Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Andy B]

..... and why anyone should hang the emergency services out to dry because . ...

I think that comment was for my benefit.

[Markjay]

Firstly there is a difference between the meaning of the word ‘fault’ from the moral point of view and the legal one. If two vehicles enter a junction at the same time they are both prats, and are both morally responsible for the collision, but only one will be legally at fault.

So yes one should always take care when entering a junction, be it when the light is green or otherwise. In the same way you should always look in both direction when stepping into the road, just in case a confused / drunk / police / tourist / bank robber or whatever is coming down the wrong way. But if you do get ran over by someone going the wrong way then legally speaking surely it is the driver’s fault, not yours?

So again in my view she had it all coming apart from a conviction for causing death.

[Markjay]

Secondly, as someone who studied Philosophy (albeit in another life ) I can tell you the logical meaning of ‘cause’ has nothing to do with whether the accident would have been avoided if an earlier incident did not occur (i.e. the lady wasn’t texting). In the same way, if her ex-hubby did not ask her to come and meet him, she wouldn’t be on that road, and the accident wouldn’t have happened, so is the accident her ex fault?

To take it to absurd, if a jet would have crashed on that particular stretch of road a few hours earlier, the road would have been closed-off and the cyclist still alive. Does this mean that it’s the pilot’s fault for not crashing?

When establishing fault, one should look at all those actions that would have prevented the accident had they NOT occurred, but then establish which of these actions should not have been preformed or were outright illegal, and then ask whether the reasonable person should have anticipated that taking this action could lead to an accident. And the simple answer is yes top both texting through a junction as well as to jumping a red light on a bike.;

[MaxV6]

I have to admit some bias......

19th may 1989 , I was pulling away across some green lights at a junction in High wycombe.  

you cannot clearly SEE what might be coming as it's obscured by building , railings and greenery....  

so a daft cow runs the red lights doing , according to the investigating officers, between 65 and 70 Mph , ina 30 zone.

hits my car about 2 feet behind where i'm sat...   cuts it in half,

I end up with a broken neck, crushed left hand , and lower back injury.  both the spinal injuries plague me to this day.

now then, tell me how it is that I'd NOT want the bitch strung up?

had I died......  which was close enough to sweat about...      i'd hope she'd have gone away for a LONG time.

as it happens , the lights were right next to the Law courts.... in which she was tried and convicted.....   they threw several books at her....

She was apparently in a hurry to get home for Lunch....  


Granted, the position is kind of reversed , in that the young woman in today's news was passing thru the light on green....   but it's the same kind of lack of due care and attention , and disregard for other road user's safety that really gets up my nose.....

the cyclist should also have been prosecuted had he not died....   to be fair, he was "running the red lights"

but that's not an excuse.

if he'd T-boned in to the side of her car, then it might be fairer to say she wasn't at fault for his death, there was nothing she could have done, but she should STILL be prosecuted for the phone use.

 

[TheBoy]

she should get jail time even if he hadn't died IMO

it's illegal to use the phone under such circumstances....   and txt'ing is even bloody worse than making a call in terms of driver attention and line of sight...

one would hope a 999 call driver would be alert enough to miss, but it might not have been possible to avoid, and really, it would be her fault... and why anyone should hang the emergency services out to dry because of some daft cow txt'ing is beyond me entirely.

the only other point I take exception to is labelling the BBC as a Govt press office.....  but that's another story entirely !

I notice, like your beloved BBC, that you conveniently didn't mention the cyclist running a red light either.  The cyclist got what he deserved.  The bitch got off lightly.  And the BBC, well  

[TheBoy]

Secondly, as someone who studied Philosophy (albeit in another life ) I can tell you the logical meaning of ‘cause’ has nothing to do with whether the accident would have been avoided if an earlier incident did not occur (i.e. the lady wasn’t texting). In the same way, if her ex-hubby did not ask her to come and meet him, she wouldn’t be on that road, and the accident wouldn’t have happened, so is the accident her ex fault?

To take it to absurd, if a jet would have crashed on that particular stretch of road a few hours earlier, the road would have been closed-off and the cyclist still alive. Does this mean that it’s the pilot’s fault for not crashing?

When establishing fault, one should look at all those actions that would have prevented the accident had they NOT occurred, but then establish which of these actions should not have been preformed or were outright illegal, and then ask whether the reasonable person should have anticipated that taking this action could lead to an accident. And the simple answer is yes top both texting through a junction as well as to jumping a red light on a bike.;

and nobody is still not mentioning the bloody cyclist!

[hotel21]

If the cyclist was still here they would also be subject to proceedings, IMHO.  However, he has answered to a higher authority this time.....

[MaxV6]

errrr   try reading the post before your last 2 then Jaime....  

[TheBoy]

errrr   try reading the post before your last 2 then Jaime....  

noted.  I hadn't got that far when I was replying.  Mr Angry has been out to play a lot today  

[TheBoy]

i read a report on it in mcn a while ago but i must admit i cant vouch for the accuracy of their story

Would you feel the same if that was your child on the pushbike?

As devastated as I would be if it was my loved one, the cyclist was in the wrong.  Whether or not the driver was (clearly was in this case) wouldn't necessarily affected the outcome.  If cyclist keep running red lights (and they do), the inevitable will happen.  Surely the cyclist could see the car.


My younger Nephews have no idea about road safety.  In Cyprus last year, they just stepped out in to road to cross, too busy playing PSP.  Would that have been the drivers fault (fortunately he missed)? No.  Don't schools teach this any more?  And yes, they are definately old enough to know better.

[MaxV6]

noted.  I hadn't got that far when I was replying.  Mr Angry has been out to play a lot today  

yeah, we all have days like that mate...

for me, it's usually any day with a D in it....

 

[hotel21]

Would you feel the same if that was your child on the pushbike?

I would be inconsolable if the deceased were any of mine.

However, if you do something like running a red light/playing chicken on a dual carriageway, then participants instantly become prime contender for the next issue of the Darwin awards.,

[TheBoy]

Would you feel the same if that was your child on the pushbike?

I would be inconsolable if the deceased were any of mine.

However, if you do something like running a red light/playing chicken on a dual carriageway, then participants instantly become prime contender for the next issue of the Darwin awards.,

I've only met your lad (and the mrs, but i was very drunk), and he has his bonce screwed on enough to know he will always lose in a fight against a 30mph 1 tonne of tin object....

[TheBoy]

Still, it goes back to my thoughts about survival of the fittest. 500m yrs of evolution cant be wrong.  Because we allow stoooooopid people to add to the gene pool, things will get worse.  Shoot them before puberty.

[Darth Loo-knee]

Would you feel the same if that was your child on the pushbike?

I would be inconsolable if the deceased were any of mine.

However, if you do something like running a red light/playing chicken on a dual carriageway, then participants instantly become prime contender for the next issue of the Darwin awards.,

When I did my car and bike test you had to keep your eyes peeled, if you saw an ice cream van slow down be looking out for children running across the road, at junctions be watching for motorbikes etc....
Be honest if you were driving your car and a person be it a cyclist, motorcyclist or a car jumping the red light, you would do your best to miss them, swerve run into another car, wall anything to miss the person.... if then the person had been killed I would be able to live with myself knowing full well I could have done no more.