Topic: ABS ECU (Read 3708 times)

Ryan Hegarty · « **on:** 06 August 2009, 01:42:23 »

Hello all - Just bought the year 2000 2.5 V6 Omega Elite Estate that I had been thinking about in my last post I think it does need an ABS ECU as the ABS and TC lights are on and no speedo although steering is ok, can anyone give me any info on how to get it repaired and what it is that actually goes wrong with it - also any info on how to remove and replace would be great, also does it need to be reprogrammed for the car if it is repaired?
Almost forgot, the paper clip test shows fault code 19.

Thanks in advance.

GastronomicKleptomaniac · « **Reply #1 on:** 06 August 2009, 04:07:05 »

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1152729807/2#2

Usually costs about £125 to get repaired, by sending it away to a company...

dbug · « **Reply #2 on:** 06 August 2009, 08:30:12 »

ABS ECU swap fiddly job but doable. If going 2nd hand route get one from same year and same model to avoid need for Tech2 session.

Code 19 is dodgy crank sensor.

Platinum1 · « **Reply #3 on:** 06 August 2009, 13:03:06 »

Hello all - Just bought the year 2000 2.5 V6 Omega Elite Estate.

Ryan,

I feel for you mate, probably the worse thing (appart from a cam belt) to go on the car. Mine is taking me over a month now to get sorted out, cost me nearly a grand now and it is still not fixed. 3 garages don't know why after being repaired once by BBA Reman for 125 quid. The unit was sent back to reman 4 days ago and they have called me an hour ago to say that the unit is fine. WELL IF IT IS FINE THEN WHY IS THE P*XY T/C LIGHT STILL COMING ON THEN!!!

I have said it before on previous posts, Vauxhall and every other mechanic knows diddly squat about these abs/ecu unit problems and just fob you off with diatribe.

Sorry, very angry today

does not help you I know but I would not wish this problem on anyone.

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #4 on:** 06 August 2009, 13:37:12 »

Quote

I have said it before on previous posts, Vauxhall and every other mechanic knows diddly squat about these abs/ecu unit problems and just fob you off with diatribe.

Yes, this is true. Most systems on a car are well beyond today's mechanic.

However, replacing the ECU, whilst fiddly, is not a huge job, the ECUs can be refurbed with a good success rate and this is normally the end of the story.

Your experience is not typical and points to something else being wrong. You nave a working ECU now, so the next step would be to get the codes read from it and find out what it's not happy with IMO.

Kevin

Ryan Hegarty · « **Reply #5 on:** 06 August 2009, 17:31:40 »

Good day to all here - I'm working at the Omega estate today and have been checking the connections to the ABS sensors in the front wheels and have found they both read about 1.6 kohms - is this right?
Also it would appear that the front drivers side wheel bearing is knackered, when driving the car if I steer slightly to the right the noise from the bearing stops could this confirm it as being front drivers side - also is there any other way of checking the bearings.
Thanks

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #6 on:** 06 August 2009, 17:36:04 »

Best way to check bearings is to jack the wheel up and feel for play, and for roughness when rotated.

If both sensors are the same resistance I'd say the likelihood is they are OK.

Kevin

Ryan Hegarty · « **Reply #7 on:** 06 August 2009, 17:42:00 »

Thanks Kevin have tried jacking up car and feeling for play and roughness but they all seem fine but on the road theres a loud whining noise that goes away when I veer to the right.

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #8 on:** 06 August 2009, 17:44:19 »

Does the noise disappear under braking too? Thinking it might be a feathered edge on a brake pad.

Wheel bearings typically rumble when tired IME.

Kevin

Ryan Hegarty · « **Reply #9 on:** 06 August 2009, 17:49:49 »

Nope, definately a wheel bearing - past experiences of this noise LOL.

splott · « **Reply #10 on:** 06 August 2009, 19:13:02 »

Quote

Thanks Kevin have tried jacking up car and feeling for play and roughness but they all seem fine but on the road theres a loud whining noise that goes away when I veer to the right.

