Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Webby the Bear on 17 November 2013, 22:07:15
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Hi guys
As above ma took car out and had to swerve for some f*ck head and hit curb at about 30. Apparently it drives abbsolutely fine (i cant really go out t o see it as i'm broke back bear at the mo).
shes driven it on the 30mph roads and then took it on the dua carriage way and as said nothing untoward.
however am going to get underneath it when i'm better. what should i be looking for? lower control arm, tyres, wheels etc. anything else?
seriously i swear everythings g oing wrong at the mo :'(
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front hubs/strut- :'(
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front hubs/strut- :'(
thanks symes ill check them out.... as said she swears its driving absolutely fine but ill check everything
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strut-if bent-will be by spring---hopefully all will be fine mate :y :y
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thanks mate. so if i see the spring touching or near the strut then that needs replacing
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Depends how she hit it. Glancing blow, or rode up it ?
If it bent a wishbone or track rod the steering would be all to cock. Trust me.
Check the tyres and rims thoroughly, for bulges and dings. Pay special attention to the inboard side of the wheels, by spinning when jacked on stands. :)
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Depends how she hit it. Glancing blow, or rode up it ?
If it bent a wishbone or track rod the steering would be all to cock. Trust me.
Check the tyres and rims thoroughly, for bulges and dings. Pay special attention to the inboard side of the wheels, by spinning when jacked on stands. :)
thanks chris :y yep sadly she mounted the curb. there wasnt a bang though and as said its driving fine.
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if square on well be fair chance the suspension is fine, of it was a glancing blow depends if the car jumped up the curb or bounced off it. More chance of suspension damage if it bounced off in which case you need to check for any sign off stress to any of the suspension and steering components. For the cost it is probably worth getting the wheel checked on a balance machine in any case as it should show up if it is out.
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I've done it myself. Steel wheels merely bend, and can be hammered straight again. Alloy wheels are brittle and bits can break off them. Bring back steel wheels I say. It's worth inspecting the tyres for bulges caused by broken cords too.
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cheers terry ;)
drove it this morning. (luckily my backs almost fine now). no vibrations, no veering off, steering wheels straight, tyres look fine and unbelievable not even a mark on the alloy! im thinking she must have drove up the curb almost forwards as opposed to side bumping over the kerb.
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:o
Lucky escape , glad its ok matey :y
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cheers mate. still yet to get it over 60mph but touch wood it wont do any of the above :y
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Geo may require Wimming though :-\
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Geo may require Wimming though :-\
TBH mate i was considering taking it over before the incident cos it hasnt been over for a couple of years(i think) and i know oof recommend regular geo set ups. :y
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Well, not out the woods yet.....
Got some severe creaking when going over speed humps today. Suonds like a spring gone. ::)
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Well, not out the woods yet.....
Got some severe creaking when going over speed humps today. Suonds like a spring gone. ::)
Broken spring is more a rattle than a creak , is tyre got any signs of damage or maybe ball joint . Best get wheel of and check for damage :)
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Well, not out the woods yet.....
Got some severe creaking when going over speed humps today. Suonds like a spring gone. ::)
Broken spring is more a rattle than a creak , is tyre got any signs of damage or maybe ball joint . Best get wheel of and check for damage :)
oh. when my rear coils went they were creaking lol so i assumed it was that.
yeah, ill whip wheel off and get a loada photos to review in case i miss something. it didnt do it throughout the drive... literally just over the speed humps. more expense ::)
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Ps, if i booked the car in to WIM i presume they could tell me what needed doing.... i.e. they're not just about alignments?
i mean ill have a good butchers myself but i like 2nd opinions with stuff like this
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Ps, if i booked the car in to WIM i presume they could tell me what needed doing.... i.e. they're not just about alignments?
i mean ill have a good butchers myself but i like 2nd opinions with stuff like this
That would probably be an expensive way to work out what is wrong, since the appointment is wasted if they find something that is going to affect alignment once resolved. It's very much worth taking it to them once everything is known to be OK, though, as a knock like that may well have shifted the geometry and the next thing you'll know about it is when you find rapid tyre wear.
