Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Varche on 05 April 2017, 22:08:28
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Been away from media all day ( IKEA problems).
Watched the news this morning and had a bad feeling about Syria. So we in the West are jumping up and down rightly condemning the perpetrator of the gas attack. Where were we on previous occasions?
I couldnt help feeling the groundwork is being laid to now go in and remove Assad and his regime. Boots on the ground?
What do you think?
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Trump has made a few of the right noises but lets see if he is willing to go any further. Personally I doubt it.
I hope to be proved wrong.
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Been away from media all day ( IKEA problems).
Watched the news this morning and had a bad feeling about Syria. So we in the West are jumping up and down rightly condemning the perpetrator of the gas attack. Where were we on previous occasions?
I couldnt help feeling the groundwork is being laid to now go in and remove Assad and his regime. Boots on the ground?
What do you think?
Hmmm, depends on whether they want to tangle with Russia as well. I don't think so. Attempting to remove Assad could well end up with a very major conflict, even without the Russians. We know how determined and ruthless he can be.
"Arab Spring" - so all very democratic and nice and freedom for the people etc. How many countries are actually better off today ?
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I think trump will go to war with someone. It's what America does best and it's good for the huge business that is the American war machine.
Will it be Syria? Not sure about that, as said there are some major players on both sides, probably a softer target will present itself in due course.
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US is setup to fight two wars at the same time, so confronting China / North Korea which is one and a bit is not a problem, Putin will approve, but Syria as a Russian satellite is totally different and he will be told and will behave. #Kompromat ::) ::) ::)
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Let's not's get dragged into another middle east war, look what the outcome was after the last one.
Alfie.
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That's the problem with the Middle east. Every time the West tries to make a terrible situation better, we make it a whole lot worse.
It seems to be an impossible situation. :(
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That's the problem with the Middle east. Every time the West tries to make a terrible situation better, we make it a whole lot worse.
It seems to be an impossible situation. :(
Yep, exactly. It's a different world to the west, and, as a result, we can't comprehend how to do anything but stir things up there. Damned if we do...
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I think trump will go to war with someone. It's what America does best and it's good for the huge business that is the American war machine.
Will it be Syria? Not sure about that, as said there are some major players on both sides, probably a softer target will present itself in due course.
Yes.....I well remember when Ronald 'insane' Reagan and the US of A kicked the shit out of mighty Grenada in 1983.
Generally, The US tends to get its 'lardy American butt' kicked when it comes to wars. Vietnam had the yanks running away with their tails between their legs. I want my mommy being their last words. :)
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That's the problem with the Middle east. Every time the West tries to make a terrible situation better, we make it a whole lot worse.
It seems to be an impossible situation. :(
Yes it is, and it has all the ingredients of causing a major world conflict. We should never appease evil, but we should fully understand what is at stake if "we" go in with boots on the ground. The USA will do what they want to do under Trump, but any action should be under the flag of the UN. That is what the UN is meant to be for, although really it is a toothless organisation, as international law is toothless, without the support of the US.
But it is clear that action must be taken against any country committing war crimes, so doing nothing should not be an option. Once more it will come down to us all taking the lead from the US and going in or not with them as I cannot see any credible Arab alternative; they just have not got the will or hardware, with those like Saudi Arabia who maybe could make a difference tied up with existing war demands on their own military.
So, here we go again, the World is being tested by a rogue state, but one that is led by someone who is not after regional / world domination, so do we want to risk a conflict with Russia over this? So, time for Trump to talk to Putin and combine to rid the World of Assad, solving a "local" problem without making this bigger than it has to be. This is not Czechoslovakia of 1938 or Poland of 1939, so we must not over react.
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The real problem is the fact that the UN is not fit for purpose. If it was, we wouldn't have got where we are with this and many other conflicts.
It has become a gravy train where people can command a lot of money in salaries and expenses to talk, and talk and talk and then do absolutely nothing.
It has become completely pointless and should be abolished.
Personally, I think Trump and his advisors haven't got a clue what to do, so will probably do nothing much. I doubt he wil want to risk a conflict with the Russians.
So far, his presidency has been a hell of a lot of talk about many different things, but he hasn't actually done anything at all, which is pretty similar to the previous eight years.
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That's the problem with the Middle east. Every time the West tries to make a terrible situation better, we make it a whole lot worse.
It seems to be an impossible situation. :(
What if there wasn't a Middle East any more? ::)
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That's the problem with the Middle east. Every time the West tries to make a terrible situation better, we make it a whole lot worse.
It seems to be an impossible situation. :(
What if there wasn't a Middle East any more? ::)
Oil ? ???
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That's the problem with the Middle east. Every time the West tries to make a terrible situation better, we make it a whole lot worse.
It seems to be an impossible situation. :(
What if there wasn't a Middle East any more? ::)
Oil ? ???
Hm, would the oil be radioactive after the robot drilling rigs had extracted it, I wonder? I mean, er.. hypothetically.
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That's the problem with the Middle east. Every time the West tries to make a terrible situation better, we make it a whole lot worse.
It seems to be an impossible situation. :(
What if there wasn't a Middle East any more? ::)
Oil ? ???
Hm, would the oil be radioactive after the robot drilling rigs had extracted it, I wonder? I mean, er.. hypothetically.
Probably last longer ::)
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That's the problem with the Middle east. Every time the West tries to make a terrible situation better, we make it a whole lot worse.
It seems to be an impossible situation. :(
What if there wasn't a Middle East any more? ::)
Imagine there is no country. It isn't hard to do. Nothing to live or die for. :)
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Which equates to not caring enough about anything or anyone to die for them.
John Lennon was a moronic hypocrite, with an outlook on political matters which would get torn apart in the average 6th form debating society. :)
There seems to be some evidence that while has making records about peace and stopping war, he was sending funds to the IRA.
Apparently his working class credibility depended on it.
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Which equates to not caring enough about anything or anyone to die for them.
John Lennon was a moronic hypocrite, with an outlook on political matters which would get torn apart in the average 6th form debating society. :)
There seems to be some evidence that while has making records about peace and stopping war, he was sending funds to the IRA.
Apparently his working class credibility depended on it.
He was a scouser so STMO must like him. All scousers like all other scousers. I think. ;)
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Tonight it sounds as though the American war drums are about to be sounded with the Whitehouse talking with the Pentagon about taking action against Assad. Trump has changed his mind and now favours action being taken.
Observers are talking about military action being "imminent" and perhaps "overnight".
Here we go again.
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I think the dcision was taken and allies briefed 36 hours ago. The diplomatic claptrap is just a cover for the prep going on behind the scenes.
Like others have said on here, tis a dangerous line. Maybe Putin is onside in return for loosening sanctions as yet unnanounced.
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Shoes
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Churchill once famously said that 'jaw jaw was always preferable to war war'.......and he was right.
However, Assad became emboldened when Obama didn't respond militarily when chemical weapons were used in 2013.
If significant military force is used it is fair to say the relationship between Putin and Trump will become dangerously fragile. :-\
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Yep Obama bottled it and was proved to be bluffing. He has a lot to answer for. An utterly useless excuse for a president.
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Maybe. It could be the dividing lines have been drawn up. Part for assad (pro Russia incuding naval facilities) part for Kurds and part for the rest have already been drawn.
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Assad is continually pushing the boundaries on just how far he can go on completely and totally eliminating any remnant of the rebels. Support from Russia has emboldened him to take ever more radical steps to achieve his aim. Russia is wavering in it's support in the face of such international criticism on the use of chemical agents. Assad may waver but his underlying objective will remain the same until he feels that his position is 100% secure.
So, we all think " poor rebels" and indeed most of the victims are innocent. However, is there a fundamentalist movement behind the rebels ? I don't know the answers to these things, I wish I did.
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That is part of the problem. Various factions being armed or funded by interested parties.
One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist.
Whenthe media reports Satanic State being driven out of Mosul. Whete are they driven to?
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Tonight it sounds as though the American war drums are about to be sounded with the Whitehouse talking with the Pentagon about taking action against Assad. Trump has changed his mind and now favours action being taken.
Observers are talking about military action being "imminent" and perhaps "overnight".
Here we go again.
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Overnight. Missile launch. Russians informed in advance of the attack it seems, good move as I think that even they are getting peed off with Assad themselves.
But just where do things go from here ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39523654
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As the Russians were informed before the event, I guess it was only material damage caused. That is unfortunate, as I would have liked to have seen at least some of the personnel involved in the chemical bombing get their comeuppance.
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OK, hands up everyone who said "Trump won't do anything because he is Putin's puppet". Hey, look, 59 Tomahawk missiles.
Though I'm sure you can rationalise that because he warned the Russians - although that would be called common courtesy if they're not the people you're trying to bomb. I mean, assuming you believe it was Assad gassing people, not Putin by proxy.
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Shoes
Clearly the wrong thread :-[
1 Tomahawk missile is an effective statement, 59 of them simply reinforces that statement 58 times...
How involved Putin was in the chemical blast should be able to be measured by his reaction today.
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Shoes
Clearly the wrong thread :-[
And here was me thinking it was one of your typically pithy ripostes :P.
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Shoes
Clearly the wrong thread :-[
And here was me thinking it was one of your typically pithy ripostes :P.
I also thought he was being sarcastic! ;D ;D ;D ;D It certainly got me using the brain matter to work out how shoes related to Syria; I came up with something about Muslims not wearing shoes in their Mosques! ;D ;D ;D ;)
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It's a massive insult to throw your shoe at someone in the Middle East! ;)
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So Trump has shown how he will press the button when required. The question is does he know what to do next, after he has lit the touch paper and sent the diplomats running for a solution? :D :D
It is easy to start a war, hard to stop. But at least he has shown a steely determination to be a strong President. He is not for pushing over, so a match for Putin :y
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It's a massive insult to throw your shoe at someone in the Middle East! ;)
That's true. Didn't think of that one! ;D ;D ;D :y
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It's a massive insult to throw your shoe at someone in the Middle East! ;)
That's true. Didn't think of that one! ;D ;D ;D :y
So all those cruise missiles at vast expense, and they could have just chucked a few pairs of crocs at them? ;)
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It's a massive insult to throw your shoe at someone in the Middle East! ;)
It would piss me off a bit if someone did it to me here ::) ;)
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;D it was meant to follow snakeskin on the word discombobulation thread ::)
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I simply assumed Al had been at the 'Skullcrusher special brew' again. :)
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It's a massive insult to throw your shoe at someone in the Middle East! ;)
It would piss me off a bit if someone did it to me here ::) ;)
It would make me PMSL if it was raining. ;D
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Putin today called it an 'illegal act of aggression' and the US was also branded 'a partner of ISIS' by al-Assad's spokesman
Yup, Putin is loving Trump.
