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[Nickbat]

apart from all the discussion subject, scientifically, a full stomach doesnt mean you have good nutrition..

yes, I can fill my stomach with water and bread, like many do (here I must say I see around many people even with relatively good salaries dont have good nutrition as a well balanced nutrition costs serious sums here and those people dont like to spend all of their money for kitchen ) but this dont solve the problem..

so, in my opinion world leading groups must bite the bullet and take the decision.. there must be serious limitations and regulations about population growth..

we are not simple creatures like a bacteria, and we cant and must not live like them..

humans need proper food, proper facilities, proper living area and a life standard.. or else we will kill each other like we do now ..

Huh?

UN regulations governing the number of children you may have? How? Forced sterilisations? Automatic state-imposed abortions? Mandatory euthanasia for anyone thought to have outgrown their usefulness?

I wouldn't want to be part of that fascist future, thanks.     

Just like China, I suppose - one child per family. Unless you're rich and then you can just pay the fines and/or buy children from families who've had one too many. The communist utopia where ... money rules?

Oh and that's forgetting the families who kill their own children before registering their birth in order to keep trying for a boy (leading to few women and many men).

Yep, I think I'm with you there, Nickbat.

I'm curious if your population exceeds 10⁹ what laws your country will make and how you force people to stop .. :-/

You cannot "force people to stop" without sterilising them or killing them. Neither would be acceptable.

EDIT: Of course, there is the question of stricter immigration control to ensure that such a situation does not arise, but that is a policy which is taboo. 

[cem_devecioglu]

apart from all the discussion subject, scientifically, a full stomach doesnt mean you have good nutrition..

yes, I can fill my stomach with water and bread, like many do (here I must say I see around many people even with relatively good salaries dont have good nutrition as a well balanced nutrition costs serious sums here and those people dont like to spend all of their money for kitchen ) but this dont solve the problem..

so, in my opinion world leading groups must bite the bullet and take the decision.. there must be serious limitations and regulations about population growth..

we are not simple creatures like a bacteria, and we cant and must not live like them..

humans need proper food, proper facilities, proper living area and a life standard.. or else we will kill each other like we do now ..

Huh?

UN regulations governing the number of children you may have? How? Forced sterilisations? Automatic state-imposed abortions? Mandatory euthanasia for anyone thought to have outgrown their usefulness?

I wouldn't want to be part of that fascist future, thanks.     

Just like China, I suppose - one child per family. Unless you're rich and then you can just pay the fines and/or buy children from families who've had one too many. The communist utopia where ... money rules?

Oh and that's forgetting the families who kill their own children before registering their birth in order to keep trying for a boy (leading to few women and many men).

Yep, I think I'm with you there, Nickbat.

I'm curious if your population exceeds 10⁹ what laws your country will make and how you force people to stop .. :-/

You cannot "force people to stop" without sterilising them or killing them. Neither would be acceptable.

EDIT: Of course, there is the question of stricter immigration control to ensure that such a situation does not arise, but that is a policy which is taboo. 

yeah.. let them populate like rabbits and all of us starve to death together..

human freedom is not endless. has the limits where it starts to harm others freedom.. we have one world so we must live on it without disturbing/harming others..

[cem_devecioglu]

my neighbour has 3 grown up kids.. one is married and now living together the family and has one baby..so this makes up of totalling 7 persons in home..

father works day time, boy works at nights.. he comes home nearl  2 30 - 3 00 am.. makes many noises..sometimes they use the washing machine at 3 am.. and they then sleep until next day afternoon (except father) .. as you can guess many nights they wake me up and dont let me sleep..


oh , thats my good neighbour.. the others,     

[Dishevelled Den]

EDIT: Of course, there is the question of stricter immigration control to ensure that such a situation does not arise, but that is a policy which is taboo. 

I don't see why this should be a taboo subject.

It seems to me that there is no sensible policy within this country to control immigration - we are an island nation and one would think that this fact would give us a head start on controlling those who wish to visit here for whatever purpose.

