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[Mysteryman]

Similar, as it involves animal cruelty, but different.

I can't elaborate much here, for obvious reasons:

Two of my wifes staff went on a home visit this afternoon. They came back traumatised by the filth and signs of neglect they had found, both to the children and the pet dog.
Social care and the RSPCA were informed. The RSPCA sent an officer round within the hour. Social care said they didn't have the resources and would respond in due course.

Australia looks nice, if somewhat damp.

[RobG]

Similar, as it involves animal cruelty, but different.

I can't elaborate much here, for obvious reasons:

Two of my wifes staff went on a home visit this afternoon. They came back traumatised by the filth and signs of neglect they had found, both to the children and the pet dog.
Social care and the RSPCA were informed. The RSPCA sent an officer round within the hour. Social care said they didn't have the resources and would respond in due course.
Australia looks nice, if somewhat damp.

Par for the course Steve, sadly

[Debs.]

Similar, as it involves animal cruelty, but different.

I can't elaborate much here, for obvious reasons:

Two of my wifes staff went on a home visit this afternoon. They came back traumatised by the filth and signs of neglect they had found, both to the children and the pet dog.
Social care and the RSPCA were informed. The RSPCA sent an officer round within the hour. Social care said they didn't have the resources and would respond in due course.

Australia looks nice, if somewhat damp.

I remain firmly convinced that given the generally higher birthrate that seems to favour 'certain' base-sections of our society (fact: brighter/more-able/altruistic people tend to have smaller families) the eventual outcome for Britain will be a "lowest common denominator" amoral society........it may take several generations but 'they' will win.

I never thought I`d live to see the practical appeal of eugenics!

[PhilRich]

Bloody Hell Steve, I sincerely hope that post is tongue in cheek & not the Gods Honest Truth?!!  :-/

[henryd]

Bloody Hell Steve, I sincerely hope that post is tongue in cheek & not the Gods Honest Truth?!!  :-/

Bloody sad isn't it, pets sorted but the kids have to wait

[Mysteryman]

Bloody Hell Steve, I sincerely hope that post is tongue in cheek & not the Gods Honest Truth?!!  :-/

I don't do tongue-in-cheek where kids are concerned Phil.

[PhilRich]

Well then that is bloody diabolical! someone needs their arse kicked >:(very hard!

[Mysteryman]

Well then that is bloody diabolical! someone needs their arse kicked >:(very hard!

I'm araid that you are deluded if you think that is anything but the norm in large cities Phil.

The workload and the 'targets' got too much for all the experienced social workers long ago. The poor kids that do the job now get a weeks training and are sent out. A lot of them end up 'on the sick'.

[Entwood]

Not unsurprising unfortunately ... see this quite often at work ... SS / Probation claiming "understaffing" .. RSPCA willing to actually do the job first then argue about "rules" later.

Says a lot about our "civil servants" .. and yes ...  SS workers ARE civil servants.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

The only saving feature of this is at least now we have Social Services, good or bad.

Cruelty to children, and animals, is as old as time itself.  It is not that long ago relatively speaking that 5 year olds would have to crawl through the looms of our great industries, or all the other horrors of the (Great?)  Victorian Age were being exposed by Charles Dickens, with multi-family occupation of small one bedroom homes. People suspected of 'simple' crime, like stealing a loaf of bread, could be flogged, transported, or hung. Animals were also being flogged to death hauling unbearable loads, and dogs kicked from one street to another.  It was a very cruel society, but that is how it was.

Now even small acts of cruely to both children and animals are repulsive to us, and much law making has been done to implement controls, along with procedures, to tackle the problems.  We have advanced no matter what at times we think after reading cases in the media.  We generally care now, with only a relatively small percentage of society who still carryout sub-human acts.  These people are the ones that have now got to be stopped.

However, never forget it was far worse, with limited care expressed by society.   Today it is an improving situation, not a declining one, although with a rising population numerically more cases will no doubt come to light

[Mysteryman]

The only saving feature of this is at least now we have Social Services, good or bad.

Cruelty to children, and animals, is as old as time itself.  It is not that long ago relatively speaking that 5 year olds would have to crawl through the looms of our great industries, or all the other horrors of the (Great?)  Victorian Age were being exposed by Charles Dickens, with multi-family occupation of small one bedroom homes. People suspected of 'simple' crime, like stealing a loaf of bread, could be flogged, transported, or hung. Animals were also being flogged to death hauling unbearable loads, and dogs kicked from one street to another.  It was a very cruel society, but that is how it was.

Now even small acts of cruely to both children and animals are repulsive to us, and much law making has been done to implement controls, along with procedures, to tackle the problems.  We have advanced no matter what at times we think after reading cases in the media.  We generally care now, with only a relatively small percentage of society who still carryout sub-human acts.  These people are the ones that have now got to be stopped.

