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Author Topic: Credit where its due (politics)  (Read 4515 times)

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Dishevelled Den

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Re: Credit where its due (politics)
« Reply #45 on: 11 December 2011, 15:50:24 »

High earners in any industry tend to enjoy their wealth, so yes I'd say that the fruit from the tree of plenty does fall far and wide.  Take footballers for example who like to have ostentatious displays of their treasure.... They'll drive flash cars, admittedly from Germany or Italy, providing jobs nonetheless in sales and servicing, they'll buy a palace from another footballer, and gut and refit it because the Mrs dosn't like the colour of the marble and yes the new marble will be Italian of course, but the guys fitting it will be from Cheshire or Surrey......

Lucky they're not all like me, because if I was a high earner I'd stay in my little terraced house counting my money!! Bah!!  :)

Yes it's nice for those trades to have such work Tigg - but in relation to the country as a whole, any distribution of wealth from such a narrow source can never hope to add anything of a substantial nature to the equation - I suppose that's why a not inconsiderable swathe of the country seldom gets a sniff of such work from those people who have substantial disposable income.

I would think we need to have people in regular dependable employment as there are only so many marble clad dwellings or high-end vehicles around to provide a constancy of employment to those who install them or service them.  There's nothing wrong with exploiting such a market but what I would like to see is a broader based economy in place to take up the lion’s share of employment opportunity.

I don't think that anyone is disagreeing with you here Den about Britains financial industry and the over reliance on it.  However we find ourselves in a juxtaposition whereby the very industry through deregulation, has brought the economy to it's knees, but we still need that very industry to be successful to help drag ourselves out of the mire.   ::)

As I've pointed out, The City needs to be competitive on the global scene not just in Europe, and in my view Merkozy were aiming to blunt that competitiveness, to the advange of Frankfurt and Paris's Banks.....  >:(

One must remember that the blame for the economy being on its knees (and this applies even more so to other countries in the EZ) cannot just be placed on banking practices, but rather on governments spending too much. We currently have a sovereign debt crisis, not a mortgage crisis.  ;)


Quote
We currently have a sovereign debt crisis

For the benefit of this poor old ex-copper, how did that happen?
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cleggy

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Re: Credit where its due (politics)
« Reply #46 on: 11 December 2011, 15:58:21 »

The bottom line without all the 'dangle berries' is that We would be better off as an individual entity.

Why should the U.K pander to the Fuhrer and her Vichey Poodle?

We can not only survive but excel without the constraints and drain that the EU put on our economy. :y

MARGARET would not have had any of it, and who the F*** is Nick? ( should change is surname!) :y
« Last Edit: 11 December 2011, 16:00:05 by Cleggy »
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Dishevelled Den

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Re: Credit where its due (politics)
« Reply #47 on: 11 December 2011, 16:19:01 »



I don't think that anyone is disagreeing with you here Den about Britains financial industry and the over reliance on it.  However we find ourselves in a juxtaposition whereby the very industry through deregulation, has brought the economy to it's knees, but we still need that very industry to be successful to help drag ourselves out of the mire.   ::)

As I've pointed out, The City needs to be competitive on the global scene not just in Europe, and in my view Merkozy were aiming to blunt that competitiveness, to the advange of Frankfurt and Paris's Banks.....  >:(


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I don't think that anyone is disagreeing with you here Den


That's very sweet of you to say so Tigg. :-* :-* ;D


Yes, I can happily agree that we need that sector to be successful - what's the point in doing business any other way - I only hope that there's not too much reliance placed on it as there's a very substantial bill to settle for the years of risk taking and excess.

I’m just wondering on the perceived success or otherwise of the Square Mile and satellites, can figures be provided (not necessarily by you) to show just what contribution is forthcoming to the Treasury from those groups?
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Sir Tigger KC

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Re: Credit where its due (politics)
« Reply #48 on: 11 December 2011, 20:01:04 »



I don't think that anyone is disagreeing with you here Den about Britains financial industry and the over reliance on it.  However we find ourselves in a juxtaposition whereby the very industry through deregulation, has brought the economy to it's knees, but we still need that very industry to be successful to help drag ourselves out of the mire.   ::)

As I've pointed out, The City needs to be competitive on the global scene not just in Europe, and in my view Merkozy were aiming to blunt that competitiveness, to the advange of Frankfurt and Paris's Banks.....  >:(


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I don't think that anyone is disagreeing with you here Den


That's very sweet of you to say so Tigg. :-* :-* ;D


Yes, I can happily agree that we need that sector to be successful - what's the point in doing business any other way - I only hope that there's not too much reliance placed on it as there's a very substantial bill to settle for the years of risk taking and excess.

