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[cem_devecioglu]

and one for the pentagon..

http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/pentagon.htm

[steve_daly]

Ok please explain this......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ15hOkekeM&feature=related

Indeed, Tower 7 not struck by aircraft, maybe some debris and residual fire, still collapsed in the same manner....

Also on the pentagon. All the tourists and sight see-ers, not one had a camera or camcorder at the time to capture a low flying aircraft like many did for the WTC attacks.

9:43am on a weekday in September. And are tourists allowed into the grounds of the Pentagon?

There are a lot more tourists in NYC, yet there are very few videos of the first plane impact, the notable exception being the one that was shot by a professional crew who happened to be out and about.
And, of course, the cameraman only looked up when he heard the jet noise and he just happened to be filming at the time. Had he not been been actually recording, he would have missed, such was the time between first seeing the plane and impact. And yet you think lots of tourists would have recorded AA 77's impact?   

And while we're on about it, don't you think ATC staff would have followed Flight 77 right to the site of the Pentagon, even if it was under the radar for the last half-mile and even if its "squawk indent" was switched off by the hijackers. I suppose the government paid them off as well.     

Methinks the conspiracy theorists are clutching at straws.

So no-one visiting/living in the area surrounding the Pentagon that day had a camera, stills or otherwise?

From what I recall there are plenty of various bits of footage of both the WTC attacks, and yet the only 'evidence' of the Pentagon attack is five or six blury stills of a 'plane' caught on one of the many CCTV cameras surrounding the place.

No-one saw or heard it comming pffff. No-one had a camera, cell phone.

I don't recall claiming to be a 'conspiracy theorist' either thanks Nick.

[Nickbat]

http://wtcdemolition.com/ * please watch the video..

I watched bit of that and the "narrator" says "watch the ejections of material form the side of the tower keeping pace with the collapsing floors. Perhaps you can think of a natural cause, I can't".

My response to the narrator? That's because you're thick and/or suffering from cognitive dissonance.

Last night I watched an interview with a fire fighter who was trapped in the collapse. One of the most telling remarks he made was that the collapsing floors above caused hurricane like winds as the air was compressed and ejected outwards.

Like I said, natural causes.

Sorry it doesn't support the demolition theory.

 

[cem_devecioglu]

http://wtcdemolition.com/ * please watch the video..

I watched bit of that and the "narrator" says "watch the ejections of material form the side of the tower keeping pace with the collapsing floors. Perhaps you can think of a natural cause, I can't".

My response to the narrator? That's because you're thick and/or suffering from cognitive dissonance.

Last night I watched an interview with a fire fighter who was trapped in the collapse. One of the most telling remarks he made was that the collapsing floors above caused hurricane like winds as the air was compressed and ejected outwards.

Like I said, natural causes.

Sorry it doesn't support the demolition theory.

 

 

there are many proofs in those links, explanations pictures , videos etc..

and even I can see those explosions in lower floors far from collapse point..

now here are some explanations
"Why the Towers of the World Trade Center collapsed
The airplanes did not a have true effect on the destruction of towers; they were needed to give an excuse for odd Orwellian wars at the same time when the USA is turned into a police nation, like the German Third Reich, to some extent. The towers took the impacts of crushing Boeing 767's. The towers were originally built to take impacts of Boeing 707's, which are approximately of the same size and was widely used in the 1970's. Fires that kindled from the fuel in the planes were too shortlasting and weak to be able to severely damage the structure of the skyscrapers. Even in the extreme situation, the heat from a kerosene fire cannot threat the durability of a steel trunk. With the temperature of carbohydrate fires that reaches only 825 °C (approx. 1517 °F) steel weakens at 800 °C (approx. 1470 °F) and melts at 1585 °C (approx. 2890 °F). In the skyscrapers of the WTC the surroundings were not at all ideal as there were far too many steel columns and they led heat away from the burning area. WTC 1 burned for 102 minutes and WTC 2 for 56 minutes only. A fire burning much longer, from 10 to 20 hours, could slowly increase the burning temperature down to perhaps 1100 °C (approx. 2010 °F). Provided there is more substance to burn, such a fire will damage concrete and irons, but not severely heavy steel constructions. "

In mid-February in Madrid, the Windsor Tower (left) burned for over 20 hours, which led to a fire stronger and hotter than that in the WTC, but even the collapses of the Windsor Tower caused by the very strong and long-enduring fire were minimal and limited to the upper floors. If either of the WTC tower had started to collapse because of fires the collapse would have been limited to only a few of the floors and then stopped.

