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Author Topic: Oh no, what have I done .... ?  (Read 34690 times)

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jonny2112

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Re: Oh no, what have I done .... ?
« Reply #225 on: 19 October 2012, 20:19:21 »

Thanks Andy. I did remove the main plug at the rear rather than each injector. In hindsight you're probably right, and it may have been easier. I've had the plenum off numerous times, and the bagpipes, aux belt, etc. I've only had the inlet off a few times and I really don't want to do it again!
It's not that difficult or anything. It just gets on my nerves  :D
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05omegav6

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Re: Oh no, what have I done .... ?
« Reply #226 on: 19 October 2012, 21:30:35 »

A spark is not enough. Listen to what Mark is saying...

My car had several misfire issues which were eventually sorted, more or less with a new loom.

BUT, and it's a big one,

The only thing that testing, including Tech 2 could find was that one coil, in my case pot 6, was producing 40,000 volts instead of 60,000 volts.

Try Marks suggestion, first at 10mm, then 20mm, then 30mm, and finally at 40mm. Do this for each and every HT terminal. If one, or more struggles to produce a spark at 30 or 40mm, then you'll be able to see it :y as the weaker coils won't produce a spark strong enough to bridge the air gap...
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jonny2112

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Re: Oh no, what have I done .... ?
« Reply #227 on: 19 October 2012, 22:00:02 »

Mmm. I inserted a screw into each boot, and using an insulated screwdriver, got no spark. Visible or otherwise. In a change of tact I swapped the screwdriver for one of those circuit testing ones. I know I shouldn't have. On each of the drivers bank plugs I felt the shock as I approached the screw. I didn't see it, but perhaps I had not created the right conditions.
Obviously this is not sufficient then, so back to the drawing board.
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Tim11111

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Re: Oh no, what have I done .... ?
« Reply #228 on: 19 October 2012, 22:43:51 »

Make sure you are following Mark's suggestion correctly. The screwdriver shaft (or screw if that's what you're using) needs to have a gap for the spark to jump - the other side of the gap must be a metallic object that is earthed.

Doesn't sound like you've got that side earthed. Quick basics of electricity for you - electricity will always find the quickest route to earth, which is usually through the circuit designed for it which will be earthed. If however the energy is sufficient the electricity will instead arc to a nearby object if that is it's closest & quickest route to earth. This arcing is what will cause a visible spark. This is why you should never enter a high voltage substation, as at 400,000V there is enough energy for it to arc over 3m through the air to use your body as it's quickest route to earth resulting in one charred body for someone to clear up!

What you are trying to achieve by earthing is to tempt the electricity to arc showing you a spark. If you are using an insulated screwdriver, there is no route to earth for the electricity hence no spark. Further to this, Al's suggestion to try different distances will give you an idea of the energy in that spark. If it sparks at 10mm but not any further this may suggest there is not enough energy to arc the distance, and if the others do arc further this may point out a coil that is weaker.

Sounds like when you used the circuit testing screwdriver, you became it's route to earth hence the shock you got. Suggest you set it up so you can view the spark in the gap without physically touching anything to avoid any further shocks.

Hope that helps (and I'm not teaching you to suck eggs).
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jonny2112

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Re: Oh no, what have I done .... ?
« Reply #229 on: 19 October 2012, 23:20:25 »

Hope that helps (and I'm not teaching you to suck eggs).

Yes it does, and no you're not. Any help very much appreciated  :y

Under these circumstances, how would you do it? There is very little play on the connection so the position of the coil pack is virtually dictated. Any guidance welcome.
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albitz

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Re: Oh no, what have I done .... ?
« Reply #230 on: 19 October 2012, 23:43:52 »

I did something like this to test the spark on my bike engine years ago.I got a pice of plywood around 75mm square.Cut a hole around 45mm in dia in the centre,then hammered a long nail in from each side until the end of each nail protruded through the hole and they were a set distance (about 30mm in this case) apart.Then attach a wire to the other end of one of the nails and ran it into th plug cap (jammed in there with a screwdriver or piece of wood,cant remember tbh).Anyway - when the engine is turned over you then get a spark arcing between the pointed ends of the nails.
That probably sounds like gobbledegook in written form but it worked.
Btw Jonny,did the bolts arrive ok ?
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jonny2112

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Re: Oh no, what have I done .... ?
« Reply #231 on: 20 October 2012, 00:06:59 »

Btw Jonny,did the bolts arrive ok ?