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Russia and America are due a bust up. If they do it in Syria, it would be very bad......for the Syrians, but not so bad for us. :)
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Putin today called it an 'illegal act of aggression' and the US was also branded 'a partner of ISIS' by al-Assad's spokesman
Yup, Putin is loving Trump.
I have to say that they are not jumping up and down as much as I thought they would, although they have undertaken to bolster Syrian air defences. I'm just not sure that Russia really wants a major confrontation in Syria, I don't mean just in military terms, but in general. Yes side with Assad, but not too much ? It's just not worth it, even if the rebels were out of the way there would be so many other issues, ISIL, Kurds, Israel and who knows what else. Plus of course there would be Assad himself to deal with.
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Well, the Israelis seem happy enough...
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Trump is no longer the isolationist he was preaching during his campaign.
Reality has caught up with him. If you are the superpower, that what happens. Russia must know they have not got the capability to do anything about it as, from what I understand, Putin has not got the funds for a major fight. ;)
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Both the Russians and the Americans are very good at hitting targets that they know can't hit back. Flying over rebel-held Syrian cities and dropping bombs on them with impunity must have been a hoot for the Russian pilots.
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Both the Russians and the Americans are very good at hitting targets that they know can't hit back. Flying over rebel-held Syrian cities and dropping bombs on them with impunity must have been a hoot for the Russian pilots.
I doubt the Communist Reporting Society BBC will be asking that question on the news anytime soon ::)
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Which equates to not caring enough about anything or anyone to die for them.
John Lennon was a moronic hypocrite, with an outlook on political matters which would get torn apart in the average 6th form debating society. :)
There seems to be some evidence that while has making records about peace and stopping war, he was sending funds to the IRA.
Apparently his working class credibility depended on it.
He was a scouser so STMO must like him. All scousers like all other scousers. I think. ;)
As a Scouser myself, I F**kING hate the Beatles. And Most Scousers probably do too. It seems the only culture we've got is the Yellow submarine.
Where was the first place that The Beatles headed when they became famous? I think it was Ringo Star airport (sic)
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So Mr lefty handwringing nutter Corbyn has declined support for the missile attack saying that there should have been a UN resolution first to approve it. I sometimes wonder if this guy can even decide which hand to wipe his arse with !
Let's have a big multinational discussion about launching a "surprise" attack. It's ok, that won't warn them and give them time to prepare etc, of course not. Idiot
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So Mr lefty handwringing nutter Corbyn has declined support for the missile attack saying that there should have been a UN resolution first to approve it. I sometimes wonder if this guy can even decide which hand to wipe his arse with !
Let's have a big multinational discussion about launching a "surprise" attack. It's ok, that won't warn them and give them time to prepare etc, of course not. Idiot
That is why he must never become the Prime Minister, if by some ironic miracle he ever could! We know he couldn't even decide to push the button if the UK was threatened.
The sooner Labour loose him the better :y
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So Mr lefty handwringing nutter Corbyn has declined support for the missile attack saying that there should have been a UN resolution first to approve it. I sometimes wonder if this guy can even decide which hand to wipe his arse with !
Let's have a big multinational discussion about launching a "surprise" attack. It's ok, that won't warn them and give them time to prepare etc, of course not. Idiot
Which Russia definitely and China probably would have vetoed. ::)
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So Mr lefty handwringing nutter Corbyn has declined support for the missile attack saying that there should have been a UN resolution first to approve it. I sometimes wonder if this guy can even decide which hand to wipe his arse with !
Let's have a big multinational discussion about launching a "surprise" attack. It's ok, that won't warn them and give them time to prepare etc, of course not. Idiot
One can only presume that he doesn't ::)
Way back at the start of all this, our very own Monsieur Guffer did explain that the only options being tabled were Shit Sandwiches and the only choice was which bread you wanted your Shit spread on.
A few years down the road, and the only change is that we're running out of bread. All in all, it's a shitty situatiion that isn't going to end well how ever the die roll.
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Pictures following the attack shows debris, but major damage aircraft pens, or aircraft themselves, I think not.
Is that all 59 missle scan do? WWII Lancasters could do far more damage with earthquake bombs, especially the biggest, the 22,000lb Grand Slam. Those aircraft pens and the aircraft inside would have been obliterated. :D ;)
It has been said tonight that as Russian hardware shared this airfield they were warned in advance of the attack. Eh, what!! :o :o :o
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So Mr lefty handwringing nutter Corbyn has declined support for the missile attack saying that there should have been a UN resolution first to approve it. I sometimes wonder if this guy can even decide which hand to wipe his arse with !
Let's have a big multinational discussion about launching a "surprise" attack. It's ok, that won't warn them and give them time to prepare etc, of course not. Idiot
That is why he must never become the Prime Minister, if by some ironic miracle he ever could! We know he couldn't even decide to push the button if the UK was threatened.
The longer Labour keep him the better :y
Quite agree. :y :)
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Pictures following the attack shows debris, but major damage aircraft pens, or aircraft themselves, I think not.
Is that all 59 missle scan do? WWII Lancasters could do far more damage with earthquake bombs, especially the biggest, the 22,000lb Grand Slam. Those aircraft pens and the aircraft inside would have been obliterated. :D ;)
It has been said tonight that as Russian hardware shared this airfield they were warned in advance of the attack. Eh, what!! :o :o :o
.......and reports tonight suggest Syrian warplanes have taken off from that airfield.
Oh yes, wasn't a lot of damage done.......not! :(
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How to spend $59,000,000 in a very short time! :o ::)
I didn't type spend ::) , but meant to say How to ejaculate $59,000,000 in a very short time! ;D
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Pictures following the attack shows debris, but major damage aircraft pens, or aircraft themselves, I think not.
Is that all 59 missle scan do? WWII Lancasters could do far more damage with earthquake bombs, especially the biggest, the 22,000lb Grand Slam. Those aircraft pens and the aircraft inside would have been obliterated. :D ;)
It has been said tonight that as Russian hardware shared this airfield they were warned in advance of the attack. Eh, what!! :o :o :o
Well yes I agree, but a WWII bomber raid was pretty dangerous for the crew, plus the actual bombing was a bit haphazard with a lot of "collateral damage", drop a pile of stuff and hope some of it hits the target. Modern missiles are much more precise (so they say) with GPS guidance etc, but probably with a smaller payload, unless of course . . . . . it's nuclear :o
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How to spend $59,000,000 in a very short time! :o ::)
I didn't type spend ::) , but meant to say How to ejaculate $59,000,000 in a very short time! ;D
Did you know that in the original book by Conan Doyle, Doctor Watson ejaculated twice as often as Holmes.
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How to spend $59,000,000 in a very short time! :o ::)
I didn't type spend ::) , but meant to say How to ejaculate $59,000,000 in a very short time! ;D
Did you know that in the original book by Conan Doyle, Doctor Watson ejaculated twice as often as Holmes.
An apple a day and all that... :D
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How to spend $59,000,000 in a very short time! :o ::)
I didn't type spend ::) , but meant to say How to ejaculate $59,000,000 in a very short time! ;D
Did you know that in the original book by Conan Doyle, Doctor Watson ejaculated twice as often as Holmes.
An apple a day and all that... :D
At one point Watson ejaculated from an upstairs window.
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Meanwhile, in Damascus... :-\
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Pictures following the attack shows debris, but major damage aircraft pens, or aircraft themselves, I think not.
Is that all 59 missle scan do? WWII Lancasters could do far more damage with earthquake bombs, especially the biggest, the 22,000lb Grand Slam. Those aircraft pens and the aircraft inside would have been obliterated. :D ;)
It has been said tonight that as Russian hardware shared this airfield they were warned in advance of the attack. Eh, what!! :o :o :o
Well yes I agree, but a WWII bomber raid was pretty dangerou,s for the crew, plus the actual bombing was a bit haphazard with a lot of "collateral damage", drop a pile of stuff and hope some of it hits the target. Modern missiles are much more precise (so they say) with GPS guidance etc, but probably with a smaller payload, unless of course . . . . . it's nuclear :o
In fact the success rate for the dropping of both the Tallboy and Grand Slam earthquake bombs was very high. The main V1 and V2 production facilities, various U-boat pens, the battleship Tirpitz, and the main railway tunnel on the line to Normandy were amongst targets successfully hit with devastating results. One reason for this was the famous 617 squadron was involved, and secondly they were by then using a new precision bomb sight.
Using very expensive missiles may be the modern way, but looking at the pictures released I know the earthquake bombs of Barnes Wallace would have decimated the targets. The aircraft pens with aircraft still in them post attack should not be still there. A 21st century delivery system used with the bombs in question would produce far better results.
The Tirpitiz never sailed again; no more V1 or V2's were produced; the U-boats never used the pens again, and no panzer loaded trains ever again went to Normandy via the tunnel. Compare that to the observation that Syrian aircraft have again taken off from that airfield ;)
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Lying requires consistency and IME the Russians are very, very, bad at this. They are much, much better at telling a good story, just not good enough under intense scrutiny and actual evidence. :o :o :o Which is why their/Assad not damaged here, anti-US narrative isn't going so well, apart from the British Buggering Corporation.
