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[aaronjb]

I can only conclude you are very naive then CEM. If you think that if left to their own devices they wouldn't behave the way they have been, well then you're wrong.

They had the intention for disorder in the first place. The fact that the police are there trying to stop them doesn't create the intention in their heads.

As for your insinuation that the government control the media! I don't think so! Not in Britain!

Nah, that's ol' Rupe, everyone knows that 

[cem_devecioglu]

I can only conclude you are very naive then CEM. If you think that if left to their own devices they wouldn't behave the way they have been, well then you're wrong.

They had the intention for disorder in the first place. The fact that the police are there trying to stop them doesn't create the intention in their heads.

As for your insinuation that the government control the media! I don't think so! Not in Britain!

agreed .. govts mostly cant control the media except some countries like mine, however there are classes that even controls the govts..

[cem_devecioglu]

Cem - the policy is that they pay nothing while at university, but after they have finished, and start to earn above a reasonable level they start to pay something back.
Personally I think the policy is very flawed in several ways, but thats not the point. These people state that they want to bring down the government.

I'm afraid I agree with them 

Many of them are simply anarchists, nothing more nothing less.


imo problem not that simple..

The British media is notoriously left wing.

leftists never had the money to run media.. those are claiming only

[geoffr70]

Cem - the policy is that they pay nothing while at university, but after they have finished, and start to earn above a reasonable level they start to pay something back.
Personally I think the policy is very flawed in several ways, but thats not the point. These people state that they want to bring down the government.

I'm afraid I agree with them 

Many of them are simply anarchists, nothing more nothing less.


imo problem not that simple..

The British media is notoriously left wing.

leftists never had the money to run media.. those are claiming only

If you agree with them about bringing down the government, I think you should never be allowed into Britain as you could be deemed as a threat to national security.

I happen to think Turkey shouldn't in a million years be allowed in the EU for their atrocious record on human rights and the ongoing crime of the invasion of Cyprus. This is alot worse than what you allege the police to have done.

[Dishevelled Den]

Well this has been enlightening.

Unlike many here I've policed in a lot of violent protests when I was in uniform - all, for the most part, much worse in terms of outright violence than those we have been discussing here.

I can say with the certainty of experience that video reports or eye witness accounts of such occurrences seldom chime with what actually happens.

Insofar as the present disturbances are concerned people have the right to protest their grievances but when they overstep the mark the police must attempt to restore and maintain order.

There will always be circumstances when police officers overstep their authority - it's inevitable in these volatile situations but when they do, there are procedures in place to more than adequately deal with their transgressions.

In the main it’s a trade off between allowing legitimate protest and maintaining the basic structures of good order - it's a difficult but very necessary task during which many people run the risk of injury.

On a final note, the reality of such violence lingers long after the protagonists have grown up and joined the salaried ranks of contemporary society.

I have had two surgical procedures this year to correct injuries I received during disturbances in the late 70’s, so there is always a price to pay for ensuring that people have the right to protest.

Sadly that price is usually paid (in greater numbers) by those who are charged with keeping order.

[millwall]

Well this has been enlightening.

Unlike many here I've policed in a lot of violent protests when I was in uniform - all, for the most part, much worse in terms of outright violence than those we have been discussing here.

I can say with the certainty of experience that video reports or eye witness accounts of such occurrences seldom chime with what actually happens.

Insofar as the present disturbances are concerned people have the right to protest their grievances but when they overstep the mark the police must attempt to restore and maintain order.

There will always be circumstances when police officers overstep their authority - it's inevitable in these volatile situations but when they do, there are procedures in place to more than adequately deal with their transgressions.

In the main it’s a trade off between allowing legitimate protest and maintaining the basic structures of good order - it's a difficult but very necessary task during which many people run the risk of injury.

On a final note, the reality of such violence lingers long after the protagonists have grown up and joined the salaried ranks of contemporary society.

I have had two surgical procedures this year to correct injuries I received during disturbances in the late 70’s, so there is always a price to pay for ensuring that people have the right to protest.

Sadly that price is usually paid (in greater numbers) by those who are charged with keeping order.

sadly some people dont understand that  the old bill are not in the wrong here  no riot = no students getting hurt

[cem_devecioglu]

Cem - the policy is that they pay nothing while at university, but after they have finished, and start to earn above a reasonable level they start to pay something back.
Personally I think the policy is very flawed in several ways, but thats not the point. These people state that they want to bring down the government.

I'm afraid I agree with them 

Many of them are simply anarchists, nothing more nothing less.


imo problem not that simple..

The British media is notoriously left wing.

leftists never had the money to run media.. those are claiming only

If you agree with them about bringing down the government, I think you should never be allowed into Britain as you could be deemed as a threat to national security.

  thanks for the kind words..


