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[redelitev6]

  I was talking to Lord Lucan and Elvis the other day and they both think the C.I.A. were behind this 

[albitz]

Its actually very unlikely that Bush was at that time the democratically elected president. Does anyone remembr the unseemly shambles in Florida - where iirc his brother was the governor ?
I saw part of a documentary on 9/11 on TV last night, in which they showed an interview with the man who owned the towers (or CEO of the company which owned them ?) recoreded about a year after the event.
He said " I took a call from the fire chief, and he said the fires were out of control, they were going to have to pull the buildings".
"Pull the building" is an industry term for controlled demolition.
This could sound suspicious and add to conspiricy theories, but I would like to know how they organised and staged the controlled demolition of 2 of the worlds tallest buildings in the space of a couple of hours ?
The explanation Lizzie gave is spot on imo. The floors were reinforced (prestressed ?) concrete which sat on steel girders. Once one floor fell onto the next floor there was then twice the weight to fall onto the one below that and so on......
I worked in the manufacture of concrete floors for 20 years, and have seen floors collapse (albeit on a much smaller scale) with very similar results.
Having said all that, they did appear to come down in a very neat and tidy fashion, and for that to happen twice in the same day would take a level of expertise infinitely higher than mine to conclusively explain. :-/

[Jinglemaster2]

Let us look at the theory you want me to believe then.

The pankcake theory as it is known. Fire buckles the beams and the floor gives way. Above it is 22 more floors and they as a huge block will fall and form the top pankcake, the massive weight and speed of falling will crushe the following floor and so on until we end up at the ground.

Ok, first of all, you are forgetting the central core. What happened to that? because that isn't concrete, so cannot just expolode like concrete cam.

Then there is the fact that we didn't end up with a 12 story lump on top of all the crushed floors either.

The speed the buildings collapsed has been measured at 9.6 seconds from start to finish. That calculates to free fall speed. Impossible as the resistance of each floor will slow the collapse.

So, you are wondering how this was all arranged and set up in a matter of hours? it wasn't. It was set up over a number of years. There was upgrading of all floors carried out over several years. More than enough time to install everything.

The weekend before 911 all power was cut to the entire WTC, stopping all CCTV as well as everything else. There was heavy drilling and installation carried out during that weekend.

There were exposions in the basement, necessary to make room for the collapse.

Building 7 was rock solid. No steel constructed building has ever collapsed unless being demolished. This particluar 42 story building was shielded from most danmage by buildings 5 & 6, which oddly did not collapse dispite massively more damage and fire.

I do not know what did happen. I do know that the truth is very far from just a plane striking the buildings. Explosions can be clearly seen in front of the falling buildings just as in any demolition.

IF what I say has any truth in it at all, how could the people who actually knew and actually did this live with what they did? that one is beyond me.

I wasn't there so I do not know. I just go by the obvious fact that tere was demolition involved. You coul not just demolish these buildings, so hit them first and it all seems ok.

I challange anyone at all to explain how building 7 just collapsed in a beuatiful perfect way, with enough space for all the rubble. When two much more severely damaged buildings in front of it remained. Anyone?

[Varche]

If there was a conspiracy, then what were its objectives?! It hasn't really changed anything much in the world ten years on but it caused a lot of personal grief and of course the luvvies on Wall St lost a packet over a few days.

[albitz]

Wall st. lost money for a lot lot longer than a few days. But if you believe the conspiracy theory then the reason presumably, would have to be that it gave Bush the excuse to do what he did.

[Unicornrider]

Conspiracy nuts...tick

Alien Nut...Tick

Believe the world isnt a nice place...Tick

Thing is people knew the world was flat...wasn't any question of that,until one day opps we were wrong its round.

The twin towers was a terrorist attack...Fact....just depends too be seen from which country.

Why do we so readily except Hitler was a mad man and killed without blinking yet that nice mr bush couldn't do such a terrible thing.

Take the blinkers off.

Because the very big difference is that Hitler was a dictator, in a totalitarian state.  If you spoke up against what he was doing you were shot, or the very least hidden away in a concentration camp.

On the other hand Mr Bush was a democratically elected President, in a democracy where people, and the press, can freely speak up against what their leader is doing, can protest against it, even take legal action against the administration through the political opposition who can also freely do so.