The impossibility of a gravitational collapse is closer seen in other documents. A collapse would produce large pieces, and does not explain reports of fine dust from concrete, huge amounts of dust and pieces of steel ejected outwards.Destruction of the towers by explosions is clear according to the photographs and reports of the eye witnesses. In the picture below, a range of cutting charges have just exploded in the down left sector and a typical white cloud is formed outwards from the wall. Down right, explosions are seen as well. Even a flame is seen. ""In video tapes taken of the so-called collapses of the WTC, more explosions of these cutting charges can be seen. The explosions advance quickly, with a gap of a couple of floors, cutting the strong steel pillars in the outer wall. The explosions are timed so that it appears that the tower collapses occur in the same timing as in a gravitational collapse. "http://911lies.org/WTC_collapse_demolition_explosions.html

now you do choose which you want to believe

edit : another one with seismic work

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/9-11_wtc_videos.html?q=9-11_wtc_videos.html

[Lizzie_Zoom]

http://wtcdemolition.com/ * please watch the video..

I watched bit of that and the "narrator" says "watch the ejections of material form the side of the tower keeping pace with the collapsing floors. Perhaps you can think of a natural cause, I can't".

My response to the narrator? That's because you're thick and/or suffering from cognitive dissonance.

Last night I watched an interview with a fire fighter who was trapped in the collapse. One of the most telling remarks he made was that the collapsing floors above caused hurricane like winds as the air was compressed and ejected outwards.

Like I said, natural causes.

Sorry it doesn't support the demolition theory.

 

 

there are many proofs in those links, explanations pictures , videos etc..

and even I can see those explosions in lower floors far from collapse point..

now here are some explanations
"Why the Towers of the World Trade Center collapsed
The airplanes did not a have true effect on the destruction of towers; they were needed to give an excuse for odd Orwellian wars at the same time when the USA is turned into a police nation, like the German Third Reich, to some extent. The towers took the impacts of crushing Boeing 767's. The towers were originally built to take impacts of Boeing 707's, which are approximately of the same size and was widely used in the 1970's. Fires that kindled from the fuel in the planes were too shortlasting and weak to be able to severely damage the structure of the skyscrapers. Even in the extreme situation, the heat from a kerosene fire cannot threat the durability of a steel trunk. With the temperature of carbohydrate fires that reaches only 825 °C (approx. 1517 °F) steel weakens at 800 °C (approx. 1470 °F) and melts at 1585 °C (approx. 2890 °F). In the skyscrapers of the WTC the surroundings were not at all ideal as there were far too many steel columns and they led heat away from the burning area. WTC 1 burned for 102 minutes and WTC 2 for 56 minutes only. A fire burning much longer, from 10 to 20 hours, could slowly increase the burning temperature down to perhaps 1100 °C (approx. 2010 °F). Provided there is more substance to burn, such a fire will damage concrete and irons, but not severely heavy steel constructions. "

In mid-February in Madrid, the Windsor Tower (left) burned for over 20 hours, which led to a fire stronger and hotter than that in the WTC, but even the collapses of the Windsor Tower caused by the very strong and long-enduring fire were minimal and limited to the upper floors. If either of the WTC tower had started to collapse because of fires the collapse would have been limited to only a few of the floors and then stopped.

The impossibility of a gravitational collapse is closer seen in other documents. A collapse would produce large pieces, and does not explain reports of fine dust from concrete, huge amounts of dust and pieces of steel ejected outwards.Destruction of the towers by explosions is clear according to the photographs and reports of the eye witnesses. In the picture below, a range of cutting charges have just exploded in the down left sector and a typical white cloud is formed outwards from the wall. Down right, explosions are seen as well. Even a flame is seen. ""In video tapes taken of the so-called collapses of the WTC, more explosions of these cutting charges can be seen. The explosions advance quickly, with a gap of a couple of floors, cutting the strong steel pillars in the outer wall. The explosions are timed so that it appears that the tower collapses occur in the same timing as in a gravitational collapse. "http://911lies.org/WTC_collapse_demolition_explosions.html

now you do choose which you want to believe

edit : another one with seismic work

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/9-11_wtc_videos.html?q=9-11_wtc_videos.html

Cem, I'm sorry but you will never convince me that it was a conspiracy with the Towers being blown.

