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[cem_devecioglu]

News: Germany is closing its old nuclear power plants..

and will check whats left ..

That is pure panic setting in Cem!

PR - Public Relations-  will click in all over I reckon now Cem

Nuclear power is still very safe in all most parts of the world, especially the modern versions soon (we hope!!) to be rolled out across the UK.  Nothing else will give us the power we all need

tell this to the radiation cooked Japanese and Russians..

and after some time to the Turks

as I said earlier, if you play with fire no matter what precaution you apply, your hands will burn..

Whatever man does, in the absence of the technology to avoid it, is a risk. For instance, coal mining, burning fossil fuels, building the infrastrucure, and producing the goods we have used in the past, and to date, have killed millions, with TB and emphysema taking many of those during and post the British industrial revolution.  Many are still dying around the world due to 'unsafe' industrial processes across a whole range of industries. 

Lizzie, are you comparing nuclear radation with standard industrial risks :-? like mining or other..

I hope no..A nuclear power plant is actually a nuclear bomb exploding in a slowed fashion..And if for some reason you cant cool it becomes a real bomb..killing many  , poisoning a large area for some thousand years.. Can you imagine such a thing on your island..Human kind start to loose when they think they can beat nature and its forces..As prooven..



In comparison, with the exception of the terribly managed Chernobyl situation, how many have been killed by nuclear power generation in all Western countries put together? 

please check the list

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_and_radiation_accidents

how many people have to die for some to accept the danger..

 

No, nuclear power if the plants are constructed to modern standards, in geographically sound areas, maintained to the highest standards, and monitored properly by the world's nuclear agencies, is perfectly safe, and a lot safer, along with being highly efficient, compared to any other generating medium.

If we want the power,

simple,drop your energy requirements

we need nuclear power generation

[Lizzie_Zoom]

News: Germany is closing its old nuclear power plants..

and will check whats left ..

That is pure panic setting in Cem!

PR - Public Relations-  will click in all over I reckon now Cem

Nuclear power is still very safe in all most parts of the world, especially the modern versions soon (we hope!!) to be rolled out across the UK.  Nothing else will give us the power we all need

tell this to the radiation cooked Japanese and Russians..

and after some time to the Turks

as I said earlier, if you play with fire no matter what precaution you apply, your hands will burn..

Whatever man does, in the absence of the technology to avoid it, is a risk. For instance, coal mining, burning fossil fuels, building the infrastrucure, and producing the goods we have used in the past, and to date, have killed millions, with TB and emphysema taking many of those during and post the British industrial revolution.  Many are still dying around the world due to 'unsafe' industrial processes across a whole range of industries. 

Lizzie, are you comparing nuclear radation with standard industrial risks :-? like mining or other..

I hope no..A nuclear power plant is actually a nuclear bomb exploding in a slowed fashion..And if for some reason you cant cool it becomes a real bomb..killing many  , poisoning a large area for some thousand years.. Can you imagine such a thing on your island..Human kind start to loose when they think they can beat nature and its forces..As prooven..



In comparison, with the exception of the terribly managed Chernobyl situation, how many have been killed by nuclear power generation in all Western countries put together? 

please check the list

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_and_radiation_accidents

how many people have to die for some to accept the danger..

 

No, nuclear power if the plants are constructed to modern standards, in geographically sound areas, maintained to the highest standards, and monitored properly by the world's nuclear agencies, is perfectly safe, and a lot safer, along with being highly efficient, compared to any other generating medium.

If we want the power,

simple,drop your energy requirements

we need nuclear power generation

Firstly Cem, yes I am making comparisons, because both subjects are comparable in terms of mans quest to produce energy and goods to use.  History has taught us that man has taken risks every step of the way, and nuclear power is actually a far lesser risk than those taken before in terms of human fatalities.

The nuclear power generation may be similar to an atom bomb, but it is not the same and is controlled within an environment especially created for it under human and computer control.  An atom bomb, created with weapons grade plutonium to kill millions, goes off in an open, non-controlled environment by way of human command. Thus two very different processes.