I happen to think Turkey shouldn't in a million years be allowed in the EU

agreed.. and anyway no worries EU wont accept which I also prefer..

for their atrocious record on human rights and the ongoing crime of the invasion of Cyprus.

that subject being unrelated and very detailed, better to discuss in another thread imo..  however at that point I must note that looking for the historical events who invaded where with what rights is a highly debatable subject..




 This is alot worse than what you allege the police to have done.

[Amigo]

Can Turk and CEM enlighten us as to their opinions on the police sustaining injuries, the criminal damage being caused and whether or not they support or condemn any of the violence in these protests? Also, what would you have done to a protestor who defaces or disrespects a war monument in anyway?

We are discussing the actions of a police officer who ran past another officer, already calmly aproaching the issue, in order to tip a disabled person from their wheelchair.
Let's to stick to the topic folks. It's all too easy for a thread to go off on a totally different subject 

All the 'other topics' mentioned should be dealt with to the full extent of the law. Acting like a 'uniformed thug' is not going to help.

My comment is in no way off topic, how clear can i make it?

:-/ Other than the 'My comment is in no way off topic' you have no comment quoted above. 

I thought i made myself quite clear but if you insist....I'm sick to death of paying the police (not thier fault) to deal with a bunch of ungrateful miscreants who should be studying or attending lectures but instead in thier misguided beliefs keep our police from catching paedophiles, rapists & the like.
    What matters most to you?

Ah right, that comment.  No use asking 'How clear can I make it ?' when you've not 'quoted' the comment in question. 

Yep, that's a fair e'nuff. Somehow I don't think a survey would reveal too many tax payers that were happy about footing that bill, or it's effect on other issues.   

Turk you should be a politician. You keep asking me what i'm saying, i repeat it clearly over & over again but yet you keep telling me i'm not quoting? What exactly do you want me to quote? I can't say any more without repeating myself yet again.
  Ask me a straight question & i'll give you a straight answer otherwise wind your neck in & stop messing about.!!!

[Vamps]

I am not getting into this argument but a few days ago there was a thread that suggested almost violent approach the the protesters, and being disabled does not give privileges, after all we have fought for years for equal opportunities.....

I am in no way commenting on the origins of this post simply making an observation, however I have seen the need for 3 police officers to restrain a similar abled person from killing, or at the very least hurting, with a knife, his father....so lets not get too goody goody.....

[Banjax]

Cem - the policy is that they pay nothing while at university, but after they have finished, and start to earn above a reasonable level they start to pay something back.
Personally I think the policy is very flawed in several ways, but thats not the point. These people state that they want to bring down the government. Many of them are simply anarchists, nothing more nothing less.

The British media is notoriously left wing.

highlight of the debate so far 




do you want to list these "left-wing" media establishments Albs? I didnt realise the Morning Star and Socialist Worker were so influential 


if you're referring to the beeb I'll point out again that the beeb bent over backwards to give the police point of view - seemed very balanced to me 

you attack Cem for seeking a conspiracy and yet you have this notion that the world is run by some invisible left-wing media agenda, invisible to everyone but you and a few swivel-eyed loonballs.

and as far as your post: "but you seem determined to find a conspiracy in any situation, and wont let facts get in the way of the train of thought you have already decided to take"

a touch of the pot and kettle perhaps? I've never once read a thread on the OOF without knowing exactly where you'll stand on it - you're the very definition of intractable Albs, in my opinion.

I value and look forward to reading you're posts tho, as I do Cems - I find it interesting to hear what people outside the UK think on different subjects and Cem is a witty, engaging and intelligent fellow - yes he has a different take on many subjects.....but isn't that a good thing? 

[cem_devecioglu]

Cem - the policy is that they pay nothing while at university, but after they have finished, and start to earn above a reasonable level they start to pay something back.
Personally I think the policy is very flawed in several ways, but thats not the point. These people state that they want to bring down the government. Many of them are simply anarchists, nothing more nothing less.

The British media is notoriously left wing.

highlight of the debate so far 




do you want to list these "left-wing" media establishments Albs? I didnt realise the Morning Star and Socialist Worker were so influential 


if you're referring to the beeb I'll point out again that the beeb bent over backwards to give the police point of view - seemed very balanced to me 

you attack Cem for seeking a conspiracy and yet you have this notion that the world is run by some invisible left-wing media agenda, invisible to everyone but you and a few swivel-eyed loonballs.

and as far as your post: "but you seem determined to find a conspiracy in any situation, and wont let facts get in the way of the train of thought you have already decided to take"

a touch of the pot and kettle perhaps? I've never once read a thread on the OOF without knowing exactly where you'll stand on it - you're the very definition of intractable Albs, in my opinion.

I value and look forward to reading you're posts tho, as I do Cems - I find it interesting to hear what people outside the UK think on different subjects and Cem is a witty, engaging and intelligent fellow - yes he has a different take on many subjects.....but isn't that a good thing? 