However, never forget it was far worse, with limited care expressed by society.   Today it is an improving situation, not a declining one, although with a rising population numerically more cases will no doubt come to light

Some of that is true, some is twaddle. I, for one, would like to go back in time. Then, at least, we could hang the b@st@rds.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

The only saving feature of this is at least now we have Social Services, good or bad.

Cruelty to children, and animals, is as old as time itself.  It is not that long ago relatively speaking that 5 year olds would have to crawl through the looms of our great industries, or all the other horrors of the (Great?)  Victorian Age were being exposed by Charles Dickens, with multi-family occupation of small one bedroom homes. People suspected of 'simple' crime, like stealing a loaf of bread, could be flogged, transported, or hung. Animals were also being flogged to death hauling unbearable loads, and dogs kicked from one street to another.  It was a very cruel society, but that is how it was.

Now even small acts of cruely to both children and animals are repulsive to us, and much law making has been done to implement controls, along with procedures, to tackle the problems.  We have advanced no matter what at times we think after reading cases in the media.  We generally care now, with only a relatively small percentage of society who still carryout sub-human acts.  These people are the ones that have now got to be stopped.

However, never forget it was far worse, with limited care expressed by society.   Today it is an improving situation, not a declining one, although with a rising population numerically more cases will no doubt come to light

Some of that is true, some is twaddle. I, for one, would like to go back in time. Then, at least, we could hang the b@st@rds.

What is Steve? :-/ :-/

[Mysteryman]

The only saving feature of this is at least now we have Social Services, good or bad.

Cruelty to children, and animals, is as old as time itself.  It is not that long ago relatively speaking that 5 year olds would have to crawl through the looms of our great industries, or all the other horrors of the (Great?)  Victorian Age were being exposed by Charles Dickens, with multi-family occupation of small one bedroom homes. People suspected of 'simple' crime, like stealing a loaf of bread, could be flogged, transported, or hung. Animals were also being flogged to death hauling unbearable loads, and dogs kicked from one street to another.  It was a very cruel society, but that is how it was.

Now even small acts of cruely to both children and animals are repulsive to us, and much law making has been done to implement controls, along with procedures, to tackle the problems.  We have advanced no matter what at times we think after reading cases in the media.  We generally care now, with only a relatively small percentage of society who still carryout sub-human acts.  These people are the ones that have now got to be stopped.

However, never forget it was far worse, with limited care expressed by society.   Today it is an improving situation, not a declining one, although with a rising population numerically more cases will no doubt come to light

Some of that is true, some is twaddle. I, for one, would like to go back in time. Then, at least, we could hang the b@st@rds.

What is Steve? :-/ :-/

I don't want to enter into a discussion really Lizzie, it depresses me. I don't know where you are getting your info from. I can understand the historical perspective, and you are probably more knowledgeable than me in that department. But, let me assure you, from first-hand knowledge, it is not an improving situation, quite the opposite.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

The only saving feature of this is at least now we have Social Services, good or bad.

Cruelty to children, and animals, is as old as time itself.  It is not that long ago relatively speaking that 5 year olds would have to crawl through the looms of our great industries, or all the other horrors of the (Great?)  Victorian Age were being exposed by Charles Dickens, with multi-family occupation of small one bedroom homes. People suspected of 'simple' crime, like stealing a loaf of bread, could be flogged, transported, or hung. Animals were also being flogged to death hauling unbearable loads, and dogs kicked from one street to another.  It was a very cruel society, but that is how it was.

Now even small acts of cruely to both children and animals are repulsive to us, and much law making has been done to implement controls, along with procedures, to tackle the problems.  We have advanced no matter what at times we think after reading cases in the media.  We generally care now, with only a relatively small percentage of society who still carryout sub-human acts.  These people are the ones that have now got to be stopped.

However, never forget it was far worse, with limited care expressed by society.   Today it is an improving situation, not a declining one, although with a rising population numerically more cases will no doubt come to light

Some of that is true, some is twaddle. I, for one, would like to go back in time. Then, at least, we could hang the b@st@rds.

What is Steve? :-/ :-/

I don't want to enter into a discussion really Lizzie, it depresses me. I don't know where you are getting your info from. I can understand the historical perspective, and you are probably more knowledgeable than me in that department. But, let me assure you, from first-hand knowledge, it is not an improving situation, quite the opposite.

Fair enough Steve, I can quiet understand as I know during my Police and CPS work, let alone general living around some deprived areas that some sights are best not described, and can be really upsetting.  Obviously when children are involved it can become terrible. When you witness for yourself a family consisting of 5 very young children and babies walking around rooms littered with dog and human excrement, dirty nappies, stale food, then eating off the same floors you know it is not right!  Social Services stepped in and put those children into care.  That is not the only case of course, and I could probably take someone to a few other homes in a bad state.

