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[Nickbat]

No (legal) discussion is discouraged here.

However, a small minority jump on certain threads to push their own political agendas, and god forbid if you disagree with them. General chat became a place where only a few dared venture, and only if they supported certain popularist views (as if you didn't, you'd be made to feel unwelcome). Fortunately, we have begun to pull away from that, and sanity has started to return.

We are NOT a media outlet for UKIP, or any other party, despite what some seem to believe.

So, we welcome serious debate, try to keep the political views out, and certainly trying to ram your own political views down other people's necks will not be tolerated.

Hope that makes sense, and clarifies.

How odd. 

Can't see any political views mentioned in this thread.

Must go to Specsavers. 

[SIR Philbutt]

No (legal) discussion is discouraged here..........

How odd. 

Can't see any political views mentioned in this thread.

Must go to Specsavers. 

Think this might have been in response to the OP original statement #1 - and my post  #35 - it's all about me you know 

[chrisgixer]

If some people had nothing to moan about, they'd bloody moan... (Sigh)

There's actually no point conversing with the polotics clique, they read what they want to read, reguardless of what's actually said anyway.



I would add though, I actually rarely disagree with them. Things is I rarely disagree with them an awfull lot. Several times a day in fact. After I've seen it on the news, the papers, web sites blah blah bloody blah.

Your right guys. now for the love of god, move on.

[Rods2]

If some people had nothing to moan about, they'd bloody moan... (Sigh)

There's actually no point conversing with the polotics clique, they read what they want to read, reguardless of what's actually said anyway.



I would add though, I actually rarely disagree with them. Things is I rarely disagree with them an awfull lot. Several times a day in fact. After I've seen it on the news, the papers, web sites blah blah bloody blah.

Your right guys. now for the love of god, move on.

If this topic does not interest you, stop reading and do something different!

The nights are now drawing in, so be prepared, go and start a winter tyre thread! 

[chrisgixer]

If some people had nothing to moan about, they'd bloody moan... (Sigh)

There's actually no point conversing with the polotics clique, they read what they want to read, reguardless of what's actually said anyway.



I would add though, I actually rarely disagree with them. Things is I rarely disagree with them an awfull lot. Several times a day in fact. After I've seen it on the news, the papers, web sites blah blah bloody blah.

Your right guys. now for the love of god, move on.

If this topic does not interest you, stop reading and do something different!

The nights are now drawing in, so be prepared, go and start a winter tyre thread! 

And let the rot set in again, I think not.

As has been said, if we're using that defence, that there's nothing in the guidelines that says I have to read or not, reply or not.

However, there is a general opinion on balance within this particular...society/community/membership, whatever, that's not happy at the utterly miserable, clique, unfriendly and repetitive nature of gen chat early this year, and at various points before. Those views are drawn from politics and more so the miserable and closed minded approach of those members generally speaking. (Rather than the actual particular subject itself per say IMO.)

I have to admit, and hand those members ammunition on a plate probably, that my approach to it has changed as I've understood the problem better. What can I say, we are learning etc...?

I never used to agree on the subject of politics being devicive on here..., as members here are saying, it should be aloud... Or at least be able to discuss it collectively. Fact is though, unless you agree, your not welcome and that grudge is heald for ever.

Its poisonous. Devicive, and undermines the forum. Or at least that's what I've come to learn so far. Interesting how others react when treated the same though. 


( above is not related to this thread per say, as, as it turns out, and as Nicbat says, its not particularly political, but the subject came up as a result of it)

[Nickbat]

I think we need to examine matters a little more closely.

Miserable or not, one must face facts. Society is changing and that affects us all. Whether it is vehicle-related (e.g. increased taxation on cars, the fitting of tracker devices for all new vehicles - mooted by the EU, etc.), or related to our own personal lives ("bedroom tax", energy costs/shortages, unemployment, etc.), these issues are growing in importance.