 

[Turk]

Can Turk and CEM enlighten us as to their opinions on the police sustaining injuries, the criminal damage being caused and whether or not they support or condemn any of the violence in these protests? Also, what would you have done to a protestor who defaces or disrespects a war monument in anyway?

We are discussing the actions of a police officer who ran past another officer, already calmly aproaching the issue, in order to tip a disabled person from their wheelchair.
Let's to stick to the topic folks. It's all too easy for a thread to go off on a totally different subject 

All the 'other topics' mentioned should be dealt with to the full extent of the law. Acting like a 'uniformed thug' is not going to help.

My comment is in no way off topic, how clear can i make it?

:-/ Other than the 'My comment is in no way off topic' you have no comment quoted above. 

I thought i made myself quite clear but if you insist....I'm sick to death of paying the police (not thier fault) to deal with a bunch of ungrateful miscreants who should be studying or attending lectures but instead in thier misguided beliefs keep our police from catching paedophiles, rapists & the like.
    What matters most to you?

Ah right, that comment.  No use asking 'How clear can I make it ?' when you've not 'quoted' the comment in question. 

Yep, that's a fair e'nuff. Somehow I don't think a survey would reveal too many tax payers that were happy about footing that bill, or it's effect on other issues.   

Turk you should be a politician. You keep asking me what i'm saying, i repeat it clearly over & over again but yet you keep telling me i'm not quoting? What exactly do you want me to quote? I can't say any more without repeating myself yet again.
  Ask me a straight question & i'll give you a straight answer otherwise wind your neck in & stop messing about.!!!

My boss says that too !!

You posted the 'My comment is in no way off topic, how clear can i make it? yet you hadn't included the comment you were refering to in the 'previous quoted' until after I indicated your ommission. It's no use saying 'i repeat it clearly over & over again' when you didn't add the initial comment you were refering to.   
(And anyway, get off yer high horse.   I was just trying to clarify exactly what folk are saying, rather than just briefly glancing over a posting without really taking things in, as if I had more interest in posting my own tuppence worth.)
   
Just to clarify, I have been known to refer to the stereotypical, charity shop dressed, fifteen straws sharing one pint of Strongbow, 'look at us, we're poor students', as 'lazy, free loading, soap dodgers'.
 
All I'm saying here is that one thug that's managed to get into a uniform has let the force down again. 
The video shows an officer within feet of McIntyre, calmly walking over to deal with things, when the idiot officer runs from way behind to tip McIntyre from his wheelchair and drag him across the road.

I doubt the protestors planned for that to happen as the camera pans away until someone alerts the camera holder to what has happened to the disabled man.
Ideal publicity...and the 'student' just had to sit there and do nothing !! 
Personally I doubt there should or will be any serious action against the officer, but I bet his superiors and colleagues have asked him 'What the hell were you thinking ??'

[mrgreen]

well i may as well put my two tuppance in, can someone explain to me what this poor lad in the wheelchair was doing in the front line of this protest which handicapped or not even he should have realised had turned violent, where was his brother then or did he just release him as a missile!! i have absolutely no sympathy for him he is an agitator and if he didn't want to be treated as one then he shouldn't have been there. when i was a lad every new years eve the police would have to suit up in their riot gear to clear the beach of drunken teens and you knew if you wanted a beating you join the front line if you don't you go home, same thing applies here if you can't protest peacefully then don't every action has a reaction and whilst pulling him from his chair is deemed heavy handed what the hell is the difference than being dragged able bodied from the street? once again no sympathy and hats off to the police they needed to regain control and that's all they were doing. A few weeks ago some straw wearing protesters were having a sit down on the railway lines stopping a train of atomic waste and as they sat there they removed the ballast from under the track, now if i were the police i would have arrested every single one of them caught doing this but no the call went up police were heavy handed moving them on blah blah blah the police have a job to do and i support them 100 percent and don't see this as heavy handed in the bit maybe if they had let down his tyres that would have been a bit mean!!!

[bluey]

As I haven't seen anyone else publish this link, here is an eye-witness account concerning the Met and Jody MacIntyre.

http://www.mitchell-images.com/#/jody-mcintyre/4546538655

By the way, the young lad can walk.  He managed all the stairs to the top of Milbank last November, which ain't bad seeing as it's nine floors....

[Dishevelled Den]

As I haven't seen anyone else publish this link, here is an eye-witness account concerning the Met and Jody MacIntyre.

http://www.mitchell-images.com/#/jody-mcintyre/4546538655

By the way, the young lad can walk.  He managed all the stairs to the top of Milbank last November, which ain't bad seeing as it's nine floors....

That's a great link Blue   I think it fair to say that there is always a lot more to these situations than immediately apparent.

The photographs contained in the other tabs show just how difficult is to police mass demonstrations with any degree of sensitivity.