Two completely different situations, and if you do not understand that then it may explain why you are so eager to support the theory that the US President, his advisers, all agency workers, the politicians of the opposition et al, were involved in mass conspiracy to murder.

Lizzie people don't disappear in America...oh my you've made me giggle,difference between Hitler and Bush is Hitler was open about it and Bush (or what bush called a Government isnt).

Do honestly think that with America"s massive intelligence (much of we never hear about) network they wouldn't of have a sniff this was coming (the attack i mean) nor they had the means or the chance too scramble fighter jets too intercept..come on 

You believe that the pentagon had a plane hit it and punch through 5 solid walls...yet no huge explosion like the towers...how come then the pentagon had a clean hole.

Its so impossible that the Americans could do such a thing....that's how they knew they could get away with it.

I mean Diana couldn't possibly have been killed could she...?

The americans were never preparing a nuclear strike on Colonel Gardiffy back in the Libya days....no of course they wouldn't ever do that.

I do admire your beliefs and in a way wish i could just except blindly what im TOLD too believe.

(Being brought up on base(s) you have certainly learn too think for yourself)

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Conspiracy nuts...tick

Alien Nut...Tick

Believe the world isnt a nice place...Tick

Thing is people knew the world was flat...wasn't any question of that,until one day opps we were wrong its round.

The twin towers was a terrorist attack...Fact....just depends too be seen from which country.

Why do we so readily except Hitler was a mad man and killed without blinking yet that nice mr bush couldn't do such a terrible thing.

Take the blinkers off.

Because the very big difference is that Hitler was a dictator, in a totalitarian state.  If you spoke up against what he was doing you were shot, or the very least hidden away in a concentration camp.

On the other hand Mr Bush was a democratically elected President, in a democracy where people, and the press, can freely speak up against what their leader is doing, can protest against it, even take legal action against the administration through the political opposition who can also freely do so.

Two completely different situations, and if you do not understand that then it may explain why you are so eager to support the theory that the US President, his advisers, all agency workers, the politicians of the opposition et al, were involved in mass conspiracy to murder.

Lizzie people don't disappear in America...oh my you've made me giggle,difference between Hitler and Bush is Hitler was open about it and Bush (or what bush called a Government isnt).

Do honestly think that with America"s massive intelligence (much of we never hear about) network they wouldn't of have a sniff this was coming (the attack i mean) nor they had the means or the chance too scramble fighter jets too intercept..come on 

You believe that the pentagon had a plane hit it and punch through 5 solid walls...yet no huge explosion like the towers...how come then the pentagon had a clean hole.

Its so impossible that the Americans could do such a thing....that's how they knew they could get away with it.

I mean Diana couldn't possibly have been killed could she...?

The americans were never preparing a nuclear strike on Colonel Gardiffy back in the Libya days....no of course they wouldn't ever do that.

I do admire your beliefs and in a way wish i could just except blindly what im TOLD too believe.

(Being brought up on base(s) you have certainly learn too think for yourself)

Me, believe what I am told?  How little you know me

Believe me I'm my own woman every time! 8-) 8-)

[Unicornrider]

Lizzie i dont know you but i assume your the same as any other modern woman..confident,out going and equal too any man.

I have the greatest respect for you and each forum member.

Im just a little different in the way i see things and choose too take them onboard.

That and ofcourse being a man im by defualt of superior intelligence...even if i havent i still have.... (just teasing dear )

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Lizzie i dont know you but i assume your the same as any other modern woman..confident,out going and equal too any man.

I have the greatest respect for you and each forum member.

Im just a little different in the way i see things and choose too take them onboard.

That and ofcourse being a man im by defualt of superior intelligence...even if i havent i still have.... (just teasing dear )

Absolutely right to do so! 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)   Don't worry as some on here know I can be of a very strong mind and voice, being as stubborn as I can, as of course I am a woman!!

I am glad Unicornrider that you have joined into a debate when being new to the forum, and long may you continue to do so!

Here's to the next debate

[Unicornrider]

Now that's what i call a woman...knows her faults and isnt afraid too publicly admit them.

I just wish i could relay my messages on here as eloquently as some of you fine people,i just say what i think and feel.

You know lizzie the whole Bush twin towers could be a long the lines of The invasion of the body snatchers...the one with Daniel ""corrr blimey"" Craig.

Now THATS a conspirany theory...