Once again we have ceded power to an unelected cadre of individuals within a quasi democratic regime, and in this case are bound by directive to admit people, without question, from the member states.

This all seems very unsatisfactory to me.  A sensible policy will admit people who have a talent to exploit, people who will benefit the nation and our economy not those who will be a drain on our benefits/social system.

The sooner we get a grip on this issue the better as if left in this directionless limbo, many problems are being stored - problems that we shouldn't have to face and problems which will be much more difficult to deal with given the masses of those immigrants already within these borders.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

EDIT: Of course, there is the question of stricter immigration control to ensure that such a situation does not arise, but that is a policy which is taboo. 

I don't see why this should be a taboo subject.

It seems to me that there is no sensible policy within this country to control immigration - we are an island nation and one would think that this fact would give us a head start on controlling those who wish to visit here for whatever purpose.

Once again we have ceded power to an unelected cadre of individuals within a quasi democratic regime, and in this case are bound by directive to admit people, without question, from the member states.

This all seems very unsatisfactory to me.  A sensible policy will admit people who have a talent to exploit, people who will benefit the nation and our economy not those who will be a drain on our benefits/social system.

The sooner we get a grip on this issue the better as if left in this directionless limbo, many problems are being stored - problems that we shouldn't have to face and problems which will be much more difficult to deal with given the masses of those immigrants already within these borders.

Agreed ZL!

................and of course the more will build on land to provide housing for our expanding population, the less usable land we will have for growing any of our own food

[cem_devecioglu]

EDIT: Of course, there is the question of stricter immigration control to ensure that such a situation does not arise, but that is a policy which is taboo. 

I don't see why this should be a taboo subject.

It seems to me that there is no sensible policy within this country to control immigration - we are an island nation and one would think that this fact would give us a head start on controlling those who wish to visit here for whatever purpose.

Once again we have ceded power to an unelected cadre of individuals within a quasi democratic regime, and in this case are bound by directive to admit people, without question, from the member states.

This all seems very unsatisfactory to me.  A sensible policy will admit people who have a talent to exploit, people who will benefit the nation and our economy not those who will be a drain on our benefits/social system.

The sooner we get a grip on this issue the better as if left in this directionless limbo, many problems are being stored - problems that we shouldn't have to face and problems which will be much more difficult to deal with given the masses of those immigrants already within these borders.

actually its has a direction Zulu.. What the ruling bosses think of behind their mind but abstain from spelling it in front of masses.. they want so many worker slaves who are starving and ready for work, day and night just for few pennies..

[Nickbat]

EDIT: Of course, there is the question of stricter immigration control to ensure that such a situation does not arise, but that is a policy which is taboo. 

I don't see why this should be a taboo subject.

It seems to me that there is no sensible policy within this country to control immigration - we are an island nation and one would think that this fact would give us a head start on controlling those who wish to visit here for whatever purpose.

Once again we have ceded power to an unelected cadre of individuals within a quasi democratic regime, and in this case are bound by directive to admit people, without question, from the member states.

This all seems very unsatisfactory to me.  A sensible policy will admit people who have a talent to exploit, people who will benefit the nation and our economy not those who will be a drain on our benefits/social system.

The sooner we get a grip on this issue the better as if left in this directionless limbo, many problems are being stored - problems that we shouldn't have to face and problems which will be much more difficult to deal with given the masses of those immigrants already within these borders.

Spot on, Z.

It shouldn't be taboo but, as soon as anyone mentions it in the mainstream media, they are labelled as racist. 

[Banjax]

wouldn't it be better to have an anmesty on all the illegal immigrants living and working in the UK? they're doing jobs without which places in the UK - especially London would simply grind to a halt, theyre the invisible oil in the machine. get them on the books and paying taxes, deportation would be a shortsighted and expensive travesty

[Varche]

EDIT: Of course, there is the question of stricter immigration control to ensure that such a situation does not arise, but that is a policy which is taboo. 

I don't see why this should be a taboo subject.