Sorry mate, yes they did. I totally forgot to let you know, apologies  :-[

And thanks for that, I'll have to have a think!!
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albitz

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Re: Oh no, what have I done .... ?
« Reply #232 on: 20 October 2012, 00:16:21 »

Not a problem mate,I know you have a lot on your plate at the moment. :y
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jonny2112

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Re: Oh no, what have I done .... ?
« Reply #233 on: 20 October 2012, 14:35:05 »

Rigged up a device to test the spark and nipped out to the car. When I'd got home this morning I found the stereo was on, so guess what? Now the battery's flat  >:(
And so is the booster  >:(.

Aaaghh!

Will have to wait for it to charge up, and hope it'll be enough to start it. Might have to replace the coil though to ensure it fires ........
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Andy H

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Re: Oh no, what have I done .... ?
« Reply #234 on: 20 October 2012, 17:55:54 »

Thanks Andy. I did remove the main plug at the rear rather than each injector. In hindsight you're probably right, and it may have been easier. I've had the plenum off numerous times, and the bagpipes, aux belt, etc. I've only had the inlet off a few times and I really don't want to do it again!
It's not that difficult or anything. It just gets on my nerves  :D
Is there a chance that any injector plugs became dislodged while you were getting the bolts out?

People are (quite rightly) discussing ways of checking for sparks but a lack of fuel would also cause a misfire. (that said I suspect the 2.6 ECU would probably report "injector low voltage" for any injector that wasn't connected)
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"Deja Moo - The feeling that you've heard this bull somewhere before."

jonny2112

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Re: Oh no, what have I done .... ?
« Reply #235 on: 20 October 2012, 18:52:24 »

OMG!!
Fully charged booster never looked near it. Lights on dash, turned the key and ..... Nothing  >:(
Put the battery on charge for about two hours, and still nothing  >:(
I'm at work now so will put the charger back on in the morning and it'll probably get a good 4 or 5 hours worth. I'm hoping that'll be enough to get her going again.
The stereo might have been on for a maximum of 10 hours, but I thought the booster would have sorted it. Hope I'm not going to need a new battery on top of everything else, ffs  :'(

Oh, and thanks Andy. I'll be checking the individual injectors too  :y
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omega3000

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Re: Oh no, what have I done .... ?
« Reply #236 on: 20 October 2012, 19:32:13 »

It must be a real nightmare you trying to sort this out  :( really hope you can get to the bottom of it after all the effort you have put in jonny .
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05omegav6

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Re: Oh no, what have I done .... ?
« Reply #237 on: 20 October 2012, 19:38:21 »

When you test the coil packs, bear in mind that the Plenum/Inlet Manifold is NOT earthed :y

Made that mistake before :-[
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jonny2112

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Re: Oh no, what have I done .... ?
« Reply #238 on: 20 October 2012, 19:50:33 »

It must be a real nightmare you trying to sort this out  :( really hope you can get to the bottom of it after all the effort you have put in jonny .

Thanks mate  :y
I know we'll get there, it's just taking so long  :(
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jonny2112

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Re: Oh no, what have I done .... ?
« Reply #239 on: 20 October 2012, 19:52:29 »

When you test the coil packs, bear in mind that the Plenum/Inlet Manifold is NOT earthed :y

Made that mistake before :-[

That's appreciated al as I had considered it  ::)
In the end I went down the Albitz route, but I wasn't even able to see if it was going to work  :-X
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