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[Sir Tigger KC]

Surely those that are calling for VDL to resign/be sacked should also be calling for Boris to resign/be sacked too?

I mean, it's a negotiation where the two sides appear to have failed to come to an agreement. Both sides have principles that they are unwilling to soften enough for there to be a meeting on some middle ground. Blaming this all on one side appears to be a "we want our cake and to eat it" argument. Why is Boris 'blameless' and it's all VDL's fault.

As for the 50 FTA's - the vast majority of these are simple extensions of pre-existing EU FTA's to include the UK in a post BREXIT world. We already had these FTA's as a result of EU membership, and the 'new' signings just mean they will continue once the UK is fully out of the EU.

Ah yes, but Boris was elected to Get Brexit Done!  So deal or no deal he will achieve what he promised, and at the end of the day although most leavers would like a mutually beneficial deal with the EU and to keep relations nice and friendly, the old mantra No Deal Is Better Than A Bad Deal still rings true. 

You're right about the 50 FTA's being mostly cut n paste jobs of existing EU FTA's, but and it's a big but, the nay sayers said that even this was an impossibility because we're just a little speck in the North Sea.     As I understand it though some of the deals are different and more tailored to the two countries and others will be springboards for further talks to extend and improve current terms.  Canada annd Singapore for example.

[LC0112G]

Surely those that are calling for VDL to resign/be sacked should also be calling for Boris to resign/be sacked too?

I mean, it's a negotiation where the two sides appear to have failed to come to an agreement. Both sides have principles that they are unwilling to soften enough for there to be a meeting on some middle ground. Blaming this all on one side appears to be a "we want our cake and to eat it" argument. Why is Boris 'blameless' and it's all VDL's fault.

As for the 50 FTA's - the vast majority of these are simple extensions of pre-existing EU FTA's to include the UK in a post BREXIT world. We already had these FTA's as a result of EU membership, and the 'new' signings just mean they will continue once the UK is fully out of the EU.

Ah yes, but Boris was elected to Get Brexit Done!  So deal or no deal he will achieve what he promised, and at the end of the day although most leavers would like a mutually beneficial deal with the EU and to keep relations nice and friendly, the old mantra No Deal Is Better Than A Bad Deal still rings true. 

The EU has also used the No Deal Is Better Than A Bad Deal mantra recently, and from their POV it means no-deal is preferable to compromising their Single Market ideals. Why would the EU member nations try to remove VDL when she is following the views of the majority of member states?

You're right about the 50 FTA's being mostly cut n paste jobs of existing EU FTA's, but and it's a big but, the nay sayers said that even this was an impossibility because we're just a little speck in the North Sea.     As I understand it though some of the deals are different and more tailored to the two countries and others will be springboards for further talks to extend and improve current terms.  Canada annd Singapore for example.

Yes there are some relatively minor tweaks in some cases. The real issue is that these FTA's only cover a small fraction of the UK's trade - I think I read somewhere that it's less than 20%. The FTA that matters the most is the one covering 45% of UK trade - the trade that goes to/from the EU. In effect we're throwing £100 out of the car window, and then celebrating that we've managed to recover £20.

[Doctor Gollum]

We were never going to get a deal from them, so I don't see why all the shocked surprise.

And that's got nothing to do with Boris, or the wet fish he took over from.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

The wet fish was offered a Canada style trade deal right at the start. She turned it down, and has never explained why afaik.
That may well have given the impression that the UK establishment werent going to properly leave, but wanted to appear to be leaving, which was the hallmark of her Premiership.
That impression still lingers in Brussels today imo. I honestly think that they believe its all bluff and the UK will give in at the end.
Macron said so today. I think it was a tweet, advising Barniers team to" not let up on applying the pressure. The Brits will fold".
I think Boris is smart enough a politician to know that if he caved in at this stage, he would be toast.
He would be torn to shreds and thrown on the scrapheap by the new year.

[Sir Tigger KC]

The EU has also used the No Deal Is Better Than A Bad Deal mantra recently, and from their POV it means no-deal is preferable to compromising their Single Market ideals. Why would the EU member nations try to remove VDL when she is following the views of the majority of member states?

If that's the case then we should just call it quits and get on with it, but it seems to me that the EU are desperately trying to keep control over us with their so called fair competition level playing field demands that are far from fair or level.    And if there is no deal we'll see how popular the EU is on the continent when their seafood and lamb jumps in price.  I'd wager that there will be discontent, as I don't think that the EU is as popular across the channel as British remainers/rejoiners seem to think.  We'll see....