Human nature with propaganda needs to be taken into account and the Vulcan attack on Port Stanley is a very good lesson on this. The bravo UK on a very limited and not very successful attack has to be weighted against the physiological impact on the Argentinians where we showed we could attack with 'heavier' forces with impunity, but their are much better examples of this:
The Royal Navy for hundreds of years have accepted losses in the line of battle. The battle of Jutland was about the German Grand fleet breaking the British blockade of Germany, if they failed they would lose WWI. The UK lost more ships mainly through the loss of Battle cruisers, which were over-gunned cruisers, with inadequate armour, which when penetrated with 14-15" shells they penetrated the magazine with fatal results (The same happened to HMS Hood in WWII against the Bismark). Despite more losses Admiral Jellicoe kept pressing and only broke off the engagement when he was worried it was a trap to lure the UK fleet, so they could be attacked by U-boats. The victory was that the German Grand Fleet never challenged the Royal Navy again on the high seas and Germany lost WWI. :y :y
Now lets fast forward to 1982. General Belgrano was 'allegedly' sailing to intercept and a attack the UK carriers but HMS Conqueror, 'quietly' sorted out the error of her ways with a couple of Mk42's. The outcome was that the Argie navy never left port again to challenge the Royal Navy. :y :y
Trump, quite IMO has set down a marker (and made the world a safer place) to show that challenging US hegemony and red lines has consequences in a way that Obama disasterously failed to do and made the world a much more dangerous place, where every tyrant and misfit dictator were prepared to try it 'on' and see what they could get away with. They now know, it is much less than before. :y :y
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Lying requires consistency and IME the Russians are very, very, bad at this. They are much, much better at telling a good story, just not good enough under intense scrutiny and actual evidence. :o :o :o Which is why their/Assad not damaged here, anti-US narrative isn't going so well, apart from the British Buggering Corporation.
Human nature with propaganda needs to be taken into account and the Vulcan attack on Port Stanley is a very good lesson on this. The bravo UK on a very limited and not very successful attack has to be weighted against the physiological impact on the Argentinians where we showed we could attack with 'heavier' forces with impunity, but their are much better examples of this:
The Royal Navy for hundreds of years have accepted losses in the line of battle. The battle of Jutland was about the German Grand fleet breaking the British blockade of Germany, if they failed they would lose WWI. The UK lost more ships mainly through the loss of Battle cruisers, which were over-gunned cruisers, with inadequate armour, which when penetrated with 14-15" shells they penetrated the magazine with fatal results (The same happened to HMS Hood in WWII against the Bismark). Despite more losses Admiral Jellicoe kept pressing and only broke off the engagement when he was worried it was a trap to lure the UK fleet, so they could be attacked by U-boats. The victory was that the German Grand Fleet never challenged the Royal Navy again on the high seas and Germany lost WWI. :y :y
Now lets fast forward to 1982. General Belgrano was 'allegedly' sailing to intercept and a attack the UK carriers but HMS Conqueror, 'quietly' sorted out the error of her ways with a couple of Mk42's. The outcome was that the Argie navy never left port again to challenge the Royal Navy. :y :y
Trump, quite IMO has set down a marker (and made the world a safer place) to show that challenging US hegemony and red lines has consequences in a way that Obama disasterously failed to do and made the world a much more dangerous place, where every tyrant and misfit dictator were prepared to try it 'on' and see what they could get away with. They now know, it is much less than before. :y :y
Just to add to that great summary; the German High Seas Fleet had a maximum armament of 12 inch main guns. It was the British Grand Fleet that had 15 inch guns on their Queen Elizabeth class super dreadnoughts, four of the class being in the Fifth Battle Squadron, that tailed behind the First Battlecruiser Squadron. It was poor fire controls on the battlecruisers that has been found to be the main cause of the loss of 3 of their number. The German battle cruisers also had light deck armour, and took some hits that should have proved as fatal as on the Royal Navy ships, but for the greatly superior fire controls undertaken as the norm by their crews.
The loss of the Hood 25 years later to the Bismark and Prinz Eugen was however down to the heavy shells of the battleship and battlecruiser penetrating the weak deck armour on about five occasions, then igniting the main stern magazine with a flash fire going to the forward magazine. The Hood's stern and bow were blown off, the main middle section then sunk, with the other pieces quickly following within 3 minutes. Just 3 men survived.
The truth is the battlecruisers were a flawed concept as originally their value lay in their great speed, 25 knots and heavy armament of eight 12 inch guns, but at the expense of only being fitted with light armour. Development of the dreadnoughts into the five British super dreadnoughts that had a top speed of 24-25 knots, eight 15 inch guns, and very heavy armour greatly narrowed the "advantage" of any battlecruiser in both the British and German navies. The German battleships also started to catch up in terms of speed and armament, and by WWII the British battlecruiser HMS Hood had little, if any, advantage over the German battleship Bismark that had it all; speed, armament and very heavy armour. At Jutland the Vice Admiral Sir David Beatty also, to compound the issues, allowed his battlecruiser squadron to approach far to close to the German High Seas Fleet and not take full advantage of the range of his main armament; 14 miles compared to the German's 11 miles. In fact it was the German fleet that opened fire first once in range of the battlecruisers. The other crucial factor was also the fact that Beatty had taken his fleet away from the very significant back up of the super dreadnoughts that would have provided the heavy fire power, 15 inch shells with a range of up to 15 miles, to cover the battlecruisers.
But overall, as Rod2 states, Jutland proved to the German High Seas Fleet that they could not effectively destroy the Royal Navy's command of the North Sea. The High Seas Fleet was designed to be a "Risk Fleet"; the thought being that the German fleet could inflict maximum damage of the Grand Fleet with it's smaller risk fleet and thus create a chance that they could equal it in size for the major der Tag, that in fact both the British and Germans were hoping for. The Risk Fleet soon realised at Jutland that the risk was too great and only sailed out of it's base again as a fleet on the 18th August 1916 as they thought a small British fleet was sailing out into the North Sea. They then got news it was the full Grand Fleet and, without firing a shot, turned tail and sailed back to port, only to reappear after the Armistice in 1918 to surrender to the Royal Navy and anchor in Scapa Flow where they scuttled their ships.
The World power had shown their might, again, and advertised who was boss :y
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How to spend $59,000,000 in a very short time! :o ::)
I didn't type spend ::) , but meant to say How to ejaculate $59,000,000 in a very short time! ;D
Did you know that in the original book by Conan Doyle, Doctor Watson ejaculated twice as often as Holmes.
An apple a day and all that... :D
For the purpose of clarification.
Ejaculation/ejaculated was a common form of exclamation, surprise or anger in the Victorian period.
For example........." exactly what the blood and stomach pills are you doing, Watson" Holmes angrily ejaculated. :)
.......anyway, back to that nasty Mr Assad.
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How to spend $59,000,000 in a very short time! :o ::)
I didn't type spend ::) , but meant to say How to ejaculate $59,000,000 in a very short time! ;D
Did you know that in the original book by Conan Doyle, Doctor Watson ejaculated twice as often as Holmes.
An apple a day and all that... :D
For the purpose of clarification.
Ejaculation/ejaculated was a common form of exclamation, surprise or anger in the Victorian period.
For example........." exactly what the blood and stomach pills are you doing, Watson" Holmes angrily ejaculated. :)
.......anyway, back to that nasty Mr Assad.
Quite. ::)
Why 59 cruise missiles? ???
My theory is that due to O'Bummers inaction the US military has a lot of ordinance mouldering away and these 59 missiles were coming up to their use by date. At about $1,000,000 a piece, Trump thought that that it would be a complete waste of taxpayers money to scrap them so thought he'd give his visitor the Chinese President Xi Jinping a fireworks show! :)
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I agree with Lizzie that the damage caused by 59 'state of the art' missiles was less than impressive. A dustpan and brush is probably all that's required. :-\
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It was a dramatic show of force rather than a strategic strike. Nothing more and nothing less ;)
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It was a dramatic show of force rather than a strategic strike. Nothing more and nothing less ;)
Without the consequences of significant casualties or risk of loss of own personnel or aircraft
Question: why are they "casualties", I don't see anything casual about being killed. ???
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Presumably from the french meaning to lounge around doing nothing ::)
Actually Medieval English with it's roots in Latin...
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/casualty ;)
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I can well understand the point that the US was making a point, a show of force. But is it a show of force when 59 of some of the most advanced missiles in the military world fails to completely eradicate a target? At Jutland that is referred to in this thread Great Britain proved it could take losses in a major sea battle, proved to the opposing fleet that they stood no chance of overcoming the Royal Navy's power, and the day after the battle was still able to put to sea 28 world beating dreadnoughts.
Did the strike on the Syrian airbase destroy all the aircraft, or even any? Were the aircraft pens reduced to rubble? Was the airfield put out of action? I think the answer from all reports is no.
In Syria whole cities are effectively now destroyed. Thousands of people have been killed and even more displaced. An international war crime has taken place, probably one of many. The countries infrastructure and people are badly damaged. Can a 59 missile air strike, that seems in physical terms to have achieved little in the eyes of non-western people who have seen so much devastation, going to be impressed by such USA / Western "might"? Russian and Syrian propaganda could rightly say to the people of Syria, and the Middle East in general, "look, this is all the mighty USA can achieve; all noise and thunder, but no substance. The USA is just a paper tiger in the Middle East and is not as strong as they look".
If you are a power that wants to flaunt it, you show effectiveness of purpose, like eradicate a target airfield, or mount a bombing mission that no one thinks is possible; like the initial bombing of Berlin by the RAF in 1940 or the USAF bombing of Tokyo in 1942, and of course the dropping of two atomic bombs in 1945. That is a show of strength, and sends a message no one can mistake. The enemy is shaken. The US bombing of the Syrian airfield will fail to shake the enemy, especially the Russians let alone Assad who know he is backed by the former.
15 missiles, for example, causing maximum damage would have sent the "we are the power" message far more than 59 poorly targeted missiles. It is human nature. ;)
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Presumably from the french meaning to lounge around doing nothing ::)
Actually Medieval English with it's roots in Latin...
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/casualty ;)
Well, if I ever get flattened by a bus, or wiped out in a terrorist attack, I want to be mentioned as a "pretty damned seriousity" with nothing casual at all about it ;D
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I can well understand the point . . . . . . . . .
Lizzie, remind me to NEVER argue or fall out with you . . . . . .
Lizzie for PM :y
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I can well understand the point . . . . . . . . .
Lizzie, remind me to NEVER argue or fall out with you . . . . . .