I would check all suspension bushes, front and rear and check for any obvious signs of damage - i.e. bent wishbones, play in any joints, shocks leaking fluid, etc. If it's making a nasty noise, the chances are it'll be possible to spot.
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Thanks Kev, some very sound advice there! :)
Ok, had a play at lunch time and was rocking the hell out of all four corners. nothing!!!! lol
then drove it and all is absolutely fine except if i take a speed hump at about 15mph. somewhere from the front drivers' side creaks.
we reckon this is a ball joint?
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I would check both wishbone bushes. If they've failed the wishbone may not be properly located and may be contacting the subframe.
Check anti-roll bar bushes and drop links too.
If you can get someone to bounce it while you have a listen underneath it might help. Also feel for vibrations when it creaks. That might narrow it down?
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Thanks kev. heres a pic i found and i marked in blue what i need to check. can you just confirm ive got this correct as my suspension knowledge is pretty poor sadly
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/Underbodypic_zps79ae3f7e.png) (http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/webbybear1/media/Underbodypic_zps79ae3f7e.png.html)
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Thanks kev. heres a pic i found and i marked in blue what i need to check. can you just confirm ive got this correct as my suspension knowledge is pretty poor sadly
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/Underbodypic_zps79ae3f7e.png) (http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/webbybear1/media/Underbodypic_zps79ae3f7e.png.html)
Yep,check everything that has a bush or a balljoint and you won't go far wrong :y
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cheers henry....as obviously i wont have the strength to move metal lol should i use a pry bar to pry on the bushes and ball joints and stuff? :)
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cheers henry....as obviously i wont have the strength to move metal lol should i use a pry bar to pry on the bushes and ball joints and stuff? :)
Yes jack car up and rock wheel side to side and top and bottom to feel for play,do that with the wheels in the straight ahead position as if on lock you will pick up play in the steering linkage :y
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cheers henry....as obviously i wont have the strength to move metal lol should i use a pry bar to pry on the bushes and ball joints and stuff? :)
Yes and rock wheel side to side and top and bottom to feel for play,do that with the wheels in the straight ahead position as if on lock you will pick up play in the steering joints :y
thanks henry :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
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Yep, what's in your picture plus the anti roll bar bush. Follow the anti-roll bar forward until it turns 90 degrees and heads across the car. Inboard of this point is a rubber bush in which it sits. Can't recall, but you might need to remove the undertray to see it. It's possible this bush has got damaged or dislodged by the impact.
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Check anti-roll bar bushes and drop links too.
Judging by what you have said this is what I would be looking at. Bouncing the corners will not engage the roll bar on a miggy sufficiently to move it much, but going over a speed bump will move it through a larger range. Whereas bouncing will engage the springs and shocks.
Actually, now I think about it also check the tops of the front shocks :y
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Cheers lads. anyone got a pic of where they are located just so I don't go on a wild goose chase :-[
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..are the drop links what attach the anti roll bar to the wishbone..... as in this picture....
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=anti+roll+bar&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LMSMUoP9LYnNhAesmIHQAQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=673#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=F95_RJlEirV6aM%3A%3BC0qVw8s7do4iPM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.oponeo.co.uk%252Fimg%252Fuk-articles%252Fphotos%252Fanti-roll-bar-structure_OMK-0.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.oponeo.co.uk%252Ftyre-article%252Fan-anti-roll-bar-and-its-role-in-the-vehicle-s-roadholding%3B542%3B329
:)
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Yup :y
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cheers mate :) :) :)
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Anti roll bar bush party :D Got to do mine + drop links :P
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UPDATE
Hi again guys. Thanks for the valuable info. Been out and under the car and this is what I found...
