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[TheBoy]

To me, the actual idle air looks more plausible than the desired idle air...

[RossMk2]

Andy: Compression test was done not too long back and everything was fine

To me, the actual idle air looks more plausible than the desired idle air...

Really so what would that mean then, as to why the idle is off also?

[Kevin Wood]

The following look a little odd to me...
                  

Park/Neutral Switch      R-D-3-2-1  12V                  

Presumably it was in P or N when taking the log?
Not sure this would do that much other then increase the idle speed? Is the ECU configured correctly for auto / manual transmission?

O2-Loop 1 Integrator      154 Steps                  
O2-Loop 2 Integrator      102                  

The 2 O2 loops have already started diverging.

Engine Speed      408 RPM                  
Desired Engine Idle Speed      1.040 RPM                  

Why is desired idle speed so high and why is it not achieved?

Desired Idle Air      55 kg/h                  
Actual Value Idle Air      12 kg/h                  

Again desired idle air is very high.

Injection Pulse      5.9 ms                  

That's much too much fuel for 12Kg/h intake air.

I wonder if the ICV is stuck for one, perhaps an air leak, exhaust blow or stuck EGR valve throwing the lambda reading on one bank off.

Maybe its' rough running has caused the ECU to raise target idle speed and air, but it can't be achieved due to ICV stuck.

Then there's the gearbox reportedly in R-D-3-2-1. :-/

Kevin

[RossMk2]

Thanks for the reply Kevin, i'll try and explain what i know.

The engine once upon a time was an auto but i have it running an F20 manual gearbox.

I would say the desired idle is so high as that reading was taken from first starting the car on a morning. As to why it wants so much air and is only getting a 5th of it i cannot explain, i thought it was lack of air getting in but you and The Boy seem to think its wanting way too much.

As to the injector pulse again i have not a clue! Hehe

The ICV has not long been cleaned, its the 3rd one i have tried as i was blaming it for dodgy idle but it doesnt seem so. Cant find an air leak on the induction side and from an ear test cant find an exhaust leak either but am going to get the manifold gaskets change to make double sure. The EGR valve is blocked off but still present bolted to bulkhead.

As to the ECU raising the target air because of a problem, would it not have reset along with all the other sensors or is this something that doesnt reset/learn?

[Kevin Wood]

Hmm. :-/

Struggling to remember what some of these parameters look like on a working engine, TBH.

What I would say is:

Actual reading from the MAF looks fine for an engine idling at that speed.

Injector duration should be around 3 ms when idling. OK, this is a cold engine so perhaps 4-4.5 ms. It's higher than that so something has pushed the fuel up.

If it runs fine after a reset and gets progressively worse it points to the lambda loops taking the fuelling out.

Desired idle and air look way out, but not something I've often looked at on data from healthy cars so maybe TADTS.

It looks like the ECU thinks it's got an auto gearbox and maybe something it's expecting from the auto gearbox is screwing it up (perhaps the torque reduce signal?). I can't remember if this ECU is configured with Tech 2 to be auto or manual, or if it's achieved by strapping one of the inputs in the wiring harness. :-/

I might be inclined to disconnect both lambda sensors, reset the block learning and then start it and see how it behaves, and take another snapshot.

Kevin

[TheBoy]

Hmm. :-/

Struggling to remember what some of these parameters look like on a working engine, TBH.

What I would say is:

Actual reading from the MAF looks fine for an engine idling at that speed.

Injector duration should be around 3 ms when idling. OK, this is a cold engine so perhaps 4-4.5 ms. It's higher than that so something has pushed the fuel up.

If it runs fine after a reset and gets progressively worse it points to the lambda loops taking the fuelling out.

Desired idle and air look way out, but not something I've often looked at on data from healthy cars so maybe TADTS.

It looks like the ECU thinks it's got an auto gearbox and maybe something it's expecting from the auto gearbox is screwing it up (perhaps the torque reduce signal?). I can't remember if this ECU is configured with Tech 2 to be auto or manual, or if it's achieved by strapping one of the inputs in the wiring harness. :-/

I might be inclined to disconnect both lambda sensors, reset the block learning and then start it and see how it behaves, and take another snapshot.

Kevin

I did start collecting snapshots from various engines.

But then like a first class prat, rebuilt the lappy without hooking them off 

[RossMk2]

Hmm. :-/

Struggling to remember what some of these parameters look like on a working engine, TBH.

What I would say is:

Actual reading from the MAF looks fine for an engine idling at that speed.

Injector duration should be around 3 ms when idling. OK, this is a cold engine so perhaps 4-4.5 ms. It's higher than that so something has pushed the fuel up.

If it runs fine after a reset and gets progressively worse it points to the lambda loops taking the fuelling out.

Desired idle and air look way out, but not something I've often looked at on data from healthy cars so maybe TADTS.

It looks like the ECU thinks it's got an auto gearbox and maybe something it's expecting from the auto gearbox is screwing it up (perhaps the torque reduce signal?). I can't remember if this ECU is configured with Tech 2 to be auto or manual, or if it's achieved by strapping one of the inputs in the wiring harness. :-/

I might be inclined to disconnect both lambda sensors, reset the block learning and then start it and see how it behaves, and take another snapshot.

Kevin

Might try that Kevin, unplugging, reset then run around without them for awhile. One thing i noticed is that when unplugged no fault code is present. See what we get as after a reset it does run fine apart from not wanting to idle especially when cold, what does TADTS mean? 

