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[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Nostalgia and rose-tinted specs makes fools of us all.....me included.

Thatcher was certainly not the reincarnation of Jesus Christ.....she was as flawed as the rest of us.

As for people celebrating her demise, well, we live in a democracy......and she pissed  a lot of people off.

So if you don't get on with your neighbour and they pass away, is it ok for you to dance in the streets so to speak ?

[/highlight]

Me, personally, no. But as I say, we live in a democracy.

[05omegav6]

Nostalgia and rose-tinted specs makes fools of us all.....me included.

Thatcher was certainly not the reincarnation of Jesus Christ.....she was as flawed as the rest of us.

As for people celebrating her demise, well, we live in a democracy......and she pissed  a lot of people off.

So if you don't get on with your neighbour and they pass away, is it ok for you to dance in the streets so to speak ?

No, obviously...

But there does seem to be a total lack of respect emerging through life generally. Ask those people what they would think if we were dancing around their graves, they would either reply instantly with 'Don't give a break' or hesitate and say that they might object...

Put people on the spot about their poor behaviour and loosely speaking, they are either hypocrites or liars

[Rog]

I wonder what will happens when Arthur Scargill goes. Will I be criticised for having a celebratory street party ?

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I wonder what will happens when Arthur Scargill goes. Will I be criticised for having a celebratory street party ?

Not from me.

He was as "out of touch" as Thatcher.

[dbdb]

So if you don't get on with your neighbour and they pass away, is it ok for you to dance in the streets so to speak ?

yes those VE day celebrations were well out of order

[cem_devecioglu]

we have a tradition.. we never speak bad after someone who is dead..
 
and I dont wont to disturb the people who loves her.. but whoever declares war to miners will never  have my respect..

[05omegav6]

Cem, her fight was not with the miners themselves, rather the Stalinist union leaders who misrepresented and exploited them

Had the miners, (and other heavily unionised industries), not followed Scargill et al so blindly, we might still have a country to be proud of.

The unions ultimately put those men out of work. It is criminal that they were never made to account for it, and I suspect alot of those men took the shame of that fact to their graves

[cem_devecioglu]

I think this basically explains the picture (although there are a lot more than that)
 
   "The Miner's Strike of 1984 / '85 was caused by the massive pit closure programme introduced by Margaret Thatcher and her Tory government. They wanted to replace Britain's use of coal-fired power stations and industries with power derived from gas or nuclear sources. Also, Thatcher knew that the mining communities and the NUM were a very large left wing power-block who opposed her, and felt that if she could decimate them as an effective force, she would succesfully remove a potential threat to her continued leadership of the country. Thatcher brought in a Canadian buisnessman, Ian MacGregor, as her so-called 'economic advisor'. He was not a British citizen, had no understanding whatsoever of British economic history, and was certainly not impartial. Nonetheless, he oversaw a shoddy and biased 'survey' of the future economic viability of British mining, which predictably painted a bleak picture of it's ability to survive- one which was very far from the actual truth. This gave Thatcher the excuse that she needed to announce the programme of pit closures early in 1984. The sheer injustice of the situation prompted a furious response from the mining communities, and resulted in the NUM leader, Arthur Scargill, calling a nationwide miner's strike before the union membership had been balloted for strike action. This enabled the strike's critics to label it as technically illegal, although if a ballot HAD been run, the overwhelming vote would have been to strike anyway. There was particular hatred for Ian MacGregor, who had no buisness in being invited to a foreign country and serving as advisor to the Prime Minister when he wasn't even an elected British politician, and not accountable to the electorate."

[cem_devecioglu]

and one more point, there may be excuses such that country was loosing too much money for mines..
 
ok if she was a hero , why she didnt nationalise Bank of England.. the losses in mines were just a breakfast cost compared to govt borrowing its own money

[Allenm]

I think this basically explains the picture (although there are a lot more than that)
 
