to keep an open mind on the potential requirement for radical change based on such controversial science.


The perceived failure of global talks in Copenhagen last month on combating climate change has also been blamed for undermining public support. Yet, in the government's first high-level recognition of the growing pressure on public opinion, Milliband declared a "battle" against the "siren voices" who denied global warming was real or caused by humans, or that there was a need to cut carbon emissions to tackle it


To make the following more palatable no doubt;


[size=14]The danger of climate scepticism was that it would undermine public support for unpopular decisions needed to curb carbon emissions, including the likelihood of  higher energy bills for households, and issues such as the visual impact of wind turbines, said Milliband, who is also energy secretary[/size]

Read more here at;

http://freeinternetpress.com/story.php?sid=24375

This rush to create policy to deal with the effects - on human wellbeing -  of a warming climate based on the science used by the IPCC, has done nothing but confuse the issue, and will divert billions of dollars into schemes that will do little to address the undoubted effects of this eventual warming.

 It certainly will, however, swell the coffers of those who have already jumped onto the bandwagon, seeing this as an opportunity to amass money – and power - on a hitherto impossible scale.
« Last Edit: 03 February 2010, 11:07:12 by Zulu77 »
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STMO999

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #451 on: 04 February 2010, 11:19:03 »

Still here. ;D
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Chris_H

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #452 on: 04 February 2010, 13:59:20 »

Quote
Still here. ;D
I don't think anyone suggested you'd die immediately!!!!
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waspy

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #453 on: 04 February 2010, 14:07:40 »

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Quote
Still here. ;D
I don't think anyone suggested you'd die immediately!!!!

We can live in hope ;D
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Nickbat

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #454 on: 04 February 2010, 14:54:48 »

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Nickbat

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #455 on: 04 February 2010, 15:15:32 »

Read elsewhere...

...a comment about solar panels from a Canadian poster on a blog.

"Kinda on topic, but I was at a seminar yesterday for venture forums - topic was renewable energy firms. A distinguished professor from the local university (specialty semi conductor materials), asks question of German dude who just presented some info on his solar panel company. 'My calculations have always shown that the energy to manufacture a solar panel is greater than the expected total output from the finished panel up to their predicted mean time to fail. Has new technology changed this fact?' Answer from German dude. 'The Ontario government pays between 70 - 80 cents per KWhr for power from solar installations supplying the grid. The current rate for all power is 12 cents. This is what matters.'

So, is he saying that the government subsidy is what makes these things viable...but they're not actually viable as it takes more energy to produce them than they will ever generate?

If true, it's astonishing.  :o
« Last Edit: 04 February 2010, 15:16:49 by Nickbat »
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Chris_H

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #456 on: 04 February 2010, 16:59:19 »

Quote
Read elsewhere...

...a comment about solar panels from a Canadian poster on a blog.

"Kinda on topic, but I was at a seminar yesterday for venture forums - topic was renewable energy firms. A distinguished professor from the local university (specialty semi conductor materials), asks question of German dude who just presented some info on his solar panel company. 'My calculations have always shown that the energy to manufacture a solar panel is greater than the expected total output from the finished panel up to their predicted mean time to fail. Has new technology changed this fact?' Answer from German dude. 'The Ontario government pays between 70 - 80 cents per KWhr for power from solar installations supplying the grid. The current rate for all power is 12 cents. This is what matters.'

So, is he saying that the government subsidy is what makes these things viable...but they're not actually viable as it takes more energy to produce them than they will ever generate?

If true, it's astonishing.  :o
Not in business terms it's not.  There are all sorts of viewpoints involved in this debate, some deliberate, some inadvertent.  If governments give out money to try and skew some fact of life they want to affect then it is hardly surprising if entrepreneurs jump on board.  Their agenda is by no means guaranteed to match that of the government.
« Last Edit: 04 February 2010, 16:59:45 by ChrisH174 »
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alfie

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #457 on: 04 February 2010, 17:49:04 »

If you can,t blind them with science.
Baffle them with bullshit.as my old manager used to say.
      Alfie.
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STMO999

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #458 on: 04 February 2010, 20:51:58 »

Oi! Churchill!
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Entwood

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #459 on: 04 February 2010, 23:43:42 »

You want Insurance now ???   :)
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Vamps

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #460 on: 04 February 2010, 23:46:58 »

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You want Insurance now ???   :)

Against global warming..... :D :D :D
I usually ignore this thread, just thought I would take a quick look... ::) ::)
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Entwood

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Dishevelled Den

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #462 on: 05 February 2010, 00:15:43 »

Quote
Quote
Read elsewhere...

...a comment about solar panels from a Canadian poster on a blog.

"Kinda on topic, but I was at a seminar yesterday for venture forums - topic was renewable energy firms. A distinguished professor from the local university (specialty semi conductor materials), asks question of German dude who just presented some info on his solar panel company. 'My calculations have always shown that the energy to manufacture a solar panel is greater than the expected total output from the finished panel up to their predicted mean time to fail. Has new technology changed this fact?' Answer from German dude. 'The Ontario government pays between 70 - 80 cents per KWhr for power from solar installations supplying the grid. The current rate for all power is 12 cents. This is what matters.'

So, is he saying that the government subsidy is what makes these things viable...but they're not actually viable as it takes more energy to produce them than they will ever generate?

If true, it's astonishing.  :o
Not in business terms it's not.  There are all sorts of viewpoints involved in this debate, some deliberate, some inadvertent.  If governments give out money to try and skew some fact of life they want to affect then it is hardly surprising if entrepreneurs jump on board.  Their agenda is by no means guaranteed to match that of the government.


Quote
hardly surprising if entrepreneurs jump on board


Exactly Chris and because of this these pimps, avariciously eyeing up the policies, now prostituted, that should have been formulated to sensibly address the effects of our changing climate - not anthropogenic in nature - will be allowed to prosper in their lust for the accumulation of money above everything else.

All aided and abetted by an incompetent and wilful government, bankrupt in ideas, bankrupt in morality and bankrupt in fact.
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Brick Tamland

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #463 on: 05 February 2010, 00:26:48 »

Rats and sinkng ships?  ::) ::)

Pachauri's own government is now heading to the lifeboats ;D ;D

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7157590/India-to-pull-out-of-IPCC.html
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Dishevelled Den

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #464 on: 05 February 2010, 00:34:22 »

There also seems to be a bit of a backlash to carbon trading proposals down under;


Obama retreat is your cue, Rudd told


With the climate change debate now hopelessly deadlocked in the Australian Parliament, the Coalition took heart yesterday from US reports that Mr Obama might abandon his cap-and-trade scheme because of an obstinate Senate


Read more;

http://www.smh.com.au/national/obama-retreat-is-your-cue-rudd-told-20100204-ngb0.html
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