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Author Topic: Scimitar MV6  (Read 91196 times)

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lozzzzzz

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Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #465 on: 30 July 2013, 12:37:49 »

I've just had it weighed!  I'm a little disappointed with the total but very pleased with the balance.  With me on board the front end is supporting 660kg and rear 620kg.  GIVING A TOTAL OF 1200kg (without the 80kg driver).  I think I was expecting it to be a little less having lost the Essex engine, but I have put a load of LPG gear in it. 

These number were with the gas tank empty and the petrol tank at about 1/4.

THIS MAKES THE BALANCE  51.6% front, not bad at all :) :)

Next thing is to use the bathroom scales and try to weigh the unsprung weight, then do some calculations and get the right springs :)

More to come
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symes

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Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #466 on: 30 July 2013, 21:13:42 »

my rover weighs 1206--- :y :y :y and its metal/aluminum not exploding fibreglass--prang it - it shatters=mate had scimitar-got it killed when it got in a prang  :'( But keep at it mate--you will do it
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lozzzzzz

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Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #467 on: 31 July 2013, 08:52:42 »

Wait, the car got killed not the mate right? 

I understand they're pretty good in accidents, on that they break up lots( very sad) but protect the occupants quite well (for a classic)
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Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #468 on: 31 July 2013, 11:21:12 »

Wait, the car got killed not the mate right? 

I understand they're pretty good in accidents, on that they break up lots( very sad) but protect the occupants quite well (for a classic)

Probably best not too try finding out TBH :-X
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lozzzzzz

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Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #469 on: 30 August 2013, 22:02:41 »

Its been a while and I hope you're concentrating :)

Tonight I've removed the balance pipe I put in and I've welded up one of the holes.  I'm pretty sure I'll be making up some silencers of my own now, I'll be looking at copying something like the design of the Flowmaster exhausts I think. 



I've finally done the weighing of the un-sprung weight of the car.  This was a little tricky even with the simple method of removing the springs and lowering the wheel onto the bathroom scales.  The trouble was the friction in the bushes.  So I weighed it on the way down then continued to lower the car, then raised it and took another reading on the way back up (the average of the values is the true unsprung weight plus a little extra for the spring).  I did this a load of times and got a very interesting result.....

The front unsprung weight was (a massive) 87kg per side, and the rear was less!!!! at 73kg per side.   I didn't see that coming (with a heavy beam axle on the rear). 


Now there are people who can build cars, and people who can drive them, then there are the rare skilled folk who can drive a car and can feel what alterations need making.  I'm not one of them, so I was genuinely relieved to find there are some calculations you can do to get the spring rates in the ball part.  Hence the all the weighing.  The end goal is to find the natural frequency of the car front and back and bring these frequency figures close together.  Here is the page I used from "The Race and Rally Source Book" Alan Staniforth:  (If you're interested read between the red bits)



Now to cut a very long story reasonably short, you need to know
Axle wieghts
Unsprungs weights
to find the sprung weights of each corner of the car.
Then the coil spring rates
leverage ratios
leverage ratio ^2
Effective coil rates due to their angle on inclination (a little trigonometry)
to get the wheel ratio
then using the sprung weight and the wheel ratio, calculate the natural frequency. 

Which is exactly what I did here:


The book is a little old but basic physics doesn't change, it suggests that for a road car the natural frequency (in cycles per minute) should be between 60 and 80, then 80 - 100 for a sports car, 100 - 125 for race cars.  With the front being between 10 and 20 less than the rear.  You can see mine in the sheet above.  I was expecting to have to get stronger springs for the rear, but it seems the opposite is true I need to strengthen up the front end to get the balance right (show's I'm not much good at "feeling" what a car needs :) )

The reason the front needs to be so much stronger on Scimitars is the fact that the wishbones weaken the effect of the springs by giving the wheels more leverage of the spring. 

I've yet to decide which to buy but I'm thinking 450lb/in front and 225 rear to get the balance spot on. 

Hope you took all that in :)

More to come.
« Last Edit: 30 August 2013, 22:09:11 by lozzzzzz »
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lozzzzzz

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Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #470 on: 08 September 2013, 16:51:14 »

I faffed on this morning and this afternoon doing electric jobs, a diode here and a new bulb there and I put a new hose between the clutch reservoir and the master cylinder.  This job has been dragging a little.  I got the reservoir and a short length of hose from a civic 'great' I thought, 'OEM quality', 'this must be up to the handling DOT4' but after 6 months use its soaked through and turning the fluid black. 

Brake fluid is nasty! it eats all sorts.  My buddy is a materials engineer and had a theory that acetylene corrodes hoses in a similar way to brake fluid, so got some welding hose for his car......   it ate through it!  Its lunches paintwork hoses even the OEM flexi hoses eventually. 

