Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I think the ONLY questions that have not really been asked/answered are:

1) were they really only delivering food/aid, if so, an independant observer from the UN can verify all this, if this is genuinely the case, then Israel KNEW any attempt at boarding may be met with limited resistance, and surely boarding with commandoes armed to the teeth was a bad idea, just sending an independant observer FIRST was the way to go??
2) This was heavily publicised, witha lot of Turkish nationals on board. Any sane person from Israel would see that the action taken would bring almost complete condemnation from the outside world, but they went ahead anyway.
3) If, as reported, the flotilla of ships had been notified earlier on, and seen it all coming via radar, and they had nothing to hide, they would have heaved to, and allowed themselves to be boarded easily, after all, they were in INTERNATIONAL waters, and doing nothing wrong.....
4) No-body had to be killed, just "arrested", WHY??
5) Afterwards, why did Israel just take all the ships to its own port and intern all crew and passengers? surely they cannot do that if the ships are in INTERNATIONAL waters, otherwise it is counted as PIRACY???
6) What gives Israel the right to  stop any person giving humanitarian aid to a "supposed" blockaded part of the country anyway? are there not laws preventing this signed by all in a treaty? (Human rights act 1974)

No sides taken here, as a bit confused, but cannot see the events are justified in any way, and if they have legally done this, surely they should have informed the UN or somebody in the world similar of their intentions, and "legalized" themselves somewhat? :-/

It was clearly stated yesterday SS that the cargo's were fully checked by independant inspectors whilst in a Turkish port.  However of course none of us can really confirm that, but it was stated that even concrete to be used for the rebuilding of Gaza would be objected to by Israel!

[Sixstring]

Mmm. appears this will be a big arguing point in the UN, unless documentation can be produced verifying this, everybody (including me) must come to the conclution Israel is just trying to "starve out" palestinians by denying them food, and everyday items so they will leave the Gaza strip..........However, SANE and INTELLIGENT people must look into this closely, because America will be very careful to make sure its supply chains of arms to Israel are not compromised too, and will not want to" rock the boat" very hard and upset anybody.

[eliteomegaman]

Could the following shed any light on this topic? -

Hamas control (2007–present) -

Hamas take-over of the Strip

In June 2007, the Palestinian Civil War between Hamas (Islamic Resistance Movement) and Fatah (Palestine Liberation Movement) intensified. Hamas routed Fatah after winning the democratic election, and by the 14th of June, controlled the Gaza Strip. Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas responded by declaring a state of emergency, dissolving the unity government and forming a new government without Hamas participation. PNA security forces in the West Bank arrested a number of Hamas members.

Abbas's government received widespread international support. In late June 2008 Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia said that the West Bank-based Cabinet formed by Abbas was the sole legitimate Palestinian government, and Egypt moved its embassy from Gaza to the West Bank.[46] The Hamas government in the Gaza Strip faces international, diplomatic, and economic isolation.However, both Saudi Arabia and Egypt supported reconciliation and the forming of a new unity government, and pressed Abbas to start serious talks with Hamas. Abbas had always conditioned this on Hamas returning control of the Gaza Strip to the Palestinian Authority. Hamas has been invited to and has visited a number of countries, including Russia, and in the EU countries, opposition parties and politicians called for a dialogue with Hamas and an end to the economic sanctions.

After the takeover, Israel and Egypt closed its border crossings with Gaza. Palestinian sources reported that European Union monitors fled the Rafah Border Crossing, on the Gaza-Israel border for fear of being kidnapped or harmed.[47] Arab foreign ministers and Palestinian officials presented a united front against control of the border by Hamas.[48]

Meanwhile, Israeli and Egyptian security reports said that Hamas continued smuggling in large quantities of explosives and arms from Egypt through tunnels. Egyptian security forces uncovered 60 tunnels in 2007.[49]

[Lizzie_Zoom]

If armed Israeli commandos descended on me in the middle of the night, I'm not sure my first instinct would be to put the kettle on and invite them in...what with their usual "shoot first....deny all knowledge later" policy. So yes, they were attacked.....interesting that this flotilla of mercenaries, smugglers and terrorists didn't see fit to bring any guns along - maybe, just maybe they were delivering aid to Gaza? 

