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[Martin_1962]

One thing of note is that people from the lower end of things are having a lot more children than better educated people / better positioned in life are having less.

I am NOT decrying all children from disadvantaged families of course, just where many children are produced and parents do not install respect and good attitude, (I grew up in a mobile home!)

But looking at trends - do you think there will be repercussions in the future?

Your thoughts please.

[HolyCount]

I feel ( perhaps incorrectly ) that many no-earners reproduce as a means to increase benefits and secure housing. Also declining educational standards leads to the inability to read the instructions on contraceptives !

[Martin_1962]

I feel ( perhaps incorrectly ) that many no-earners reproduce as a means to increase benefits and secure housing. Also declining educational standards leads to the inability to read the instructions on contraceptives !

That is the feeling I get - I have three and it is a constant struggle

[waspy]

I feel ( perhaps incorrectly ) that many no-earners reproduce as a means to increase benefits and secure housing. Also declining educational standards leads to the inability to read the instructions on contraceptives !

Oh yes, how very true, not all, but i can think of some

[RichB]

I feel ( perhaps incorrectly ) that many no-earners reproduce as a means to increase benefits and secure housing. Also declining educational standards leads to the inability to read the instructions on contraceptives !

I think you are right here.  It will never happen but I believe you should only get benefits for 2 kids and any more kids and you need to support them yourself.  I would only consider having children when I am in a position to look after them financially.

When you hear about these families on benefits getting 100k a year for there 15 kids it makes me angry.  They should get a job then they wouldnt have the time or energy to have 15 kids!

Richard

[Lizzie_Zoom]

This is very contraversial ground as who of our politicians in our liberal democracy is going to stop those on benefit having children and what is the moral case / right to do so?

I have split opinions on this myself, 50% of which are not 'PC'!!

But China controls the number of children born in their (new social capitalist communist ) country and Nazi Germany tried the same!!

No easy answer? .......maybe!!

[JueV6]

But in the same lite as Mike F has said in the past, His son(s)/stepson(s), 1 is great the other is not so. My own step daughters 1 was as good as gold, the other, if there was a right and a wrong way, she'd choose the wrong way and then let everyone suffer the consequences

Same family (working) not a fantastic wage but better than some.
a Father that lived in the USA working for a british company good wage.

so why the difference in attitudes

give me an answer to that Martin?

[TheBoy]

Stupid or lazy people should not be allowed to procreate.

[HolyCount]

But in the same lite as Mike F has said in the past, His son(s)/stepson(s), 1 is great the other is not so. My own step daughters 1 was as good as gold, the other, if there was a right and a wrong way, she'd choose the wrong way and then let everyone suffer the consequences

Same family (working) not a fantastic wage but better than some.
a Father that lived in the USA working for a british company good wage.

so why the difference in attitudes

give me an answer to that Martin?

I have a similar situation and (apart from genetics --- different mix from the same pool) the only difference between them is the crowd they fell in with.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Stupid or lazy people should not be allowed to procreate.

I am glad an Admin has said that TB

[SheWhoMustNotBeOUTBID]

Anyone who thinks that a person would have a child for the increase of possibly £10 a week in Child benefit and £40 in child tax credits.., does not live in the real world.  Children cost much more than that to bring up a week. I have tried to live on benefits and well, lets say there was a lot of baked beans on toast and air for me in our meals.  Remember u have to keep a household running as well, provide extra warmth for the little one's too.  There is this 'myth' that people regard having children as an income booster.., and I must admit it makes me a little peeved because my heart totally sank when I realised I was pregnant with my second child. Benefits DO NOT permit u to live a life of riley however many children u do or do not have.

As for having children to secure housing.  Have the writers ever lived in a small dirty single room (till I cleaned the entire floor containing 5 other units) hostel, waiting for a council place.., to be told I'd be waiting 2 years - if I was lucky.  There were people in a same sized room with five children.  It wasn't a pleasant experience.  And it went on and on and on.  U seem to think there is an abundance of social housing available .., there isn't.  And having children is not an automatic lift up the list.  I was ill, had one child and pregnant with another and still was facing a two year wait.

I know there are a lot of judgements made about people with children.., on benefits.., but I am afraid when u look at the reality of the situation of a single/multi parented family on benefits, it just doesn't bear up.  I live in a deprived estate with over 300 families on the estate and I don't know a single family that deliberately has had children to gain a house or benefits.  They would all far far rather have some self respect, a job and so on.  Without exception.  But childcare absence here makes that very difficult.

And as for the wonderful chinese system of 'fining' people who do not have a licence for children (u have to have a licence for even one child).., people still get unwanted pregnancies there and then because there is no way they can pay the fines the babies get sold.., girl babies often into a life of slavery.  Not such a wonderful system perhaps.  And of course, the one's who suffer most are the children themselves who are the least 'guilty' party.

[JueV6]

Stupid or lazy people should not be allowed to procreate.

Totally agree.

