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Author Topic: 3.0L Cams - Implications  (Read 8348 times)

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ClarCE

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3.0L Cams - Implications
« on: 17 April 2007, 14:28:07 »
Hi all,

As some of you are aware I'm going to be fitting (with help) my 3.0L (excellent condition) cams soon, to my 2.5 V6.

What I wanted to know was what implications that this might have on the future - besides things like fuel economy, I wouldn't be doing this if I was remotely bothered about that sort of thing..

What I am thinking about is increased wear, blowing spark plugs out of the wells and destroying the engine, getting heavily pitted pistons and eventual destruction - these kinds of things.  Engine has 101K on it at the moment, what can I realistically expect to get from it by changing the cams over.

Or

Will it do nothing except use more fuel and make me smile more :D

Cheers,

Chris.
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications
« Reply #1 on: 17 April 2007, 14:45:30 »
Remember this.....this engine is pretty much the same as the 3.0 one with the excepetion of the bore and stroke....and Vx sold 2.5V6 power plant with the 3.0 cams fitted in the Vectra GSi......

So its all smiles and no worries...
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tunnie

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Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications
« Reply #2 on: 17 April 2007, 14:57:47 »
Quote
Remember this.....this engine is pretty much the same as the 3.0 one with the excepetion of the bore and stroke....and Vx sold 2.5V6 power plant with the 3.0 cams fitted in the Vectra GSi......

So its all smiles and no worries...

Just to hi-jack this thread a bit (sorry Chris)

Mark, can 3.0 cams be fitted to the 2.6? Or do they have to be the 3.2 cams?

Seen a very nice 2.6 MV6 Manual for sale, and if I had the cash would have traded up! I will prob get a 2.6 when I do finally trade up...

I am assuming like the 2.0 / 2.2 the 2.6 is just a stroked 2.5? With a slightly larger bore?
« Last Edit: 17 April 2007, 15:02:50 by tunnie »
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omegaV6CD

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Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications
« Reply #3 on: 17 April 2007, 15:10:55 »
Quote
Hi all,

As some of you are aware I'm going to be fitting (with help) my 3.0L (excellent condition) cams soon, to my 2.5 V6.

What I wanted to know was what implications that this might have on the future - besides things like fuel economy, I wouldn't be doing this if I was remotely bothered about that sort of thing..

What I am thinking about is increased wear, blowing spark plugs out of the wells and destroying the engine, getting heavily pitted pistons and eventual destruction - these kinds of things.  Engine has 101K on it at the moment, what can I realistically expect to get from it by changing the cams over.

Or

Will it do nothing except use more fuel and make me smile more :D

Cheers,

Chris.

You strictly need new lifters if you want the Job to be a proper one. Other than that you should have absolutely no issues.
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ClarCE

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Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications
« Reply #4 on: 17 April 2007, 15:32:01 »
All sounds good, already smiling more :D :D

No worries Tunnie, I do it all the time :P

Would you worry about the lifters then as Omegav6cd suggests Mark?  I didn't really want to be pulling the head to peices to be honest..
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JamesV6CDX

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Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications
« Reply #5 on: 17 April 2007, 15:36:54 »
Quote
All sounds good, already smiling more :D :D

No worries Tunnie, I do it all the time :P

Would you worry about the lifters then as Omegav6cd suggests Mark?  I didn't really want to be pulling the head to peices to be honest..

You won't be pulling the head to peices

Once the cams are out, the lifters just pull upwards

(a suction device helps!)
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Kevin Wood

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Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications
« Reply #6 on: 17 April 2007, 15:42:40 »
Agreed, the lifters would be an easy change with the cams already out but a new set of 24 of them would make this quite an expensive operation.

Kevin
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Kevin Wood

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Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications
« Reply #7 on: 17 April 2007, 15:44:31 »
... but then isn't only one of the cams (Inlet / Exhaust) different between 2.5 / 3.0 in any case .. or did I imagine that?

So presumably one cam and lifters in each bank could stay.


Kevin
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications
« Reply #8 on: 17 April 2007, 15:54:07 »
Thats true of the older C25XE but, not the X25XE.....as for the lifters.....I would test and clean them......
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ClarCE

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Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications
« Reply #9 on: 17 April 2007, 16:32:10 »
Ok, I have a couple more questions following responses:

1.) When cleaning and testing the lifters are there any seals I need to replace?

2.) Part number for 2.5 V6 Lifters incase when testing I find any broken ones

3.) Part number for 3.0 V6 Lifters as I may just replace the lot if not mega bucks...

Cheers again!

Chris.
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Matchless

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Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications
« Reply #10 on: 17 April 2007, 16:48:00 »
Lifters are the same across all V6 Ecotec engines of the same vintage.
There were some changes around 97/98 which is tied in with a different oil pump which required modified T vents, the lifters also changed to a different construction but that was for reliability, not oil pressure reasons.

When the cams are out you can clean and test the lifters following the guide on here.

Remember when assembling:-
Green sealant under the front cam bearing cap front edges, black sealant in the corners of the camcover seal path but take care to keep the sealant away from the drain holes in the front bearing caps.
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ClarCE

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Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications
« Reply #11 on: 17 April 2007, 16:52:39 »
Quote
Lifters are the same across all V6 Ecotec engines of the same vintage.
There were some changes around 97/98 which is tied in with a different oil pump which required modified T vents, the lifters also changed to a different construction but that was for reliability, not oil pressure reasons.

When the cams are out you can clean and test the lifters following the guide on here.

Remember when assembling:-
Green sealant under the front cam bearing cap front edges, black sealant in the corners of the camcover seal path but take care to keep the sealant away from the drain holes in the front bearing caps.

Chances are that mine are of the 'changed' variety then seeing as its a 98 car - if I read what you're saying correctly, there is no difference in the lifters between 2.5 and 3.0 varients..
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Kevin Wood

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Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications
« Reply #12 on: 17 April 2007, 16:52:50 »
When I've thought about changing them in the past on other engines they've been 7 or 8 quid each. Multiply by 24 and it's expensive.

In theory you should change them with the cam. In practice I think if the lifters are in OK condition I'd leave the old ones in. If I were fitting brand new cams I'd treat them to a new set of lifters.

It may be worth giving them a clean because once crud gets into them there is no where for it to go.

How are the lifters at the moment? Do they quieten quickly after an engine start?

I have heard you can planish the top surfaces with some fine wet and dry prior to re-fitting but not sure I could make them any flatter than a set of decent 100k lifters anyway!

Kevin
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ClarCE

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Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications
« Reply #13 on: 17 April 2007, 16:55:17 »
Quote
When I've thought about changing them in the past on other engines they've been 7 or 8 quid each. Multiply by 24 and it's expensive.

In theory you should change them with the cam. In practice I think if the lifters are in OK condition I'd leave the old ones in. If I were fitting brand new cams I'd treat them to a new set of lifters.

It may be worth giving them a clean because once crud gets into them there is no where for it to go.

How are the lifters at the moment? Do they quieten quickly after an engine start?

I have heard you can planish the top surfaces with some fine wet and dry prior to re-fitting but not sure I could make them any flatter than a set of decent 100k lifters anyway!

Kevin

Mine is a pretty quiet one I think - there is noise there that I can hear, but its not loud - maybe I just have a couple that are knackered...

Maybe I'll buy five of them and take back what I don't use when attempting this job..
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Ronald_McBurger

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Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications
« Reply #14 on: 17 April 2007, 16:56:56 »
Yeah yeah, you all sound very knowledgable, but has yoiur MV6 got a Homer Simpson that flashes when you brake?
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