[Nickbat]

The weekend before 911 all power was cut to the entire WTC

This allegation is sourced to one person, Scott Forbes of Fiduciary Trust. He claims that "this power down condition meant there was no electrical supply for approx 36hrs from floor 50 up". So NOT the entire WTC. Additionally, he was unable to verify that claim. Interview transcript:

How do you know that there was no electricity from floor 50 up, if Fiduciary Trust was on much higher floors -- starting at the 90th floor?

SF: I can't absolutely verify that there was no power on lower floors ... all I can validate is that we were informed of the power down condition, that we had to take down all systems and then the following day had to bring back up all systems ...

No mention of heavy drilling. No entire WTC power down.

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc_power_down.html

The speed the buildings collapsed has been measured at 9.6 seconds from start to finish. That calculates to free fall speed. Impossible as the resistance of each floor will slow the collapse.

As the floors collapse they take with them increasing energy, enough to offset resistance. Each floor collapse acted like a hammer - increasing in mass with each level. That's not going against Newton's law, it just means that the sheer weight would have made the lower floors collapse as if they weren't there at all.

Explosions can be clearly seen in front of the falling buildings just as in any demolition.

This is just idle speculation. What does an explosion look like? If it's merely ejection of material, then it must be remembered that the collapsing floors were increasing downward air pressure in a violent manner, thus the sideward ejection of loose material is likely.


For a 33-story building, it takes 12 persons 24 days to lay 4,118 separate charges in 1,100 locations on 9 levels of the structure. Over 36,000 ft. of detonating cord and 4,512 non-electric delay devices are used.

http://www.controlled-demolition.com/default.asp?reqLocId=6&reqItemId=20020304145120

I doubt you could ever find 12 American citizens who were prepared to lay charges throughout the WTC. Of course that number is in addition to all the planners and the detonation crew. Were this to be true, they would all be accessories to mass murder. The Americans are fiercely loyal to their own nationality. Any thought of mass slaughter of US citizens may be entertained by a few deranged home-grown individuals but, if you believe this hoax, the necessary covert planning and execution to make it happen would in reality have been impossible.   

Finally, hoaxers believe that the plane-hijackings were a part of the grand scheme. How did they ensure airport security did not apprehend the suspects by chance before they were able to board? If you're planning such a complex operation, you don't leave things like that to possibly screw things up, so were the airport security approached by men with dark glasses before 11 September? 

The whole idea that this was anything other than an Al-Qaida terrorist attack is interesting when you first look at it, but barmy when you look deeper. (IMHO)

   

[Gaffers]

I was talking to Lord Lucan and Elvis the other day and they both think the C.I.A. were behind this 

Funny, Diana and Michael Jackson told me it was the FBI.... the plot thckens

Seriously though, having had first hand experience of them and what they can do, only an idiot will assume that most terrorists are not in fact very very intelligent people who can see a weaknesses and exploit them.  In fact if they were generals in charge of armies they would as sucessful as Slim and Monty because they can pitch what little strength they have against the enemy's weakness; a key principle of manoeuvre warfare 

Edit:  In fact the move against the Pentagon was further proof of an intelligent attack, another principle of manoeuvre warfare is to dislocate the Command element from the Chain of command.  The Japanese were excellent at this in the Burmah jungle, a tactic Slim used reciprocally and pushes them back from India and towards Singapore.

[Pipsqueak]

The pentagon was hit by a plane...we all know how fragile a plane is,yet this punched a lovely clean hole through 5 walls was it ?

Apparently all that section had been closed for renovation/decoration.  No work had started abd yet there was not a single person in that party of the Pentagon.

[cem_devecioglu]

"the steel core was melted by the heat of airplanes explosion and burning" .. blah blah blah

you tell this to a structural engineer and he will laugh with his ars*.. and me too

most of the fuel wil be burned within few seconds after the intial impact.. and wont last so long.. and all the structures connecting to those chasis will have cooling effect..

take into account that this structure is many hundred meters long ..let alone the temperature of burning fuel will not be adequate..

thats a big lie.. probably the biggest lie in history..

watch those videos about 9/11 ...  they are no joke..

and if you connect with the events after, and the dark relations , no need for absurd theories.. reality is there .. if you want to see.

[cem_devecioglu]

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/wtc7.html?q=wtc7.html

http://www.rense.com/general65/911b.htm

and an important video, check micheal moore fahrenheit 9/11 from google .. you will find many useful links..