As to the ECU can it be re-programmed or is there an ECU i can use thats manual, this engine was the early 1994 X30XE

[Kevin Wood]

wanting to idle especially when cold, what does TADTS mean?

Sorry.  TADTS = They All Do That, Sir.

If the ECU is configurable for Auto / Manual it will be possible to so do with a Tech 2.

Kevin

[RossMk2]

wanting to idle especially when cold, what does TADTS mean?

Sorry.  TADTS = They All Do That, Sir.

If the ECU is configurable for Auto / Manual it will be possible to so do with a Tech 2.

Kevin

Hehe an to think i should know all the Abb.

I wonder if they are? I do have another ECU but its exactly the same part no. as the one installed so would imagine thats auto also?

There should be a fault code flagged up straight away with the O2 sensors unplugged should there not?

[Kevin Wood]

Hehe an to think i should know all the Abb.

I wonder if they are? I do have another ECU but its exactly the same part no. as the one installed so would imagine thats auto also?

There should be a fault code flagged up straight away with the O2 sensors unplugged should there not?

The same part number doesn't necessarily mean the same config. in the ECU. Might be worth a try...

It will raise a fault code with the Lambdas disconnected but it will force it to run open loop and if it runs acceptably it goes some way to proving that the Lambdas were driving the fuelling into a zone where it runs grumpy.

I don't suppose the Lambdas for banks 1 and 2 have been cross-connected? 

Kevin

[CaptainZok]

The following look a little odd to me...
                  

Park/Neutral Switch      R-D-3-2-1  12V                  

Presumably it was in P or N when taking the log?
Not sure this would do that much other then increase the idle speed? Is the ECU configured correctly for auto / manual transmission?

O2-Loop 1 Integrator      154 Steps                  
O2-Loop 2 Integrator      102                  

The 2 O2 loops have already started diverging.

Engine Speed      408 RPM                  
Desired Engine Idle Speed      1.040 RPM                  

Why is desired idle speed so high and why is it not achieved?

Desired Idle Air      55 kg/h                  
Actual Value Idle Air      12 kg/h                  

Again desired idle air is very high.

Injection Pulse      5.9 ms                  

That's much too much fuel for 12Kg/h intake air.

I wonder if the ICV is stuck for one, perhaps an air leak, exhaust blow or stuck EGR valve throwing the lambda reading on one bank off.

Maybe its' rough running has caused the ECU to raise target idle speed and air, but it can't be achieved due to ICV stuck.

Then there's the gearbox reportedly in R-D-3-2-1. :-/

Kevin

Seems that's a normal response from an auto in gear Kev, mine reports that when not in park/neutral when it reverts to P - N  0V

[TheBoy]

The following look a little odd to me...
                  

Park/Neutral Switch      R-D-3-2-1  12V                  

Presumably it was in P or N when taking the log?
Not sure this would do that much other then increase the idle speed? Is the ECU configured correctly for auto / manual transmission?

O2-Loop 1 Integrator      154 Steps                  
O2-Loop 2 Integrator      102                  

The 2 O2 loops have already started diverging.

Engine Speed      408 RPM                  
Desired Engine Idle Speed      1.040 RPM                  

Why is desired idle speed so high and why is it not achieved?

Desired Idle Air      55 kg/h                  
Actual Value Idle Air      12 kg/h                  

Again desired idle air is very high.

Injection Pulse      5.9 ms                  

That's much too much fuel for 12Kg/h intake air.

I wonder if the ICV is stuck for one, perhaps an air leak, exhaust blow or stuck EGR valve throwing the lambda reading on one bank off.

Maybe its' rough running has caused the ECU to raise target idle speed and air, but it can't be achieved due to ICV stuck.

Then there's the gearbox reportedly in R-D-3-2-1. :-/

Kevin

Seems that's a normal response from an auto in gear Kev, mine reports that when not in park/neutral when it reverts to P - N  0V

Yeah, its on or other when configed for auto. This is a manual though, suspect ecu misconfigured, though not convinced thats the cause of the problem

[CaptainZok]

Maybe a recording of live data rather than a snapshot would reveal more.

[RossMk2]

CaptainZok: I have seen the record button on "My Naff Code Reader", i'll take a look.

The same part number doesn't necessarily mean the same config. in the ECU. Might be worth a try...

It will raise a fault code with the Lambdas disconnected but it will force it to run open loop and if it runs acceptably it goes some way to proving that the Lambdas were driving the fuelling into a zone where it runs grumpy.

I don't suppose the Lambdas for banks 1 and 2 have been cross-connected? 

Kevin

A couple of people have said the same asking if the plugs have been crossed over, im pretty sure this isnt the case and cant remember when it COULD have happened pretty sure they have been cabled tied since installation so couldn't have got mixed up. What would changing them over do if there were right in the first place, dont suppose it couldn't make it any worse ay? Hehe

Also whats worrying is that no fault codes are reported when O2 sensors unplugged.

TheBoy: Would it being an Auto really cause problems? How do i go about getting it to manual, has to be a Tech2 job?

Lastly (i know... hehe) we are cracking on with the O2 fault but we know from the readings its wanting way too much air at idle but what could be causing it not idling correctly and not even bother when cold?

[TheBoy]

dont believe the misconfig of gearbox is your problem.  Can't guarantee that though