It seems to me that there is no sensible policy within this country to control immigration - we are an island nation and one would think that this fact would give us a head start on controlling those who wish to visit here for whatever purpose.

Once again we have ceded power to an unelected cadre of individuals within a quasi democratic regime, and in this case are bound by directive to admit people, without question, from the member states.

This all seems very unsatisfactory to me.  A sensible policy will admit people who have a talent to exploit, people who will benefit the nation and our economy not those who will be a drain on our benefits/social system.

The sooner we get a grip on this issue the better as if left in this directionless limbo, many problems are being stored - problems that we shouldn't have to face and problems which will be much more difficult to deal with given the masses of those immigrants already within these borders.

Agreed ZL!

................and of course the more will build on land to provide housing for our expanding population, the less usable land we will have for growing any of our own food

Too late. We already grow hardly any of the food eaten in Britain due to daft housewife preferences (i.e. want all types of foods throughout the year and apparently at the lowest price possible). Hence why you eat tasteless Spanish greenhouse grown toms at Xmas and drink French Milk etc etc.

Plenty of space for new towns in Scotland and Wales. Perhaps Bannjax could nominate some suitable sites (not on flood plains) 

[Banjax]

EDIT: Of course, there is the question of stricter immigration control to ensure that such a situation does not arise, but that is a policy which is taboo. 

I don't see why this should be a taboo subject.

It seems to me that there is no sensible policy within this country to control immigration - we are an island nation and one would think that this fact would give us a head start on controlling those who wish to visit here for whatever purpose.

Once again we have ceded power to an unelected cadre of individuals within a quasi democratic regime, and in this case are bound by directive to admit people, without question, from the member states.

This all seems very unsatisfactory to me.  A sensible policy will admit people who have a talent to exploit, people who will benefit the nation and our economy not those who will be a drain on our benefits/social system.

The sooner we get a grip on this issue the better as if left in this directionless limbo, many problems are being stored - problems that we shouldn't have to face and problems which will be much more difficult to deal with given the masses of those immigrants already within these borders.

Agreed ZL!

................and of course the more will build on land to provide housing for our expanding population, the less usable land we will have for growing any of our own food

Too late. We already grow hardly any of the food eaten in Britain due to daft housewife preferences (i.e. want all types of foods throughout the year and apparently at the lowest price possible). Hence why you eat tasteless Spanish greenhouse grown toms at Xmas and drink French Milk etc etc.

Plenty of space for new towns in Scotland and Wales. Perhaps Bannjax could nominate some suitable sites (not on flood plains) 

absolutely millions of acres of empty land up here - all welcome to come and spend money.....even the English 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

EDIT: Of course, there is the question of stricter immigration control to ensure that such a situation does not arise, but that is a policy which is taboo. 

I don't see why this should be a taboo subject.

It seems to me that there is no sensible policy within this country to control immigration - we are an island nation and one would think that this fact would give us a head start on controlling those who wish to visit here for whatever purpose.

Once again we have ceded power to an unelected cadre of individuals within a quasi democratic regime, and in this case are bound by directive to admit people, without question, from the member states.

This all seems very unsatisfactory to me.  A sensible policy will admit people who have a talent to exploit, people who will benefit the nation and our economy not those who will be a drain on our benefits/social system.

The sooner we get a grip on this issue the better as if left in this directionless limbo, many problems are being stored - problems that we shouldn't have to face and problems which will be much more difficult to deal with given the masses of those immigrants already within these borders.

Agreed ZL!

................and of course the more will build on land to provide housing for our expanding population, the less usable land we will have for growing any of our own food

Too late. We already grow hardly any of the food eaten in Britain due to daft housewife preferences (i.e. want all types of foods throughout the year and apparently at the lowest price possible). Hence why you eat tasteless Spanish greenhouse grown toms at Xmas and drink French Milk etc etc.