I do not normally give any credence to Wikipedia, but as you raise the question of the "list", I will quote what it actually says:

"has reported that worldwide there have been 99 accidents at nuclear power plants.[4] Fifty-seven accidents have occurred since the Chernobyl disaster, and almost two-thirds (56 out of 99) of all nuclear-related accidents have occurred in the USA. Relatively few accidents involved fatalities.[4]"

I have already mentioned the exceptional case of Chernobyl, with exceptional poor management and materials / design in a failing communist state, but even with that the acttual number of fatalities remains uncertain with wild variations. 4000, or 200,000 if so, is a terrible loss of human life.  That is undeniable!  But that is what I meant by comparing mans losses in past and today's energy generation, directly or indirectly; the losses of human life can be measured in millions.  Mankind takes risks in whatever we do.  We try to limit them, but sometimes things go wrong.  We try and avoid that of course, but then we try and limit the casualties.  That is where good modern nuclear generating plant, and practise, comes in!

As for limiting our power use;  you know Cem, as I do, that is NOT an option.  Mankind must go forward, and dare I say at all costs as we have always done, but now we do really try and limit the risks.

[Kevin Wood]

I hope no..A nuclear power plant is actually a nuclear bomb exploding in a slowed fashion.

You need far more enriched fuels than are used in a reactor to cause a nuclear explosion. It's a bit like saying a log on a fire is the same as a stick of dynamite. There is a fundamental limit to how vigourously the reaction in a nuclear reactor can progress.

Yes, reactors need a functional cooling system to prevent them self-destructing, but what we have seen in Japan is, I believe, that even a 40 year old design can cope with the worst-case scenario without serious consequences.

All energy has dangers and consequences associated with it. We have seen most of them in the events of the last year. Mining is dangerous, drilling for oil is dangerous, the whole middle east where we drill for oil is dangerous at the moment. It's right for us to spread the risks and consequences among all available technologies, including nuclear, IMHO.

Unless we take the other option of going back to live in the trees, of course..

Kevin

[cem_devecioglu]

[Lizzie]
"Firstly Cem, yes I am making comparisons, because both subjects are comparable in terms of mans quest to produce energy and goods to use."

Lizzie, you can compare similiars..

nuclear radiation which is a "negligible" problem in your view unfortunately threats lifes of millions ..so the balance of the weighbridge is already leaning to one side..



[Lizzie]
"History has taught us that man has taken risks every step of the way, and nuclear power is actually a far lesser risk than those taken before in terms of human fatalities."

yeah.. I forgot the wars that capitalist world started just to feed its unlimited appetite

[Lizzie]
"The nuclear power generation may be similar to an atom bomb, but it is not the same and is controlled within an environment especially created for it under human and computer control."

........until what.. ?

when all goes pete tong, who you gonna blame.. ? human mistake, design flaw, nature..

do you think Japans cant predict earthquakes or tsunamis

they can.. have you heard of factor of safety ?

 if you want to avoid all risks, this factor becomes so big that you will need very immense budgets  that no country on earth will accept to spend (they have this much money and technology is another question of course)

[Lizzie]
 "An atom bomb, created with weapons grade plutonium to kill millions, goes off in an open, non-controlled environment by way of human command. Thus two very different processes."

Unfortunately, this energy creation process by its nature tends to minimize the difference to 0

[Lizzie]
"has reported that worldwide there have been 99 accidents at nuclear power plants.[4] Fifty-seven accidents have occurred since the Chernobyl disaster, and almost two-thirds (56 out of 99) of all nuclear-related accidents have occurred in the USA. Relatively few accidents involved fatalities.[4]"

Lizzie, neither you nor me were there when these things happen.. and honestly I'not very sure the number of losses reflect the truth..
And besides there are many reasons to cover it..as they did in many events..


[Lizzie]
"I have already mentioned the exceptional case of Chernobyl, with exceptional poor management and materials / design in a failing communist state,"

did you know that it was a "test" procedure and they closed safety systems


[Lizzie]
 "but even with that the acttual number of fatalities remains uncertain with wild variations. 4000, or 200,000 if so, is a terrible loss of human life.  That is undeniable!  But that is what I meant by comparing mans losses in past and today's energy generation, directly or indirectly; the losses of human life can be measured in millions.  Mankind takes risks in whatever we do.  We try to limit them, but sometimes things go wrong.  We try and avoid that of course, but then we try and limit the casualties."

This trial is not sufficient to save people as proven.. And I dont want to trust "trials" for any human life..