First thing I noticed was the rubber tube at the top of the damper has come up and is exposing the shiny metal underneath and what looks like a white plastic ring. Not the cause of the creaking of course but i'm presuming this rubber boot should cover this.
Ok, underneath...
There's a bit of play in the drivers side wishbone bush. not much but a pry bar was enough to move it a little. however the pass side wishbone bush is easily moved with the pry bar and has a bit more play. no noise. just movement left to right. this was an advisory on the mot.
droplinks move a little with the pry bar but not much at all.
the furthest ball joint (presumably the steering one) doesn't move although I could spin it on the drivers side by hand like 10 degrees or so. although im presuming this is not a problem as its the movement of the steering and im having no steering problems.
wishbone ball joints... no movement.
anti roll bar...again moves with a little persuasion with pry bar but not much. the bushes are just before the anti roll bar disappears under the splash shield and they have not ben dislodged or anything.
could not find any noise at all with pry bar.
do we reckon that it could just be the wishbone bushes... is creaking something that you get from failed/ing ones???
:)
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ps LOVE my 6 ton jack stands 8) 8) 8) ;D
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ooooh one thing I forgot to mention.....
the anti roll bar is bloody close to the wishbone. like maybe a fingers width. as i'm going over speed humps could this be making contact and causing the creaking> :)
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ooooh one thing I forgot to mention.....
the anti roll bar is bloody close to the wishbone. like maybe a fingers width. as i'm going over speed humps could this be making contact and causing the creaking> :)
Only if the wheels are suddenly leaving the ground ::) if that's happening then you have much bigger issues to deal with than the odd creak ;D
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ooooh one thing I forgot to mention.....
the anti roll bar is bloody close to the wishbone. like maybe a fingers width. as i'm going over speed humps could this be making contact and causing the creaking> :)
Only if the wheels are suddenly leaving the ground ::) if that's happening then you have much bigger issues to deal with than the odd creak ;D
oh right, so cos i'd got it jacked up the anti roll bar and wishbones were close cos of the weight?
So on the things ive mentioned are we thinking its just the wishbone bushes? and if that's the case can I simply replace the whole wishbone complete with bush?? and if so (sorry lol ::)) can anyone recommend a brand/post a link to where I can get them? :)
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ps this is how the drivers strut looked whilst it was on axel stands...
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/sus500_zpsbb496803.jpg) (http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/webbybear1/media/sus500_zpsbb496803.jpg.html)
Has the boot simply rode up and needs pulling down or will it go back to normal when off the axel stands? :)
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ps this is how the drivers strut looked whilst it was on axel stands...
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/sus500_zpsbb496803.jpg) (http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/webbybear1/media/sus500_zpsbb496803.jpg.html)
Has the boot simply rode up and needs pulling down or will it go back to normal when off the axel stands? :)
Yes, that's normal. Check it when compressed and all will be well.
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ooooh one thing I forgot to mention.....
the anti roll bar is bloody close to the wishbone. like maybe a fingers width. as i'm going over speed humps could this be making contact and causing the creaking> :)
Normal.
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ooooh one thing I forgot to mention.....
the anti roll bar is bloody close to the wishbone. like maybe a fingers width. as i'm going over speed humps could this be making contact and causing the creaking> :)
Only if the wheels are suddenly leaving the ground ::) if that's happening then you have much bigger issues to deal with than the odd creak ;D
oh right, so cos i'd got it jacked up the anti roll bar and wishbones were close cos of the weight?
So on the things ive mentioned are we thinking its just the wishbone bushes? and if that's the case can I simply replace the whole wishbone complete with bush?? and if so (sorry lol ::)) can anyone recommend a brand/post a link to where I can get them? :)
If the rearward bush is fine, fit poly to the fronts. You can do this without removing the wbone.
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thanks for all the info chris :y
right, ive heard a lot about and seen a lot of threads about polybushing. what is it? and is there a guide to fitting them with WB in situ? :) :) :)
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UPDATE
Hi again guys. Thanks for the valuable info. Been out and under the car and this is what I found...
