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[tigers_gonads]

I would use a bit of steel plate for blanking the egr valve off Debs.

Copper might be a little weak and get a bit hot on a long run 

[amba]

Debs.

I am sure you will be fine with it

[Marks DTM Calib]

weve sprayed carb cleaner all round, no change in engine noise.....livedata snapshot follows....

Not actualy that great a test due to the various 'drafts' around the engine, would be interesting to see an idel vac reading

Its the base of the large breatehr that fails adn the brake servo pipe wear fault you know about.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Right, no obvious issue with the CTS on those data results and MAF looks fine

Also, has anybody cleaned the throttle body and ensured that the throttle butterflies are closing fully?

[Debs.]

has anybody cleaned the throttle body and ensured that the throttle butterflies are closing fully?

Yes Sir.....Me, Sir!

They were EXTREMELY dirty and took much carb-cleaner and toothbrushing to get through the sooty/sticky-black goo......which is why I thought that I should now blank the EGR feed too.

[Marks DTM Calib]

The goo comes from the breathers, the EGR vents onto the inlet side of the throttles and hence to a vac so wont have a major impact on the butterflies.

Key thing is, do the throttle valves fully close (as they should) without sticking (let them close to hard an they bind on the throttle barrel).

My concern is that we may have a scenario where the butterflies are not fully closing (possibly due to a past bodge by a former owner), this causes the idle valve to work at one end of its operating capability and hence massively increases its potential to 'stick'.

Hence a 'known good' valve is now operting at a different range on this engine setup.

As a tip, you can leave those idle valves full of carb cleaner and work the flap back and forth a load of times and you get stacks of rubbish and muck out of them still

[ngrainqey]

i've got one or two sets of throttle butterflies knocking about in my garage if anybody needs one?
..or should i horde them for myself when i get another omega   

[Debs.]

Update on the pup-mobile`s low/no idle issues:
My nephew and I managed to swap-out the ECU coolant sensor today (low-profile ratchet ring-spanner loosened/tightened the sensor)......we also replaced the upper-plenum and breather O-rings (just in case of a contributory vacuum issue).

The idle now seems steady and predictable and after several miles on a test drive in stop/go traffic, the engine didn`t stall once (having stopped at every junction during a previous journey a few days ago)

The real test will be a cold start and a 'stop-go' drive from a fully-cold engine (tomorrow morning)....if all`s well on that, then the pup-mobile is fixed!
Keep your finger`s crossed!

Many thanks to OOF members for your advice, help and support with these problems. ....(You know whom you are!)

[TheBoy]

heres the live data...Before some parts replaced (Maf & ICV)

Identifier   0D
Battery Voltage   13.8 V
Immobiliser Signal   Received
Immobiliser   Active
TPS Signal (Throttle Position Sensor)   0.51 V
Simulated Idle Position   Active
Simulated Full Load Switch   Inactive
Mass Air Flow Sensor   0.64 V
Mass Air Flow Sensor   10 kg/h
Coolant Temperature   1.40 V
Coolant Temperature   74 °C
Intake Air Temperature   3.08 V
Intake Air Temperature   31 °C
Engine Type   6 Cylinder
Transmission Coding   Automatic Transmission
Park/Neutral Switch   P - N  0V
A/C Information Switch (Air Conditioning)   Inactive 0V
A/C Compressor Switch (Air Conditioning)   Inactive 0V
Telltale (Check Light)   Off 12V
Fuel Pump Relay   Active 0V
Spark Angle before TDC (Top Dead Centre)   4 °CA
Ignition Coil Cyl. 1+4 (Cylinder)   Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 2+5   Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 3+6 (Cylinder)   Load
Knock Signal   Inactive
Knock Retard   0 °CA
Secondary Air Pump Relay   Inactive 12V
EGR Valve (Exhaust-Gas Recirculation)   Inactive
EGR Position Feedback (Exhaust Gas Recirculation)   0.68 V
Fuel Tank Ventilation Valve   0%
O2 Sensor 1   702 mV
O2 Sensor 2   537 mV
O2 Sensor Loop 1   Closed
O2 Sensor Loop 2   Closed
Air/Fuel Ratio 1   Lean
Air/Fuel Ratio 2   Rich
O2-Loop 1 Integrator   140 Steps
O2-Loop 2 Integrator   123
O2-Loop 1 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map)   198 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map)   0 Steps
O2-Loop 1 BLM Partial Load (Block Learn Map)   116 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Partial Load(Block Learn Map)   122 Steps
Hall Sensor   Active
Engine Speed Pulse   Active
Engine Speed   612 RPM
Idle Air Control   155 Steps
IAC Integrator (Idle Air Control)   126 Steps
IAC Adaptation Slope (Idle Air Control)   148 Steps
IAC Block Learn (Idle Air Control)   124 Steps
Desired Idle Air   8 kg/h
Actual Value Idle Air   8 kg/h
Desired Engine Idle Speed   600 RPM
Injection Pulse   2.9 ms
Engine Load Signal   0.9 ms
TPS Load Signal (Throttle Position Sensor)   0%
Vehicle Speed Pulse   Not Received 12V
Vehicle Speed   0 km/h
Intake Manifold Valve 1   Inactive 12V
Intake Manifold Valve 2   Inactive 12V
Torque Control   Inactive
A/C Cutoff Relay (Air Conditioning)   Inactive 12V
Diagnostic Request   Inactive 5V