  That is where good modern nuclear generating plant, and practise, comes in!

yeah.. build it.. practise ..cause deaths , learn and do it again

[cem_devecioglu]

I hope no..A nuclear power plant is actually a nuclear bomb exploding in a slowed fashion.

You need far more enriched fuels than are used in a reactor to cause a nuclear explosion. It's a bit like saying a log on a fire is the same as a stick of dynamite. There is a fundamental limit to how vigourously the reaction in a nuclear reactor can progress.

I already knew that.. but results have same fatality.. 

Yes, reactors need a functional cooling system to prevent them self-destructing, but what we have seen in Japan is, I believe, that even a 40 year old design can cope with the worst-case scenario without serious consequences.

its not a matter of being new or old power plant..
if you check the list you can see that..actually in principle all designs rely on the fact of cooling..you loose that for some reason and BANG..


All energy has dangers and consequences associated with it. We have seen most of them in the events of the last year. Mining is dangerous, drilling for oil is dangerous, the whole middle east where we drill for oil is dangerous at the moment.

this danger is all limited to workers under or around.. but when you leak radiation the clouds can travel thousands of miles and rain on you..


 It's right for us to spread the risks and consequences among all available technologies, including nuclear, IMHO.

Unless we take the other option of going back to live in the trees, of course..

Kevin

No reason to live on trees but honestly you dont need n tv's,  n pc's and n house stuff currently working at the same time..

[cem_devecioglu]

and my final word on that subject,

sh*t happens and will again..

[Dishevelled Den]

No reason to live on trees but honestly you dont need n tv's,  n pc's and n house stuff currently working at the same time..

Yes, I think that's a very fair point cem although I would recognise the difficulty for those with children and so on trying to keep energy use under control.

In all probability we may have little choice in the near future but to limit our use of energy or to use it more responsibly however, I think there is little realistic option available in the short to medium term to the continued use of energy derived from nuclear generation.

[Nickbat]

No reason to live on trees but honestly you dont need n tv's,  n pc's and n house stuff currently working at the same time..

Cem , it's not just a case of TVs, PCs & lightbulbs. Practically everything we do/make/buy/rely upon these days is based upon a consistent supply of electricity: food production, hospitals, schools, factories, transport, communication, etc. And that is not just the case in the filthy "capitalist" West, but throughout the world.

More people died in the Manhatten bus crash last Sunday than have ever died in nuclear accidents in the US! Yes, of course, any loss of life is sad, but we need to learn lessons and press on...not go backwards! 

[cem_devecioglu]

No reason to live on trees but honestly you dont need n tv's,  n pc's and n house stuff currently working at the same time..

Cem , it's not just a case of TVs, PCs & lightbulbs. Practically everything we do/make/buy/rely upon these days is based upon a consistent supply of electricity: food production, hospitals, schools, factories, transport, communication, etc. And that is not just the case in the filthy "capitalist" West, but throughout the world.

More people died in the Manhatten bus crash last Sunday than have ever died in nuclear accidents in the US! Yes, of course, any loss of life is sad, but we need to learn lessons and press on...not go backwards! 

Nickbat, traffic accidents dont have the potential of poisoning and killing millions in a day and resulting with abondoned cities and large areas for thousands of years.. And I would really prefer to die quickly in an accident instead of being burned with radiation and suffering in big pain for many days..

[Entwood]

No reason to live on trees but honestly you dont need n tv's,  n pc's and n house stuff currently working at the same time..

Cem , it's not just a case of TVs, PCs & lightbulbs. Practically everything we do/make/buy/rely upon these days is based upon a consistent supply of electricity: food production, hospitals, schools, factories, transport, communication, etc. And that is not just the case in the filthy "capitalist" West, but throughout the world.

More people died in the Manhatten bus crash last Sunday than have ever died in nuclear accidents in the US! Yes, of course, any loss of life is sad, but we need to learn lessons and press on...not go backwards! 

Nickbat, traffic accidents dont have the potential of poisioning and killing millions in a day and resulting with abondoned cities and large areas for thousands of years.. And I would really prefer to die quickly in an accident instead of being burned with radiation and suffering in big pain for many days..

and since the start of nuclear energy ... just when has this occured ?? Not even Chyrnobel fits that description. Yes there has been a "release" in Japan . but as quoted tonight .. "you could drive past the complex with the window open and you would get a measurable degree of radiation, but it would be about one fifth of the dose you would recieve from a CAT scan."

