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Author Topic: Old school timing.  (Read 2490 times)

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Lazydocker

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Re: Old school timing.
« Reply #15 on: 04 April 2010, 22:35:25 »
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If it's Vacuum advanced, I assume you timed it with the Vacuum line disconnected and plugged :-? ::)


That rings a bloody big bell .. now you've mentioned it ... and would fit the symptoms pretty well ...  :)


Yup... Buried in the back of my mind as something I came across in the past and scratched my nuts head for ages over ::) ;D
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Andy B

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Re: Old school timing.
« Reply #16 on: 04 April 2010, 22:39:04 »
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If it's Vacuum advanced, I assume you timed it with the Vacuum line disconnected and plugged :-? ::)


That rings a bloody big bell .. now you've mentioned it ... and would fit the symptoms pretty well ...  :)


Yup... Buried in the back of my mind as something I came across in the past and scratched my nuts head for ages over ::) ;D

I thought that would have gone without saying!  ::) ;)
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Lazydocker

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Re: Old school timing.
« Reply #17 on: 04 April 2010, 22:44:26 »
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If it's Vacuum advanced, I assume you timed it with the Vacuum line disconnected and plugged :-? ::)


That rings a bloody big bell .. now you've mentioned it ... and would fit the symptoms pretty well ...  :)


Yup... Buried in the back of my mind as something I came across in the past and scratched my nuts head for ages over ::) ;D

I thought that would have gone without saying!  ::) ;)

So would I... But better to be sure and start at the basics! I've seen it before when people say they've timed something correctly with a light and it's wrong ::) :y

Other option is, of course, to bin the light and time by ear as you really need to with the Rover V8 due to inaccuracy's in the back plate markings ::)
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Old school timing.
« Reply #18 on: 04 April 2010, 22:46:31 »
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Other option is, of course, to bin the light and time by ear as you really need to with the Rover V8 due to inaccuracy's in the back plate markings ::)


And crap loads of slop in the timing chain and dizzy drive skew gear!
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Lazydocker

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Re: Old school timing.
« Reply #19 on: 04 April 2010, 22:47:49 »
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Other option is, of course, to bin the light and time by ear as you really need to with the Rover V8 due to inaccuracy's in the back plate markings ::)


And crap loads of slop in the timing chain and dizzy drive skew gear!

And that's when new... 150K later and I laugh at people saying it's timed correctly ;D ;D
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Old school timing.
« Reply #20 on: 04 April 2010, 23:35:10 »
Another thing to consider if the other dizzy doesn't solve it:

Does the coil have a ballast resistance in series with it? If so, these are sometimes bypassed when cranking to get a better spark with the low voltage from the battery. Perhaps that connection has been missed (normally a wire from coil + terminal to starter solenoid).

At the moment, however, my money is on either the centrifugal advance mechanism seized or perhaps incorrect dwell / points gap. Condensers should always be regarded as suspect too. I have scratched my head before only to find a brand new one was actually faulty, or was fine when cold but failed when hot, etc.

Kevin
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Re: Old school timing.
« Reply #21 on: 05 April 2010, 08:12:05 »
Seem to remember the coil can give those symtoms on that model.
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Old school timing.
« Reply #22 on: 05 April 2010, 10:18:50 »
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Seem to remember the coil can give those symtoms on that model.

Also, if the coil has been replaced, is it the correct type WRT presence or not of a ballast resistance? :y

I reckon that, as the dizzy has been changed, that's the most likely culprit.

Kevin
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Martin_1962

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Re: Old school timing.
« Reply #23 on: 05 April 2010, 10:40:34 »
Kevin - how come you haven't suggested Megsquirt? ;D ;D
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Old school timing.
« Reply #24 on: 05 April 2010, 11:03:00 »
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Kevin - how come you haven't suggested Megsquirt? ;D ;D

You read my mind... But I bit my tongue. ;)

That is, of course, the answer to all of this d1cking about with clockwork engine management bits. :y

Kevin
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Matchless

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Re: Old school timing.
« Reply #25 on: 05 April 2010, 23:24:38 »
"Will start and run if timed near TDC but is flat; wont start if timed before TDC."

This sounds like there is no mechanical or vacuum advance occurring.

iirc the Consuls, Zephyrs and Zodiacs used the Lucas 25D distributor,  they are reliable once sorted but fiddling fingers and bad maintenance often causes problems.

Have a read of this: http://simonlacey.com/pages_new/content/documents/lucastuning.pdf.
You should check that you have the correct cam, bob weights and springs fitted if you can find the original spec (often in the old Haynes and Auto books). Check that the end of the cam arm has not been filed away to increase maximum advance and that you have both a strong and a weak spring fitted, look for signs of the springs being bent in an attempt to change their effect.

The cam should be free to rotate on the drive shaft (limited by the springs etc) I suspect that yours is rusted in place or that the wrong screw or washer is fitted in the end of the shaft...under the rotor arm. I have seen one dizzy where this washer had broken and got jammed between the drive spindle and the points cam.

Once the mechanical advance is working, check the vacuum advance....suck on the vac. inlet and the spring should pull into the vac tank body. Check that the two parts of the points base plate are free to turn...the wrong screw in the condenser can lock them together.

Check the timing mark is correct, I cant remember if these have a bolt-on one or cast-in but put a screwdriver etc down No1 plug hole and slowly turn the engine forwards until the piston is right at the top of the stroke, check that the timing marks line up.

Points gap is 15 thou. (this sets the dwell time, the duration the points are closed for)
Set the static timing to around 8 deg BTDC or what ever the manual says, only ever turn the engine forwards to the marks, if you overshoot turn back well before the marks and go forwards again. Hold the rotor arm backwards to take up any back-lash as you turn the dizzy body to the points break point. It should now start easily.

Use your strobe to check on the dizzi operation, first with vacuum disconnected, as you increase rpm you should see it advance smoothly to around 20 deg BTDC at high rpm. (static plus the advance as stamped on the cam arm).
Then at idle, connect one end of the vac pipe and suck on the other end, the timing should advance smoothly with increasing 'suck', it is often jerky due to the base plate not rotating freely.

Hope you get it sorted.
I have owned MkII Zephyr 6 Low Line, Mk III Zephyr 6 and a MkIII Police Special 6 with three brass SU carbs and a fancy 3 branch exhaust manifold.
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