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[Entwood]

I know this is pure guesswork .. but looking at the photo's of the crash, it appears to be right where the slip road joins the motorway ..... my recent experiences suggest that 90% of drivers have no idea how to CORRECTLY join a motorway, ignore the "give way" road markings and just drive into lane one regardless .. if you don't move (can't move) they cause you to brake.

Given the lorries, the reports of fog, and the fact it was dark, I wonder if some idiot just barrelled their way on causing a lorry to brake or swerve and everyone else just ran into the back of whatever was in front, certainly the fire appears to be some way back from the front of the pile up.

I find it stupid that motorway driving is not part of any "test" .... you pass the test and can instantly cause mayhem on the fastest roads in the country, untrained and unsupervised.

Some motorway training should be compulsory IMHO.

I hope I'm wrong and the crash was not caused by such simple stupidity ..

My thoughts and prayers are with the injured and the relatives of those who died... 

[Andy B]

....... my recent experiences suggest that 90% of drivers have no idea how to CORRECTLY join a motorway, ignore the "give way" road markings and just drive into lane one regardless .. if you don't move (can't move) they cause you to brake. ....

Agreed. I've come across very few slip roads that don't give you enough distance to get to something like motor way speed before you need to move into lane 1, but as you suggest, they just pull onto the motor & then accelerate. 

[CaptainZok]

It's hardly a new phenomenon though is it.
When I was driving artics I used to lose count of the number of idiots who got to the end of the slip to find 40 foot of trailer there and ended up running along the hard shoulder.
There seemed to be some suggestion of a firework display distracting motorists on the news earlier.
Combination of the two maybe?

[Cliffo B]

Oh dear this is a very bad one!!!
"THERE BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD GO I"
Let's not forget one of the first rules of motorway driveing was "the danger is mostly from behind"
I must confess that I would find it most difficult to slow down immediately when suddenly confronted with fog when on a straight road
It's a problem I think without an answer perhaps sounding the horn while slowing down useing the footbrake to gain assistance from the brakelights may help
But not insurance from a bad rear ender

[tigers_gonads]

In situations like that, I always stick my hazard lights on if I have to brake hard and I know they are cars flying up behind me 

[feeutfo]

That's a very good point actually Entwood, very possible I guess.

Been meaning to post separately, about slip road driving, on here for a while. I guess we all do what we think is correct, or try to where possible. But everyone does it differently it seems to me. Matching the speed of the motorway traffic while on the slip road seems to be bottom of the list, in favor of darting across 5 lanes to lane 3 from lane 1 of the slip road at the top of the list.

As said I don't think any Joe public has been trained to drive on a Motorway...? A ridiculous situation. I often wonder about an advanced driving course, or further training, but what's the point if everyone else drives in a random manor, so to speak?

Anyway, hope they get to the bottom of it, and that improvements are made to prevent it happening again where possible.

[Lazydocker]

Tragic as this all is, it angers me that the "Road Safety Groups" have jumped on it as a reason to keep or even reduce the limits

There should, IMHO, be a similar rule adopted to that of a chunk of Euroland... Fair weather limits (or not ) and bad weather limits.

My thoughts are with the friends and families and people involved in this tragedy, including the ones who now have to clean it all up. I, like many others here, have had to deal with the unpleasant side of fatal accidents

[pscocoa]

Tragic as this all is, it angers me that the "Road Safety Groups" have jumped on it as a reason to keep or even reduce the limits

There should, IMHO, be a similar rule adopted to that of a chunk of Euroland... Fair weather limits (or not ) and bad weather limits.

My thoughts are with the friends and families and people involved in this tragedy, including the ones who now have to clean it all up. I, like many others here, have had to deal with the unpleasant side of fatal accidents

I agree with all your points. If it is correct that freak conditions suddenly manifested themselves then we need to fully understand what happened rather than immediately blaming speed limits. I suspect when the truth is out we will hear if fog warnings were showing or not and what the general speed of the traffic was. If you hit a wall of smoke or fog and it is a complete shock how can you be expected to drive on a basis that this could happen at any time.

Driving at a speed not commensurate with the conditions is reckless and deerves heavy punishment. 80 mph for today's cars is absolutely fine. I did Manchester and back yesterday = 420 miles and everyone clearly comfortable around that speed (and quicker) - only a couple of idiots weaving as usual and the assorted middle lane huggers you can cope with if you do not get hot under the collar.

[tunnie]

Would not be surprised if the "fog" they drove into was smoke from firework display. I saw one about a mile away from my flat, after they finished the entire area was in a blanket of mist/fog.

[aaronjb]

in favor of darting across 5 lanes to lane 3 from lane 1 of the slip road at the top of the list.

Oh those do get my goat.. I was behind someone like that the other day on a sliproad - they joined the motorway at ~50mph and promptly swung straight through lane 1 and sat in lane 2 at 50 without a care in the world 

I don't know about anyone else but when I was learning to drive the instructor regularly (every day) took me down a dual carriageway and made me merge on at the same speed as the other traffic, if I didn't I got yelled at - and rightly so!

[Osprey]

Would not be surprised if the "fog" they drove into was smoke from firework display. I saw one about a mile away from my flat, after they finished the entire area was in a blanket of mist/fog.

The police seem to agree with you, according to the BBC.  Smoke from a local rugby club bonfire and fireworks. 

Anyone feel some manslaughter charges in the offing?   

[hotel21]

Supposition and bad sums (2+2=27) are renouned to be the mother of all snaff-ups....

Until the official 'official' crash investigators viewpoint is submitted to the prosecution services/coroner (dont really know the english system, TBH, its the Procurator Fiscal up here, no coroner system) its purely out loud thinking and guesswork by the great unwashed such as us.  Phone cameras can be both a help and a hinderance in such circumstances.

The crash investigator of the case (my extreme sympathies for the enormity of the task in front of them, used to be employed in the same grisly task) will be the only - and I mean ONLY - person with access to all statements, information, post mortem info, crash info, maps and the FACTS. 

Where such sad and well reported cases can and do play a part in general road safety is to be a clarion call to us all to re-examine our driving style and habits and to perhaps adjust them back into a more conservative or safety concious standpoint.

We all like to enjoy speed/performance/handling/stability/me versus the elements driving but.....

..... lets all have a wee think. 

Life is, sadly, too short.  No need to hasten its end.  The fella in the halloween cloak and knife on a stick awaits us all.

 

[Dishevelled Den]

Life is, sadly, too short.  No need to hasten its end.  The fella in the halloween cloak and knife on a stick awaits us all.

 

Amen to that B.

[hotel21]

Life is, sadly, too short.  No need to hasten its end.  The fella in the halloween cloak and knife on a stick awaits us all.

 

Amen to that B.

Just knew it would be your good self that would be the first to respond to my post Den.

 

[millwall]

regardless of how or why it happened it was a sad day for all the famalies and im sure many would agree our thoughts are with them