You will probably find its a rear bearing as the weight/drive is on the left hand rear bearing when you veer to the right. Does the noise go if you take a long right corner? If it does and the front bearings seem OK then it is a rear bearing!

Ryan Hegarty · « **Reply #11 on:** 06 August 2009, 19:31:09 »

Back again I have cleaned the rear abs sensors, they were fairly dirty but no luck sorting out problem, I'm having a go at doing the same with the fronts but I'm finding them very difficult to remove - is there any set way of removing them?

Thanks Splott i'll check the rear wheel also.

Ryan Hegarty · « **Reply #12 on:** 06 August 2009, 21:05:41 »

Back again, have used a multimeter and have tested all four sensors while turning the wheels and all sensor are ok - is there any other things that I can check before repairing the ecu - also is there any method of testing the ecu without tech 2, similar to the paperclip test for the OBD.

Ryan Hegarty · « **Reply #13 on:** 07 August 2009, 00:05:15 »

When checking sensors I noticed that the rear drivers side sensor was very dirty could that perhaps have caused the fault and if so does the fault clear by itself after a drive and is this sensor the one that sends the info to the speedo.
Removing ECU looks to be a big enough task.

Can the car be driven without an ECU in place?

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #14 on:** 07 August 2009, 09:39:45 »

Quote

When checking sensors I noticed that the rear drivers side sensor was very dirty could that perhaps have caused the fault and if so does the fault clear by itself after a drive and is this sensor the one that sends the info to the speedo.
Removing ECU looks to be a big enough task.
Can the car be driven without an ECU in place?

If it were a sensor problem than it should have cleared the fault straight away. The sensors still work when quite dirty. It doesn't affect them as much as you might think.

It sounds to me like you have an ECU failure.

Removing the ECU is awkward but not too bad once you get a few items out of the way.

The car will drive without the ecu fitted with no abs, tc, cruise control, speed sensitive steering or speedo. I guess an insurance assessor might take a dim view of it, but it's no worse in practice than having a knackered ECU fitted. In some respects it's better because you know the steering assist isn't suddenly going to change.

Kevin

Ryan Hegarty · « **Reply #15 on:** 07 August 2009, 11:39:59 »

I'm going to remove the ecu today - after taking out the screws does it just slide out and is there any advice you would give? When out can the unit be opened, was reading on another site that it's usually a bad connection from the mainboard to the connector - has anyone any experience of this?

Jimbob · « **Reply #16 on:** 07 August 2009, 11:47:53 »

yes, can be awkward to open, as glued shut, its connectors on a very fine ribbon that let go.

amba · « **Reply #17 on:** 07 August 2009, 13:14:45 »

Ryan....I would be curious to hear how you got on removing the old ABS ecu and how long it took and any further advise to be added to Kevin,s very informative guide.
I have what appears to be an identical problem whereby sometimes the abs/tc light both come on and then the speedo stops.Other times the lights come on but speedo works and others all works fine as normal,so expect it is the last dying gasps of the ecu.
As I live within walking distance of BBA reman,I gave them a call and wa advised that they operate a stricked policy of receipt/repair and have quoted me 4 working days upon receipt to check out and advise of potential repair costs.Was told that if fault is electrical would be £100 + carriage(not required in my case) +vat.
I intend to remove old unit at some point next week dependant on my available time and guidance of expected work time to remove,and then put back together for period of repair,and cover over with foam as again advised by Kevin.
Hopefully mine and yours will only be electrical faults and can be repaired within the time and cost as advised by BBA.

