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[TheBoy]

But then somebody who just plods around bring patient and not upsetting their passengers may not have the same issue. Thereby -1.20 might be fine for them...?

Surely, those people would be better served by standard suspension  :-/ - whilst the lowered, stiffer setup remains a comfortable ride while being more capable, it is still compromised compared to std...  ...imho of course.

[feeutfo]

But then somebody who just plods around bring patient and not upsetting their passengers may not have the same issue. Thereby -1.20 might be fine for them...?

Surely, those people would be better served by standard suspension  :-/ - whilst the lowered, stiffer setup remains a comfortable ride while being more capable, it is still compromised compared to std...  ...imho of course.

Seems so to me too. But was hoping to hear it from the hoarses mouth...

And also advise more clearly to those who want to "lower the car purely for appearance".


To me the lower set up is far far more comfortable than any stock set up. If that's purely because it's stiffer, or because it's lower as well...?  I don't know. It's a vast improvement for me though. Job done. 

[TheBoy]

To me the lower set up is far far more comfortable than any stock set up. If that's purely because it's stiffer, or because it's lower as well...?  I don't know. It's a vast improvement for me though. Job done. 

I guess that is the human diversity that I sometimes struggle with.

To me, the std Elite suspension is an absolutely fantastic comfortable cruiser. Just shite when it sees the slightest deviation in direction.

The sports setup, *seems* to be a massive improvement (not had chance to play, as still struggling a bit with my hoof), without overly compromising the comfort. But bumps are still noticable.

[feeutfo]

To me the lower set up is far far more comfortable than any stock set up. If that's purely because it's stiffer, or because it's lower as well...?  I don't know. It's a vast improvement for me though. Job done. 

I guess that is the human diversity that I sometimes struggle with.

To me, the std Elite suspension is an absolutely fantastic comfortable cruiser. Just shite when it sees the slightest deviation in direction.

The sports setup, *seems* to be a massive improvement (not had chance to play, as still struggling a bit with my hoof), without overly compromising the comfort. But bumps are still noticable.

The price I guess will be slightly less comfort and tyre life due to uneven wear. And that wear I presume will be more aggressive on the inside edge the slower it's driven. I.E. Drive faster and roll the tyre onto it's outside shoulder more...?

By that I mean slightly more bump intrusion. But Elites are way too soft IMO. Difficult to keep straight above er .... 80 

[VXL V6]

To me the lower set up is far far more comfortable than any stock set up. If that's purely because it's stiffer, or because it's lower as well...?  I don't know. It's a vast improvement for me though. Job done. 

I guess that is the human diversity that I sometimes struggle with.

To me, the std Elite suspension is an absolutely fantastic comfortable cruiser. Just shite when it sees the slightest deviation in direction.

The sports setup, *seems* to be a massive improvement (not had chance to play, as still struggling a bit with my hoof), without overly compromising the comfort. But bumps are still noticable.

The price I guess will be slightly less comfort and tyre life due to uneven wear. And that wear I presume will be more aggressive on the inside edge the slower it's driven. I.E. Drive faster and roll the tyre onto it's outside shoulder more...?

Depending on the cars use that's going to be a compromise at best. throwing the car around the twisties is going to even out the wear but if your car spends a lot of time as a motorway / dual carriage way cruiser then the balance of wear shifts...

[feeutfo]

To me the lower set up is far far more comfortable than any stock set up. If that's purely because it's stiffer, or because it's lower as well...?  I don't know. It's a vast improvement for me though. Job done. 

I guess that is the human diversity that I sometimes struggle with.

To me, the std Elite suspension is an absolutely fantastic comfortable cruiser. Just shite when it sees the slightest deviation in direction.

The sports setup, *seems* to be a massive improvement (not had chance to play, as still struggling a bit with my hoof), without overly compromising the comfort. But bumps are still noticable.

The price I guess will be slightly less comfort and tyre life due to uneven wear. And that wear I presume will be more aggressive on the inside edge the slower it's driven. I.E. Drive faster and roll the tyre onto it's outside shoulder more...?

Depending on the cars use that's going to be a compromise at best. throwing the car around the twisties is going to even out the wear but if your car spends a lot of time as a motorway / dual carriage way cruiser then the balance of wear shifts...

Yeah I guess that's a factor too ... 

[VXL V6]

So the trade off from fitting and setting up the OOF spec lowered sports chassis is increased tyre wear and more noticable issues with bumps / speedbumps?

So then the issue becomes what tyres meet the requirements but either don't wear so fast (oh dear, harder compound  ) or are cheaper so outweigh the wear rate issue on a £ for wear equation.

What will be the difference in tyre wear between different wheel size / sidewall (thinking flex here) combinations? Significant or not?

[feeutfo]

If driving to a level that needs the set up then softer tyres will be needed to make use of it. With that goes initial extra cost of a sport Orientated tyre, AND the wear to follow.

