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[Lazydocker]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-16786369

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/9051569/Network-Rail-pleads-guilty-over-girls-deaths.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2094340/Network-Rail-admits-health-safety-breach-Essex-level-crossing-deaths.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/15929209

Yes, it cannot be denied that the reports existed. Or that they didn't bring them into the open/hid them.

But the fact remains that the girls chose to ignore the posted signs, lights, sirens and the fact the barriers were down and cross the tracks without looking. The blame cannot be entirely heaped at NR door when there were safety devices in place that they chose to ignore

[TheBoy]

Don't know about others, but as a kid, i did some pretty stupid things. At the time it was a laugh. You got away with it and no one (or yourself) got hurt. When you get older, you realize how stupid your actions were and are grateful to have the privilege of life experience.

Too true. And when it did go wrong, and my little bro and I got hurt, Dad would make it hurt more, and tell us it was our own stupid fault. Not go complaining to the building site manager that they should prevent us being able to get onto the site (I grew up on a building site, a kids dream playground, much to the annoyance of the workers, who would give us a good clip around the ear when they caught us - again Dad would do likewise, rather than report the workman for abuse or whatever crap some parents would do now if little johnny got a hiding for misbehaving).

[hotel21]

Sad though this event is, we must find a donkey to pin the tail on.

Once we distill all the info around this down into basic fractions and its bottom line, the deceased MUST shoulder a greater proportion - if not all - the blame. 

Yes, railtrack should have been potentially more reponsible in having fences 2 or 3 metres higher around the rails.  Yes, they should have had some kind of interlock on the gate to prevent unsafe progress.  Yes, parents (and schools, heaven forbid) should have instilled a greater sense of self preservation on said deceased.

But, to be blunt, the (sadly) deceased should have used a small portion of the brains they were born with and assessed whether what they were collectively doing that day was going to get them cut/burnt/slapped/squished.  And acted accordingly.

Apologies to those to whom I appear hard hearted but I have also had to attend 300 yard plus locii and use marked binbags to ensure the correct burnt/stretched/squished bits get repatriated to correct families.

And yes, I support the Darwin awards.... 

Will say nowt more on this.   

[D]

Albs, the whole situation is tragic. However to continue to cross when the lights and sirens are still flashing/blaring with an assumption that there are no further trains was a risk that these children took. As a parent I can not even begin to imagine the grief that afflicts a family in a situation like this. I have also seen families in these circumstances chase something else in the hope of transferring/placing guilt on something or someone else. Its quite common.

The question is how far can we nanny people around. I remember being 6 and bring told never to cross when the level crossing lights were flashing. Or when the pedestrian light was red. I dont cross red lights period. Yet teenagers and adults (esp in London) choose to cross when there are clear signs shouting do not cross! Should we be putting locked gates at pedestrian crossings next. After all more people get run over by cars than by trains and surely this would be the area to focus?

These were not 5 or 6 yr olds, they were older children who would have been hopefully taught to be responsible and careful and the way I understand it is that they choose to ignore very clear signs. I do apologise if I have got that bit wrong, but I have not been able to read all the details in that report. I am sure NR had shortcomings but placing everything on them is not correct in my view.

Yes we all make mistakes when we are young, most survive, some dont, its the way of life.

The saddest part is probably the train driver who had no fault at all but will have to live with this till the end.

[jonnycool]

Don't know about others, but as a kid, i did some pretty stupid things. At the time it was a laugh. You got away with it and no one (or yourself) got hurt. When you get older, you realize how stupid your actions were and are grateful to have the privilege of life experience.

Too true. And when it did go wrong, and my little bro and I got hurt, Dad would make it hurt more, and tell us it was our own stupid fault. Not go complaining to the building site manager that they should prevent us being able to get onto the site (I grew up on a building site, a kids dream playground, much to the annoyance of the workers, who would give us a good clip around the ear when they caught us - again Dad would do likewise, rather than report the workman for abuse or whatever crap some parents would do now if little johnny got a hiding for misbehaving).