Ryan Hegarty · « **Reply #18 on:** 07 August 2009, 17:00:47 »

Removed the Ecu (only needed to remove the rad hose and battery to get screws out) with the help of a flexi extension - bottom hose clip is a curse, pulled out ecu and removed the little black cover which is glued on checked connections there and all was ok give it a good spray with contact cleaner, refitted cover and sealed it shut. Out of curiosity I refitted it to the car with just two screws connected all up and started car - was delighted to see abs and tc lights going out so I turned off ignition and restarted it all still ok - so turned it off again guckly (didn't have rad hose connected so just a few seconds at a time).
So I decided to put in the other screws and connect rad hose and battery - restarted engine and (you guessed it) abs and tc lights back on.
I have tried putting leverage on the main connector and while doing so the lights go out again, let go and they come back on, so have come to conclusion that it's a bad connection at the main connector.
So only thing for it is to send it off or try and source a second hand one somewhere.
All in it took me about 3 hours to remove and refit including the time fiddling about with it, and I feel that it's a job that most mechanically minded people could do.

amba · « **Reply #19 on:** 07 August 2009, 17:25:36 »

Looks like I will be following your lead sometime next week then.Did you find it easier to get at the 4 invisible screws with a flexible screw extention or the angled driver head as shown in Kevin,s write-up.
Also out of curiosity did your abs/tc light stay on permenantly or do they come on and off as the mood takes them?

Ryan Hegarty · « **Reply #20 on:** 07 August 2009, 17:29:28 »

Used the flexi extension for them all (couldn't have done it without it), Lights were on all the time.

amba · « **Reply #21 on:** 07 August 2009, 18:29:52 »

Think I will get a flexy extention as well from screwfix...I bought the angled jobbie in Kevin,s post but might be good to have the additional bit of kit "just in case".

Ryan Hegarty · « **Reply #22 on:** 07 August 2009, 18:37:16 »

Took old one off again took me about twenty minutes this time (has to be a record - LOL), local scrappy has one for me says he'll take about a £100 for the unit complete with the pump(i'll try him at £75) should take no more than thirty mins or so to refit, collecting it tomorrow so i'll update you then on my progress.
The one from the scrappy is off a v6 auto, he's not sure if it's a 2.5 or a 3.0 but says it will fit for sure (he checked his computer) he also thinks I won't need to reprogramme it - is this right?

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #23 on:** 07 August 2009, 19:41:17 »

For £100 I would get yours refurbed, TBH. :-/ Then you know it won't fail again and no worries about compatibility.

IIRC, they do have a setting for engine size. Unlikely to make a huge difference if it's wrong though.

Kevin

Ryan Hegarty · « **Reply #24 on:** 07 August 2009, 19:58:22 »

My ecu is part number 0273 004 206, can any other ecu's be used (eg. a 0273 004 207) in it's place?

Platinum1 · « **Reply #25 on:** 08 August 2009, 10:23:37 »

Your experience is not typical and points to something else being wrong. You nave a working ECU now, so the next step would be to get the codes read from it and find out what it's not happy with IMO.

Kevin,

Point taken mate but this is costing me more than the car is worth now so can understand the frustration!. Latest update is that the unit is back from Remann who said that they found no faults at all after they repaired it the first time. The garage has got it to fit today. I just hope that when they fit it back on the t/c light does not come on, I don't know why I am hoping for that as all the has happened is that the unit has been removed again sent to reman "again" and re-fitted again!

I don't know what to do if the light is still on, let's asume that the abs unit is repaired and all ok, does anyone know why the t/c light is still on, that first garage that looked at it before the unit went to Remann tested the sensors and all was ok, what is let to check if the light is still on? (Remann said and I quote " it may be a fuse that is blown"

oh, Pleeeeeeeeasssssssssssse!

I did do a paper clip test the day before it went in but wrote the fault on a bit of paper and "can I find that now". I will see if this third garage can get any codes come up if the t/c light is still on. If not I think a can of petrol and a match will be my cheapest option tbh , shame that a light on a dashboard can effectively write a car off, anyone want a mint 2000, 2.5 Elite with a t/c light on.

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #26 on:** 08 August 2009, 11:03:29 »

OK. If the ABS ECU is OK the next step is to check it for fault codes. You can't do that with a paperclip test but I would expect the garage to have a code reader that can. See if they'll read the codes and post them up here and we'll see if we can help.

Kevin

Platinum1 · « **Reply #27 on:** 08 August 2009, 11:18:11 »

Thanks Kevin, will do, if they can read anything off it that is!