First thing I noticed was the rubber tube at the top of the damper has come up and is exposing the shiny metal underneath and what looks like a white plastic ring. Not the cause of the creaking of course but i'm presuming this rubber boot should cover this.
normal, rubber gaiter will cover the shock at normal ride height
Ok, underneath...
There's a bit of play in the drivers side wishbone bush. not much but a pry bar was enough to move it a little. however the pass side wishbone bush is easily moved with the pry bar and has a bit more play. no noise. just movement left to right. this was an advisory on the mot.
these can creak, well, usually more of a squeak but it depends how they fail, hitting a kerb could have ripped the bush even further than what was present at the mot, and it could now be squeaking
droplinks move a little with the pry bar but not much at all.
they will bend a little, but your looking for play, this causes a knock. To test, with both sides jacked, grab the roll bar nearest the drop link, and pull up and down by hand, any play can be fealt in your hands. This doesn't work if only one side is jacked as the roll bar is twisted, so the torsion on the toll bar will be massively increased and therefor impossible to move by hand
the furthest ball joint (presumably the steering one) doesn't move although I could spin it on the drivers side by hand like 10 degrees or so. although im presuming this is not a problem as its the movement of the steering and im having no steering problems.
yes that's correct :y they don't match as a pair though as the twist should feel the same, but if there no play by pulling the road thought the steering axis at 9/3 o'clock then that's all good
wishbone ball joints... no movement.
these are tricky, when jacked up the ball joint is in a different position to its normal ride height position where the play and wear occurs , so any play is taken out as the ball joint twists/tilts as it's jacked up. So to test these leave the car on the floor just as it would be driven onto the drive, not when it's been dropped off the jack as the wheels will be pinched like so \ / , and just reach under and pull the wishbone up and down while observing the ball joint. If there is play the wishbone will move vertically by a fraction. Its vary easy to move if the car is left parked as normal, as there will be zero tension forcing the bone into a loaded situation
anti roll bar...again moves with a little persuasion with pry bar but not much. the bushes are just before the anti roll bar disappears under the splash shield and they have not ben dislodged or anything.
rarely see a problem with these, but they are very cheap and easy to replace, poly
could not find any noise at all with pry bar.
do we reckon that it could just be the wishbone bushes... is creaking something that you get from failed/ing ones???
possibly.... Spray with silicon lube, NOT oil, and see if the creak subsides with use. The front gm bushes are filled with fluid as a damper. When the bush fails the fluid leaks out and lubricates the rubber as it twists. But over time the fluid wears off, the rubber dries out, and as the outer rotates around the inner they do sometimes creak as the split chafes against each side
:)
Did you examine the springs? Apologies if you said so, I have just brushed over the thread quickly. Springs creak too if they break, but it depends where and how the break. If near the end and the remaining spring leaves a sharp point, then this can dig into the rubber and work through to metal. There is huge compression on the spring, so it in order to rattle the break needs to be way up on the spring, or the broken end be rattling around in the spring cup.
Hope helps.
:)
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Chris, thats really valuable info and thanks for taking the time to dissect my exact problem! :)
I think what i need to do based on what you've told me is check the anti-roll bar and drop links with both sides jacked up simultaneously. I'll also check the wishbone ball joint whilst it's on the ground. Then i'll spray them with silcone (or grease them up with silicone paste) and do further tests :y
So, about this poly bushing the front wishbone bush..... is there a guide for this? I've looked but can't find anything. i realise you have to torque them on the ground but any info on this procedure (and what the heck poly bushes are ;D) would be wonder-bra!!! :y :y :y :y
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So is this what I need...
http://www.camskill.co.uk/m51b0s4270p56000/Powerflex_Performance_Polyurethane_Suspension_Bushes_-_Front_Wishbone_Front_Bush_-_Vauxhall_-_Omega_A_B_(1986_to_2003)
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Hi guys,
Sorry not bumping... but I want to get these new bushes in. To fit these ''polys'' am I to follow this guide...