Personal situation:
Have 1 12yr old and 1 30mth old here.
Childcare in wolves is non existant, so swmnbo has to stay home for the kids. does that make her lazy

if you think so, then you need to go back and think again

Just because I'm working for home now, Does that make me lazy.
I get up and do what I need to do. I'm in a privalidged situation. I can work and spend time with the family.

[TheBoy]

Anyone who thinks that a person would have a child for the increase of possibly £10 a week in Child benefit and £40 in child tax credits.., does not live in the real world.  Children cost much more than that to bring up a week. I have tried to live on benefits and well, lets say there was a lot of baked beans on toast and air for me in our meals.  Remember u have to keep a household running as well, provide extra warmth for the little one's too.  There is this 'myth' that people regard having children as an income booster.., and I must admit it makes me a little peeved because my heart totally sank when I realised I was pregnant with my second child. Benefits DO NOT permit u to live a life of riley however many children u do or do not have.

As for having children to secure housing.  Have the writers ever lived in a small dirty single room (till I cleaned the entire floor containing 5 other units) hostel, waiting for a council place.., to be told I'd be waiting 2 years - if I was lucky.  There were people in a same sized room with five children.  It wasn't a pleasant experience.  And it went on and on and on.  U seem to think there is an abundance of social housing available .., there isn't.  And having children is not an automatic lift up the list.  I was ill, had one child and pregnant with another and still was facing a two year wait.

I know there are a lot of judgements made about people with children.., on benefits.., but I am afraid when u look at the reality of the situation of a single/multi parented family on benefits, it just doesn't bear up.  I live in a deprived estate with over 300 families on the estate and I don't know a single family that deliberately has had children to gain a house or benefits.  They would all far far rather have some self respect, a job and so on.  Without exception.  But childcare absence here makes that very difficult.

And as for the wonderful chinese system of 'fining' people who do not have a licence for children (u have to have a licence for even one child).., people still get unwanted pregnancies there and then because there is no way they can pay the fines the babies get sold.., girl babies often into a life of slavery.  Not such a wonderful system perhaps.  And of course, the one's who suffer most are the children themselves who are the least 'guilty' party.

You just weren't good enough at claiming all benefits

TB runs and hides before SheWhoMustNotBeOutbid beats me to a pulp with a back seat

[STMO123]

The government are starting to introduce sex education into primary schools to stop teenage pregnancies. Round here a teenage pregnancy is a right of passage to a council house, next door to mum if possible please.

[HolyCount]

Anyone who thinks that a person would have a child for the increase of possibly £10 a week in Child benefit and £40 in child tax credits.., does not live in the real world.  Children cost much more than that to bring up a week. I have tried to live on benefits and well, lets say there was a lot of baked beans on toast and air for me in our meals.  Remember u have to keep a household running as well, provide extra warmth for the little one's too.  There is this 'myth' that people regard having children as an income booster.., and I must admit it makes me a little peeved because my heart totally sank when I realised I was pregnant with my second child. Benefits DO NOT permit u to live a life of riley however many children u do or do not have.

As for having children to secure housing.  Have the writers ever lived in a small dirty (till I cleaned the entire floor containing 5 other units) hostel, waiting for a council place.., to be told I'd be waiting 2 years - if I was lucky.  U seem to think there is an abundance of social housing available .., there isn't.  And having children is not an automatic lift up the list.  I was ill, had one child and pregnant with another and still was facing a two year wait.

I know there are a lot of judgements made about people with children.., on benefits.., but I am afraid when u look at the reality of the situation of a single/multi parented family on benefits, it just doesn't bear up.  I live in a deprived estate with over 300 families on the estate and I don't know a single family that deliberately has had children to gain a house or benefits.  They would all far far rather have some self respect, a job and so on.  Without exception.  But childcare absence here makes that very difficult.

I think a lot has to do with the area you live in and the attitude of the council.  I live in a rented 2 bed flat on the second storey and have been on the council waiting list for over a decade. The child I had living with me when I went on the list as a single parent has set up her own home and I now have a 2 year old.  In ten years I have never got anywhere near the top of the list and have always worked. Yet I see people all around me here ( normally single mums) getting housed -- if the council have no houses they rent privately and re-rent to the single mums.

I am afraid that, here at least, procreation IS a way to housing! Incidentally -- that does seem only to apply to the non workers!

As for the extra money not covering the costs -- in some cases this is true --- in those cases where the interests of the child are paramont. Otherwise you see the kids, barely cared for, hardly dressed and constantly hungry, while mum can afford to drink and smoke!!!!!

I personally know many families created to get benefits and housing --- usually one mum, several dads set ups !!!

I was brought up on a council estate, have been a single dad with a daughter living with me and have always managed to work --- and know for a fact that I was ( and still am) living on less that my non-working counterparts.

Am not spouting politically inspired hot air here -- I speak as you do -- from experience. However -- it would appear that my part of the world is far different.