Lizzie for PM :y
I wish!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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One missile targeting Assads pool would have made an effective point, but with a very different tone.
Ok, 59 might seem like a daft number, but imagine the sight of them streaking across the night sky... enough to put the fear of God into anyone who saw them...
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Well, there you go, it has been announced that the US have used a bomb of just under 22,000, but in Afghanistan not Syria :D
http://www.fox13memphis.com/news/trending-now/us-drops-moab-bomb-on-afghanistan/512244932
That is more like it. As I previously stated in this thread, conventional 22,000 "earthquake" bombs were used during WWII. Perhaps the US next time should use these instead of 59 cruise missles in Syria; they will do far more damage :y
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Well, there you go, it has been announced that the US have used a bomb of just under 22,000, but in Afghanistan not Syria :D
http://www.fox13memphis.com/news/trending-now/us-drops-moab-bomb-on-afghanistan/512244932
That is more like it. As I previously stated in this thread, conventional 22,000 "earthquake" bombs were used during WWII. Perhaps the US next time should use these instead of 59 cruise missles in Syria; they will do far more damage :y
I think they might also be saving a few of those for when they have a quiet word with Kim Jong-un, along with few 30,000lb GBU-57B MOP's on the soon to be former nuclear facilities. ::) ::) ::)
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Well, there you go, it has been announced that the US have used a bomb of just under 22,000, but in Afghanistan not Syria :D
http://www.fox13memphis.com/news/trending-now/us-drops-moab-bomb-on-afghanistan/512244932
That is more like it. As I previously stated in this thread, conventional 22,000 "earthquake" bombs were used during WWII. Perhaps the US next time should use these instead of 59 cruise missles in Syria; they will do far more damage :y
I think they might also be saving a few of those for when they have a quiet word with Kim Jong-un, along with few 30,000lb GBU-57B MOP's on the soon to be former nuclear facilities. ::) ::) ::)
I hope so :y :y
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We went to Syria on holiday in 2006, on an archeological tourist holiday. I'm not sure we will be going back anytime soon though ::)
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We went to Syria on holiday in 2006, on an archeological tourist holiday. I'm not sure we will be going back anytime soon though ::)
Plenty of ruins to visit there now.
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We went to Syria on holiday in 2006, on an archeological tourist holiday. I'm not sure we will be going back anytime soon though ::)
Plenty of ruins to visit there now.
Yeah, some not so ancient either :D
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Well, there you go, it has been announced that the US have used a bomb of just under 22,000, but in Afghanistan not Syria :D
http://www.fox13memphis.com/news/trending-now/us-drops-moab-bomb-on-afghanistan/512244932
That is more like it. As I previously stated in this thread, conventional 22,000 "earthquake" bombs were used during WWII. Perhaps the US next time should use these instead of 59 cruise missles in Syria; they will do far more damage :y
Missed the point... again.
That is the difference between a strategic strike and making a statement ::)
Besides, unless I am mistaken, surely the whole point of history is to learn from it :-\ But I digress...
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Well, there you go, it has been announced that the US have used a bomb of just under 22,000, but in Afghanistan not Syria :D
http://www.fox13memphis.com/news/trending-now/us-drops-moab-bomb-on-afghanistan/512244932
That is more like it. As I previously stated in this thread, conventional 22,000 "earthquake" bombs were used during WWII. Perhaps the US next time should use these instead of 59 cruise missles in Syria; they will do far more damage :y
Missed the point... again.
That is the difference between a strategic strike and making a statement ::)
Besides, unless I am mistaken, surely the whole point of history is to learn from it :-\ But I digress...
You may think I constantly miss the point, but actually I think in wider picture, and long game, terms. ;)
I know very well the difference between a strategic strike and making a statement, but I do not think, like you, Trump appreciates that. He is not a politician by training, and has missed the point of "shock and awe" tactics that his predecessors have used. In Syria he has fallen between the two, and ended up with a poor result. Is Assad taking any notice?; no. Is Putin taking any notice?; no. Has there been a rush by Trump to repeat his "statement"? no. That is because he failed on all accounts. First to do what he said so boldly; "kick the shit" out of them or make them wake up and be worried or frightened. Yes in history we learn, or should do. We have learnt that if you want to achieve in the "making a statement" or the strategic strike arena you do it hard, and without weakness or flaw. You must be fully committed. If the power taking the action fails in these respects, like with Britain over Suez in 1956, they achieve nothing but looking weak and half hearted. Thank God in WWII it was all about the strategic strike, as, like with Assad, "making a statement" just fell on deaf ears and the evil determination of Hitler, and the Allies won.
In short, a super power can ill afford to fall short of maximum intent as in our flawed world they can too easily become a paper tiger. :)
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US used the right tool for the job with cruise missiles, so they did not endanger their pilots and aircraft against the Russian S300 and S400 SAM systems. The use of a MOAB would risk aircraft and also cause unnecessary civilian casualties due to the wide blast effect. It is very important that the West keep the moral high ground compared to Assad's and Putin's war crimes.
The cruise missiles only carry 1000lb warheads, so dropping 58 of them will damage not obliterate an airfield. This was the point of the exercise. If Assad uses gas again and continues with his indiscriminate barrel bombing of civilians, grain stores, bakeries and hospitals like he did again yesterday, then don't be surprised if the next batch of cruise missiles are much closer to his palace. Legally, the US would have to be at war with Assad to use decapitation, so this is unlikely. Their targeting of terrorist leaders can and is classed as legitimate self defense, but it does have its critics. This could not be used as a reason against Assad as his and Russian forces have not deliberately and directly attacked any Western forces. This is also why we quite rightly warned Syria and Russia before the airfield attack, so they could evacuate their forces.
Legitimate preemptive nuclear strikes can be used by the US for their or their allies self-defense, something that Kim Jong-un might yet find out to his cost. ::) ::) ::) Obummer tried to get this option removed from US nuclear doctrine, but failed, primarily over North Korea and also for the protection of South Korea, Taiwan and Japan. :y
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This is also why they quite rightly warned Syria and Russia before the airfield attack, so they could evacuate their forces.
We? ??? Amended for accuracy Rods! ::) ;)
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US used the right tool for the job with cruise missiles, so they did not endanger their pilots and aircraft against the Russian S300 and S400 SAM systems. The use of a MOAB would risk aircraft and also cause unnecessary civilian casualties due to the wide blast effect. It is very important that the West keep the moral high ground compared to Assad's and Putin's war crimes.
The cruise missiles only carry 1000lb warheads, so dropping 58 of them will damage not obliterate an airfield. This was the point of the exercise. If Assad uses gas again and continues with his indiscriminate barrel bombing of civilians, grain stores, bakeries and hospitals like he did again yesterday, then don't be surprised if the next batch of cruise missiles are much closer to his palace. Legally, the US would have to be at war with Assad to use decapitation, so this is unlikely. Their targeting of terrorist leaders can and is classed as legitimate self defense, but it does have its critics. This could not be used as a reason against Assad as his and Russian forces have not deliberately and directly attacked any Western forces. This is also why we quite rightly warned Syria and Russia before the airfield attack, so they could evacuate their forces.
Legitimate preemptive nuclear strikes can be used by the US for their or their allies self-defense, something that Kim Jong-un might yet find out to his cost. ::) ::) ::) Obummer tried to get this option removed from US nuclear doctrine, but failed, primarily over North Korea and also for the protection of South Korea, Taiwan and Japan. :y
The blast effect of these MOAB's is 1 mile and would not effect civilians not engaged in airfield activities. The risk of a cruise missle going astray, especially when 59 are being used, and killing a multitude of civilians is far higher than these accurately dropped MOAB.
Is it not already too late for the USA / West to claim the moral high ground? The USA and the western forces have stood by and watched war crime after war crime take place as thousands of women and children have been blasted by Assad's, Putin's and "rebel" forces without any retaliation. Only discussions have taken place in that paper tiger of an institution called the United Nations. It needs the US to take decisive action with strategic attacks combined with "statements" such as in Afganistan with the MOAB action. Only then will all nations wake up and realise that the super power on the block has teeth and will take decisive action to halt what is a diplomatic disaster called the Middle East. The Afgan attack has certainly woken up China and Northe Korea to the reality at last that the US will extend it's will over those who threaten it's interests. Russia also now knows that "their friend Trump" will give them no favours and (we hope) is starting to dictate how things will be.
We shall see of course, and no doubt the diplomats of the worlds governments are now working hard to fathom what it all means. It does of course mean that the UK defence systems and intelligence must be on top of their game.
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Decisive action to halt what is the diplomatic disaster of the middle east.?
We havent got a good track record of putting something in place having created a vacuum. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and now Syria, you cannot bomb an ideology out of existence. Assuming the West managed to remove Assad, what then? Draw some arbitrary lines on maps? We have form on that.
Syria today, Yemen next week. Iran next year.
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The blast effect of these MOAB's is 1 mile and would not effect civilians not engaged in airfield activities. The risk of a cruise missle going astray, especially when 59 are being used, and killing a multitude of civilians is far higher than these accurately dropped MOAB.
Is it not already too late for the USA / West to claim the moral high ground? The USA and the western forces have stood by and watched war crime after war crime take place as thousands of women and children have been blasted by Assad's, Putin's and "rebel" forces without any retaliation. Only discussions have taken place in that paper tiger of an institution called the United Nations. It needs the US to take decisive action with strategic attacks combined with "statements" such as in Afganistan with the MOAB action. Only then will all nations wake up and realise that the super power on the block has teeth and will take decisive action to halt what is a diplomatic disaster called the Middle East. The Afgan attack has certainly woken up China and Northe Korea to the reality at last that the US will extend it's will over those who threaten it's interests. Russia also now knows that "their friend Trump" will give them no favours and (we hope) is starting to dictate how things will be.
We shall see of course, and no doubt the diplomats of the worlds governments are now working hard to fathom what it all means. It does of course mean that the UK defence systems and intelligence must be on top of their game.
The MOAB is of no use in Syria or North Korea. It is basically loaded on a pallet and slides out the back of a C-130 Hercules. The Herky bird has the radar signature of a large skyscraper, and is about as manouverable. It would be chicken feed for any reasonably competent air defence system, and Syria is more than semi-competent.