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90676.0
...with the wishbone in situ (even though it says to do this with it removed)?
To get access to the bush i'm presuming I have to drop it down a bit by removing the rear securing bolt and obviously the front one of the bushes i'm replacing? :)
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Sorry Webby I've been busy talking 'dangle berries' with that Esta eejit. ;D
First off, check the car, find the fault. Grease type consistency won't get into the bush you need a wet spray so it runs in. Remember your trying to id the squeak/creak, even though we know at least one bush is fubar.
If its the bush then happy days, if not we need to think again. ;)
If you encounter the noise try and take a video clip if possible, with sound obviously. :)
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;D ;D ;D no worries chris.
bearing in mind one's fubar'd and it was an advisory on the MOT I really fancied replacing them anyway TBH...... even if the creak turns out to be something else. if you could let me know the procedure i'd be eternally grateful. :)
But in the mean time ill definitely spray the area down with silicone and look at those correct test procedures too.
thanks for all the advice mate :y :y :y
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Try this one.
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=118692.0
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Cheers mate :y
heres a pic of the fubard bush... not that it makes any diffrerence as you really need to see the play I suppose but thanks for all ya help chris :y :y :y
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/wishbone1_zps7007357c.jpg) (http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/webbybear1/media/wishbone1_zps7007357c.jpg.html)
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Christ, those bolts haven't been off for a while have they! :o suggests the bushes are old and knackered by now anyway. But you want the source of the noise first. Don't want to do the bushes, set it up, then find the springs busted or sumat daft.
I'd get some penetrating lube on their while your diagnosing. Get the ball joint bolt as well, be careful not to spray the brakes of course. :)
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...with the wishbone in situ (even though it says to do this with it removed)?
To get access to the bush i'm presuming I have to drop it down a bit by removing the rear securing bolt and obviously the front one of the bushes i'm replacing? :)
To fit Polys you only need to unbolt the front bush, kick the wheel backwards so that the bush arm comes away from its fixing and then wedge a bit of wood in there to keep it clear while you are cutting the old bush out. :y
Obviously you need to find the noise first. I jack up the hub and then 'dump' the jack to try to simulate suspension movement noises. Bit unorthodox but you might get lucky. :y
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Thanks boys that all makes perfect sense. i'm hoping the bolt removal wont give me too much of a headache. I have lots of penetrating oil and I have a buzz gun...all assuming I can get a socket on ::)
jacking up the hub then dropping it sounds like an excellent way of doing it... sadly my jacks old and tired and doesn't drop so much as lowers slowly ;D
looking at those polybushes am I right in thinking that theyre split in to two parts.... you push one side in and put the silver piece through...then push on the other side? :)
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looking at those polybushes am I right in thinking that theyre split in to two parts.... you push one side in and put the silver piece through...then push on the other side? :)
Put one half in from one side, then put the other half in from the other side and then push the steel spacer through them both. :y
Remember to use copper grease on the Poly's, otherwise they will creak. :y
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looking at those polybushes am I right in thinking that theyre split in to two parts.... you push one side in and put the silver piece through...then push on the other side? :)
Put one half in from one side, then put the other half in from the other side and then push the steel spacer through them both. :y
Remember to use copper grease on the Poly's, otherwise they will creak. :y
Have you OK'd that with GixerChris? ??? ??? ??? ::)
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Correct. Its a 10 second job to pop polys in. Another two mins to do the bolts up.
Hard bit is removal of the old bush.
I use a whole cutter from front and back, then a jig saw to cut through the two metal outer rings of the bush itself, being careful to stop short of the wb obviously, then tear the metal for the last bit of the cut with a hammer and cold chisel. It doesn't need to tear all the way, just enough to knock it out with a hammer.
