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Author Topic: Can you adjust the camber?  (Read 2446 times)

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nordic

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Can you adjust the camber?
« on: 13 August 2010, 11:43:33 »

I have a 3.0 V6 which runs on 235 45 17 tyres.

The inner edge upon the front drivers (Offside) has scrubbed away.

Having had the tracking adjusted today and two steering outer tie rods fitted, I noticed after a motorway run that the edge of the tyre was very hot. No doubt due to friction.

The other front tyre upon the near side had uniform heat across the entire tyre - not just upon the inner edge - as per the driver's side.

If the garage did correct the tracking correctly - is there any means to adjust the camber?
Could this be the problem upon the driver's side?

Would worn wishbone bushes be a cause? They appear slightly worn but not a concern according to the MOT tester.

 :-/Cheers

Andy
« Last Edit: 13 August 2010, 12:10:38 by nordic »
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ken-omega

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Re: Can you adjust the camber?
« Reply #1 on: 13 August 2010, 11:51:23 »

Yes you can on omega B. Rigt behind brake disk the mcperson-arm is split an fasted with teo bolts. If you slacken this two the wheel will come out. If your car has orginal spring you can take it all the way out. Over time, driving this split will go inside again and tires wil scuff inside again. Hope you understand my engelish (Norwegian Omegaowners here :) )
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geoffr70

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Re: Can you adjust the camber?
« Reply #2 on: 13 August 2010, 12:39:38 »

You can as far as I'm aware.

I recently replaced the w/bones, d/links, track rods, etc on mine then took it for tracking. The tracking is fine but I supect the camber isn't as I have the same problem as you.

I spoke to my mechanic friend. The camber is adjusted by the same way as the tracking, by rotating the track rod. This pushes, or pulls the wheels in or out as the rod is extended or shortened. This obviously effects the tracking aswell. It is possible to have the tracking set up correctly but for the camber to be totally out. If you adjust the camber this way, you will have to adjust both sides to maintain tracking.

I attempt most things on my car but I wouldn't do this without the proper equipment. I'm toying with the idea of going to WIM, but it's too far away, and there doesn't seem to be any reliable 4 wheel tracking and camber places in NE.
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Matchless

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Re: Can you adjust the camber?
« Reply #3 on: 13 August 2010, 13:23:04 »

Geoff: Your mechanic is wrong or has a poor understanding of suspension adjustments.

Only the toe is set by adjusting the track rod lengths, not the camber.
On most cars the camber is fixed, ie non-adjustable and, for a given toe setting, you get whatever camber the manufacturing tolerances give you.
The Omega has adjustable camber. The spring strut is joined to the axle assy by two bolts, the hole for one of these bolts is slotted. If you loosen both bolts and pull the wheel outwards at the top you can reduce the camber.
Problem is that all these adjustments are interactive so adjusting the camber messes up the toe setting. Very few alignment places have the tools or knowledge to set camber correctly which is why we recommend Wheels In Motion for a full suspension set-up.
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robson

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Re: Can you adjust the camber?
« Reply #4 on: 13 August 2010, 18:34:50 »

Is there anywhere in the South East or London area that can do this work
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Andy H

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Re: Can you adjust the camber?
« Reply #5 on: 13 August 2010, 19:17:55 »

Quote
Is there anywhere in the South East or London area that can do this work
WIM are in Hertford. If I lived as close as you I would have been to them to have my set up done months ago.
[edit]Oops. They are in Chesham so not quite so good for you :([/edit]
« Last Edit: 14 August 2010, 10:11:58 by andyh »
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TheBoy

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Re: Can you adjust the camber?
« Reply #6 on: 14 August 2010, 09:59:19 »

Quote
Is there anywhere in the South East or London area that can do this work
Wheels-In-Motion are in Chesham, Bucks (just outside M25), www.wheels-in-motion.co.uk

If you mention Omega Owners Forum, you get a special rate if you visit the Chesham base (they have other franchises around the UK, but we cannot get discount at these).  Please note that booking is essential.  If you want the discount at Chesham, phone rather than book online, and mention Omega Owners Forum :y
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Andy H

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Re: Can you adjust the camber?
« Reply #7 on: 14 August 2010, 10:14:56 »

Quote
Quote
Is there anywhere in the South East or London area that can do this work
Wheels-In-Motion are in Chesham, Bucks (just outside M25), www.wheels-in-motion.co.uk

If you mention Omega Owners Forum, you get a special rate if you visit the Chesham base (they have other franchises around the UK, but we cannot get discount at these).  Please note that booking is essential.  If you want the discount at Chesham, phone rather than book online, and mention Omega Owners Forum :y

Looks like a different company is sitting on that web address.

This one  http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk  works for me  :y

I found WIM Forum - Omega Question on their forum.
« Last Edit: 14 August 2010, 10:17:17 by andyh »
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feeutfo

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Re: Can you adjust the camber?
« Reply #8 on: 14 August 2010, 10:20:26 »

Just to add, omega is adjustable for
Camber, toe and caster at the front
Toe/camber at the rear.

Good practice for all this is to examine the car for steering and suspension faults
Rectify (before set up as subsequent replacement may well need set up again)
Set up at wim
Fit new tyres
Then should handle and behave normally with long term ownership in mind.
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Liam

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Re: Can you adjust the camber?
« Reply #9 on: 14 August 2010, 13:03:24 »

How is caster adjusted?
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Andy H

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Re: Can you adjust the camber?
« Reply #10 on: 14 August 2010, 13:15:56 »

Quote
How is caster adjusted?
I'm guessing that moving the subframe changes the caster angle & the aim is to get both sides the same  :-/
« Last Edit: 14 August 2010, 13:25:28 by andyh »
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nordic

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Re: Can you adjust the camber?
« Reply #11 on: 14 August 2010, 16:26:02 »

Sadly, there are limited garages catering for 4 wheel alignment in the North East.