There are very major differences between what is happening in Japan ... after a VERY major earthquake/tsunami and what occured at Chrynoble .....

Unfortunately the "press" and the "doomsayers" seem to have lost all sense of perspective.

[cem_devecioglu]

No reason to live on trees but honestly you dont need n tv's,  n pc's and n house stuff currently working at the same time..

Cem , it's not just a case of TVs, PCs & lightbulbs. Practically everything we do/make/buy/rely upon these days is based upon a consistent supply of electricity: food production, hospitals, schools, factories, transport, communication, etc. And that is not just the case in the filthy "capitalist" West, but throughout the world.

More people died in the Manhatten bus crash last Sunday than have ever died in nuclear accidents in the US! Yes, of course, any loss of life is sad, but we need to learn lessons and press on...not go backwards! 

Nickbat, traffic accidents dont have the potential of poisioning and killing millions in a day and resulting with abondoned cities and large areas for thousands of years.. And I would really prefer to die quickly in an accident instead of being burned with radiation and suffering in big pain for many days..

and since the start of nuclear energy ... just when has this occured ?? Not even Chyrnobel fits that description. Yes there has been a "release" in Japan . but as quoted tonight .. "you could drive past the complex with the window open and you would get a measurable degree of radiation, but it would be about one fifth of the dose you would recieve from a CAT scan."

There are very major differences between what is happening in Japan ... after a VERY major earthquake/tsunami and what occured at Chrynoble .....

Unfortunately the "press" and the "doomsayers" seem to have lost all sense of perspective.

Chernobyl was an example/lesson of what could happen..

today was in the news that even 800 kms far away in Russia radiation levels were increased..and the radiation poisoned Japans were closed in some places..

is that not enough ?

imo, no need to talk about radioactive wastes that are disposed in some unusual ways..

[Nickbat]

No reason to live on trees but honestly you dont need n tv's,  n pc's and n house stuff currently working at the same time..

Cem , it's not just a case of TVs, PCs & lightbulbs. Practically everything we do/make/buy/rely upon these days is based upon a consistent supply of electricity: food production, hospitals, schools, factories, transport, communication, etc. And that is not just the case in the filthy "capitalist" West, but throughout the world.

More people died in the Manhatten bus crash last Sunday than have ever died in nuclear accidents in the US! Yes, of course, any loss of life is sad, but we need to learn lessons and press on...not go backwards! 

Nickbat, traffic accidents dont have the potential of poisoning and killing millions in a day and resulting with abondoned cities and large areas for thousands of years.. And I would really prefer to die quickly in an accident instead of being burned with radiation and suffering in big pain for many days..

There were no deaths from the Three Mile Island event and only 56 attributable to Chernobyl.

I think you have been reading too much sensationalist press, Cem. 

[cem_devecioglu]

No reason to live on trees but honestly you dont need n tv's,  n pc's and n house stuff currently working at the same time..

Cem , it's not just a case of TVs, PCs & lightbulbs. Practically everything we do/make/buy/rely upon these days is based upon a consistent supply of electricity: food production, hospitals, schools, factories, transport, communication, etc. And that is not just the case in the filthy "capitalist" West, but throughout the world.

More people died in the Manhatten bus crash last Sunday than have ever died in nuclear accidents in the US! Yes, of course, any loss of life is sad, but we need to learn lessons and press on...not go backwards! 

Nickbat, traffic accidents dont have the potential of poisoning and killing millions in a day and resulting with abondoned cities and large areas for thousands of years.. And I would really prefer to die quickly in an accident instead of being burned with radiation and suffering in big pain for many days..

There were no deaths from the Three Mile Island event and only 56 attributable to Chernobyl.

I think you have been reading too much sensationalist press, Cem. 

what about the fallen babies from pregnant mothers ?

or abnormal births ?

[cem_devecioglu]

now dont blame it on the god really

[cem_devecioglu]

I recommend you to watch the films about the babies conditions, the children after many years..

I wont accept this never ever.. no way..

its a slaughter on human kind.. for what ?