Why does everyone not see that??

Do me a bloody favour & read my posts 

They KNEW the marines were coming as they had prior warnings for OVER A WEEK AGO

Also ships nowadays have radar! The IDF boarded the ships to take them to the port NOT to kill them 

Don't worry always do!!

So warnings, and it follows as every humantarian aid ship to Gaza has been illegally intercepted by Israel to date, make the action in international water ok then?

On that basis the Somali pirates are in the right when they attack international ships as the Captains have fair warning it is going to happen??!

Don't think so!

[Banjax]

If armed Israeli commandos descended on me in the middle of the night, I'm not sure my first instinct would be to put the kettle on and invite them in...what with their usual "shoot first....deny all knowledge later" policy. So yes, they were attacked.....interesting that this flotilla of mercenaries, smugglers and terrorists didn't see fit to bring any guns along - maybe, just maybe they were delivering aid to Gaza? 

Why does everyone not see that??

Israel have a well oiled media spin machine that quickly suppresses all but their own version of events I suppose Liz  :-/
This is Israel attacking a European sovereign state in international waters....it doesn't matter if the flag the ship carried was a Union Jack or a Crescent Moon and Star (sorry Cem - I don't know the name of the Turkish flag) - surely we can't allow this atrocity to be swept under the carpet? 

It is hoped that enough of the international community will put pressure on that to stop this from happening, but the signs are not good with the USA already seemingly taking a pro-Israel stance

Well, at least it's a balance to your anti-Israel stance.

funnily enough, Turkey officially were pro-Israel....well until around 4am yesterday morning anyway 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

If armed Israeli commandos descended on me in the middle of the night, I'm not sure my first instinct would be to put the kettle on and invite them in...what with their usual "shoot first....deny all knowledge later" policy. So yes, they were attacked.....interesting that this flotilla of mercenaries, smugglers and terrorists didn't see fit to bring any guns along - maybe, just maybe they were delivering aid to Gaza? 

Why does everyone not see that??

Israel have a well oiled media spin machine that quickly suppresses all but their own version of events I suppose Liz  :-/
This is Israel attacking a European sovereign state in international waters....it doesn't matter if the flag the ship carried was a Union Jack or a Crescent Moon and Star (sorry Cem - I don't know the name of the Turkish flag) - surely we can't allow this atrocity to be swept under the carpet? 

It is hoped that enough of the international community will put pressure on that to stop this from happening, but the signs are not good with the USA already seemingly taking a pro-Israel stance

Well, at least it's a balance to your anti-Israel stance.

funnily enough, Turkey officially were pro-Israel....well until around 4am yesterday morning anyway 

Well said BJ as Israel are even losing the friends they had

[eliteomegaman]

If armed Israeli commandos descended on me in the middle of the night, I'm not sure my first instinct would be to put the kettle on and invite them in...what with their usual "shoot first....deny all knowledge later" policy. So yes, they were attacked.....interesting that this flotilla of mercenaries, smugglers and terrorists didn't see fit to bring any guns along - maybe, just maybe they were delivering aid to Gaza? 

Why does everyone not see that??

Do me a bloody favour & read my posts 

They KNEW the marines were coming as they had prior warnings for OVER A WEEK AGO

Also ships nowadays have radar! The IDF boarded the ships to take them to the port NOT to kill them 

Don't worry always do!!

So warnings, and it follows as every humantarian aid ship to Gaza has been illegally intercepted by Israel to date, make the action in international water ok then?

On that basis the Somali pirates are in the right when they attack international ships as the Captains have fair warning it is going to happen??!

Don't think so!

So why don't u & me go over to Tel Aviv stay in one of their fabulous hotels, maybe the honeymoon suite  & discuss this further   

[Sixstring]

Good discussion on Radio 2 at the mo, lot of sense said too......

[albitz]

If armed Israeli commandos descended on me in the middle of the night, I'm not sure my first instinct would be to put the kettle on and invite them in...what with their usual "shoot first....deny all knowledge later" policy. So yes, they were attacked.....interesting that this flotilla of mercenaries, smugglers and terrorists didn't see fit to bring any guns along - maybe, just maybe they were delivering aid to Gaza? 