Any strike against Syria (or N.Korea) has to be carried out by cutting edge stuff - cruise missiles, stealth drones or B2 bombers. For small strikes cruise missiles are ideal. If you want a big hole in the ground, then the B2 can carry two GBU57 bombs. Any other delivery platform just puts the crew in severe danger.
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The blast effect of these MOAB's is 1 mile and would not effect civilians not engaged in airfield activities. The risk of a cruise missle going astray, especially when 59 are being used, and killing a multitude of civilians is far higher than these accurately dropped MOAB.
Is it not already too late for the USA / West to claim the moral high ground? The USA and the western forces have stood by and watched war crime after war crime take place as thousands of women and children have been blasted by Assad's, Putin's and "rebel" forces without any retaliation. Only discussions have taken place in that paper tiger of an institution called the United Nations. It needs the US to take decisive action with strategic attacks combined with "statements" such as in Afganistan with the MOAB action. Only then will all nations wake up and realise that the super power on the block has teeth and will take decisive action to halt what is a diplomatic disaster called the Middle East. The Afgan attack has certainly woken up China and Northe Korea to the reality at last that the US will extend it's will over those who threaten it's interests. Russia also now knows that "their friend Trump" will give them no favours and (we hope) is starting to dictate how things will be.
We shall see of course, and no doubt the diplomats of the worlds governments are now working hard to fathom what it all means. It does of course mean that the UK defence systems and intelligence must be on top of their game.
The MOAB is of no use in Syria or North Korea. It is basically loaded on a pallet and slides out the back of a C-130 Hercules. The Herky bird has the radar signature of a large skyscraper, and is about as manouverable. It would be chicken feed for any reasonably competent air defence system, and Syria is more than semi-competent.
Any strike against Syria (or N.Korea) has to be carried out by cutting edge stuff - cruise missiles, stealth drones or B2 bombers. For small strikes cruise missiles are ideal. If you want a big hole in the ground, then the B2 can carry two GBU57 bombs. Any other delivery platform just puts the crew in severe danger.
You forgot ICBM's :)
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Decisive action to halt what is the diplomatic disaster of the middle east.?
We havent got a good track record of putting something in place having created a vacuum. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and now Syria, you cannot bomb an ideology out of existence. Assuming the West managed to remove Assad, what then? Draw some arbitrary lines on maps? We have form on that.
Syria today, Yemen next week. Iran next year.
Let's face it, the Middle East has been a melting pot for politic and religious unrest since before the last days of the Romans. The West has been taking action in those parts for 1000 years. Who is to say that conflicts over the Middle East will not still be the norm for another 1000 years. The Romans up to 1453 had some control over these parts, then the Ottoman Empire, with western empires mixing the pot.
Jesus even predicted that Jerusalem would always be the centre of conflict until the final Judgement, the Apocalypse.
Who has any real answers to it, that fatal mix of politics and religion?
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You forgot ICBM's :)
Launching ICBM's would be extremely foolish - unless you tell the Russians and Chinese that you're going to do it first. Both Russia and China have ICBM launch detection systems in space, and if they see one unexpectedly jump out of a hole in the ground or from a sub, then you'd better hope their systems are good enough to predict where it's heading in-case they think it's headed their way and send one back!
Cruise missiles and B2's can both carry buckets of sunshine to Korea without risking ICBM provoked WW3.
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Well, there you go, it has been announced that the US have used a bomb of just under 22,000, but in Afghanistan not Syria :D
http://www.fox13memphis.com/news/trending-now/us-drops-moab-bomb-on-afghanistan/512244932
That is more like it. As I previously stated in this thread, conventional 22,000 "earthquake" bombs were used during WWII. Perhaps the US next time should use these instead of 59 cruise missles in Syria; they will do far more damage :y
I think they might also be saving a few of those for when they have a quiet word with Kim Jong-un, along with few 30,000lb GBU-57B MOP's on the soon to be former nuclear facilities. ::) ::) ::)
I'm assuming they would have to hit them all at the same time to avoid retaliation?
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Well, there you go, it has been announced that the US have used a bomb of just under 22,000, but in Afghanistan not Syria :D
http://www.fox13memphis.com/news/trending-now/us-drops-moab-bomb-on-afghanistan/512244932
That is more like it. As I previously stated in this thread, conventional 22,000 "earthquake" bombs were used during WWII. Perhaps the US next time should use these instead of 59 cruise missles in Syria; they will do far more damage :y
I think they might also be saving a few of those for when they have a quiet word with Kim Jong-un, along with few 30,000lb GBU-57B MOP's on the soon to be former nuclear facilities. ::) ::) ::)
I'm assuming they would have to hit them all at the same time to avoid retaliation?
That would depend on how much preparation is required before launch and although the US does not officially have an anti-ICBM defense system, who knows? All nuclear stuff and their capabilities are very closely guarded secrets.
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Jesus was a fictional character based loosely on a fisherman from Nazareth.
Quite what he did, or didn't, say about anything has absolutely Sweet Fanny Adams to do with anything... least of all squabbling between minority Arabian factions or some despot lunatic in South East Asia ;D
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Jesus was a fictional character based loosely on a fisherman from Nazareth.
Quite what he did, or didn't, say about anything has absolutely Sweet Fanny Adams to do with anything... least of all squabbling between minority Arabian factions or some despot lunatic in South East Asia ;D
That is your opinion, many others feel differently. ::) ::)
To many of us Jesus and God will make a difference and win through what is the evil of this world. It will be painful times, but they have everything to do with what happens in this place we exist in at the moment. It is why billions are remembing the sacrifice Jesus made for all of us today. :y
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Didn't answer the question ::)
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Too many barbarous acts done in the name of religion make it a no no for me.
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Too many barbarous acts done in the name of religion make it a no no for me.
Amen to that.
The whole Mygodisbetterthanyourgod bs has alot to answer for.
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Until the rise of ISIS, it was historically much more about people who wanted power and territory, attaching their agenda to the religious beliefs of ordinary people, in order to get their unwavering support. From the Middle East, to Northern Ireland its the oldest trick in the book.
It seems different with ISIS though. They are actually doing what they do for purely religious reasons.
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Decisive action to halt what is the diplomatic disaster of the middle east.?
We havent got a good track record of putting something in place having created a vacuum. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and now Syria, you cannot bomb an ideology out of existence. Assuming the West managed to remove Assad, what then? Draw some arbitrary lines on maps? We have form on that.
Syria today, Yemen next week. Iran next year.
Let's face it, the Middle East has been a melting pot for politic and religious unrest since before the last days of the Romans. The West has been taking action in those parts for 1000 years. Who is to say that conflicts over the Middle East will not still be the norm for another 1000 years. The Romans up to 1453 had some control over these parts, then the Ottoman Empire, with western empires mixing the pot.
Jesus even predicted that Jerusalem would always be the centre of conflict until the final Judgement, the Apocalypse.
Who has any real answers to it, that fatal mix of politics and religion?
This was my post that touched on religion. I explained that this is no easy problem to solve and is a terrible mix of politics and religion. Always has been (well for at least about 1,000 years) and always will be until the end of time. It is not all about religion, or all about politics. It is a about man's evil greedy lust for power over other people's, such as now in Syria.
I make the point about Jesus as, for those billions of us who believe, he did predict much future trouble for "Jerusalem", and for us it will be God who finally puts an end to the misery by wiping away the evil. Obviously a lot, including the so called Muslims of ISIS and non-believers - it makes no difference - they do not believe that and in this case only crave for power.
If you have no faith then there is nothing to look forward to. If you have faith, you know that there will be THE answer to cure all.
That is my Christian opinion, but I do not expect total agreement from others. It is for the individual to decide. In the meantime the slaughter goes on of people of all religions, creeds and colours. Politics has a record of failure and resorting to war. No doubt we will see more here in the Middle East, and no doubt elsewhere in Asia. Even if you do not normally pray for peace, it may be a good time to start!!
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Religion is used as a justification for all sorts of things, not least power and control over people and money.
This, and statements like it...
Imake the point about Jesus as, for those billions of us who believe, he did predict much future trouble for "Jerusalem", and for us it will be God who finally puts an end to the misery by wiping away the evil. Obviously a lot, including the so called Muslims of ISIS and non-believers - it makes no difference - they do not believe that and in this case only crave for power.
... serve only to rile those who do not conform to 'good christian values' as they imply that any one other than a god fearing Christian is by default, evil and therefore deserves to opps off and rot in eternal misery.
You believe what you believe, I will continue to do the same, but don't you dare presume to preach or otherwise impose those beliefs on me.
I take particular exception to this statement...
If you have no faith then there is nothing to look forward to. If you have faith, you know that there will be THE answer to cure all.
Your last statement however nicely sums up the arrogant hypocrisy of your position.
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Religion is used as a justification for all sorts of things, not least power and control over people and money.
This, and statements like it...
Imake the point about Jesus as, for those billions of us who believe, he did predict much future trouble for "Jerusalem", and for us it will be God who finally puts an end to the misery by wiping away the evil. Obviously a lot, including the so called Muslims of ISIS and non-believers - it makes no difference - they do not believe that and in this case only crave for power.
... serve only to rile those who do not conform to 'good christian values' as they imply that any one other than a god fearing Christian is by default, evil and therefore deserves to opps off and rot in eternal misery.
You believe what you believe, I will continue to do the same, but don't you dare presume to preach or otherwise impose those beliefs on me.
I take particular exception to this statement...
If you have no faith then there is nothing to look forward to. If you have faith, you know that there will be THE answer to cure all.
Your last statement however nicely sums up the arrogant hypocrisy of your position.
Whatever :y :y
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I do agree with DG on this issue Lizzie, I find some of your comments came across, to me anyway, as somewhat sanctimonious.
Yes, i do have faith, but not in religion.
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I do agree with DG on this issue Lizzie, I find some of your comments came across, to me anyway, as somewhat sanctimonious.
Yes, i do have faith, but not in religion.
