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Author Topic: Fully synthetic engine oil ?.  (Read 5040 times)

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Field Marshal Dr. Opti

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Fully synthetic engine oil ?.
« on: 06 April 2011, 11:24:45 »

I have my MV6 booked in for an oil and filter change tomorrow at.....ahem....cough ..cough.....Kwik Fit. :-X :-X :-X :-X

Six litres of Mobil 1   0w/40......plus a filter for £44.95.... :-/ :-/

Apparently .......even when cold this oil has the consistency of warm piss. A  big help with sub- zero winter start up. This significantly reduces engine wear and cold start up clatter.......so I'm told. :y

Whatever happened to the oil we all put in our Mini's......Austin 1100/1300.....Ford Anglia .... Cortina.......Corsair.....etc...etc...A proper 20/50 oil like Castrol GTX which was thick like treacle.... :y :y :y :y


They don't make oil like they used to...... :'( :'( :'(
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Fully synthetic engine oil ?.
« Reply #1 on: 06 April 2011, 11:32:10 »

To thin for a V6
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Jimbob

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Re: Fully synthetic engine oil ?.
« Reply #2 on: 06 April 2011, 11:34:05 »

and is one of the worst oils for causing 'mayo' in certain places.

Andy B

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Re: Fully synthetic engine oil ?.
« Reply #3 on: 06 April 2011, 11:35:48 »

Quote
.... Six litres of Mobil 1   0w/40......plus a filter for £44.95.... :-/ :-/ .......

You could buy 4 x 5 litres of semi-skimmed from Vauxhall (on TC) for that money ....... but you might have to get your hands a bit dirty if you want an oil change with it.  ;)
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Fully synthetic engine oil ?.
« Reply #4 on: 06 April 2011, 11:42:56 »

Hmm. I smell a rat straight away. That sounds too cheap.

£47.77 inc VAT for 5 litres at Opie. Are you sure that's what they are using? :-? More likely to be whatever bulk oil they have in the tank, IMHO. :-/

You don't need to get into exotic oils like that to give adequate performance in an Omega anyway, IMHO. The GM 10w40 is plenty good enough although it'll have a much shorter useful life (not an issue if you change it regularly anyway). Even GM's 5w30 fully synthetic oil is only about £50 on trade club for 20L.

I think I'd only go to Mobil 1 in an engine that would be cripplingly expensive to replace and used in such anger that it's likely to stretch the capabilities of a regular oil (i.e. on the track). Even then, I'm sure most of the extra cost is paying for their marketing budget!

You can strip down engines that have done 6 figure road mileages on main dealer service schedules and main dealer oil these days and find barely any significant wear so, IMHO, spending too much on oil is a false economy.

Kevin
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Mr Hagon

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Re: Fully synthetic engine oil ?.
« Reply #5 on: 06 April 2011, 11:52:26 »

What are the implications of 5w30 over 10w40 oil, as I think GM are now recommending 5w30 across the board?

Will it find it's way out of failing cam cover gaskets easier, for example?

Just curious more than anything  :y.
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Fully synthetic engine oil ?.
« Reply #6 on: 06 April 2011, 12:00:18 »

Quote
What are the implications of 5w30 over 10w40 oil, as I think GM are now recommending 5w30 across the board?

Will it find it's way out of failing cam cover gaskets easier, for example?

Just curious more than anything  :y.

Well, it's a little thinner, so it might find its' way out of any existing leaks at a slightly quicker rate, but a leak's a leak. ;)

If the engine is well worn already it might consume a little more oil.

It has better flow during cold start and a longer life. Double the cost and maybe double the life, so, in reality, it just saves you crawling under the car as much. ;D

EDIT: And GM are recommending it because they put the schedules up to 20k changes, and they don't want to stock more than one spec of oil!

Kevin
« Last Edit: 06 April 2011, 12:01:08 by Kevin_Wood »
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MICHELINMAN

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Re: Fully synthetic engine oil ?.
« Reply #7 on: 06 April 2011, 12:03:57 »

its like putting in Baboons piss. ;D ;D ;D ;D
DONT DO IT!!!
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Field Marshal Dr. Opti

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Re: Fully synthetic engine oil ?.
« Reply #8 on: 06 April 2011, 12:12:52 »

Quote
Hmm. I smell a rat straight away. That sounds too cheap.

£47.77 inc VAT for 5 litres at Opie. Are you sure that's what they are using? :-? More likely to be whatever bulk oil they have in the tank, IMHO. :-/

You don't need to get into exotic oils like that to give adequate performance in an Omega anyway, IMHO. The GM 10w40 is plenty good enough although it'll have a much shorter useful life (not an issue if you change it regularly anyway). Even GM's 5w30 fully synthetic oil is only about £50 on trade club for 20L.

I think I'd only go to Mobil 1 in an engine that would be cripplingly expensive to replace and used in such anger that it's likely to stretch the capabilities of a regular oil (i.e. on the track). Even then, I'm sure most of the extra cost is paying for their marketing budget!

