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[Kevin Wood]

my concern is that having seen many "professional"lpg installations that quite frankly are crap, these same
"professional people"are now going to be judge jury and executioner on diy installs which are usually very good,due in part that considerably more time is spent on them

Yes, and the fact that the LPGA offers no support to customers whose cars have been butchered by their "professionals" yet are constantly trying to dream up schemes to eliminate DIY installs speaks volumes about their motives, IMHO.

"Pay us loads of money and we'll stifle your competition".

Kevin

[tunnie]

ahh yes, certification that reminds me 

I wonder how well 'post-in' certificates are read / checked  :-/ 

[Marks DTM Calib]

my concern is that having seen many "professional"lpg installations that quite frankly are crap, these same
"professional people"are now going to be judge jury and executioner on diy installs which are usually very good,due in part that considerably more time is spent on them

Absolutely agree, the quality of some of the LPG installs by registered professional that I ahev seen are absolutely god dam awful 

[Kevin Wood]

Oh, and of course we're not talking about the LPGA any more, we're talking about UKLPG.

Got a bad name? Everyone hate you? Just change your name.

Kevin

[Sixstring]

Reading this, it appears to almost put paid to me fitting my own LPG cos no-one will insure my car afterwards!!

I suppose me being a qualified Electro-Mechanical engineer by trade will make no difference to them then? Does this mean I will have to pay hundreds of pounds to somebody who will just go " yep, thats fine." and enter me on a internet list as "OK"??

makes me boil!

[Marks DTM Calib]

Reading this, it appears to almost put paid to me fitting my own LPG cos no-one will insure my car afterwards!!

I suppose me being a qualified Electro-Mechanical engineer by trade will make no difference to them then? Does this mean I will have to pay hundreds of pounds to somebody who will just go " yep, thats fine." and enter me on a internet list as "OK"??

makes me boil!

Its all going that way sadly.

Its like house wiring, I can do it to the 17th edition, test it (always have even before it was a requirement) and do a dam good job.....but I am not allowed (like it stops me lol).

[Kevin Wood]

Reading this, it appears to almost put paid to me fitting my own LPG cos no-one will insure my car afterwards!!

I doubt that will be the case. There will be so many people in that situation that the insurance companies will baulk at turning them all away.

The database is apparently populated by UKLPG writing to all installers asking them to submit the copies they have kept of certificates they have issued. UKLPG didn't bother to keep central records. What about the people who have had professional conversions but the installer couldn't be @rsed to keep a copy? Or went out of business? Or couldn't write a certificate because their knuckes have dragged on the ground and been worn away?

There will be a load of people who bought cars converted but without a certificate, etc. etc.

I just can't see it working.

I suppose me being a qualified Electro-Mechanical engineer by trade will make no difference to them then? Does this mean I will have to pay hundreds of pounds to somebody who will just go " yep, thats fine." and enter me on a internet list as "OK"??

makes me boil!

Yep. Absolutely none. Frustrating, isn't it?

Kevin

[Entwood]

Interestingly I've been doing a bit of "research" into this since it appeared on the lpgforum web site.

I have a "full" green LPG Install certificate, DVLA have a copy, my log book (V5) says dual fuel, and my present insurers have a copy.

BUT, apparently I'm not on the new database....

The garage that did the conversion - LPGA Certified - was only asked 2 months ago for the details of all the cars they have converted since 2001 !  So you an imagine how many entries the database must need.... and how long it will take.

TRouble is   UKLPG don't have a phone number .. and, so far, don't answer e-mails..

Trade Organisation stiching up consumers..

[Vamps]

Much as the LPGA would love the "lock-in" this will achieve for its' members I can't see it working.

It all hinges on the insurance business going lock stock over to using its' database.

Why would they do this? What real risks does the average DIY install cause to an insurer? Let's consider the worst possible install you could imagine (from some of the less scrupulous LPGA approved installers, for example  [smiley=evil.gif]). The worst thing that's going to happen is poor running and / or a gas leak.

Granted a large gas leak into the interior of a car will not be nice, and could be dangerous. Otherwise, 99.9% of the time there'll be a nasty smell and not much else.

Bad LPG installs are simply not the bombs the LPGA make out they are so I'm sure the insurance industry will consider the LPGA's proposal, look at the stats to see what percentage of claims are down to LPG issues, and conclude that it's not worth turning away every LPG converted car that doesn't have an entry in the database, especially if there are problems with the LPGA's own approved conversions not automatically ending up on the database!

Even if some insurers do toe the LPGA line, it will open up a niche for those who don't.

Even if it does achieve blanket cover of the whole insurance industry it's not the end of the world. Bend over, pay the money and get your car inspected, jumping through whatever hoops are put before you.