I find jacking the car onto ramps is entail though. ... for room to work, swing a torque wrench, and allow the wishbone to pull down at the right angle.
Bushes are powerflex.
Am I just repeating what's in the link now or what? :D ;D
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looking at those polybushes am I right in thinking that theyre split in to two parts.... you push one side in and put the silver piece through...then push on the other side? :)
Put one half in from one side, then put the other half in from the other side and then push the steel spacer through them both. :y
Remember to use copper grease on the Poly's, otherwise they will creak. :y
Have you OK'd that with GixerChris? ??? ??? ??? ::)
Copper slip is perfect for this particular application. So yes, he has permission. ::) ;D
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.....
Copper slip is perfect for this particular application. So yes, he has permission. ::) ;D
:y :y :y :y
Kluber (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kluber-ISOFLEX-NBU-15-400g-High-Speed-Grease-/181257940949?pt=UK_BOI_Building_Materials_Supplies_Carpentry_Woodwork_ET&hash=item2a33d0afd5) would probably be better ..... it doesn't dry out like copper slip ::) ::) ;)
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;D ;D ;D can I use silicone paste? meant to be the best lubricant for rubber... although I have know idea what these poly things are made of ;D
I may see if my mate has an air hammer as I know he has a good compressor. :y
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I should hope its made with gold at that price ;D
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;D ;D ;D can I use silicone paste? meant to be the best lubricant for rubber... although I have know idea what these poly things are made of ;D
I may see if my mate has an air hammer as I know he has a good compressor. :y
Poly ..... polyurethane
Silicon grease is good ...... it's what plumbers (should) use on push fit waste pipes etc :y
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I should hope its made with gold at that price ;D
We use it by the (£2000) bucket load at work ......... I'm not saying that any of it might have been redistributed though ::)
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Air hammer won't do it, I have one. Nfg.
Air saw might though.
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I should hope its made with gold at that price ;D
We use it by the (£2000) bucket load at work ......... I'm not saying that any of it might have been redistributed though ::)
I wasn't going to suggest that thought publicly, but now you have.... ;)
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I should hope its made with gold at that price ;D
We use it by the (£2000) bucket load at work ......... I'm not saying that any of it might have been redistributed though ::)
I wasn't going to suggest that thought publicly, but now you have.... ;)
I've no idea if any has or not ........ ::) ::) ::)
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;D ;D ;D can I use silicone paste? meant to be the best lubricant for rubber... although I have know idea what these poly things are made of ;D
I may see if my mate has an air hammer as I know he has a good compressor. :y
Poly ..... polyurethane
Silicon grease is good ...... it's what plumbers (should) use on push fit waste pipes etc :y
plus caliper slide pins :y
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ok thanks chris... I saw you mentioned a ''press''..... is this something that could be hired from a tool shop... and if it is will it do the job easy? :)
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ok thanks chris... I saw you mentioned a ''press''..... is this something that could be hired from a tool shop... and if it is will it do the job easy? :)
Press only works bones off the car. Which reminds me ( ;D ) first thing you need to check is the rearward wb bush, and then the ball joint. If these are knackered you need to remove the wishbones to repair these, so fitting poly can be done then, making fitting on the car pointless.
IMO, if the rear bush is fubar, you'll need access to a press and drifts, or fit new bones and start a fresh. Although some here have fitted them with a vice. Drilling can also remove them.
Also, the bolts do not need to be tightened wheels loaded if poly are used.
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ok thanks chris... I saw you mentioned a ''press''..... is this something that could be hired from a tool shop... and if it is will it do the job easy? :)
Press only works bones off the car. Which reminds me ( ;D ) first thing you need to check is the rearward wb bush, and then the ball joint. If these are knackered you need to remove the wishbones to repair these, so fitting poly can be done then, making fitting on the car pointless.
Also, the bolts do not need to be tightened wheels loaded if poly are used.
no worries mate... ill look at getting it off the car :y cheers mate :y :y :y :y :y