I'm glad somebody said this, I completely agree - we lived in fear of what our parents would do to us if we did something wrong when we were out and about as kids, or in school. There would be no question of our parents arguing with a teacher, if we did something wrong in school we were in for a hiding or grounding. This is the attitude that I've adopted for our kids as well. I'm pretty much on my own though 

[D]

I'm glad somebody said this, I completely agree - we lived in fear of what our parents would do to us if we did something wrong when we were out and about as kids, or in school. There would be no question of our parents arguing with a teacher, if we did something wrong in school we were in for a hiding or grounding. This is the attitude that I've adopted for our kids as well. I'm pretty much on my own though 

Agree, you need to be responsible for your actions. Nowadays if a teacher rebukes a student they would probably loose their job. Which I think directly reflects on the general state of affairs/recent public behaviour during the riots.

Sorry if I am digressing.

[Seth]

Don't know about others, but as a kid, i did some pretty stupid things. At the time it was a laugh. You got away with it and no one (or yourself) got hurt. When you get older, you realize how stupid your actions were and are grateful to have the privilege of life experience.

Too true. And when it did go wrong, and my little bro and I got hurt, Dad would make it hurt more, and tell us it was our own stupid fault. Not go complaining to the building site manager that they should prevent us being able to get onto the site (I grew up on a building site, a kids dream playground, much to the annoyance of the workers, who would give us a good clip around the ear when they caught us - again Dad would do likewise, rather than report the workman for abuse or whatever crap some parents would do now if little johnny got a hiding for misbehaving).

I'm glad somebody said this, I completely agree - we lived in fear of what our parents would do to us if we did something wrong when we were out and about as kids, or in school. There would be no question of our parents arguing with a teacher, if we did something wrong in school we were in for a hiding or grounding. This is the attitude that I've adopted for our kids as well. I'm pretty much on my own though

No you're not dear boy .......... the same responsible [grand]parental approach is apparent here.
And I have to deal with some of these miscreants for a living ............ 

Several of my colleagues have been involved in similar fatalities, and one was so badly affected that he never returned to work. Whilst the aftermath of such an incident is certainly devastating, it's also devastating to see your colleagues completely traumatised.

[cem_devecioglu]

must say I cant be objective on these subjects.. I have lost my 18 year old cousin (she was about to marry) on a similiar traffic accident when she was passing the road ..   she was coming back from another city searching for job..

Its a skill & curse I have learnt, being able to step back and try to see things from everyone's viewpoint.

Whilst it can be extremely useful in some scenarios, esp in my working life, it can also make one appear heartless and cold.

must say not easy.. I personally cant..
 
however, once you live in an event like this one, - wish no one will face- you simply cant accept for long time..
 
 

[albitz]

now you will laugh, but when in London the signs "Look right" saved my arse many times

There ya go see. Don't get that in Europe for us pondy Brits do we...?

I've never got knocked down in Europe either (probably will now ). My brother's youngest nearly did 6 or 7yrs ago - was too busy playing on a handheld gayStation, was just about to walk out into a busy road without looking, fortunately we saw what was happening with about a yard to go.  Absolutely no common sense (then).

Too many posts to try to answer(although Im seriously tempted to mention the very fast back pedalling when the ban was mentioned) ,but - in reply to the highlighted part above.If you hadnt seen what was about to happen and the kid had stepped into the road and got killed.I presume your over riding feeling about the incident would have been "survival of the fittest.If your too stupid to cross prematurely and not look,then that can only have been a good thing for the seriously deplenished gene pool" ? If not,then why not ?

[hotel21]

Not sure where your understanding of the ban/backpeddling goes Albs.  You are not in the frame for that one this time.   

[hotel21]

I presume your over riding feeling about the incident would have been "survival of the fittest.If your too stupid to cross prematurely and not look,then that can only have been a good thing for the seriously deplenished gene pool" ? If not,then why not ?

I have to say, personally, that I agree with the survival of the fittest type scenario, unfortunately.  Goes back to the biblical 'reap what you sow' type thinking.  If parents/grandparents/rellies cannot instill basic survival techniques in their progeny, why should the state take on the reponsibility on their behalf?  Just means that the forbears rest on the collective family laurels and watch someone else take on their responsibilities - then bleat when it goes Pete Tong.

[Rods2]

It is a sad fact of life that the most dangerous thing we all do every day is travelling around where a few seconds inattention, making a wrong or bad decision, or just being plain unlucky by being in the wrong place at the wrong time, can cost you or a third party their lives.