Kevin

Back in the late 70's early 80's gas conversions were popular, I had a company Escort Van that went on fire while a colleague was using it, total burn out the the gas tank did not blow or even vent off, the fire brigade had tried to physically remove the tank from the back of the van but failed....

The van caught fire because the Ford Garage had not done what I asked, I was told to 'shut up' and the company simply claimed on the insurance and I got loads of new tools....

In those days I used to install a lot of LPG industrial heaters, never worked on mains gas though, that scares me....

[Kevin Wood]

Back in the late 70's early 80's gas conversions were popular, I had a company Escort Van that went on fire while a colleague was using it, total burn out the the gas tank did not blow or even vent off, the fire brigade had tried to physically remove the tank from the back of the van but failed....

This is it. Once the vehicle's on fire an LPG tank is not very different to a petrol tank. Both are going to contain a liquid fuel that's well above its' boiling point at atmospheric pressure and generating vapour.

One is made of steel, designed to withstand the pressure resulting from the fuel vapourising and, in the event of an over-pressure due to excessive heat, designed to release vapour in a controlled manner to keep itself intact.

The other is most likely made of plastic, not capable of withstanding any significant pressure or temperature and liable to just dump its' contents as a liquid all over the place fairly early on in the proceedings, causing the fire to spread.  

The fire brigade were pretty daft to try to move the tank, I have to say.

Kevin

[Entwood]

Further news ... UKLPG have, at last, answered my latest email ...

Hi. Once again I'm forced to try and contact you by e-mail as you don't have a telephone system that "normal" people (sometimes called "customers") can access

My car was converted 2 years ago by a fully accredited LPGA garage who issued a certificate, that I now find to be worthless.. due to some new database you have introduced without telling me. The garage gave you all the details 2 months ago, but I am not on the database.

I realise that you are a trade organisation who’s prime aim is the protection of the income of your members.. but your members will have no income if no-one has a conversion done due to your incompetence. I cannot believe that a organisation trying to sell LPG as a “good thing” has instigated a system that alienates its best advertisers – previous customers.

The garage concerned in my conversion :

***********, **********, **********

My certificate number :  *******

Could you please get me on your database ASAP

Regards

N *******

Now, they stopped giving out certificates in June 2010, and insisted everything went on the database from that point on ..

Apparently they only asked my garage for the details of all their conversions  in August, and after my snot-o-gram I get this ...

Hello Mr ******

We are in the course of inputting all old certificates on the Vehicle Register – a major task as you can imagine with around 60,000 certificates to deal with manually

As it happens, the company undertaking this has completed those for ******* Services today and they will be uploaded on to the Register by the end of the day.

I have checked with them and according to them the certificate relates to *******

I trust this is correct, but please do let me know if it is not, or if your vehicle does not appear on the Vehicle Register tomorrow

Regards

Mike Chapman
Autogas Manager
UKLPG

Now.. if it looks like a fish .. it smells like a fish .. and (cynical head on) I don't believe in coincidence like that.... but at least I'm now on the database.

Unbelievable..

[Kevin Wood]

Now.. if it looks like a fish .. it smells like a fish .. and (cynical head on) I don't believe in coincidence like that.... but at least I'm now on the database.

Unbelievable..

Maybe I should try it too. Might save me some cash.

Kevin

[ffcgary1]

what is the postion of cars converted in other countries, will they be able to be added to the data base or is this a closed shop for home converters only, i ask this as my jeep was cetificated in poland and my insurance co are aware of the continental paperwork but did not want to see it, how does this new system affect my cars status.?
As always in this country everything is a shambles and always a knee jerk reaction to Nothing.

[MartinP]

Is this a new "Poll Tax" census to force people to register so as to get a picture of the income they can generate when a magic number is reached!

I have a manufacturer converted car which is descibed as "Duel Fuel" on the V5 and "AFV" on the tax disc. But I am not on their register!

I will leave it a while

[Entwood]

what is the postion of cars converted in other countries, will they be able to be added to the data base or is this a closed shop for home converters only, i ask this as my jeep was cetificated in poland and my insurance co are aware of the continental paperwork but did not want to see it, how does this new system affect my cars status.?
As always in this country everything is a shambles and always a knee jerk reaction to Nothing.

No idea what will happen TBH .. certainly they will not put you on the database as only those certificates issued by LPGA members are being done automatically.

Whether they accept your certificate, if you send it in, I also doubt ... as the one I have certifies that the work was done and tested to LPGA COP 11 ... I doubt yours does...

The major unknown is, how many insurers are going to sign up and insist on the car being on the database

If the takeup is large then folks will have to pay for certification to get insurance ... a rip off IMHO ... if the takeup is low it won't matter.

We just don't know, and that is the problem ..