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[Sir Tigger KC]

So you want to have wages protected?
Because it doesnt make any difference where you are from if you are talking about undercutting a price.
Its neither here nor there.

So you think it's OK that Brit workers on good contracts and wages have been pushed out of their jobs by the big companies, so that they can be replaced by those willing to work on minimum wage with a zero hours contract? 

You might think it's neither here or there, but try telling that to the people I knew that it happened to.  People with mortgages, kids to feed etc etc 

Ordinary working people who were completely stitched up by the politicians, trade unions and big business! 

[johnny_boy]

No. I am saying that british tradesman didnt bother doing small jobs in my area. Polish guys do.
Also that in my area the brits will say that working in london is too much bother from travelling. You see lots of east europeans travelling to those jobs in central london in their place. Same job, same money.

[Sir Tigger KC]

No. I am saying that british tradesman didnt bother doing small jobs in my area. Polish guys do.
Also that in my area the brits will say that working in london is too much bother from travelling. You see lots of east europeans travelling to those jobs in central london in their place. Same job, same money.

A lot of them don't have the same overheads many ordinary Brits have though....

[gbh]

It sounds like a race to the bottom!! Very good for bosses but not so good for quality of life as every job is vulnerable!!!

[STEMO]

It sounds like a race to the bottom!! Very good for bosses but not so good for quality of life as every job is vulnerable!!!

Yep.

[STEMO]

When the unions were stronger, this wouldn't have happened, but the unions, of course, brought their own problems. We are, in general, f**ked, I think. Our generation had the best of times, the era from the sixties till the noughties, and I doubt we'll ever have it that good again.

[johnny_boy]

Well yes the demonisation of trade unions is a bit counter productive if you are a blue collar (manual) worker.
Lot of that garbage came from murdoch papers who had a stake in removing workers rights.
After all he was the poster boy of thatcher.
I always thought it was odd union bashing coming from working class people. For me, it was 'its the miners today, it will be you tomorrow'.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

The unions got drunk with power and thought they had the right to tell their members what to do, tell the elected Govt. what to do, and generally run the country.
I speak as a former TGWU shop steward / safety rep and former Socialist.
The point about the guys undercutting British workers is a very relevant one. They rent out garden sheds & garages in London to live to keep their overheads down. They live like that for a while to get themselves established, but once that happens, they will want the same wages, rights, legal protection etc. that the guys had who they undercut in the first place.
But as someone said, its really about numbers. Whatever your viewpoint, we are now at saturation point, especially in the southeast.
Roads, schools, hospitals, doctors surgeries etc. etc  are all at bursting point, which is ruiniong the quality of life of the people already living here.
The greater EU question however, isn't really anything to do with any of this. A country which cannot make its own laws and pays taxes to foreign powers is no longer a country. That's what I want to change.

[johnny_boy]

Really what this referendum is about is globalisation isnt it?
Should british workers have to compete with foreigners?

Can we opt out of this and is opting out of this the future of the uk?

[05omegav6]

No it's about sovereignty. Globalisation is not a new concept...

[Sir Tigger KC]

Really what this referendum is about is globalisation isnt it?
Should british workers have to compete with foreigners?

Can we opt out of this and is opting out of this the future of the uk?

It's about whether we want to continue to be shackled to a small part of the world which is declining in global importance or free ourselves so we can engage freely with the wider global community of nations and on terms which suit us. 

[johnny_boy]

I suppose the million dollar question is why should other countries accept our terms? On what basis?

[gbh]

How many EU countries with influence really sell us that much,i'm thinking the western ones i.e Germany,France,Holland and Spain.It will effect their economies and workers if they don't get a deal or its 10pc tariff time and they have to compete with Korea,Japan etc as they already pay 10pc

[Sir Tigger KC]

I suppose the million dollar question is why should other countries accept our terms? On what basis?

I suspect an independent UK's terms would be a lot less onerous and demanding than the EU's. 

All Britain will want to achieve from a trade deal is the ability to trade freely with that country, with minimal paperwork and low or zero tariffs. 

I can't see Britain demanding contributions to our budget, the right of our people to live and work in that country and maybe even the regulatory burden would be less onerous. 

In theory it should be quick and simple.  Just 2 countries thrashing out a deal, which the US and Australia managed in 2 years. 

How long have they been negotiating TTIP? 

[johnny_boy]

I suppose the million dollar question is why should other countries accept our terms? On what basis?

I suspect an independent UK's terms would be a lot less onerous and demanding than the EU's. 

All Britain will want to achieve from a trade deal is the ability to trade freely with that country, with minimal paperwork and low or zero tariffs. 

I can't see Britain demanding contributions to our budget, the right of our people to live and work in that country and maybe even the regulatory burden would be less onerous. 

In theory it should be quick and simple.  Just 2 countries thrashing out a deal, which the US and Australia managed in 2 years. 

How long have they been negotiating TTIP? 

You do reaise with that statement about the uk not demanding the right to live in the others country will affect 1.2 million britons? The number who live abroad in the eu?
What does the leave campaign propose for these people? Should they be repatriated? Or just leave them hung out to dry?