Of course, we all like a good laugh and joke with our online friends, but we also like to have the opportunity to discuss and voice our opinions. Of course, that can be divisive, but the world is becoming more divisive. Witness the violence in Egypt, Pakistan and Syria. Witness the general strikes in Greece and the protests in Italy. I love my Omega and am pleased to receive advice and help with its maintenance but, more importantly, I have a family and two young children and they are infinitely more important than my car.

Divisiveness does not necessarily cause long-term problems, though. For example, Cem is a socialist - I am not; Cem is a conspiracy theorist - I am not (though tempted to become one!!). We have great arguments about 9/11 and capitalism, yet I respect his views and I know that being a part of the OOF community he would come to my aid if the chips were down as I would come to his.

I want the world to be a better place for my children, but I believe that our current political classes are heading us in the opposite direction - in many cases for their own personal gain. If I can make just one "friend" on the forum see that and help to change course, then that I feel I have contributed to the solution and not been part of the problem. 

It's about being adults and respecting others' views whilst still "campaigning" for what one believes is best for the future.   

P.S. Read my strapline about being governed by inferiors!!! 

[Nickbat]

Whoops, made a mistake whilst editing. Sorry, nothing to add. 

[chrisgixer]

If the same approach was taken with religion the forum would be long gone, I'm almost certain.

Campaigning, preaching... Beating over the head, whatever the subject, in a gentle way still hurts, its just takes longer to notice.

You've (as a faction) never noticed when I've agreed with your views, and taken offence when I've disagreed (sometimes any response is better than none at all )

I'm accused of obsessing on bushes and handling, possibly in the same way you obsess on "campaigning", the difference being relevance to the audience IMO.

The opposite equivalent of that would be if you where a member on political forum, and I continually posted in gen chat there, without variation on car handling. Yes it may be of interest to some members but the vast majority interested in the subject for which that forum exists, polotics, would soon get stuffed off with it. ESP if i and my group excluded the views of all others and took over the section.
 The sole contribution I'd be making would be to eventually irritate a good portion of that membership with no interest or input anywhere else.

Its not as if you have the decency to break your car now and again so we can help you out

[Nickbat]

If the same approach was taken with religion the forum would be long gone, I'm almost certain.

Campaigning, preaching... Beating over the head, whatever the subject, in a gentle way still hurts, its just takes longer to notice.

You've (as a faction) never noticed when I've agreed with your views, and taken offence when I've disagreed (sometimes any response is better than none at all )

I'm accused of obsessing on bushes and handling, possibly in the same way you obsess on "campaigning", the difference being relevance to the audience IMO.

The opposite equivalent of that would be if you where a member on political forum, and I continually posted in gen chat there, without variation on car handling. Yes it may be of interest to some members but the vast majority interested in the subject for which that forum exists, polotics, would soon get stuffed off with it. ESP if i and my group excluded the views of all others and took over the section.
 The sole contribution I'd be making would be to eventually irritate a good portion of that membership with no interest or input anywhere else.

Its not as if you have the decency to break your car now and again so we can help you out

A subjective view, not an objective one. In other words, it's a guess! 

I would rather say that the majority of folks on here have a view on the way society is heading and, party politics aside, it is nevertheless a political issue. 

[chrisgixer]

Whoops, made a mistake whilst editing. Sorry, nothing to add. 

Nik, why would I read it again, and again, and again. Your right by the way.


Now, having agreed with you, what about my views? And the rest of the membership not interested in polotics every day after its been in the media ALL day long already.

We're all aware of what your saying, and its repeated to us, again generally speaking as if we're idiots that lived under the stairs all our lives.

It would be unfair to say there's isn't genuine interest occasionally, some of your stuff (as a faction) is very interesting and informative, but everything in moderation as they say.

[Nickbat]

Whoops, made a mistake whilst editing. Sorry, nothing to add. 

Nik, why would I read it again, and again, and again. Your right by the way.


Now, having agreed with you, what about my views? And the rest of the membership not interested in polotics every day after its been in the media ALL day long already.