Whenever someone talks about their Christian faith they can be classed as sanctimonious. This is never my intention and I apologize if you think I have; I am just stating what I feel in the posts within this thread about the Middle East. Nothing more, nothing less. As for having faith but not in religion, it may be of interest to know so do I. I do not agree with the politics of any of the churches, but just believe and have faith praying in a private capacity.
But there you have the risks, as always was in the past, of a thread being started in General Chat that touches on politics, which inevitably brings in the subject of religion. People have opinions both ways, and that will come out in the discussions. We comment in terms of our personal opinions, but as was always the case, there is always someone who gets upset about your views and cannot accept counter comment. ;)
In view of what I last stated in my post - "That is my Christian opinion, but I do not expect total agreement from others. It is for the individual to decide."
and what I stated in my first post that I re-quoted, I do wonder if they have been read and understood. But, hey ho, if that is how people interrupt carefully constructed comments.................. 8)
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I do agree with DG on this issue Lizzie, I find some of your comments came across, to me anyway, as somewhat sanctimonious.
Yes, i do have faith, but not in religion.
Whenever someone talks about their Christian faith they can be classed as sanctimonious. This is never my intention and I apologize if you think I have; I am just stating what I feel in the posts within this thread about the Middle East. Nothing more, nothing less. As for having faith but not in religion, it may be of interest to know so do I. I do not agree with the politics of any of the churches, but just believe and have faith praying in a private capacity.
But there you have the risks, as always was in the past, of a thread being started in General Chat that touches on politics, which inevitably brings in the subject of religion. People have opinions both ways, and that will come out in the discussions. We comment in terms of our personal opinions, but as was always the case, there is always someone who gets upset about your views and cannot accept counter comment. ;)
I bet you grow lovely roses :-X
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I do agree with DG on this issue Lizzie, I find some of your comments came across, to me anyway, as somewhat sanctimonious.
Yes, i do have faith, but not in religion.
Whenever someone talks about their Christian faith they can be classed as sanctimonious. This is never my intention and I apologize if you think I have; I am just stating what I feel in the posts within this thread about the Middle East. Nothing more, nothing less. As for having faith but not in religion, it may be of interest to know so do I. I do not agree with the politics of any of the churches, but just believe and have faith praying in a private capacity.
But there you have the risks, as always was in the past, of a thread being started in General Chat that touches on politics, which inevitably brings in the subject of religion. People have opinions both ways, and that will come out in the discussions. We comment in terms of our personal opinions, but as was always the case, there is always someone who gets upset about your views and cannot accept counter comment. ;)
I bet you grow lovely roses :-X
Yes I do, with all the shit I have to clear up for other people! ;D ;D ;D ;)
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As you say Lizzie, we all have our differing points of view on these (and many other things as well) so we will have to agree to disagree on these. :y
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....... and for us it will be God who finally puts an end to the misery by wiping away the evil.
Well he's taking his bloody time over it Lizzie! ::)
Still I suppose he's busy managing supernovas, stopping black holes from swallowing us up, and stopping bits of the universe whizzing off in the wrong direction, to worry about one species on one planet in a forgotten godforsaken corner of one galaxy amongst billions. :)
Happy Easter! :y
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As you say Lizzie, we all have our differing points of view on these (and many other things as well) so we will have to agree to disagree on these. :y
:y :y
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....... and for us it will be God who finally puts an end to the misery by wiping away the evil.
Well he's taking his bloody time over it Lizzie! ::)
Still I suppose he's busy managing supernovas, stopping black holes from swallowing us up, and stopping bits of the universe whizzing off in the wrong direction, to worry about one species on one planet in a forgotten godforsaken corner of one galaxy amongst billions. :)
Happy Easter! :y
Yes, God has his hands full ;D ;D ;D
Happy Easter to you as well :-* :-*
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Religion...again. Poison on a forum and should lead to a ban for anyone that brings it into the conversation. God and, therefore, religion cannot be proved and only exists in the minds of people. Things exist in the minds of nutters and, if they insist that they are real, they get sectioned.
My point to you in particular, Lizzie, is that once you bring religion into a discussion, you lose all credibility. People may listen to your point of view, until you talk about imaginary beings.....and, by definition, that's what god is.
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One more point, and a serious one at that. We have a very large membership on here, so it stands to reason that there will be people who believe in a different fairy to you. I don't think that they should have to listen your condescending sermons about what 'god' has got in store for them.
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Religion...again. Poison on a forum and should lead to a ban for anyone that brings it into the conversation. God and, therefore, religion cannot be proved and only exists in the minds of people. Things exist in the minds of nutters and, if they insist that they are real, they get sectioned.
My point to you in particular, Lizzie, is that once you bring religion into a discussion, you lose all credibility. People may listen to your point of view, until you talk about imaginary beings.....and, by definition, that's what god is.
No the problem is that some do not like matters talked about that they either cannot understand or do not believe in. Like EVERYONE else on this forum I have my opinions and if it is ok for others to express them then it must be ok for me to express my views.
In this thread I only referred to Jesus and what he said. I then, yet again, am faced with certain individuals insulting our God and my beliefs. I have not insulted anyone, but you and Doctor Gollam have decided that YOU are offended by my opinions. Give me strength!!!
I have experienced this before on this Forum and decided to leave. I have come back refreshed and I WILL state what I believe all the time others are expressing their views, which I may not agree with, but, we can agree to disagree. Why not?!
Not once have I said YOU MUST agree with me, so why insult me with certain statements made by you and DG my faith, Jesus, and our God? Why do you take things so seriously and make such rude comment? I have done nothing to you. I am just trying to be a Christain, a woman, and someone who has been life educated with an opinion on the subjects posted. You have decided to read into my posts things that are not there, and it is you who have the problem.
If you want to trade childish insults I cannot stop you, but it is you who are discrediting yourself. You have always tried to put on a demonstrative act, and DG with his evil and disturbing avatar and personality does the same. I am sure you and him are just playing up your acts to try and wind up members like me who dare to pass comment.
So you want anyone who mentions religion to be banned? How about banning any adult conversations, or even just banning General Chat altogether? Let's just keep this forum as it always was; a car forum about Omega's and keeping them going, then additionally about all other cars?
If that was the case then opinions about life would not come into it. But how boring for those who just want an intelligent conversation on many varied subjects that affect our lives. :y
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I know I am new hear, and but a simpleton, but how, pray* tell can an avatar of a character from a highly regarded piece of children's literature be 'evil and offensive' yet you make no mention of the signature at the bottom of each post?
*no pun intended
Religion is a private matter, and can be very divisive, especially in well meaning or pious hands.
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I know I am new hear, and but a simpleton, but how, pray* tell can an avatar of a character from a highly regarded piece of children's literature be 'evil and offensive' yet you make no mention of the signature at the bottom of each post?
*no pun intended
Religion is a private matter, and can be very divisive, especially in well meaning or pious hands.
Gollum is an evil character in the book Lord of the Rings which are considered to be adult reading and of extreme complex.
I would never normally raise the issue of another members avatar, but in this case it is used to exaggerate the character as a devilish member with comments in many posts to match. I make the point as I do NOT believe Doctor Gollum is really evil and nasty, he just plays a character that can often make you laugh. However, on this occasion, and a previous one for me, he has made directly insulting comments about me and my beliefs, which STEMO, another "character" on this forum has repeated and amplified.
As I have repeatedly stated, we all have our opinions and should work with them when expressed. Why though should someone insult another over their opinion? If you fully read my offerings in this thread you should understand my point. :y
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I was going to break into a fit of laughter, but, maybe I'd be better trying to understand this version of events.
So......tell me if I've got it wrong:
God created man in his own image and made a nice world for him to live on. Day, night, water, land, food...all good stuff. Then he gave him a woman to play with. This resulted in more people, lots of them in fact. Move on a bit and god didn't like the way things were going, so he sent his only son down to sort things out. To prove he was the son of god he did some magic tricks. Some of the people who god created didn't like this, so they nailed him to a piece of wood and put hlm in a dark cave and put a big rock in front of it. Job done.
But no! He came back to life, moved the stone, spent 40 days telling people how pissed off he was and went back home to his dad.
But, before he went, in a stroke of genius, he told people he was giving them their own free will, so if they did anything bad, it wasn't his fault, it was theirs. But...he'd be watching, and if you were naughty...well...he had this mate called Nick who'd sort you out after you were dead.
How am I doing?
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Religion...again. Poison on a forum and should lead to a ban for anyone that brings it into the conversation. God and, therefore, religion cannot be proved and only exists in the minds of people. Things exist in the minds of nutters and, if they insist that they are real, they get sectioned.
My point to you in particular, Lizzie, is that once you bring religion into a discussion, you lose all credibility. People may listen to your point of view, until you talk about imaginary beings.....and, by definition, that's what god is.
No the problem is that some do not like matters talked about that they either cannot understand or do not believe in. Like EVERYONE else on this forum I have my opinions and if it is ok for others to express them then it must be ok for me to express my views.If, by insinuation, you are suggesting that I am uneducated and misguided, then you are gravely mistaken.
In this thread I only referred to Jesus and what he said. I then, yet again, am faced with certain individuals insulting our God and my beliefs. I have not insulted anyone, but you and Doctor Gollam have decided that YOU are offended by my opinions. Give me strength!!! Your posts on this matter have varied from pompous and condescending to downright offensive
I have experienced this before on this Forum and decided to leave. I have come back refreshed and I WILL state what I believe all the time others are expressing their views, which I may not agree with, but, we can agree to disagree. Why not?!Historical situations of your own making. And with each resurgence we a forced to bear witness to how you were wronged. Not always instantly, but sooner or later. The Hampshire cambelt me springs to mind. Everyone there got stuck in, and the whole weekend was agreed at the time to have been enjoyed by everyone who attended... yet sometime after the event, and in a flouncing statement, you announced how you had felt unwelcomed; and following and argument felt you should leave.