It is very sad, that two 14 year old girls paid the ultimate price and their families have had to suffer the consequences, that they broke the rules that you should NEVER cross a railway crossing when the lights and sirens are sounding. The bad decision was that they assumed the lights and sirens were sounding for their train stopped in the station and not also for one coming in the opposite direction. We all make mistakes in life and it is very sad when it results in deaths.

Is network rail guilty of this as they broke the rules IMHO no. But I think it is totally unacceptable for an organisation to hide and information relevant to the case and what lessons can be learn from it and improvements made, but in this must blame somebody, claim compensation culture, people and companies are going to try to cover their butts. In this culture, an entirely justifiable defence, is no longer considered acceptable, which is that they have a finite budget and have to use their judgement on where to allocate resources, which might have been right or wrong in this case. We are now seeing this sort of perversion of justice as a result of this culture. If we had a sensible system, then all of this could and should be out in the open from day one, so the coroner could make objective conclusions. Unfortunately in this I must blame / fine / compensation culture we now live in, common sense and sensible justice are now out of the window, so we are getting the sort of justice, this perversion of society encourages and deserves.

What has been forgotten is that infinite safety costs infinite money and is of course impossible, so we must accept with a finite amount of money is available for a finite amount of safety and under these conditions, judgments and decisions have to be made.

[jaykay]

What has been forgotten is that infinite safety costs infinite money and is of course impossible, so we must accept with a finite amount of money is available for a finite amount of safety and under these conditions, judgments and decisions have to be made.

Well said, i could not agree more

[tidla]

It is a sad fact of life that the most dangerous thing we all do every day is travelling around where a few seconds inattention, making a wrong or bad decision, or just being plain unlucky by being in the wrong place at the wrong time, can cost you or a third party their lives.

It is very sad, that two 14 year old girls paid the ultimate price and their families have had to suffer the consequences, that they broke the rules that you should NEVER cross a railway crossing when the lights and sirens are sounding. The bad decision was that they assumed the lights and sirens were sounding for their train stopped in the station and not also for one coming in the opposite direction. We all make mistakes in life and it is very sad when it results in deaths.

Is network rail guilty of this as they broke the rules IMHO no. But I think it is totally unacceptable for an organisation to hide and information relevant to the case and what lessons can be learn from it and improvements made, but in this must blame somebody, claim compensation culture, people and companies are going to try to cover their butts. In this culture, an entirely justifiable defence, is no longer considered acceptable, which is that they have a finite budget and have to use their judgement on where to allocate resources, which might have been right or wrong in this case. We are now seeing this sort of perversion of justice as a result of this culture. If we had a sensible system, then all of this could and should be out in the open from day one, so the coroner could make objective conclusions. Unfortunately in this I must blame / fine / compensation culture we now live in, common sense and sensible justice are now out of the window, so we are getting the sort of justice, this perversion of society encourages and deserves.

What has been forgotten is that infinite safety costs infinite money and is of course impossible, so we must accept with a finite amount of money is available for a finite amount of safety and under these conditions, judgments and decisions have to be made.

As they say in time of bad weather conditions, "don't travel unless absolutely necessary" will soon be quoted, every day of the week.

[D]

now you will laugh, but when in London the signs "Look right" saved my arse many times

There ya go see. Don't get that in Europe for us pondy Brits do we...?

I've never got knocked down in Europe either (probably will now ). My brother's youngest nearly did 6 or 7yrs ago - was too busy playing on a handheld gayStation, was just about to walk out into a busy road without looking, fortunately we saw what was happening with about a yard to go.  Absolutely no common sense (then).

Too many posts to try to answer(although Im seriously tempted to mention the very fast back pedalling when the ban was mentioned) ,but - in reply to the highlighted part above.If you hadnt seen what was about to happen and the kid had stepped into the road and got killed.I presume your over riding feeling about the incident would have been "survival of the fittest.If your too stupid to cross prematurely and not look,then that can only have been a good thing for the seriously deplenished gene pool" ? If not,then why not ?

Agreed, but then there would be a phase where you would try to transfer the guilt onto someone/something else, be it the highway authority for not fixing barriers, etc etc. Is that the right thing to do though?