Ryan Hegarty · « **Reply #28 on:** 08 August 2009, 23:27:52 »

Hi there Platinum1 could it be possible that your ABS ECU was sent back to you with it's programming for the car erased - I understand from a previous post by Jimbob (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1152729807/2#2) that if your ECU is not programmed with the engine and gearbox settings the TC light will remain on but your ABS light will go out - just a thought.

Just an update about my own car I went this morning to the scrappy to pick up the ABS ECU that they had and it was exactly the part I needed, he supplied it complete with pump and we did the deal for £60 all in, with a 6 month warranty (bit of negotiating required), got home and fitted the ECU to the car, took 20 mins top (had the old one removed to be fair), started car and happy days ABS & TC lights went off.
All in this ended up costing me £60 and I expect to sell the pump for around £30 on ebay as it wasn't needed.
Goes to show this problem can be repaired very cheaply with minimal mechanical experience and of course the help of other members from this site, also I would recommend that you buy a flexi extension if you haven't got one.

I only needed to remove the battery and the rad hose to gain access to the ECU and it took me about an hour or so to do the repair (took me longer to go and get the part from scrappy - LOL), it was the flexi extension that made it a lot easier.
I would also add that I have very little mechanical experience (although I am a fully trained spark), so I would suggest that if you can service your own car, you should be able to change an ECU.
If anyone ever needs any help with this repair just mail me and if you can come to me i'll change it for you.

Many thanks to all who replied.

amba · « **Reply #29 on:** 09 August 2009, 09:27:58 »

Ryan...thats great news and I am pleased you got it all working with the minimum of cost.
Several questions I would appreciate your comments on:
1).what sort of flexy drive did you find best.
2).I assume it is the year and model of car that is important for buying a second hand ECU,as apposed to the part number on your existing unit..reason I ask is looks like part number is on a sticker on reverse side of cover and can only be read with existing removed..so that way you could buy a second hand unit prior to removing yours sure in the knowledge it will fit(and hopefully work)..that way its an easier take to bits and put back together again in one go.

Finally you said earlier that both your abs/tc lights were on all the time?..mine is intermitent ,sometimes not at all for a day or so. I am wondering if this could be a loose connection in the wiring plug.

Thanks alot

Ryan Hegarty · « **Reply #30 on:** 09 August 2009, 14:11:15 »

The flexi extension used was similar to this one - [url http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LASER-QUICK-CHUCK-EXTENSION-FLEXI-300MM-3412_W0QQitemZ320281315636QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item4a92410934&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14] [/url], this ones a bit longer than mine so should be better to work with, I would also think that cheaper could be found elsewhere.
Yip I would think that the engine size and gearbox type would be the two main factors in getting the right part also if you have your chassis number handy the part that would be fitted to your car will be easier to identify - my car has the same engine and gearbox as yours on a year 2000 plate so I would imagine that yours would be the same as mine, the part number for mine is 0273 004 206 I took mine off to be sure, also the car will still drive with it off, you'll just have no ABS, TC, power steering or speedo but at least you'll be aware that they aren't working instead of them failing without warning.
The reason yours is ok at times is due to the connections making and then breaking contact due to vibration/corrosion, eventually they'll break contact permanently.
Hope this helps.

amba · « **Reply #31 on:** 10 August 2009, 06:56:33 »

Ryan...I found the screwfix catalogue and they do the same bit of kit for £7=00 so will get one sorted out this morning.
Thanks for your help and advise,will post up my results once done.

amba · « **Reply #32 on:** 13 August 2009, 11:34:55 »

Just an update and a word of warning for others attempting this.
After spending the entire day yesterday trying to get at and remove those screws holding the abs ecu to the pump,I am sorry to say I have given up and accepted defeat.It would appear that in a "previous life" the large black plug has been damaged and is impossible to remove without the complete removal of the entire pump assemly,as the retaining lugs have been broken and the plug will not move.
Today the car is at a local repairers having the pump removed ,as I understand once off the system requires bleeding with the aid of a Tech 2 and it would not be possible to call on a local Admin due to the lack of brakes.I am now waiting the call to let me know it is sorted and then I will be taking the ecu direct to BBA for a diagnostic check and a hopefull repair....then after repaired(I hope ) back next week to garage to have it refitted....looks like I will be a bit lighter in the wallet now.
Any body an idea of labour time to remove pump and refit in man hours including brake bleed.?
Will report back when all fixed....I hope.!!!