Not once have I said YOU MUST agree with me, so why insult me with certain statements made by you and DG my faith, Jesus, and our God? Why do you take things so seriously and make such rude comment? I have done nothing to you. I am just trying to be a Christain, a woman, and someone who has been life educated with an opinion on the subjects posted. You have decided to read into my posts things that are not there, and it is you who have the problem.The written word is a powerful tool, and used in a considered manner can reap many deliberate interpretations. Being a woman, a chri stain (Onan would be pleased), and an opinionated one at that, gives you the right to take defense of a devisive point of view? No more than anyone else in the world, be they of faith or not/coloured or not/married or gay or transgender. You bought religious opinion into this, fully knowing and understanding where it would lead. This is your bed. Lie in it.
If you want to trade childish insults I cannot stop you, but it is you who are discrediting yourself. You have always tried to put on a demonstrative act, and DG with his evil and disturbing avatar and personality does the same. I am sure you and him are just playing up your acts to try and wind up members like me who dare to pass comment.What ires you more? The insults themselves or the perceived childishness? You wind yourself up by provoking such so called attacks, leading those of a more straight talking nature to such ends.
So you want anyone who mentions religion to be banned? How about banning any adult conversations, or even just banning General Chat altogether? Let's just keep this forum as it always was; a car forum about Omega's and keeping them going, then additionally about all other cars?Hmmm banning Gen Dis? An interesting idea, and curiously one which gets raised whenever you cause a rumpus such as this. Gen Dis serves a purpose, but the rights and wrongs of personal faith are not that purpose, and therefore might be reasonably be considered taboo.
If that was the case then opinions about life would not come into it. But how boring for those who just want an intelligent conversation on many varied subjects that affect our lives. :y
And that's all that I have to say about that... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjOImF3Idis&feature=youtube_gdata_player)
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Incidentally, I first read the Hobbit when I was nine... Lord of the Rings not long after.
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.......and all this attack because I mentioned Jesus as a side quote on suggesting it (the Middle East) was a complex, long standing issue.
More insults from both Gollum and STEMO about what I and billions believe. From what you say though it goes back way before this post. You have got a weed up your arse and now want to make me feel very uncomfortable.
How childish.
You want me to leave again? Not this time matey!
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.......and all this attack because I mentioned Jesus as a side quote on suggesting it (the Middle East) was a complex, long standing issue.
More insults from both Gollum and STEMO about what I and billions believe. From what you say though it goes back way before this post. You have got a weed up your arse and now want to make me feel very uncomfortable.
How childish.
You want me to leave again? Not this time matey!
Insults? Which bits did I get wrong then? :-\
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US used the right tool for the job with cruise missiles, so they did not endanger their pilots and aircraft against the Russian S300 and S400 SAM systems. The use of a MOAB would risk aircraft and also cause unnecessary civilian casualties due to the wide blast effect. It is very important that the West keep the moral high ground compared to Assad's and Putin's war crimes.
The cruise missiles only carry 1000lb warheads, so dropping 58 of them will damage not obliterate an airfield. This was the point of the exercise. If Assad uses gas again and continues with his indiscriminate barrel bombing of civilians, grain stores, bakeries and hospitals like he did again yesterday, then don't be surprised if the next batch of cruise missiles are much closer to his palace. Legally, the US would have to be at war with Assad to use decapitation, so this is unlikely. Their targeting of terrorist leaders can and is classed as legitimate self defense, but it does have its critics. This could not be used as a reason against Assad as his and Russian forces have not deliberately and directly attacked any Western forces. This is also why we quite rightly warned Syria and Russia before the airfield attack, so they could evacuate their forces.
Legitimate preemptive nuclear strikes can be used by the US for their or their allies self-defense, something that Kim Jong-un might yet find out to his cost. ::) ::) ::) Obummer tried to get this option removed from US nuclear doctrine, but failed, primarily over North Korea and also for the protection of South Korea, Taiwan and Japan. :y
The blast effect of these MOAB's is 1 mile and would not effect civilians not engaged in airfield activities. The risk of a cruise missle going astray, especially when 59 are being used, and killing a multitude of civilians is far higher than these accurately dropped MOAB.
Is it not already too late for the USA / West to claim the moral high ground? The USA and the western forces have stood by and watched war crime after war crime take place as thousands of women and children have been blasted by Assad's, Putin's and "rebel" forces without any retaliation. Only discussions have taken place in that paper tiger of an institution called the United Nations. It needs the US to take decisive action with strategic attacks combined with "statements" such as in Afganistan with the MOAB action. Only then will all nations wake up and realise that the super power on the block has teeth and will take decisive action to halt what is a diplomatic disaster called the Middle East. The Afgan attack has certainly woken up China and Northe Korea to the reality at last that the US will extend it's will over those who threaten it's interests. Russia also now knows that "their friend Trump" will give them no favours and (we hope) is starting to dictate how things will be.
We shall see of course, and no doubt the diplomats of the worlds governments are now working hard to fathom what it all means. It does of course mean that the UK defence systems and intelligence must be on top of their game.
If you think the CEP accuracy of a bomb, released by using a drag-chute to slide it out of a loading ramp on an MC130 ;D ;D ;D is higher than for GPS / laser-gyro guided / satellite linked ordinance. ;D ;D ;D Then good luck with that one. ;D ;D ;D
A civilian is a civilian when it comes to propaganda, it doesn't matter if they work as a cleaner, cook, or whatever or just in the vicinity in the wrong place at the wrong time, their death will still be used to paint the West as having worse standards than the enemies. :(
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I am going to comment on just one more thing as this nonsense over me stating a simple opinion has gone far enough.
So now we come to the nitty gritty. You carry a grudge with me from YEARS ago; over 5 I seem to recall, by stating in your red comments against my explanation:
"Historical situations of your own making. And with each resurgence we a forced to bear witness to how you were wronged. Not always instantly, but sooner or later. The Hampshire cambelt me springs to mind. Everyone there got stuck in, and the whole weekend was agreed at the time to have been enjoyed by everyone who attended... yet sometime after the event, and in a flouncing statement, you announced how you had felt unwelcomed; and following and argument felt you should leave."
So I dare to comment over a meet over 5 years ago and now, because, as previously stated you have a weed up your arse, I receive a barrage of pent up anger that insults me and others who believe in God, offends my beliefs, blasphemes against God, Jesus, and seemingly the Holy Spirit for good measure (no pun intended! ;D) No matter what I say on this forum you do not want to forget or forgive me for just expressing opinions in threads of long ago. Amazing. It says a lot about you. Perhaps now though you have got it off your chest and can move on.
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US used the right tool for the job with cruise missiles, so they did not endanger their pilots and aircraft against the Russian S300 and S400 SAM systems. The use of a MOAB would risk aircraft and also cause unnecessary civilian casualties due to the wide blast effect. It is very important that the West keep the moral high ground compared to Assad's and Putin's war crimes.
The cruise missiles only carry 1000lb warheads, so dropping 58 of them will damage not obliterate an airfield. This was the point of the exercise. If Assad uses gas again and continues with his indiscriminate barrel bombing of civilians, grain stores, bakeries and hospitals like he did again yesterday, then don't be surprised if the next batch of cruise missiles are much closer to his palace. Legally, the US would have to be at war with Assad to use decapitation, so this is unlikely. Their targeting of terrorist leaders can and is classed as legitimate self defense, but it does have its critics. This could not be used as a reason against Assad as his and Russian forces have not deliberately and directly attacked any Western forces. This is also why we quite rightly warned Syria and Russia before the airfield attack, so they could evacuate their forces.
Legitimate preemptive nuclear strikes can be used by the US for their or their allies self-defense, something that Kim Jong-un might yet find out to his cost. ::) ::) ::) Obummer tried to get this option removed from US nuclear doctrine, but failed, primarily over North Korea and also for the protection of South Korea, Taiwan and Japan. :y
The blast effect of these MOAB's is 1 mile and would not effect civilians not engaged in airfield activities. The risk of a cruise missle going astray, especially when 59 are being used, and killing a multitude of civilians is far higher than these accurately dropped MOAB.
Is it not already too late for the USA / West to claim the moral high ground? The USA and the western forces have stood by and watched war crime after war crime take place as thousands of women and children have been blasted by Assad's, Putin's and "rebel" forces without any retaliation. Only discussions have taken place in that paper tiger of an institution called the United Nations. It needs the US to take decisive action with strategic attacks combined with "statements" such as in Afganistan with the MOAB action. Only then will all nations wake up and realise that the super power on the block has teeth and will take decisive action to halt what is a diplomatic disaster called the Middle East. The Afgan attack has certainly woken up China and Northe Korea to the reality at last that the US will extend it's will over those who threaten it's interests. Russia also now knows that "their friend Trump" will give them no favours and (we hope) is starting to dictate how things will be.
We shall see of course, and no doubt the diplomats of the worlds governments are now working hard to fathom what it all means. It does of course mean that the UK defence systems and intelligence must be on top of their game.
If you think the CEP accuracy of a bomb, released by using a drag-chute to slide it out of a loading ramp on an MC130 ;D ;D ;D is higher than for GPS / laser-gyro guided / satellite linked ordinance. ;D ;D ;D Then good luck with that one. ;D ;D ;D
A civilian is a civilian when it comes to propaganda, it doesn't matter if they work as a cleaner, cook, or whatever or just in the vicinity in the wrong place at the wrong time, their death will still be used to paint the West as having worse standards than the enemies. :(
Now back to the real subject of this thread:
You are so right on that one Rod. It has been the case in almost, if not all, the wars of the twentieth century and is still the case now. The propaganda made by all sides with the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (MH17/MAS17) over the Ukrains / Russian border is a 21st century example. Now Syrian civilians are being used as the propaganda pawns around Mosul. The propaganda nowadays spreads to the internet for extra impact. This is a good example of it:
www.iamsyria.org/death-tolls.html
So 525,000 killed, including 55,000 children, and look who they are blaming. What is THE truth though. We shall not know, if other conflicts are a guide, until the history is researched in years to come.
Can this situation ever change whilst conflict goes on? I doubt it. :'( :'(
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Now back to the real subject of this thread:
You are so right on that one Rod. It has been the case in almost, if not all, the wars of the twentieth century and is still the case now. The propaganda made by all sides with the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (MH17/MAS17) over the Ukrains / Russian border is a 21st century example. Now Syrian civilians are being used as the propaganda pawns around Mosul. The propaganda nowadays spreads to the internet for extra impact. This is a good example of it:
www.iamsyria.org/death-tolls.html
So 525,000 killed, including 55,000 children, and look who they are blaming. What is THE truth though. We shall not know, if other conflicts are a guide, until the history is researched in years to come.