I’m just wondering on the perceived success or otherwise of the Square Mile and satellites, can figures be provided (not necessarily by you) to show just what contribution is forthcoming to the Treasury from those groups?

Over to you Nickbat!!  ;) :y

I saw today that Nick Clegg has changed his position from supporting Cameron's use of the veto, to deciding that it is bad for Britain....  ::)
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RIP Paul 'Luvvie' Lovejoy

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Nickbat

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Re: Credit where its due (politics)
« Reply #49 on: 11 December 2011, 20:42:22 »

AS at September 2011, financial and professional services generate nearly 2 million jobs; one pound in seven of GDP; and a £40bn trade surplus.

http://www.thecityuk.com/assets/Uploads/Key-Facts-September-2011.pdf

 :y
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Dishevelled Den

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Re: Credit where its due (politics)
« Reply #50 on: 11 December 2011, 20:51:11 »

Thank you Nick. :-*
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Nickbat

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Re: Credit where its due (politics)
« Reply #51 on: 11 December 2011, 20:54:47 »

Mon plaisir, monsieur Den! :-*
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Sir Tigger KC

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Re: Credit where its due (politics)
« Reply #52 on: 11 December 2011, 21:49:51 »

That's interesting NB Thanks!  :y  No wonder Merkozy are so keen to tax it!!  :o
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RIP Paul 'Luvvie' Lovejoy

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Nickbat

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Re: Credit where its due (politics)
« Reply #53 on: 11 December 2011, 23:22:53 »

High earners in any industry tend to enjoy their wealth, so yes I'd say that the fruit from the tree of plenty does fall far and wide.  Take footballers for example who like to have ostentatious displays of their treasure.... They'll drive flash cars, admittedly from Germany or Italy, providing jobs nonetheless in sales and servicing, they'll buy a palace from another footballer, and gut and refit it because the Mrs dosn't like the colour of the marble and yes the new marble will be Italian of course, but the guys fitting it will be from Cheshire or Surrey......

Lucky they're not all like me, because if I was a high earner I'd stay in my little terraced house counting my money!! Bah!!  :)

Yes it's nice for those trades to have such work Tigg - but in relation to the country as a whole, any distribution of wealth from such a narrow source can never hope to add anything of a substantial nature to the equation - I suppose that's why a not inconsiderable swathe of the country seldom gets a sniff of such work from those people who have substantial disposable income.

I would think we need to have people in regular dependable employment as there are only so many marble clad dwellings or high-end vehicles around to provide a constancy of employment to those who install them or service them.  There's nothing wrong with exploiting such a market but what I would like to see is a broader based economy in place to take up the lion’s share of employment opportunity.

I don't think that anyone is disagreeing with you here Den about Britains financial industry and the over reliance on it.  However we find ourselves in a juxtaposition whereby the very industry through deregulation, has brought the economy to it's knees, but we still need that very industry to be successful to help drag ourselves out of the mire.   ::)

As I've pointed out, The City needs to be competitive on the global scene not just in Europe, and in my view Merkozy were aiming to blunt that competitiveness, to the advange of Frankfurt and Paris's Banks.....  >:(

One must remember that the blame for the economy being on its knees (and this applies even more so to other countries in the EZ) cannot just be placed on banking practices, but rather on governments spending too much. We currently have a sovereign debt crisis, not a mortgage crisis.  ;)


Quote
We currently have a sovereign debt crisis

For the benefit of this poor old ex-copper, how did that happen?

Sorry, Den, I missed this post earlier.

Basically, sovereign debt refers to the national budgets. Most nations these days have a deficit where income (largely, taxes) fails to meet public expenditure. Nations ("sovereigns") routinely issue bonds (known as Treasury gilts in the UK) to cover these deficits. Bonds are essentially IOUs, providing interest returns or yields if you buy them. The credit rating agencies, such as Moodys and S&P rate debt according to the likelihood of the bonds being repaid when they mature. For years, the European countries have enjoyed AAA ratings, meaning their debt is as safe as houses. Recently, though, the prospects for many EU countries has been downgraded, meaning that the chances of default are higher. To counteract this, the bonds that the countries need to issue to balance their books have carried ever-greater interest rates to attract buyers.

