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[Nickbat]

Thanks for that - I certainly don't want to fall out with you - we agree on many things.

While I am a firm supporter of European economic co-operation, and not averse to European political unity (in the sense of speaking with one voice on global issues), I am definitely not an enthusiast for the current crop of EU institutions.

The European Commission is a bureaucratic swamp, populated by stereotypical civil servants of the Jobsworth school of administrative obfuscation.  The only thing more horrifying than the level of incompetence displayed is the level of power these nonentities are able to wield.  The endemic corruption and wastefulness have to be seen to be believed.

The European Parliament is effectively powerless, because it dare not take on any really worthwhile legislation for fear of the major players (France, Germany, UK) walking out.

The whole shooting match needs booting out and we should start again from scratch.

Well, we certainly agree on that, J. !

[Banjax]

Huh? :-?

my way of saying hello Nick 

but seriously - it doesn't need expanding does it? as others have said they're a disgraceful, childish, self-serving bunch of little englanders who have no idea how to behave, hence resort to cheap publicity stunts and jumping on whichever band-wagons are passing

imagine that lot got in - we'd be the laughing-stock of europe in our little bowler hats, monocles and cups of tea 

[Nickbat]

Huh? :-?

my way of saying hello Nick 

but seriously - it doesn't need expanding does it? as others have said they're a disgraceful, childish, self-serving bunch of little englanders who have no idea how to behave, hence resort to cheap publicity stunts and jumping on whichever band-wagons are passing

imagine that lot got in - we'd be the laughing-stock of europe in our little bowler hats, monocles and cups of tea 

 

Have you actually READ their manifesto?  :-?

No, I didn't think so. 

[kevinminton]

I think you need to distinguish between wit and rudeness. 

You are entitled to your views about the EU, as is Mr. Farage.  But which part of democracy involves standing up in Parliament and being gratuitously offensive to elected officials?

I happen to disagree with you and Farage, as I think the economic future of this country must depend on our neighbours.  I am also in favour of an open immigration policy, as, to be honest, I don't have a lot of faith in the mindless thugs our current education system is turning out.  What's wrong with Polish plumbers and Indian doctors if we can't produce our own home grown talent?

I'd prefer to mix with those people than small-minded British boors like Farage.

1. Very gracious of you, but I suspect that freedom will disappear within the next decade. 

2. The term British used in a pejorative way, I notice! Pot..kettle..black comes to mind.

I really can't see how you arrived at that conclusion.  All I was trying to do was distinguish between the immigrant and the native workers in reference to my previous sentence.  I'm proud to be both English and British.  And, for that matter, Jewish.  I would never use any of those terms in a pejorative manner!

Also, I don't see the relevance of the "pot, kettle, black" comment.  Please explain.

I really am surprised to see you resorting to such left-wing distraction techniques.

You used the term small-minded British boors, and I took that to be a distinct, and inferior, variety of small-minded boor. Hence my pot..kettle...black remark was addressing the undertanding that you were of the opinion that Farage would not make comments about Belgium, but you could make remarks about the British people. I was mistaken and I take it back with an apology.

I really do fear the power of the EU and, since you seem to be less than keen on left-wing techniques (judging by your last remark), you may be interested to read this from 2001:

THE European Court of Justice ruled yesterday that the European Union can lawfully suppress political criticism of its institutions and of leading figures, sweeping aside English Common Law and 50 years of European precedents on civil liberties.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1325398/Euro-court-outlaws-criticism-of-EU.html

Now, that's socialism for you.

My deeply-held fears of the EU, my passion for democracy, and my disgust that none of the major parties will address this issue, means that (for me and I suspect many others) that the time for civility is over. If only by being loud and boorish can one get the point across, then so be it. The stakes are too high for niceties. 

 

For those that like to form their own opinions about the acts of the EU institutions, here http://curia.europa.eu/jurisp/cgi-bin/form.pl?lang=en&Submit=Rechercher&alldocs=alldocs&docj=docj&docop=docop&docor=docor&docjo=docjo&numaff=C-273/99&datefs=&datefe=&nomusuel=&domaine=&mots=&resmax=100 is the actual case report.