I was nearly at the point of spending £18 on a new Honda part (£18 for 20cm of hose!!!!!).  Then tried a hydraulics place.  The chap behind the desk reckons the hose he gave me is good for petrol diesel, all kinds of oils and selection of other chemicals, so should be alright.  He also gave me a section of nylon line with SS over braid, and they were both Gratis!.  I've got with the fuel hose first as its the only one I had clips to fit. 

If that fails I've give the nylon one a go. 


Boring story over :)

I've got lots of big jobs to do but I'm just scratching the surface at the moment for fear of the car not being road worthy for the photo shoot at the end of the month.  When photos are taken and the car SORN for a while, then I can get stuck into the earth loops, and finishing preparations for the roll hoop to be made, then get some bucket seats and the last harness and it'll be ready for some track action :)
I'm thinking about dropping a cheeky little supercharger in there too :)

I might change the spring rates before the shoot, and I'm itching to get the exhausts changed as soon as they arrive....  Can't wait.
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Rods2

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Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #471 on: 08 September 2013, 17:25:38 »

Sounds like a plan of action and work is in progress to take it to the next level.  :y :y :y

Good luck and keep us informed on this interesting and excellent project, from which I have learned a lot on transforming a car with more modern running gear :y :y :y :y now I keep thinking about Omegas and GM 3.6l V6's.  ::) :)
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lozzzzzz

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Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #472 on: 09 September 2013, 07:10:44 »

Good plan Rods2, :)  I like that plan.

Less thinking more doing, actually lets be sensible...

More thinking then more doing! :)
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lozzzzzz

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Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #473 on: 14 September 2013, 12:14:20 »

I tried these:



No difference, literally no difference.  Its my fault I'm faffing and trying to get something not too restrictive. 

New idea.....

Does anyone know if the middle silencer on the V6 exhaust system is straight through or not?

Or does anyone have an old one going very cheap???
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F1 9LFG

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Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #474 on: 21 September 2013, 00:15:13 »

Hey, the mid boxes are straight through.
I made a custom v6 exhaust once, put pics on here but can't find them now...

 :y

EDIT - http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=45573.0

Photobucket is down at the moment but they should show soon
« Last Edit: 21 September 2013, 00:28:13 by F1 9LFG »
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #475 on: 21 September 2013, 11:27:52 »

I don't think the mid boxes are straight through actually.

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=101482.0

Quite a bit of baffling and sound deadening in there.
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lozzzzzz

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Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #476 on: 27 September 2013, 07:05:28 »

Kevin, that box is defo not straight through, but I've got a feeling that's not the center box on a v6?

F19LGF  I would be very interest to see your photos, but there are none on the thread you've posted :(
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Lazydocker

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Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #477 on: 27 September 2013, 08:14:45 »

That hose should be ok... It looks like the same hose I use for contaminated fuel ;)
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F1 9LFG

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Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #478 on: 27 September 2013, 23:22:48 »

Kevin, that box is defo not straight through, but I've got a feeling that's not the center box on a v6?

F19LGF  I would be very interest to see your photos, but there are none on the thread you've posted :(

Hi Loz,

I've tried tracking down the photos but can't locate them anywhere sadly. It also seems imageshack have closed my account probably due to the fact I haven't logged into it for 2+years!

My ones where like this

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?start=205&sa=X&biw=1024&bih=745&tbm=isch&tbnid=vCSspL2IWZ_1lM:&imgrefurl=http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/condell-park/other-automotive/vf-ve-vz-vy-v8-v6-commodore-sports-exhaust-performance-mufflers/1009765116&docid=zXVTnlHiJwfpDM&imgurl=http://imgc.classistatic.com/cps/blnc/121119/691r1/9721jc6_20.jpeg&w=800&h=600&ei=uQJGUpbfItCUhQfGjoGgDQ&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:8,s:200,i:28&iact=rc&page=12&tbnh=170&tbnw=228&ndsp=22&tx=68&ty=75

the center boxes were straight through, a tube passed inline with where the exhaust enters/exits, this tube was perforated. the box was filled with a fibre material.

I didn't notice much difference at all (sound wise) once I took my centers out, Guessing they really aid back pressure??

If I find the pics I'll post them.

HTH'd

Rob  :y
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lozzzzzz

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Re: Scimitar MV6
« Reply #479 on: 01 October 2013, 06:56:35 »

Cool, the hose seems to putting up with it so far :)

I like those twin cherry bombs, I should think thats a little loud too :)

If the mid boxes are straight through they would have very little effect on back pressure, straight through boxes tend to attenuate the high pitch sounds from an exhaust (right at the top end) I should think GM put those in for fine tuning of the high revs exhaust note. 

I've got a new plan now (another one) all will be revealed soon. 
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