If fitting 30mill drop and driving like miss daisy I guess any old shite rubber will do...? :-/

[VXL V6]

If driving to a level that needs the set up then softer tyres will be needed to make use of it. With that goes initial extra cost of a sport Orientated tyre, AND the wear to follow.

If fitting 30mill drop and driving like miss daisy I guess any old shite rubber will do...? :-/

Agreed, the second point is the issue that isn't worth investigating IMHO, far better to buy an MV6 setup if you want some middle ground.

The point TB raised and I think KW has mentioned in other threads is that the cost V performance V longetivity balance of a perfomance tyre is something that isn't sustainable to a fair few of us so a compromise needs to sought on an individual basis, that compromise comes down entirely to the weighting we put on each of the three factors.

[wheels-inmotion]

Problem you all has is there's no absolute law on where the geo will be set.

As said for handling the end rear camber positions rule because it's not adjustable and it sets the tyres "saturation limit". Once know the front camber/ castor and toe can be calibrated.

If on the other hand the lowering is simply for looks then it's an open book geo wise.

Another consideration that can reflect owners reporting back after lowering is the dampers.

Lowering coils tend to be of a higher rate due to the fact each helix has less space to compress, there are other factors like maintaining the dampers "bump/ droop" activity within the working range, albeit at the lower end.

Point is, is if the dampers are tired then the coil re-bound is not controlled which is detrimental to the handling.

As negative as this reads i personally feel lowering the sprung chassis is wise? The Omega has a remarkably  long suspension stroke and a very high roll centre, the length of the anti-roll bar drop-link is a visual clue.

Lowering the sprung chassis will improve the ride, not necessarily body roll but the general ride.

[Kevin Wood]

Agreed, the second point is the issue that isn't worth investigating IMHO, far better to buy an MV6 setup if you want some middle ground.

The point TB raised and I think KW has mentioned in other threads is that the cost V performance V longetivity balance of a perfomance tyre is something that isn't sustainable to a fair few of us so a compromise needs to sought on an individual basis, that compromise comes down entirely to the weighting we put on each of the three factors.

Indeed. And driving style plays a big part.  FWIW I think there's a limit to how fast you want to drive an Omega on the road anyway, and therefore how much you actually want it to stick. 

I was struck by that today when I did my commute in the MX 5 for the first time in a very long time. I drive it a lot quicker than the Omega, and enjoy it more. :-/ Maybe because I haven't got 1.7 tonnes to haul up every time I meet someone coming the other way, maybe because it doesn't take up as much road, or it has a nice manual gearbox, or you can start to approach the limits of adhesion and feel what's going on without risking it getting messy. OK, I personally tend to only play on twisties and get bored and ease up when the corners get fast and sweeping or there are roundabouts everywhere. YMMV.

I certainly wouldn't change a thing about the MV6+KU31s setup at the moment, although having rear subframe bushes with rubber attached to them has improved it a lot.

[2woody]

The Omega has a remarkably  long suspension stroke and a very high roll centre, the length of the anti-roll bar drop-link is a visual clue.

don't suppose you know where the Omega roll centres are front and rear do you ?

that would save me a whole lot of measurement.

[2woody]

it'd different things for different people really....

I'm driving my '02 MV6 at the moment and find that excellent - maybe just a little too hard for my liking, but excellent all the same. The thrill of driving for me is to balance the motor car into, through and out of bends, so I generally find lower spring rates give me more controlleability, even on my track cars. Those who know me know that I'm hardly miss daisy. Indeed, I've just recorded my first full week at less than 20mpg when out in the sticks.

I find with pretty much all motor cars that once the roll centres have been moved around, they rarely handle as well as they did before, so this means sticking to the standard ride height at all costs. I haven't done the calsulations yet for Omega B, but I'd be willing to guess that even though the roll moment is resuces, a lower car will skew it's roll centres to such an extent that it'll roll more.

Because so many of my cars have this suspension system on them, I'm toying with the idea of building a proper geometry map for them. So, if anyone does know what the "official" roll centres are, I'd be glad to hear from them.

[feeutfo]

For 30mill drop, suspect a basic camber guide might be...

Miss daisy or steady a to b driving 1.10 to 1.20
Fast motorway with enthusiastic slip roads and roundabouts 1.20 to 1.30
Fast twisties included 1.30 to 1.40

Maybe?

[feeutfo]

For 30mill drop, suspect a basic camber guide might be...

Miss daisy or steady a to b driving 1.10 to 1.20
Fast motorway with enthusiastic slip roads and roundabouts 1.20 to 1.30
Fast twisties included 1.30 to 1.40

Maybe?

Provided the rear will match the front I guess. I still don't understand the rear tie rod mechanics of affecting toe and camber. Probably because I haven't had to do any work in that area.