However Steve, it was worse believe it not two hundred years ago.  My information is from many academic historical sources over many years, including these books in particular:
Daunton, M.J. Progress and Poverty An Economic and Social History of Britain 1700 - 1850 Oxford University Press (1995)
Chase, M Chartism A New History Manchester University Press (2007)
Brown, R. Society and Economy in Modern Britain 1700 - 1850 Routledge (2002)
Mathias, P. The First Industrial Nation 2nd Ed. Methuen (1983)
Timmins,G & King,S Making Sense of the Industrial Revolution Manchester University Press (2001)

I obviously do not want to distress anyone with extracts and further information of some very dark times, which included cruel child labour in unsuitable industry, without any education.  But on the subject of housing and the appalling conditions of the Victorian past let me quote in full the following:

During a visit to the Lancashire, Yorkshire, and Midland textile industrial areas in 1842, Mr. William Cooke-Taylor noted in Bolton:
"In all I visited eighty-three [yes 83!!] dwellings, selected at hazard.  They were destitute of furniture save old boxes for tables, and stools, or even large stones, for chairs; the beds were composed of straw and shavings, sometimes with torn pieces of carpet or packing canvass for covering and sometimes without any kind of covering whatever.  The food was oatmeal and water for breakfast, flour and water with a little skimmed milk for dinner; oatmeal and water again for a third supply, with those who went through the form of eating three meals a-day.....I was an eye-witness to children appeasing the cravings of the stomach by the refuse of decayed vegetables in the root-market" Timmins & King p.57 (2001)

Yes, today things may not be ideal, but they are better than in the past.

[Mysteryman]

The only saving feature of this is at least now we have Social Services, good or bad.

Cruelty to children, and animals, is as old as time itself.  It is not that long ago relatively speaking that 5 year olds would have to crawl through the looms of our great industries, or all the other horrors of the (Great?)  Victorian Age were being exposed by Charles Dickens, with multi-family occupation of small one bedroom homes. People suspected of 'simple' crime, like stealing a loaf of bread, could be flogged, transported, or hung. Animals were also being flogged to death hauling unbearable loads, and dogs kicked from one street to another.  It was a very cruel society, but that is how it was.

Now even small acts of cruely to both children and animals are repulsive to us, and much law making has been done to implement controls, along with procedures, to tackle the problems.  We have advanced no matter what at times we think after reading cases in the media.  We generally care now, with only a relatively small percentage of society who still carryout sub-human acts.  These people are the ones that have now got to be stopped.

However, never forget it was far worse, with limited care expressed by society.   Today it is an improving situation, not a declining one, although with a rising population numerically more cases will no doubt come to light

Some of that is true, some is twaddle. I, for one, would like to go back in time. Then, at least, we could hang the b@st@rds.

What is Steve? :-/ :-/

I don't want to enter into a discussion really Lizzie, it depresses me. I don't know where you are getting your info from. I can understand the historical perspective, and you are probably more knowledgeable than me in that department. But, let me assure you, from first-hand knowledge, it is not an improving situation, quite the opposite.

Fair enough Steve, I can quiet understand as I know during my Police and CPS work, let alone general living around some deprived areas that some sights are best not described, and can be really upsetting.  Obviously when children are involved it can become terrible. When you witness for yourself a family consisting of 5 very young children and babies walking around rooms littered with dog and human excrement, dirty nappies, stale food, then eating off the same floors you know it is not right!  Social Services stepped in and put those children into care.  That is not the only case of course, and I could probably take someone to a few other homes in a bad state.

However Steve, it was worse believe it not two hundred years ago.  My information is from many academic historical sources over many years, including these books in particular:
Daunton, M.J. Progress and Poverty An Economic and Social History of Britain 1700 - 1850 Oxford University Press (1995)
Chase, M Chartism A New History Manchester University Press (2007)
Brown, R. Society and Economy in Modern Britain 1700 - 1850 Routledge (2002)
Mathias, P. The First Industrial Nation 2nd Ed. Methuen (1983)
Timmins,G & King,S Making Sense of the Industrial Revolution Manchester University Press (2001)

I obviously do not want to distress anyone with extracts and further information of some very dark times, which included cruel child labour in unsuitable industry, without any education.  But on the subject of housing and the appalling conditions of the Victorian past let me quote in full the following:

During a visit to the Lancashire, Yorkshire, and Midland textile industrial areas in 1842, Mr. William Cooke-Taylor noted in Bolton:
"In all I visited eighty-three [yes 83!!] dwellings, selected at hazard.  They were destitute of furniture save old boxes for tables, and stools, or even large stones, for chairs; the beds were composed of straw and shavings, sometimes with torn pieces of carpet or packing canvass for covering and sometimes without any kind of covering whatever.  The food was oatmeal and water for breakfast, flour and water with a little skimmed milk for dinner; oatmeal and water again for a third supply, with those who went through the form of eating three meals a-day.....I was an eye-witness to children appeasing the cravings of the stomach by the refuse of decayed vegetables in the root-market" Timmins & King p.57 (2001)

Yes, today things may not be ideal, but they are better than in the past.

But not 'an improving situation', unless you want to take the whole of the last two hundred years as an example.

Take the last ten years as an example, it is getting worse.