This may also help you form an opinion about the accuracy of the Telegraph article.

K

[Dishevelled Den]

Yes!  How dare that 'person' insult Belgium!!

How to make friends eh?!

I presume you're talking about Nigel Farage's peech last week.

I think we need to put this in perspective:
June 1978. House of Commons. Labour Chancellor Denis Healey describes being attacked by Geoffrey Howe (at the time the Conservative shadow Chancellor) as "like being savaged by a dead sheep".

Result: Much mirth. No censure of Healey. No outrage.

February 2010. European Parliament. Nigel Farage says Herman Van Rompuy has "the charisma of a damp rag".

Result: Censure. Much outrage at this un-British rudeness.

So, logically, being compared to a dead sheep is OK, but being compared to a damp rag is not. Clearly, for the media, it all comes down to who is making the comment.

UKIP have very little funds, and few friends in the liberal media. Had Farage merely pointed out in a very low key civil manner the obvious fact that Van Rumpuy has not been elected by the people and that his post of president is not therefore democratically valid, his speech would not have received any coverage. He gave it full guns and got plenty of column inches and many people have taken on board the undemocratic nature of this charade which is known as the EU.

I would like to point out that anyone who supported Scottish and Welsh devolution (bringing democracy nearer to the people) must, unless they are a hypocrite, be against more powers being transferred to Brussels.

Well done, Nigel. 

I'm rather disappointed by this speech Nick - reported in the Guardian link given by Elizabeth - as many valid points made by Farage were diminished in effect somewhat by his outright hostility towards Van Rompuy and Belgium.

Dealings with this bureaucratic behemoth need an approach steeped in forensic detail, not intemperate language that simply blurs the real issues which need to be addressed.

On the basis of what I heard Farage lost a deal of credibility by making those remarks rather than sticking to a hard-hitting unequivocal fact based speech on the potential failings and unsavoury nature of this particular appointment, and of the constitution and overall intent of this worrying body in general. 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Today Farage has been rightly fined 3,000 euros for refusing to apologise for his outburst

[STMO999]

Today Farage has been rightly fined 3,000 euros for refusing to apologise for his outburst

He'll insist on paying it in pounds sterling.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Today Farage has been rightly fined 3,000 euros for refusing to apologise for his outburst

He'll insist on paying it in pounds sterling.

 

[Kevin Wood]

Today Farage has been rightly fined 3,000 euros for refusing to apologise for his outburst

He'll insist on paying it in pounds sterling.

Worth every penny.

Kevin

[Dishevelled Den]

Today Farage has been rightly fined 3,000 euros for refusing to apologise for his outburst

He'll insist on paying it in pounds sterling.

Hahahahahaha - gold standard posting  8-)

[zippo]

I'd never heard of the fella until tonight .I've just had to search you tube for him . He fascinates me ,well his attitude fascinates me .How can someone talk sorry shout for 10 minuets and say nothing .

[STMO999]

I'd never heard of the fella until tonight .I've just had to search you tube for him . He fascinates me ,well his attitude fascinates me .How can someone talk sorry shout for 10 minuets and say nothing .

I've never seen him dance.

[zippo]

I'd never heard of the fella until tonight .I've just had to search you tube for him . He fascinates me ,well his attitude fascinates me .How can someone talk sorry shout for 10 minuets and say nothing .

I've never seen him dance.[/quote]




dunno why not he seems to do everything else to get attention

[STMO999]

I'd never heard of the fella until tonight .I've just had to search you tube for him . He fascinates me ,well his attitude fascinates me .How can someone talk sorry shout for 10 minuets and say nothing .

I've never seen him dance.[/quote]




dunno why not he seems to do everything else to get attention

Well, you said he did ten minuets.

[Del Boy]

Huh? :-?

my way of saying hello Nick 

but seriously - it doesn't need expanding does it? as others have said they're a disgraceful, childish, self-serving bunch of little englanders who have no idea how to behave, hence resort to cheap publicity stunts and jumping on whichever band-wagons are passing

imagine that lot got in - we'd be the laughing-stock of europe in our little bowler hats, monocles and cups of tea 

 

And we're really that brilliant now?