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[Cliffo B]

 anybody know what the min to max air pressure the rear self leveling shocks operate at on my elite estate?
 I need to know as I am going to install  pump up air bags into each rear spring to hopefully upgrade the 70 Kg GM noseweight spec and help assist with the extra weight from the lpg tank in the spare wheel well
 These air bags I had fitted to my previous MV6 estate and they worked very well
they operated similar to the Monroe ride leveler shocks but allowed the suspension to work with the standard MV6 shocks.
I'm hopeing it will work effectively if I Tee in an air supply for the air bags from the existing  GM self leveling airline,as apposed to useing the stand alone pump up system I built for the MV6


    

[tunnie]

do you do a lot of towing? I have just left the rear suspension of mine standard & I have a 90L tank in the back of mine. Not had any issues 

[henryd]

anybody know what the min to max air pressure the rear self leveling shocks operate at on my elite estate?
 I need to know as I am going to install  pump up air bags into each rear spring to hopefully upgrade the 70 Kg GM noseweight spec and help assist with the extra weight from the lpg tank in the spare wheel well
 These air bags I had fitted to my previous MV6 estate and they worked very well,they operated similar to the Monroe ride leveler shocks but allowed the suspension to work with the standard MV6 shocks.I'm hopeing it will work effectively if I Tee in an air supply for the air bags from the existing  GM self leveling airline,as apposed to useing the stand alone pump up system I built for the MV6


    

its all very well pumping up the back of the car but the towbar and its mounting points were designed for the same weight limit,what are you going to do to them  :-?

[Cliffo B]

yes I'm retired and do a fair amount of towing, my towbar is an Alco Kober and I think it has a 100Kg spec,I'm towing with the standard self leveling suspension and no problems or issues, in fact miggy's a super tower never a twitch, just think the air bags worked so well it could help the self leveling shocks and springs to bear the extra load, mainly of the lpg tank when full, and my wifes disability buggy, as to the tow bar fixing points, my caravan when in touring mode has a n/weight of 80Kg, I did check the fixing points when I fitted the lpg tank and the torque settings were as when fitted

[feeutfo]

yes I'm retired and do a fair amount of towing, my towbar is an Alco Kober and I think it has a 100Kg spec,I'm towing with the standard self leveling suspension and no problems or issues, in fact miggy's a super tower never a twitch, just think the air bags worked so well it could help the self leveling shocks and springs to bear the extra load, mainly of the lpg tank when full, and my wifes disability buggy, as to the tow bar fixing points, my caravan when in touring mode has a n/weight of 80Kg, I did check the fixing points when I fitted the lpg tank and the torque settings were as when fitted

The way I see it, the air bags will give the sl shocks an easier time, but that's all. Wouldnt nose weight increase have the effect of lifting the cars front wheels off the floor, as will the LPG tank although less so for it's given weight as it's nearer the rear axle than the toe bar(but not directly above it like the saloon).
 Because on an estate the LPG tank is much further behind the centre line of the rear axle than a saloon, I would have thought the max towing nose weight should be reduced.

We have an LPG tank in the load area PLUS the usual load capacity as well. Then adding to the exiting nose weight on the tow bar. There will be less weight on the front steering wheels as a result. Think see saw.... No?

[Cliffo B]

that's correct would think that the front end would lighten up but this is not so I think due to the self leveling of the rear suspension,as Ive already said miggy's a dream towcar its just that I want to reduce towing stresses as much as possible the rear shocks are fairly new if one went when towing? 

[feeutfo]

It's the damping that usually fails on sl shocks. If anything fitting firmer springs would be a better upgrade all round. Less wallowing, better handling while not towing, and less sag when hooked up with better support should sl fail.

Stock springs are known to work with sl.

[Lazydocker]

My saloon was better with good quality standard springs and the s/l shocks

[Cliffo B]

the reason I started to use the airbags on my MV6 was to tow the caravan,
 I originally fitted it with Monroe ride levellers and was disapointed that in doing this the car was no longer an MV6 to drive.
 I'd lost the the car I loved!!
 When driven hard whatever I did with the Monroes they were obviously unable to perform in the same way as the MV6 shocks.
What was needed was a method of assisting the rear springs to cope with the extra load in towing mode and be able to return to MV6 mode.
Back in my Cavalier Mk 2 Estate days I used a product called Auto Ballans which were inflateable balls that were fitted inside the springs to help to cope with extra load.
On enquiry to find if they were still made I found out that inflatable cylinder shaped air bags near enough to the spring internal size were available, these were mainly for beefing up van suspensions.
I was then able to devise a system of inflateing the air bags modelled on the Monroe system.So all that was required was to know the unloaded  car wheelarch height then inflate up to this height when loaded.
 In fact the system worked so well that it was possible to lift the rear end 2"+ more.
 Even when fully loaded.
All that was needed to get my MV6 back was to deflate the air bags back to about 3 psi.
I used the system for nearly 2 yrs up to a deer leaping a hedge on a narrow country road directly into the front of the car when going at high speed which resulted in a right off.
 With my wife and myself in shock it ended my MV6 style motoring there and then talk about the unexpected!!!
 It was so unbelievably  easy to change the cars load bearing qualities and still keep the suspension in std form.
As I removed the complete system before the car went, and I'm happy with the rear springs on Miggy and the only mod req is to chop off the bump stops from the spring bedding rubbers.
As it seems the pressure data I need is'nt available,
I'll go ahead and firstly Tee in to the existing s/l system and possibly read the systems  pressure readings for future reference.
If it's not possible to integrate them I'll revert back to the seperate 12v pump + gauge located in the estate r/h load space lgcker
   

[Kevin Wood]

Remember that the self levelling system is just a sensor which has 2 outputs:

1) Pump (actuated via a relay) to raise the suspension
2) Solenoid valve to lower the suspension

In other words, suck it and see. If the pump is not up to the job, it would be perfectly feasible to replace it with something else, driven by the same ECU. A 12V tyre inflator perhaps? The bleed valve to let the system down again might be more tricky to sort but I'm sure it's possible.

[feeutfo]

Or another angle... Bin the sl shocks but connect the sl pump to the air bladders fitted inside lowered sports chassis (face lift mv6) springs with same lsc spec shocks...?

Gives the ride your happy with, but connect the bladders to the stock sl pump...?

Maybe...?

[Cliffo B]

Thanks Chris,thats good logical thinking!!! 
I think I follow you, what your saying is think about abandoning the useage of inflateable shocks for inflateable spring assisters,
 Which would put extra load stress where it belongs, within the spring and it's mounts,and take it away from the shock mounts.
I think this is a simple thing to check out.
Maybe take away the air supply from the shocks and connect it to the bladders.
Thanks Kevin for your usual expert know how on how the air system works I still have the 12v tyre inflator,gauge and low pressure warning buzzer as used on the MV6 I'll try 1st of all simply as said installing the bladders (excellent wording Chris)then connecting the resident air supply to the bladders and take it from there.
Will of course post up how it goes 

[feeutfo]

Lsc mv6 ride is far superior IMO. Sl shocks, as dampers, are poor by comparison.

Using your air bladders in the springs while towing only might be the answer, as you had before, but connected to the elite sl pump. You could then activat/de activate it when towing by removing or re fitting the relay in the fuse box under steering wheel...?

Or wire in a switch...?  :-/

[Lazydocker]

I'm watching this thread with interest

[feeutfo]

Indeed, if those bladders work, and are available...might suit my purposes as well.