Now what I'm interested in is how you, and any conspiracy theorist, would answer the points I made on page 1 of this thread, and one particular paragraph:

[size=24]"[/size]
We also know that senior demolition experts have stated it would have required an army of demolition men over days/weeks to drill and place demolition charges on each floor to manage any kind of deliberate demolition.  This would have involved all the people who worked in the Towers to have ignored all the turmoil, noise, and dust whilst these demolition men KNOWINGLY sowed the seeds for the killing of thousands of fellow human beings.  In a democractic society it would also have involved thousands of CIA, FBI, varous other government agencies, let alone senior politicians to have ignored what was KNOWINGLY going on, and play no part in stopping the MURDER of thousands of fellow human beings, possibly relations and friends included, not even leaking anything to the press!! 
[size=24]"[/size]

How would have all those people, including all the emergency workers involved post attack, and including their relatives, to have been kept quiet for all these years, and for the years to come?  Why has not one claim, to my knowledge, have been made by even one person to have been involved and released to the main stream press eager for such money spinning stories? :-/ :-/ :-/

[cem_devecioglu]

good questions Lizzie..

this may give some idea..

So, on who's authority did such events take place? Good Question.
Under the authority of the presidents brother, MARVIN Bush.

Marvin P. Bush, the president’s younger brother, was a principal in a company called 'Securacom'
.Securacom provided security for the World Trade Center, United Airlines, and Dulles International Airport. The company was backed by KuwAm, a Kuwaiti-American investment firm, on whose board Marvin Bush also served. [Utne]

According to its present CEO, Barry McDaniel, the company had an ongoing contract to handle security at the World Trade Center "up to the day the buildings fell down.

from

http://911lies.org/WTC_collapse_demolition_explosions.html

now as seen, not that hard as it seems if you have critical positions..

and to answer your second question , I think I'm not the one who must answer them

[cem_devecioglu]

and some engineering concepts (which verifies my saying about the buildings structure design)

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/wtc_demolition_init.htm

[Lizzie_Zoom]

and some engineering concepts (which verifies my saying about the buildings structure design)

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/wtc_demolition_init.htm

Thanks for your attempt to answer my questions Cem, but I realise you cannot answer them no more than any 9/11 conspiracy theorist can, due to the fact that any man made demolition never happened; there are not thousands of people having to be kept quiet, including blood spitting relatives, because it was a terrorist attack involving two jet airliners smashing into two office blocks, with the result they finally collapsed due to all the stress, fire and damage.

As for your quote, it is by an unknown source, via a web site with "fairy" in its name!  The professional architects who's reports I have read, and seen a documentary by  a similar group, all conclude (to repeat my earlier post) that the beams popped off their hangers, with the perimeter steel supports buckling in the extreme heat of an enclosed kerosene fire, and the floors they supported all collapsing onto the next floor, then the next, and the next, at ever increasing speed, just like a pack of cards.

Really Cem that is it, and until anyone claims to have been part of the demolition team, or the cover up team of thousands, or even one of the 10's of thousands of relatives who know they lost a relative or work collegue, or someone else, due to a US government conspiracy, that in turn would have involved hundreds, going onto to thousands, I will not believe anything else .

 

[cem_devecioglu]

and some engineering concepts (which verifies my saying about the buildings structure design)

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/wtc_demolition_init.htm

Thanks for your attempt to answer my questions Cem, but I realise you cannot answer them no more than any 9/11 conspiracy theorist can, due to the fact that any man made demolition never happened; there are not thousands of people having to be kept quiet, including blood spitting relatives, because it was a terrorist attack involving two jet airliners smashing into two office blocks, with the result they finally collapsed due to all the stress, fire and damage.

As for your quote, it is by an unknown source, via a web site with "fairy" in its name!  The professional architects who's reports I have read, and seen a documentary by  a similar group, all conclude (to repeat my earlier post) that the beams popped off their hangers, with the perimeter steel supports buckling in the extreme heat of an enclosed kerosene fire, and the floors they supported all collapsing onto the next floor, then the next, and the next, at ever increasing speed, just like a pack of cards.