   "The Miner's Strike of 1984 / '85 was caused by the massive pit closure programme introduced by Margaret Thatcher and her Tory government. They wanted to replace Britain's use of coal-fired power stations and industries with power derived from gas or nuclear sources. Also, Thatcher knew that the mining communities and the NUM were a very large left wing power-block who opposed her, and felt that if she could decimate them as an effective force, she would succesfully remove a potential threat to her continued leadership of the country. Thatcher brought in a Canadian buisnessman, Ian MacGregor, as her so-called 'economic advisor'. He was not a British citizen, had no understanding whatsoever of British economic history, and was certainly not impartial. Nonetheless, he oversaw a shoddy and biased 'survey' of the future economic viability of British mining, which predictably painted a bleak picture of it's ability to survive- one which was very far from the actual truth. This gave Thatcher the excuse that she needed to announce the programme of pit closures early in 1984. The sheer injustice of the situation prompted a furious response from the mining communities, and resulted in the NUM leader, Arthur Scargill, calling a nationwide miner's strike before the union membership had been balloted for strike action. This enabled the strike's critics to label it as technically illegal, although if a ballot HAD been run, the overwhelming vote would have been to strike anyway. There was particular hatred for Ian MacGregor, who had no buisness in being invited to a foreign country and serving as advisor to the Prime Minister when he wasn't even an elected British politician, and not accountable to the electorate."

Wow, that has to be the most biased and inaccurate account of the reality that I have ever seen.  If you need to use biased references instead of your own experience, perhaps this is a debate to avoid!

[05omegav6]

The unions had been using its membership to hold the Great Britian PLC to ransom since the early seventies, always demanding more.

Had they been a bit more reasonable with their demands, them firms would undoubtedly have been more profitable, with fewer cuts, continuing a strong industry based economy which had built an empire.

The unions forced successive governments to make costly decisions which benefited no-one but the union elite. Regardless of how she did it, Maggie stopped that.

Just a shame that the media whores who followed didn't step up and continue the legacy.

[cem_devecioglu]

what suprises me is that , the politicians and media tells a story and then some group of workers becomes enemy for other workers..     whats wrong with unions ? of course they will demand best for their wrokers/members.. problem is the other workers who dont have a proper union which will defend their rights.. thats what the boss want.. divide and conquer you

[cem_devecioglu]

I think this basically explains the picture (although there are a lot more than that)
 
   "The Miner's Strike of 1984 / '85 was caused by the massive pit closure programme introduced by Margaret Thatcher and her Tory government. They wanted to replace Britain's use of coal-fired power stations and industries with power derived from gas or nuclear sources. Also, Thatcher knew that the mining communities and the NUM were a very large left wing power-block who opposed her, and felt that if she could decimate them as an effective force, she would succesfully remove a potential threat to her continued leadership of the country. Thatcher brought in a Canadian buisnessman, Ian MacGregor, as her so-called 'economic advisor'. He was not a British citizen, had no understanding whatsoever of British economic history, and was certainly not impartial. Nonetheless, he oversaw a shoddy and biased 'survey' of the future economic viability of British mining, which predictably painted a bleak picture of it's ability to survive- one which was very far from the actual truth. This gave Thatcher the excuse that she needed to announce the programme of pit closures early in 1984. The sheer injustice of the situation prompted a furious response from the mining communities, and resulted in the NUM leader, Arthur Scargill, calling a nationwide miner's strike before the union membership had been balloted for strike action. This enabled the strike's critics to label it as technically illegal, although if a ballot HAD been run, the overwhelming vote would have been to strike anyway. There was particular hatred for Ian MacGregor, who had no buisness in being invited to a foreign country and serving as advisor to the Prime Minister when he wasn't even an elected British politician, and not accountable to the electorate."

Wow, that has to be the most biased and inaccurate account of the reality that I have ever seen.  If you need to use biased references instead of your own experience, perhaps this is a debate to avoid!

"own experience"     I dont live in UK   but same theatral game is on play here for long years, if you count that
 

[omegod]

She did also order police on horseback to beat the living shite out of ordinary working men( miners) with truncheons who were striking to try and ensure their jobs

[05omegav6]

Keep listening to your union rep Cem

The unions only interest in its members is the subscriptions. The higher your wages get, the more they can take from you. Turn off google and wikiblocks and think for yourself

The last productive stike was probably (according to the film 'Dagenham', anyway), when the female workers at  Fords Dagenham plant walked out demanding equal pay. Eventually they got their way. But most strikes were over trivial nonsense, and in the case of nationalised industries, cost the country billions of pounds in lost production, helping to make the likes of British Leyland a laughing stock. By the time she came to power Maggie had little choice but to crush the unions and privatise everything, just to protect the British Economy. That those companies failed simply demonstrates how damaging the unions had been 

As I said earlier, it is purely down to the left-wing fatcat approach to government that has created our current predicament, and not as you suggest, the policies of Margaret Thatcher and her government.