Assuming your device isn't lying (Ljays showing similar - so immediately suspicious of reader), you need to ask why drivers back is naturally lean and passenger bank is naturally too rich (and seeing as hit the end stop, probably still is).

I am suspicious of the reader though

[TheBoy]

What happens if you reset trims? In my experience, Motronnic 2.8.x doesn't recover itself if a trim hits the end stop.

[Jimbob]

Ill reset em at the meet next week

[Jimbob]

forgot to say well done on the fix, and hopefully sorted now

[Debs.]

Ill reset em at the meet next week

  Thankyou!

[Debs.]

O2-Loop 1 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map)   198 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map)   0 Steps

What happens if you reset trims? In my experience, Motronnic 2.8.x doesn't recover itself if a trim hits the end stop.

Ok....from a cold start this a.m: at the first roundabout, the RPM started to 'flick' (rapidly, well above, then back down to idle) and the engine surged noticeably, but adding any amount of accelerator and the surging went away and 'driveability' seemed 100% .....mercifully, there`s been no actual stalling approaching/during idle today.
When the engine became fully warm (a couple of miles into the journey), the 'bouncing' idling RPM went away!?!?

Please pardon my complete lack of understanding of 'fuel trim'; is the unbalanced nature of the live-data figures (highlighted) likely to cause idle surging (when cold)?

[TheBoy]

O2-Loop 1 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map)   198 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map)   0 Steps

What happens if you reset trims? In my experience, Motronnic 2.8.x doesn't recover itself if a trim hits the end stop.

Ok....from a cold start this a.m: at the first roundabout, the RPM started to 'flick' (rapidly, well above, then back down to idle) and the engine surged noticeably, but adding any amount of accelerator and the surging went away and 'driveability' seemed 100% .....mercifully, there`s been no actual stalling approaching/during idle today.
When the engine became fully warm (a couple of miles into the journey), the 'bouncing' idling RPM went away!?!?

Please pardon my complete lack of understanding of 'fuel trim'; is the unbalanced nature of the live-data figures (highlighted) likely to cause idle surging (when cold)?

Trim is the amount of variation from 'normal' that the ECU applies based on feedback from precat lamdas.  Being a twin bank engine, 2 seperate trim settings.

On the Motronic, trim settings are 0 to 255, with 'normal' being 127.

If a trim is higher than 127, its detected that bank is lean, and is richening up. Lower, its rich, so leaning off.


The Motronic 2.8.x has a pair of trim settings per bank, one of these is purely for idle, and its these that are screwy on yours.


Hope that helps with your fault finding.  Probably first thing is to reset them, and watch how they go.  Up to 15 either side of normal is OKish, if no symptoms.