I had such done not long ago by 'North East Tyres and Exhausts' who had a fancy computerized set-up with lasers coming from the ceiling. All looked very profession with computerised dials etc. which were said to allow pin-point accuracy. I felt as if my car was getting treatment reserved for Formula 1 cars!

£100 later and with a computer print out in hand I attempted to leave their car park only to find the steering wheel at an angle usually reserved for hollywood films and cars on filming trailers!

Went back in and the young lat aged about 19 stated he could not understand what went wrong?!! Older chap took over and I left with steering wheel at the correct angle.

Sadly, it appears as if he just adjusted the set up to get the steering wheel right and to get me out the door!

May car is comng up to ten years old and many such places would rather you did not turn up!

How difficult is it for a garage to adjust the camber - bearing in mind the age of my car?

Having put four new tyres on my car at considerable cost I am worried that they will simply state they have done the job when clearly they have not! My only telling whether they have or not will be some miles later when no doubt they would say I must have hit something!

Will feeling the temperature of the tyre surface across its width give any indication of potential uneven wear? Hot on inner corners indicating incorrect camber?

Cheers,

Andy :-/

« Last Edit: 14 August 2010, 16:28:40 by nordic »
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feeutfo

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Re: Can you adjust the camber?
« Reply #12 on: 14 August 2010, 18:40:01 »

Quote
Quote
How is caster adjusted?
I'm guessing that moving the subframe changes the caster angle & the aim is to get both sides the same  :-/
Caster is the distance the front axle sits forward of the top suspension turret. Or, the angle of the suspension struts from the vertical. Think motorcycle fork angle when viewed from the side, similar thing, the steeper the angle the quicker it turns and returns to centre.

It's not officially adjustable on the omega, but the correct angle can be achieved by adjusting the subframe position as said, simply undo the substantial subframe bolts and adjust the frame fore and aft on each side to correct any unevenness, nearer the front of the car gives a more a lazy return to centre and a heavier feel at the s wheel, rearward gives the opposite, IMO rearward is better but you don't want it too quick or you loose feel and possibly get a bit undesteary.

This should be done before adjusting camber and toe as the other components all hang off the subframe which will now be in a different position to the steering and turrets.

I notice the wim web site now states the omega is not adjustable for caster, but they know how to do it. Not what Tony said at the open day when he announced caster to be set, until I told him otherwise from what I learned at Micheldever tyres. Maybe I should claim some royalties or something.  ;D
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feeutfo

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Re: Can you adjust the camber?
« Reply #13 on: 14 August 2010, 19:04:13 »

Quote
Sadly, there are limited garages catering for 4 wheel alignment in the North East.

I had such done not long ago by 'North East Tyres and Exhausts' who had a fancy computerized set-up with lasers coming from the ceiling. All looked very profession with computerised dials etc. which were said to allow pin-point accuracy. I felt as if my car was getting treatment reserved for Formula 1 cars!

£100 later and with a computer print out in hand I attempted to leave their car park only to find the steering wheel at an angle usually reserved for hollywood films and cars on filming trailers!

Went back in and the young lat aged about 19 stated he could not understand what went wrong?!! Older chap took over and I left with steering wheel at the correct angle.

Sadly, it appears as if he just adjusted the set up to get the steering wheel right and to get me out the door!

May car is comng up to ten years old and many such places would rather you did not turn up!

How difficult is it for a garage to adjust the camber - bearing in mind the age of my car?

Having put four new tyres on my car at considerable cost I am worried that they will simply state they have done the job when clearly they have not! My only telling whether they have or not will be some miles later when no doubt they would say I must have hit something!

Will feeling the temperature of the tyre surface across its width give any indication of potential uneven wear? Hot on inner corners indicating incorrect camber?

Cheers,

Andy :-/


As the suspension ages it sags, meaning wim recommend a set up once a year as a result because ride hight affecst camber on the omega, same as fitting lowering springs or new springs, ride hight will be affected, and hence so will camber, and is why the front tyres wear in a more rounded profile, and the rears wear flatter due the trailing arm geometry at the back, little camber is induced during suspension travel compared to the front.

Your not alone in the problems your having, and the garage in question is typical of muppets who can't read a ruler never mind laser guided kit, plus they are using vx settings which are so wide as to be useless, plus add in old tired suspension and it becomes a bit pointless.

Where wim excel is they have someone there who knows the dynamics and what to aim for, they have come up with their own tolerances and settings that work. Iirc, camber is 1 degree 10 minutes, toe is 0.10 minutes plus or minus 0.05 mins, but ring tony at wim and have a chat, he is a good lad and will be helpful no doubt.


For your current situation it sounds like you may well be better off with a spirit level and some flat ground for camber and set nearer the rears camber. Hot inside edge is camber related, but also can be caused by failed wishbone bushes losing control of the correct position of the wheels, toe in can also result, regardless of what the measurements are at rest.

Hth
« Last Edit: 14 August 2010, 19:07:52 by chrisgixer »
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nordic

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Re: Can you adjust the camber?
« Reply #14 on: 14 August 2010, 19:22:17 »

Thanks for those details - its is of great help.

I think I will put off having the camber/tracking looked at until I have the front wishbone bushes looked at.

I think it may be easier (dont' know about cheaper) to simply replace the wishbones?

I have found one garage which appears to employ men not boys and state they can do the work.

If WIM are as helpfull as everyone states (shame they are so far away) perhaps I should suggest my garage contacts them before they undertake the work.

Thank you very much for your kind guidance and help.

Cheers

Andy :y
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