Plenty of space for new towns in Scotland and Wales. Perhaps Bannjax could nominate some suitable sites (not on flood plains) 

absolutely millions of acres of empty land up here - all welcome to come and spend money.....even the English 

I did say "usable" land BJ, that which is suitable for growing crops with good yields.  As far as I am aware the Scottish Highlands, and for that matter the wilds of the mountains of Wales are not of adequate quality for this use, hence cows and sheep fill the views

[Banjax]

if grass can grow, so can crops - wheres your pioneer spirit Lizzie 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

if grass can grow, so can crops - wheres your pioneer spirit Lizzie 

Here in the warmer South BJ, where no midgies bite in formations, and grapes even grow!

[albitz]

wouldn't it be better to have an anmesty on all the illegal immigrants living and working in the UK? they're doing jobs without which places in the UK - especially London would simply grind to a halt, theyre the invisible oil in the machine. get them on the books and paying taxes, deportation would be a shortsighted and expensive travesty

1. No - why reward criminals ? and if we reward these criminals, why not reward all criminals.
2. This is Gaurdianista nonsense. How did the country manage to get by until 12 or so years ago when this huge influx began ?
I have had a gang of Eastern Europeans fitting a new kitchen in my house since early December and they still havent finished.The level of skill has been appalling, the care (or lack of it) taken has been shocking, the job has been subbed by the landlord to a kitchen company, who subbed the job to an agancy, who subbed the job to a fitting company, who subbed the job to self employed fitters. They have been back several times - including two days this week to basically remove and reinstall the kitchen, and they have at least one more visit to complete the job. They have left enough cupboards, worktops and other sundry items behind to almost fit another complete kitchen. So with everyone down the line taking a cut and the revisits to try to put their mess right, and the waste of materials involved I cannot see how they can possibly make money from this - unless the person paying for it is utterly inept (which they are), and doesnt really care what it costs - which they apparently dont.
Meanwhile, my brother in law, who has been a skilled carpenter for over 20 years cant get a days work no matter what, because he wont work for £50 a day. It would be much cheaper and easier to employ him to do the job properly once than employ cheap labour to take 4 times as long to do a shoddy job.
Perhaps Banjax, if jobs in your area start to be advertised in Polish only, as is sometimes the case down south you might feel a bit differently.

[Banjax]

wouldn't it be better to have an anmesty on all the illegal immigrants living and working in the UK? they're doing jobs without which places in the UK - especially London would simply grind to a halt, theyre the invisible oil in the machine. get them on the books and paying taxes, deportation would be a shortsighted and expensive travesty

1. No - why reward criminals ? and if we reward these criminals, why not reward all criminals.
2. This is Gaurdianista nonsense. How did the country manage to get by until 12 or so years ago when this huge influx began ?
I have had a gang of Eastern Europeans fitting a new kitchen in my house since early December and they still havent finished.The level of skill has been appalling, the care (or lack of it) taken has been shocking, the job has been subbed by the landlord to a kitchen company, who subbed the job to an agancy, who subbed the job to a fitting company, who subbed the job to self employed fitters. They have been back several times - including two days this week to basically remove and reinstall the kitchen, and they have at least one more visit to complete the job. They have left enough cupboards, worktops and other sundry items behind to almost fit another complete kitchen. So with everyone down the line taking a cut and the revisits to try to put their mess right, and the waste of materials involved I cannot see how they can possibly make money from this - unless the person paying for it is utterly inept (which they are), and doesnt really care what it costs - which they apparently dont.
Meanwhile, my brother in law, who has been a skilled carpenter for over 20 years cant get a days work no matter what, because he wont work for £50 a day. It would be much cheaper and easier to employ him to do the job properly once than employ cheap labour to take 4 times as long to do a shoddy job.
Perhaps Banjax, if jobs in your area start to be advertised in Polish only, as is sometimes the case down south you might feel a bit differently.

not quite sure the point you're making, its a free market economy if you're brother is pricing himself out of it thats capitilism isnt it? i'm not sure them being Polish is why its a shoddy job, you mean to say you've never had poor work done by a Brit?

funnily enough there is a large Polish community in Perth, a legacy from WW2 when many were stationed here fighting with us