The problem, though, is that this sovereign debt has increased and many economies (especially the PIIGS, Portugal Italy, Irleand, Greece and Spain) are becoming so laden with debt, that no-one wants to lend them money - via bond purchase. Hence, the crisis goes on and they get downgraded further, with the possibility of some countries becoming so mired in debt they effectively go bankrupt.

Hope that's clearer!  :y 
« Last Edit: 11 December 2011, 23:25:32 by Nickbat »
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Cliffo B

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Re: Credit where its due (politics)
« Reply #54 on: 12 December 2011, 02:26:42 »

Boy oh Boy if only I could comment on the Germans and French but this psuedo European democracy prevents me
My opinions were formed in the immediate post war years so I'm biased
Lost a lot of my family elders to both world wars
As the years have rolled on a thought keeps comeing into my mind when some situations/events happen
As happened when our prime minister was treated with such arrogant disrespect by two world leaders
Who now each in my opinion qualify for the title of "TipTop Spivs"
David now commands my utter respect far beyond my previous opinions of him as a family loveing Englishman
Now back to that thought that has bedevilled myself through the years
Way back the Japanese Emporer stood up and appologised to the whole world for their part in the 2nd world war
A brave and honourable thing to do from the leader of a culture that has the principals of honour and loss of face instilled into their culture.
Now how about Germany?
Who in their ambitions for world/European domination tried it on twice
In my opinion arrogance in the extreme
Fat chance of an appology
To the contrary I think the dominant instinct could still be present in their culture
And is manifesting itself in economic terms as opposed to military
The recent treatment of our prime minister is almost in parallel to the  2nd world war 
Germany overan the French then set about the British with some French assistance
Our Air Force and yes I'll say it the true bulldog Churchill in the end stuck 2 fingers up.
Also I think it's possible that Obama the illustrious American president played no small part in the Tip Top Spivs arrogant behaviour
I understand he ordered the removal of a bust of Churchill from the White House
Also seem to remember a lot of cosying up to the French shortly after he was elected
Nothing wrong with that but when accompanied with an attitude to our politicians both past and present I do wonder
Never mind it's possible he'll get his cum uppance in the American elections
I remember as a 10 yr old visiting with my maternal grand parents one of my grandads brothers at Harrogate
He was bedridden by the ravages and lung damage of mustard gas in the trenches
He signalled me over to his bedside and with difficulty I managed to grasp what he told me
One of the things i've never forgot was "Trust a German but never a Frenchman"
Never forgot uncle Tommy he passed on a few day's later
 
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Dishevelled Den

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Re: Credit where its due (politics)
« Reply #55 on: 12 December 2011, 09:06:04 »


Sorry, Den, I missed this post earlier.

Basically, sovereign debt refers to the national budgets. Most nations these days have a deficit where income (largely, taxes) fails to meet public expenditure. Nations ("sovereigns") routinely issue bonds (known as Treasury gilts in the UK) to cover these deficits. Bonds are essentially IOUs, providing interest returns or yields if you buy them. The credit rating agencies, such as Moodys and S&P rate debt according to the likelihood of the bonds being repaid when they mature. For years, the European countries have enjoyed AAA ratings, meaning their debt is as safe as houses. Recently, though, the prospects for many EU countries has been downgraded, meaning that the chances of default are higher. To counteract this, the bonds that the countries need to issue to balance their books have carried ever-greater interest rates to attract buyers.

The problem, though, is that this sovereign debt has increased and many economies (especially the PIIGS, Portugal Italy, Irleand, Greece and Spain) are becoming so laden with debt, that no-one wants to lend them money - via bond purchase. Hence, the crisis goes on and they get downgraded further, with the possibility of some countries becoming so mired in debt they effectively go bankrupt.

Hope that's clearer!  :y


Thanks Nick - I'm trying to get a basic understanding of not only this but of the other prime elements which add to the financial sector's contribution to the balance sheet of the country.

It's obviously a complicated issue (for me at least) but I think it necessary to get an overall feeling for the realities of how we conduct business at this level before condemning too much - given my natural inclination of being distrustful of most things financial.

I suppose it's the old copper in me (no bawdy thoughts from anyone reading this, thank you - you know who you are) needing to look at all the evidence before coming to a conclusion as there's no point in adopting a position that satisfies one's viewpoint if the reality renders it to be invalid.
« Last Edit: 12 December 2011, 09:07:44 by Desperate Den »
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