Really Cem that is it, and until anyone claims to have been part of the demolition team, or the cover up team of thousands, or even one of the 10's of thousands of relatives who know they lost a relative or work collegue, or someone else, due to a US government conspiracy, that in turn would have involved hundreds, going onto to thousands, I will not believe anything else .

 

 Lizzie , engineering calculations are facts.. not something that you can simply ignore.. Also I have given many links to videos and pictures to proove what I say..  if you want to close your eyes than no problem for me

[Lizzie_Zoom]

and some engineering concepts (which verifies my saying about the buildings structure design)

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/wtc_demolition_init.htm

Thanks for your attempt to answer my questions Cem, but I realise you cannot answer them no more than any 9/11 conspiracy theorist can, due to the fact that any man made demolition never happened; there are not thousands of people having to be kept quiet, including blood spitting relatives, because it was a terrorist attack involving two jet airliners smashing into two office blocks, with the result they finally collapsed due to all the stress, fire and damage.

As for your quote, it is by an unknown source, via a web site with "fairy" in its name!  The professional architects who's reports I have read, and seen a documentary by  a similar group, all conclude (to repeat my earlier post) that the beams popped off their hangers, with the perimeter steel supports buckling in the extreme heat of an enclosed kerosene fire, and the floors they supported all collapsing onto the next floor, then the next, and the next, at ever increasing speed, just like a pack of cards.

Really Cem that is it, and until anyone claims to have been part of the demolition team, or the cover up team of thousands, or even one of the 10's of thousands of relatives who know they lost a relative or work collegue, or someone else, due to a US government conspiracy, that in turn would have involved hundreds, going onto to thousands, I will not believe anything else .

 

 Lizzie , engineering calculations are facts.. not something that you can simply ignore.. Also I have given many links to videos and pictures to proove what I say..  if you want to close your eyes than no problem for me

But Cem, where are the hundreds, if not thousands of witnesses involved in the conspiracy??............I never close my eyes to precise evidence, but so far there is none.........so I think for once we will have to agree to disagree Cem

Whatever we think, nothing will change anyway!!

[cem_devecioglu]

and some engineering concepts (which verifies my saying about the buildings structure design)

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/wtc_demolition_init.htm

Thanks for your attempt to answer my questions Cem, but I realise you cannot answer them no more than any 9/11 conspiracy theorist can, due to the fact that any man made demolition never happened; there are not thousands of people having to be kept quiet, including blood spitting relatives, because it was a terrorist attack involving two jet airliners smashing into two office blocks, with the result they finally collapsed due to all the stress, fire and damage.

As for your quote, it is by an unknown source, via a web site with "fairy" in its name!  The professional architects who's reports I have read, and seen a documentary by  a similar group, all conclude (to repeat my earlier post) that the beams popped off their hangers, with the perimeter steel supports buckling in the extreme heat of an enclosed kerosene fire, and the floors they supported all collapsing onto the next floor, then the next, and the next, at ever increasing speed, just like a pack of cards.

Really Cem that is it, and until anyone claims to have been part of the demolition team, or the cover up team of thousands, or even one of the 10's of thousands of relatives who know they lost a relative or work collegue, or someone else, due to a US government conspiracy, that in turn would have involved hundreds, going onto to thousands, I will not believe anything else .

 

 Lizzie , engineering calculations are facts.. not something that you can simply ignore.. Also I have given many links to videos and pictures to proove what I say..  if you want to close your eyes than no problem for me

But Cem, where are the hundreds, if not thousands of witnesses involved in the conspiracy??............I never close my eyes to precise evidence, but so far there is none.........so I think for once we will have to agree to disagree Cem

Whatever we think, nothing will change anyway!!

some eyewitnesses say :

"It [WTC 2] started exploding," said Ross Milanytch, 57, who works at nearby Chase Manhattan Bank. "It was about the 70th floor. And each second another floor exploded out for about eight floors, before the cloud obscured it all." [ASNE] "I saw small explosions on each floor." [Wing TV]

"It actually gave at a lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit, because we originally had thought there was like an internal detonation explosives because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down." [Ed Cachia - Firefighter [Engine 53]]

One eyewitness whose office is near the World Trade Center told AFP that he was standing among a crowd of people on Church Street, about two-and-a-half blocks from the South tower, when he saw "a number of brief light sources being emitted from inside the building between floors 10 and 15." He saw about six of these brief flashes, accompanied by "a crackling sound" before the tower collapsed. Each tower had six central support columns. [American Free Press]

"We were there I don't know, maybe 10, 15 minutes and then I just remember there was just an explosion. It seemed like on television they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions." [Rich Banaciski - Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)]

"When I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, ..I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought -- at that time I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been as a result of the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down."