Why does everyone not see that??

Israel have a well oiled media spin machine that quickly suppresses all but their own version of events I suppose Liz  :-/
This is Israel attacking a European sovereign state in international waters....it doesn't matter if the flag the ship carried was a Union Jack or a Crescent Moon and Star (sorry Cem - I don't know the name of the Turkish flag) - surely we can't allow this atrocity to be swept under the carpet? 

My understandng is that the ship came from occupied  Northern Cyprus, which is not a sovereign state - european or otherwise.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

If armed Israeli commandos descended on me in the middle of the night, I'm not sure my first instinct would be to put the kettle on and invite them in...what with their usual "shoot first....deny all knowledge later" policy. So yes, they were attacked.....interesting that this flotilla of mercenaries, smugglers and terrorists didn't see fit to bring any guns along - maybe, just maybe they were delivering aid to Gaza? 

Why does everyone not see that??

Do me a bloody favour & read my posts 

They KNEW the marines were coming as they had prior warnings for OVER A WEEK AGO

Also ships nowadays have radar! The IDF boarded the ships to take them to the port NOT to kill them 

Don't worry always do!!

So warnings, and it follows as every humantarian aid ship to Gaza has been illegally intercepted by Israel to date, make the action in international water ok then?

On that basis the Somali pirates are in the right when they attack international ships as the Captains have fair warning it is going to happen??!

Don't think so!

So why don't u & me go over to Tel Aviv stay in one of their fabulous hotels, maybe the honeymoon suite  & discuss this further   

mmmmmmmmm What a tempting offer!! 8-) 8-)

[Sixstring]

providing you don't go by boat.................

Wouldn't Lizzie be taking her two big bazookas???


(sorry.....could'nt resist it.....)

[Lizzie_Zoom]

providing you don't go by boat.................

Wouldn't Lizzie be taking her two big bazookas???


(sorry.....could'nt resist it.....)

Trouble is SS they would never admit me to their country after all that I have written about them!

[cem_devecioglu]

If armed Israeli commandos descended on me in the middle of the night, I'm not sure my first instinct would be to put the kettle on and invite them in...what with their usual "shoot first....deny all knowledge later" policy. So yes, they were attacked.....interesting that this flotilla of mercenaries, smugglers and terrorists didn't see fit to bring any guns along - maybe, just maybe they were delivering aid to Gaza? 

Why does everyone not see that??

Israel have a well oiled media spin machine that quickly suppresses all but their own version of events I suppose Liz  :-/
This is Israel attacking a European sovereign state in international waters....it doesn't matter if the flag the ship carried was a Union Jack or a Crescent Moon and Star (sorry Cem - I don't know the name of the Turkish flag) - surely we can't allow this atrocity to be swept under the carpet? 

It is hoped that enough of the international community will put pressure on that to stop this from happening, but the signs are not good with the USA already seemingly taking a pro-Israel stance

Well, at least it's a balance to your anti-Israel stance.

funnily enough, Turkey officially were pro-Israel....well until around 4am yesterday morning anyway 

yep.. now Israel must be proud of the international fiasco because after yesterday they can write whole 75 million nation to the hamas side.. well done..

[cem_devecioglu]

If armed Israeli commandos descended on me in the middle of the night, I'm not sure my first instinct would be to put the kettle on and invite them in...what with their usual "shoot first....deny all knowledge later" policy. So yes, they were attacked.....interesting that this flotilla of mercenaries, smugglers and terrorists didn't see fit to bring any guns along - maybe, just maybe they were delivering aid to Gaza? 

Why does everyone not see that??

Israel have a well oiled media spin machine that quickly suppresses all but their own version of events I suppose Liz  :-/
This is Israel attacking a European sovereign state in international waters....it doesn't matter if the flag the ship carried was a Union Jack or a Crescent Moon and Star (sorry Cem - I don't know the name of the Turkish flag) - surely we can't allow this atrocity to be swept under the carpet? 

My understandng is that the ship came from occupied  Northern Cyprus, which is not a sovereign state - european or otherwise.

I feel a bit provocation here

[Sixstring]

CREEEEAK!!

(sound of can of worms being opened......)