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[Dave-C]

Our son had this acident last Sunday, travelling down a road there is NO Give Way sign on the left of the carriageway and severely worn away road markings (As shown in the piccy) he was only travelling at around 20-25 mph around the bend, past a pub with a parked car outside.  As I say NO Give Way sign on the left and virtually NO road markings, I personally could have made the same error / misjudgemnet on an unfamilliar road in similar circumstances.....

Your comments and opinions will be greatly received............

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Dave C

[MikeDundee]

Not nice .....................think it's worth fighting though on the basis of no road signs and virtually no markings, insurers legal if covered should take it up, they will also await the police report. Then there is the issue in my view that he has driven into oncoming traffic, the Police may say undue car and attention .....maybe on the basis that it is a t-junction irrespective of any markings..............Again just my view, really depends on what the Police report says. Broocie may well have a better opinion and advice on this one

[Auto Addict]

One for hotel21, me thinks....

[biker]

yep I would have to agree with hotel21 think its harsh but I still think he will be blamed in part for the accident. sorry..

[Markjay]

Not sure who's fault it is in this case, but... generally speaking the ultimate responsibility is always on the driver. Poor road conditions, lack or marking, bad weather etc can all be considered as contributing factors to an accident, but they rarely shift the blame away from the driver. The notion is that a driver must always be aware of the road condition and compensate accordingly e.g. by driving carefully, reducing speed etc. Only in very extreme cases (e.g. say a faulty traffic light that is green in all directions at the same time...) a driver would be found not guilty due to external circumstances.

[Andy B]

Why do people, like the silver/grey Corsa, to the right of the picture drive around on just side lights? IMHO they should be just for parking lights, what ever happened to the idea of dim/dip lights that prevented you from driving on just side lights?

[hotel21]

In a bit of a rush at the moment to go out so will give a quick and dirty interpretation meantime, pending a re-post later.

Give way markings have a little to play in the crash, but are not the be all and end all, unfortunately....

Consider and answer the following then rethink apportionment of blame....

Give way warning sign on the lesser road on the approach?  Painted warning triangle on the roadsurface?  Route direction signs on the approach showing junction layout approaching?  Finger pole signs on opposite side of the junction directly in the line of sight of the driver on the lesser road, indcating road goes now left and right in front of him on the major road?  Double white line system in play on the major road?

There may well be an argument that your sons insurers can take up with the council or Roads Authority who have responsibility for the markings but in the first instance, if I was attending and dealing, its without due care and attention etc for the driver emerging....

[stuart30]

Hope you dont take offense too this but assuming the small black car pictured is your sons then i would lay them blame 100% squarely at his feet...in fact if i was the other driver involved id probably push for a case of dangerous/careless driving.

Sorry if that sounds harsh and unfair but its quite clear that he was exiting from a junction simply by the road lay out and the fact the way the white lines are laid out on the main road,im afraid it looks like a case of not paying enough attention and unfortunately getting caught out...im sure most of us have at some point have been guilty of not paying enough attention to what we were doing or our surrondings.

Regards the council you could take that avenue,although maybe your argument should be based on hopefully avaoiding a similar accident occuring again as opposed to dishing out blame.

Hope your son is ok and maybe it would be worth getting him signed up to an advanced drivers course,im told there really good and help with obsevations ect ect.

Stu.

[Elite Pete]

Hope your lad is OK Dave.

Trying to get the Highways department to admit fault is very hard. I tried about 4 years ago and I was only for a new wheel and tyre but with no luck. They said they had inspected the hole in the road and work was planed before I went down it to which my solicitor told me to give up.

[Andy B]

Hope your lad is OK Dave.

Trying to get the Highways department to admit fault is very hard. I tried about 4 years ago and I was only for a new wheel and tyre but with no luck. They said they had inspected the hole in the road and work was planed before I went down it to which my solicitor told me to give up.

Bolton Council paid up for the repairs to my sump, but even then they still didn't admit liability.  :-/

[Kevin Wood]

A mate of Emma's, who is a very careful driver, had a collision with a biker in a similar instance. She pulled up to a junction, looked both ways, and started to pull out. Biker appeared out of nowhere

Biker was found to be speeding, several signs had been badly placed and obscured her view of the road in the direction of the Biker's emergence but she still got prosecuted. Seems we are expected to be familiar with coping with 3rd world standards of road construction by now

I think if you don't have the right of way you're basically at fault regardless of the circumstances. Might be worth seeing if your legal protection will cover clobbering the council with a bit of grief, if nothing else. Matters will only improve if they get hassled.

Kevin

[Marks DTM Calib]

Yup for me its the fault of the driver....under such circumstances you have to read more of the road and adjust speed and approach accordingly (which is what you shoudl do all the time).

There are more than enough hints around to sudgest that it should be a give way scenario on the side road.

Probably more to do with lack of experience, I hope nobody was seriously hurt and learn a lesson from it.

[Dave-C]

Hope your lad is OK Dave.

Trying to get the Highways department to admit fault is very hard. I tried about 4 years ago and I was only for a new wheel and tyre but with no luck. They said they had inspected the hole in the road and work was planed before I went down it to which my solicitor told me to give up.

Pete,
Thanks, he's OK, 3 broken ribs...  His passenger had a few nights in hospital, observation for suspected damage to his liver, seatbelt injuries etc  We are not sure of the other drivers injurys, we have tried to find out to no avail.

Speaking generally now, TBH we don't want to go down the route of claiming etc, we just believe that the state of that road, it's approaching roads, it's signage or lack of, is very mitigating in this instance....  I respect what some of you have stated and it's not as though it's a financial issue, he's well insured, it's not that we want more than we deserve, it's just making the council accountable and the only way they understand is being hit financially..

Keep the opinions / advice coming :-?...  It's valuable at times like this  

[hotel21]

Just reread the above, and I confirm my initial thoughts.  

Looks to me from the angle of the picture that the emerging driver was turning right or did he simply lock up and run out of road into the path of the car on the major road?  

The road layout and the additional signs opposite the road end etc all give information back to the 'Carefull and Competent' road user that there is something ahead that requires additional thought to pass through.   The fact that a road user failed to respond to this information, even including the deformed/damaged/missing paint and signs, shows that the standard of driving displayed has fallen short of that of the 'C and C' driver and therefore, IMO, worthy of guilt.

A good insurance company may manage to apportion some percentage of blame to the Council or roads authority for lack of maintenance of signage, however the largest burden of responsibility by far lies at the emerging driver.   The lack of any painted markings on the road indicating the give way line and the lack of a give way warning sign are mitigating factors but not a defence.  

As said before, cars are just expensive bits of tin and straightforward, if costly, to replace.  Hope all persons involved are well....    

[Danny]

looking at that, if the corsa has driven out of the junction on the right of the photo and hit the car coming down the major road, the corsa appears to be at fault if the other car was driving competently down the major road, as it hasnt given way, altho its starting to go dark, visibility doesnt look dangerously low

road markings might only play a minor part, as caution needs to be taken at any junction, and as said, the signs opposite the junction are visible