Ryan Hegarty · « **Reply #33 on:** 13 August 2009, 12:02:58 »

That's unfortunate but the large plug should have been removed first (if it could have been) as it allows for better access to the bottom screws, at the least you would have saved the time at the screws, it's a pity it didn't work out for you but I hope you have it sorted with minimal expense, I feel you are looking at a day or so's labour, you would be better to get a quote first, at least then you know where you stand.
Good luck mate.

amba · « **Reply #34 on:** 13 August 2009, 12:32:16 »

Ryan....car was at garage this morning at 8.30am and guy rang at 11.00 to say no option but to remove entire pump as he couldn,t remove plug either.Just waiting for call now to say all off/brakes bleed and wallet opened..then up to BBA,so hoping I can get some work done today to cover abit of the costs.
Oh well atleast it will be nice not to have those lights coming on and off.........bit of masking tape over them would have been cheaper though.

Ryan Hegarty · « **Reply #35 on:** 13 August 2009, 13:26:53 »

bit of masking tape over them would have been cheaper though - LOL.
Have a good haggle with him hopefully he'll knock a bit off for you - good luck.

amba · « **Reply #36 on:** 13 August 2009, 14:51:13 »

Garage said 3 hours labour to remove abs pump,take off ecu and put all back together including bleeding brakes etc.
Just taken unit to BBA and they said would ring in couple of days with verdict and expected cost,then will expect a couple more hours to put it back,though expect refit will be cheaper as might not require pump off again.(lets hope so)
It appears in the rush to get the unit off and to BBA the 6 little T15 screws have gone walkabout.
If anybody has a spare set I would be gratefull just incase we don,t find them before the proposed refit.
Pm me if you have them and I will provide beer tokens.
Thanks

Ryan Hegarty · « **Reply #37 on:** 13 August 2009, 22:02:18 »

The screws are either M4 or M5 screws about 30mm long and should be easy to get on ebay, hardware shop etc, also BBA Reman should be able to provide spares.

amba · « **Reply #38 on:** 19 August 2009, 17:13:49 »

Just a progress report on the ongoing story of the fault ABS,ecu.
Took unit to BBA,very quick turnaround...left it at 2.30 last Thursday afternoon,had them on phone following Monday at 12.00 to confirm faults found and repaired.Collected from them and report stated faulty earth wire so repaired..total cost £100=00 +vat.
Car went to garage this morning at 8.30..removed pump complete..refitted repaired ecu and fitted back on..bleed brakes and refilled coolant with antifreeze provided by me..also got them to do oil change and filter as saves me the agro as car was on the ramp..again parts provided by me..total of 6.5 hours labour and a bit of brake fluid.....wait for it £200 all in ..really chuffed and a very good job well done..will use them again.
Lets hope all is now cured as I have no lights on when they shouldn,t be/cruise works and so does speedo.
Off to have a bbq now.

Andy B · « **Reply #39 on:** 19 August 2009, 17:28:32 »

Quote

...total of 6.5 hours labour and .........wait for it £200 all in ..really chuffed and a very good job well done..will use them again.
Lets hope all is now cured as I have no lights on when they shouldn,t be/cruise works and so does speedo.
Off to have a bbq now.

Sound pretty good to me! No warning lights seems good too!

Ryan Hegarty · « **Reply #40 on:** 19 August 2009, 18:54:12 »

Good stuff - glad you're sorted.

I_want_an_Omega · « **Reply #41 on:** 19 August 2009, 19:02:01 »

Phew, I'm really pleased for you mate ........

amba · « **Reply #42 on:** 19 August 2009, 21:17:34 »

Thanks alot everyone for your advise...really pleased "old girl " is back to her normal self

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Author Topic: ABS ECU (Read 3708 times)

I_want_an_Omega