Can this situation ever change whilst conflict goes on? I doubt it. :'( :'(
Not only propaganda but also Russian 'agitprop' or 'active measures' along with cyber-warfare. The Russians are currently by far the best in the world at this and where I follow the Russian invasion and war closely in Ukraine, I have learn't much and also to a lessor extent from Syria. The Ukrainians have been subject to the full suit of these Russian tactics. Everything from funding fridge nationalist parties, paying people to cause problems (that went badly wrong in Odessa), terrorist attacks including civilians in Kharkiv, 'wetwork' with the recent killing of a former Russian MP in Kyiv an example, not to mention cyber attacks which have shutdown a power station and sections of their national grid twice. They have also deployed a full suit of economic measures, which range from confiscating Ukrainian factories on Russian soil, to banning the import of most Ukrainian produce to literally using their 'aid white lorries' to dismantle whole factories in the Donbas and exporting them to Russia.
This is an example of their current 'active measures':
https://jamestown.org/program/russian-disinformation-pervades-central-eastern-europe/ (https://jamestown.org/program/russian-disinformation-pervades-central-eastern-europe/)
The other side of the coin is that Russia has failed on all of their political objectives since taking Crimea, with their invasion of the Donbas and trying to break Ukraine economically and politically. Ukraine have switched to exporting much more to Europe and worldwide, so after a post-2014 sharp painful recession, their economy is now growing and the growth is accelerating.
Although their is still an active war being imposed on Ukraine by Russian with an average of one Ukrainian KIA and several WIA virtually everyday, this active engagement is far from one sided with Russia suffering (classed by them as secret) causalities as well. The Ukrainian SBU have also had their hacking successes with the Glazyev Tapes and Surkov leaks.
http://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_the_glazyev_tapes_getting_to_the_root_of_the_conflict_in_7165 (http://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_the_glazyev_tapes_getting_to_the_root_of_the_conflict_in_7165)
https://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russia/andreas-umland/glazyevs-tapes (https://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russia/andreas-umland/glazyevs-tapes)
Although Russia denies the authenticity of the leaks it looks like there has been a purge in the FSB as a result, in much the same way as there has after the Christopher Steele, Trump dossier (more and more of which is now being independently verified).
https://informnapalm.org/en/cyberwar-purges-in-russian-cybersecurity-could-be-connected-to-surkovleaks/ (https://informnapalm.org/en/cyberwar-purges-in-russian-cybersecurity-could-be-connected-to-surkovleaks/)
I could just keep writing on this and other current things, like Russian 'active measures' to get Trump elected. There is much good information out there but also many disinformation 'fake news' websites, which means I tend to stick to top accredited academics, with most names start with 'Professor', proven journalists and people I have got to know over time and can I verify from multiple sources that what they say is factual.
NATO countries are closely studying the war in Ukraine and Syria to learn about modern Russian tactics and capabilities. Western post-1991 complacency is learning some hard lessons, hence the US urgent upgrade program to add reactive armour to M1 Abrams tanks. I suspect there is also an emergency TOW missile upgrade program as (Saudi supplied ones) have failed to penetrate T90 armour when used by the Free Syrian Army. UK Challenger tanks and munitions are also in urgent need of upgrading if they are going to be of any use in future conflicts.
Lizzie if you want a list of good Twitter geopolitical, political, intelligence and journalist accounts worth following then let me know.
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Now back to the real subject of this thread:
You are so right on that one Rod. It has been the case in almost, if not all, the wars of the twentieth century and is still the case now. The propaganda made by all sides with the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (MH17/MAS17) over the Ukrains / Russian border is a 21st century example. Now Syrian civilians are being used as the propaganda pawns around Mosul. The propaganda nowadays spreads to the internet for extra impact. This is a good example of it:
www.iamsyria.org/death-tolls.html
So 525,000 killed, including 55,000 children, and look who they are blaming. What is THE truth though. We shall not know, if other conflicts are a guide, until the history is researched in years to come.
Can this situation ever change whilst conflict goes on? I doubt it. :'( :'(
Not only propaganda but also Russian 'agitprop' or 'active measures' along with cyber-warfare. The Russians are currently by far the best in the world at this and where I follow the Russian invasion and war closely in Ukraine, I have learn't much and also to a lessor extent from Syria. The Ukrainians have been subject to the full suit of these Russian tactics. Everything from funding fridge nationalist parties, paying people to cause problems (that went badly wrong in Odessa), terrorist attacks including civilians in Kharkiv, 'wetwork' with the recent killing of a former Russian MP in Kyiv an example, not to mention cyber attacks which have shutdown a power station and sections of their national grid twice. They have also deployed a full suit of economic measures, which range from confiscating Ukrainian factories on Russian soil, to banning the import of most Ukrainian produce to literally using their 'aid white lorries' to dismantle whole factories in the Donbas and exporting them to Russia.
This is an example of their current 'active measures':
https://jamestown.org/program/russian-disinformation-pervades-central-eastern-europe/ (https://jamestown.org/program/russian-disinformation-pervades-central-eastern-europe/)
The other side of the coin is that Russia has failed on all of their political objectives since taking Crimea, with their invasion of the Donbas and trying to break Ukraine economically and politically. Ukraine have switched to exporting much more to Europe and worldwide, so after a post-2014 sharp painful recession, their economy is now growing and the growth is accelerating.
Although their is still an active war being imposed on Ukraine by Russian with an average of one Ukrainian KIA and several WIA virtually everyday, this active engagement is far from one sided with Russia suffering (classed by them as secret) causalities as well. The Ukrainian SBU have also had their hacking successes with the Glazyev Tapes and Surkov leaks.
http://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_the_glazyev_tapes_getting_to_the_root_of_the_conflict_in_7165 (http://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_the_glazyev_tapes_getting_to_the_root_of_the_conflict_in_7165)
https://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russia/andreas-umland/glazyevs-tapes (https://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russia/andreas-umland/glazyevs-tapes)
Although Russia denies the authenticity of the leaks it looks like there has been a purge in the FSB as a result, in much the same way as there has after the Christopher Steele, Trump dossier (more and more of which is now being independently verified).
https://informnapalm.org/en/cyberwar-purges-in-russian-cybersecurity-could-be-connected-to-surkovleaks/ (https://informnapalm.org/en/cyberwar-purges-in-russian-cybersecurity-could-be-connected-to-surkovleaks/)
I could just keep writing on this and other current things, like Russian 'active measures' to get Trump elected. There is much good information out there but also many disinformation 'fake news' websites, which means I tend to stick to top accredited academics, with most names start with 'Professor', proven journalists and people I have got to know over time and can I verify from multiple sources that what they say is factual.
NATO countries are closely studying the war in Ukraine and Syria to learn about modern Russian tactics and capabilities. Western post-1991 complacency is learning some hard lessons, hence the US urgent upgrade program to add reactive armour to M1 Abrams tanks. I suspect there is also an emergency TOW missile upgrade program as (Saudi supplied ones) have failed to penetrate T90 armour when used by the Free Syrian Army. UK Challenger tanks and munitions are also in urgent need of upgrading if they are going to be of any use in future conflicts.
Lizzie if you want a list of good Twitter geopolitical, political, intelligence and journalist accounts worth following then let me know.
Wow, you certainly know your field of expertise Rod. That is one great summary :y :y
As I understand we do not build any new tanks in the UK, with Vickers losing the contract years ago, so how can the British army equip themselves with the latest British design, or even upgrade their existing ones? Will our army have to resort to buying Abrahams in future? For the land that invented the tank I feel it a poor show.
Thanks for the invite of further sources of info, but at the moment I will stick to reading your great reports :y
I will stick to European history ;D ;D
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.........I will now go through the links you supplied, but it will take a few hours to absorb what is a very complex picture of Russian politics ;)
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Now i may be wrong here Lizzie, but, isn,t Mosul in Iraq, not Syria? ???
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Now i may be wrong here Lizzie, but, isn,t Mosul in Iraq, not Syria? ???
Ah, you noticed! Well spotted :-[ :-[ :-[
Yes I meant to say Iraqi civilians, but by the time I noticed my mistake I ran out of time to amend :D :D :y
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Now i may be wrong here Lizzie, but, isn,t Mosul in Iraq, not Syria? ???
Ah, you noticed! Well spotted :-[ :-[ :-[
Yes I meant to say Iraqi civilians, but by the time I noticed my mistake I ran out of time to amend :D :D :y
:y
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A few posts trimmed in an attempt to address some of the back stabbing and irrelevant digs
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A few posts trimmed in an attempt to address some of the back stabbing and irrelevant digs
What's gen disrespect without back stabbing and irrelevant digs? ;D
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A few posts trimmed in an attempt to address some of the back stabbing and irrelevant digs
What's gen disrespect without back stabbing and irrelevant digs? ;D
Don't worry STEMO, none of our posts seem to have been "trimmed" ;D ;D ;D ;)
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A few posts trimmed in an attempt to address some of the back stabbing and irrelevant digs
What's gen disrespect without back stabbing and irrelevant digs? ;D
Don't worry STEMO, none of our posts seem to have been "trimmed" ;D ;D ;D ;)
Actually, the only one missing is the one where I suggested that you went forth... ::)
But never let the facts spoil an opportunity for a snide remark :-X
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Anyways...
Syria, a shit sandwich... available with any bread you choose ;)
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A few posts trimmed in an attempt to address some of the back stabbing and irrelevant digs
t
What's gen disrespect without back stabbing and irrelevant digs? ;D
Don't worry STEMO, none of our posts seem to have been "trimmed" ;D ;D ;D ;)
Actually, the only one missing is the one where I suggested that you went forth... ::)
But never let the facts spoil an opportunity for a snide remark :-X
I was actually putting a funny side onto it all as I'm moving on. I do not favour snide remarks so would not use them. I was trying to be friendly with STEMO and it had nothing to do with you. :y
You have told me though something I didn't know; what had been trimmed ;D ;)
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Every day's a School day.