Anyway I didn't say that anyone is trying to get rid of VDL, just pointing out that in any other organisation the person responsible for such a failure would resign, be 'asked' to resign or simply sacked.  VDL will sail on as if nothing untoward has happened! 

Yes there are some relatively minor tweaks in some cases. The real issue is that these FTA's only cover a small fraction of the UK's trade - I think I read somewhere that it's less than 20%. The FTA that matters the most is the one covering 45% of UK trade - the trade that goes to/from the EU. In effect we're throwing £100 out of the car window, and then celebrating that we've managed to recover £20.

That's a fair point, but should we sign any deal just because of that?  What the EU have in mind for us is that we apply EU laws, rules and regulations to our entire economy including future changes that may well be detrimental to the UK.  That is patently absurd as the proportion of our GDP that is generated by trade with the EU is relatively small.  About 10% I think.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

7% I believe. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

7% I believe. 

They should have written that on the bus! 

[TheBoy]

Surely those that are calling for VDL to resign/be sacked should also be calling for Boris to resign/be sacked too?

I mean, it's a negotiation where the two sides appear to have failed to come to an agreement. Both sides have principles that they are unwilling to soften enough for there to be a meeting on some middle ground. Blaming this all on one side appears to be a "we want our cake and to eat it" argument. Why is Boris 'blameless' and it's all VDL's fault?

As for the 50 FTA's - the vast majority of these are simple extensions of pre-existing EU FTA's to include the UK in a post BREXIT world. We already had these FTA's as a result of EU membership, and the 'new' signings just mean they will continue once the UK is fully out of the EU.

Now you're letting the truth get in the way of a good brainwashing.  Thats not going to o down well around here

[TheBoy]

An FTA with the worlds 5/6th biggest economy on their doorstep

And a lot of that was due to being in the Common Market and its various rehashes.

The fact is, and has always been, we are relatively insignificant compared to the EU. We might be on a par with the individual countries that make up the EU. And the inability of the UK to get its (promised, by the Leave Brigade) cake and eat it is a simple reflection of that, no matter how gormless Boris and Co have been.  Negotiation will never go in your favour when the other side holds all the aces. And trying to blame the other side for having the better hand and insisting they resign is beyond ridiculous.

And that is exactly why it has all turned out exactly as those not in cloud cuckoo land predicted. Or Project Fear, for those brainwashed by the silly tit Farage.


Obviously, the fact we could not get our systems working for the end of the transition period just shows that the useless baffoon really doesn't know his arse from his elbow.  But it also shows how much this country is going to struggle, we have a long history of not being able to implement anything sadly.

[Doctor Gollum]

Has anyone ACTUALLY tried?

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

If we are insigniificant why are they so fickin terrified of us being successful that they are utterly insistent that we follow all their rules on trade etc, to prevent us from being more competitive than them ?
It just doesnt add up Im afraid.
There are only two significant economies left in the EU, and they are both close to being in serious trouble.
Just watch the pressure mount up on Merkel from German industry (cars in particular) if we leave on WTO terms.

Edit. Its already happening.
https://britannianews.co.uk/2020/10/09/german-car-industry-cranks-up-the-pressure-on-merkel-to-tell-macron-to-drop-his-redlines-on-fisheries/

[Varche]

EU popularity.

Well Spanish folk say. We have benefitted ( had so many handouts) and we have trade. When I say wait till you are paying East European countries and buying their products, they just laugh and say bring it on. They wont be laughing so much when farming subsidies are reduced.

[Nick W]

We were never going to get a deal from them, so I don't see why all the shocked surprise.

And that's got nothing to do with Boris, or the wet fish he took over from.

But they were both dependent on the fantasists who were vocal about a pro=British deal being easy, and to the hardliners who won't give an inch. On top of that, any PM who had stood up in parliament after the referendum and said nobody is getting a deal worth having would have been laughed out of power.


Of course, dragging the whole debacle out for four years is a terrible policy too.

[STEMO]

I didn't consider a trade deal, or negotiations, or anything other than leaving. I'm still happy 

[Doctor Gollum]

Regardless of the EUs feelings, we seem to be arranging trade deals readily enough with every one else...

Obviously that's positive, so no one will bother to mention it