We're all aware of what your saying, and its repeated to us, again generally speaking as if we're idiots that lived under the stairs all our lives.

It would be unfair to say there's isn't genuine interest occasionally, some of your stuff (as a faction) is very interesting and informative, but everything in moderation as they say.

Express them. It's what a forum is all about.

[chrisgixer]

If the same approach was taken with religion the forum would be long gone, I'm almost certain.

Campaigning, preaching... Beating over the head, whatever the subject, in a gentle way still hurts, its just takes longer to notice.

You've (as a faction) never noticed when I've agreed with your views, and taken offence when I've disagreed (sometimes any response is better than none at all )

I'm accused of obsessing on bushes and handling, possibly in the same way you obsess on "campaigning", the difference being relevance to the audience IMO.

The opposite equivalent of that would be if you where a member on political forum, and I continually posted in gen chat there, without variation on car handling. Yes it may be of interest to some members but the vast majority interested in the subject for which that forum exists, polotics, would soon get stuffed off with it. ESP if i and my group excluded the views of all others and took over the section.
 The sole contribution I'd be making would be to eventually irritate a good portion of that membership with no interest or input anywhere else.

Its not as if you have the decency to break your car now and again so we can help you out

A subjective view, not an objective one. In other words, it's a guess! 

I would rather say that the majority of folks on here have a view on the way society is heading and, party politics aside, it is nevertheless a political issue. 

Cheap, very very cheap. Any eejit can put bits out and be pedantic. Dance around it all you like, your ignoring the jist, which speaks volumes.

[chrisgixer]

Whoops, made a mistake whilst editing. Sorry, nothing to add. 

Nik, why would I read it again, and again, and again. Your right by the way.


Now, having agreed with you, what about my views? And the rest of the membership not interested in polotics every day after its been in the media ALL day long already.

We're all aware of what your saying, and its repeated to us, again generally speaking as if we're idiots that lived under the stairs all our lives.

It would be unfair to say there's isn't genuine interest occasionally, some of your stuff (as a faction) is very interesting and informative, but everything in moderation as they say.

Express them. It's what a forum is all about.

exactly, I do, others do, and what do we get in return.

Read TB's post for the result.

[albitz]

I still think the simplest,easiest solution is to give politics its own sticky,the same as jokes have,and then those who want to get involved can do so,and those who don't can very easily ignore it.
Seemples really. After all,iirc the vote on the subject was very evenly split,with a small majority in favour of allowing it to stay ? 
To put another perspective on the observations already posted. Once the "political" (in the broader sense) threads disappeared from genchat,it initially became what I can only describe as resembling the facebook page of a gay teenager.Then we had the air freshener thing again,which to me was another pretty contrived attempt at reintroducing the fun element.
It failed miserably imo.We cant turn back the clock. The days of side splitting hilarity are gone and they aint coming back unfortunately.
It was those particular people at that particular time.It was spontaneous which is why it was so hilarious,but you cant recreate something like that unfortunately.
Now,imo its settled down into mediocrity.The occasional thread of some interest,but almost no debate or discussion which will stimulate the mind or provoke thought.
My view of course,which undoubtedly be the polar opposite of some others.

[Nickbat]

Whoops, made a mistake whilst editing. Sorry, nothing to add. 

Nik, why would I read it again, and again, and again. Your right by the way.


Now, having agreed with you, what about my views? And the rest of the membership not interested in polotics every day after its been in the media ALL day long already.

We're all aware of what your saying, and its repeated to us, again generally speaking as if we're idiots that lived under the stairs all our lives.

It would be unfair to say there's isn't genuine interest occasionally, some of your stuff (as a faction) is very interesting and informative, but everything in moderation as they say.

Express them. It's what a forum is all about.

exactly, I do, others do, and what do we get in return.

Read TB's post for the result.

Huh? As I read it, your views on politics are there shouldn't be any views on politics.

That's helpful.