Q. "Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire was?"

A. "No, the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. And I didn't broach the topic to him, but he asked me. He said I don't know if I'm crazy, but I just wanted to ask you because you were standing right next to me… He said did you see any flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them, too." [Stephen Gregory - Assistant Commissioner (F.D.N.Y.)]

"Somewhere around the middle of the World Trade Center, there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then a red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building." [Karin Deshore - Captain (E.M.S.)]

The scientific paper Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe conclusively shows the presence of unignited aluminothermic explosives in dust samples from the Twin Towers, whose chemical signature matches previously documented aluminothermic residues found in the same dust samples.

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/explosive_residues.html

[cem_devecioglu]

and some pictures

[Turk]

Marvin Bush and the Planting of Explosives

If the hypothesis of controlled demolition is considered, there inevitably arises one serious obstacle to its plausibility. And that is the fact that thousands of pounds of explosives would have had to have been planted in and around the buildings' core columns and throughout its clearly restricted internal framework. So how, the skeptical questioning goes, did anyone planting these explosives have such ready access to such intimate parts of the building? As with so many of the essential questions raised by 9/11, what often appear at first to be strong arguments against any kind of 'conspiracy theory' that 9/11 was an inside job turn, suddenly, into stunning revelations about heretofore uncovered information that ultimately serve to confirm and strengthen the suspicions about 9/11 being, indeed, a well-orchestrated conspiracy theory.

Take, as an example, this question of how the explosives were planted. How could the security apparatus of the World Trade Center Complex, which was presumably highly sophisticated after the 1993 bombing, allow or not notice the laying of the explosives that supposedly felled the buildings? Well, upon investigating this security apparatus at the WTC, we quickly stumble into the fact that Marvin Bush, George W.'s younger brother, was a principal in a company called Securacom (now Stratesec), the very company in charge of security at the WTC in 2001. Again, it is important to note that the author is not making this up. "Marvin P. Bush, the president's younger brother, was a principal in a company called Securacom that provided security for the World Trade Center, United Airlines, and Dulles International Airport." And not to be outdone by this fact, we also learn that "from 1999 to January of 2002 (Marvin and George W.'s cousin) Wirt Walker III was the company's CEO."

That this stunning, remarkable fact is not front-page news in every newspaper in the country is a mystery I cannot answer, nor solve. That there were well documented power outages and swaths of whole floor shutdowns and evacuations in the weeks leading up to 9/11, perfect opportunities to carry up and plant necessary explosives under the guise of 'maintenance' and/or 'retrofitting' work, only fuels well-placed suspicions. In a People magazine article, Ben Fountain, 42, a financial analyst with Fireman's Fund who worked on the 47th floor of the South Tower, confirmed these evacuations by saying, "How could they let this happen? They knew this building was a target. Over the past few weeks we'd been evacuated a number of times, which is unusual. I think they had an inkling something was going on."

9/11- Hard Facts http://www.911hardfacts.com/

[cem_devecioglu]

Seismic Signals Reveal Explosives Were Used at the WTC on 9/11 > http://911blogger.com/news/2010-06-08/seismic-signals-reveal-explosives-were-used-wtc-911-0

Metallurgical Examination of WTC Steel Suggests Explosives > http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/metallurgy/index.html

[Dishevelled Den]

This has been an interesting thread about one of the most calculated attacks on a western civilian target in recent times.

There have been many arguments - some plausible many not - about this tragedy being conceived as a result of a power-crazed administration deciding to murder it's own citizens en-masse in the manic pursuit of a Machiavellian political strategy.

Is it reasonable to accept that the complex planning required for all these acts – and their implementation - could have been carried out without anyone becoming aware of what was going on through accidental discovery or leak of information?

The number of those required to have been involved, the infrastructure from the highest echelons of government downwards and the split-second timing necessary for this entire plan to come to fruition remains, in my mind, staggeringly unbelievable.

I'm with Lizzie and Nick on this one.