You can strip down engines that have done 6 figure road mileages on main dealer service schedules and main dealer oil these days and find barely any significant wear so, IMHO, spending too much on oil is a false economy.

Kevin


That's what I was told Kevin. He showed me in the book. As for what they actually put in it.........well....your guess is as good as mine.We are talking about Kwik Fit after all..... :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/

My( very limited) understanding is that a 0w/40 oil protects better at both higher and lower temperatures than a 5/30 or 10/40 oil. Is that correct?

« Last Edit: 06 April 2011, 12:13:29 by optimist »
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Dishevelled Den

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Re: Fully synthetic engine oil ?.
« Reply #9 on: 06 April 2011, 12:17:07 »

Is there any reason why you're not doing the work yourself Opti?
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Mr Hagon

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Re: Fully synthetic engine oil ?.
« Reply #10 on: 06 April 2011, 12:33:28 »

Quote
Quote
What are the implications of 5w30 over 10w40 oil, as I think GM are now recommending 5w30 across the board?

Will it find it's way out of failing cam cover gaskets easier, for example?

Just curious more than anything  :y.

Well, it's a little thinner, so it might find its' way out of any existing leaks at a slightly quicker rate, but a leak's a leak. ;)

If the engine is well worn already it might consume a little more oil.

It has better flow during cold start and a longer life. Double the cost and maybe double the life, so, in reality, it just saves you crawling under the car as much. ;D

EDIT: And GM are recommending it because they put the schedules up to 20k changes, and they don't want to stock more than one spec of oil!

Kevin
Well, I seem to be doing about 4k miles a year and the oil gets changed annually anyway so 10w40 sounds like it's good enough.

Just need to check the dipstick periodically and not rely on the check control  :y.
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Fully synthetic engine oil ?.
« Reply #11 on: 06 April 2011, 12:41:59 »

Quote
My( very limited) understanding is that a 0w/40 oil protects better at both higher and lower temperatures than a 5/30 or 10/40 oil. Is that correct?


Maybe. ;)

Oil is naturally thicker at lower temperatures. In the old days, oil used to be monograde, so you'd go out and buy a 40 viscosity oil. It would be like treacle at room temperature and quite fluid at running temperature (say 100 degrees C for argument's sake).

Such an oil was OK ish for cars of the time, but a modern engine won't cope with oil like treacle because the clearances between the mechanical parts won't allow adequate oil flow when cold, and the engine will be damaged at cold start.

So, all modern engine oils are "multigrade" in that their grade changes with temperature. This means we have effectively a much thinner "base" oil, but it's made thicker at high temperatures by viscosity improvers (VIs). In layman's terms, a 10W40 oil can be considered to behave like a 10 viscosity oil at low temperature (the so-called "winter" rating - hence 10w) and a 40 viscosity at high temperature.

So, a 0w40 is different to a 10w40 in that it's thinner at low temperatures and about the same at operating temperature. You will have a thinner oil at cold start and this might help it circulate earlier and save some engine wear at startup, so this is indeed a possible benefit to choosing this oil. Probably the only possible benefit unless you're going to leave it in there for 20k and take a chance on its' long life! I can't see how a 0w40 would be different to a 10w40 when hot, although if you really do cook the oil, maybe Mobil 1 would survive better. You won't do that in an Omega that sees road use, though.

Remember that a multigrade oil is made out of a very thin base oil with VIs added to thicken it up. VIs lose their effectiveness over the life of the oil, so the oil could become too thin where it's important (at full working temperature) with age. A 0w40 will rely more on VIs than a 10w40, as it will have a thinner base oil. Being a quality fully synthetic oil the Mobil will probably have good quality VIs that last well, but a warning not to trust poor quality oils that have a wide spread of winter-to-hot rating.

Of course, all this theory is meaningless unless you can see inside the engine and watch the oil working - we can't!

We can only perhaps wonder about the effects of oil when stripping engines for repair - hence my post that modern engines really don't wear that significantly, so oil choice is not a big issue. Whatever oil you choose, barring a catastrophic failure, your car bodywork will have rotted away before the engine wears out anyway. ;)

Kevin

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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Fully synthetic engine oil ?.
« Reply #12 on: 06 April 2011, 14:06:48 »

My concern has always been regarding the cold worn engine parts and a cold thin oil.....
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Fully synthetic engine oil ?.
« Reply #13 on: 06 April 2011, 14:41:09 »

Quote
My concern has always been regarding the cold worn engine parts and a cold thin oil.....

Yes, probably not the best option for an engine that's getting on, as most Omegas are.

Doesn't make financial sense, anyway, as most of the wear you're allegedly preventing has already happened!

Kevin
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CaptainZok

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Re: Fully synthetic engine oil ?.
« Reply #14 on: 06 April 2011, 14:56:13 »

Oil thread?
 ;D ;D
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