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[cem_devecioglu]

The trouble is Pete, that had they been able to operate effectively, then they would never have cost the taxpayers of the time so much money. In the end, selling them off to the highest bidder was the only way to stem those costs. Shutting the stable door behind the horse perhaps, but summat had to give

think of an organisation that is a monopoly in its area.. some famous Thatcher copies here sell them for the reason that they cant make profit..   how could this be..    even kids wont believe this lie.. and so many other things..
 
is it the correct way to sell something so valuable to community instead of restructuring and re-organisation.. and then later pump the taxpayers more money to some lucky relative individuals..  for that privatisation subject,  whoever says anything I'll be completely deaf..

Really Cem, you had to be there.  The nationalised industries were a standing joke, not just for the way they were so inefficiently run and bleeding money down the drain, but for the pathetic levels of service they provided.  Nickbat already gave some examples of that, and somebody else has also pointed out how we had to go on a waiting list to have a phone installed (and even then, we may have had to share the line with a neighbour).  And there was no option but to deal with these monopolies.  Just to stick with the phone example, it was illegal - yes, actually illegal - to connect a device to the telephone network that was not provided by the GPO, and those devices (telephones and answering machines) were rented to the user as it was impossible to buy any privately.

Monopolies should make huge profits, but although it is hard for you to believe, the British nationalised industries didn't (or at least, I can't think of any that did - electricity, gas, coal, steel, railways, ship building, post, telecommunications, buses).  They were funded by the taxpayer, which meant there was no incentive to operate efficiently as they had almost limitless access funds whenever they needed it.

The world, and especially Britain, was a very different place in the 1970's from what it is today.  I would say that the world today is very different from what it would have been if Margaret Thatcher had not come along.

Jimac, thanks for your effort to explain.. just consider this scenario..
 
a rich arab with a long digit bank account comes one day.. pays the money and buys all of your already privatised assets for their double value..  none of the owners will object.. as profit is the primary goal.. and the next day quadruples all the prices from telecom to steel, oil to health, harbors to transportation, water to electricity etc etc..  and with all that power the second day he will declare himself to be the master.. 3rd day you will be foreigners in your country.. will you accept that ?
 
of course my example is a bit exaggerated but the truth actually not far from that unfortunately..
 
here there are lots of threads and posts that members mentioning that your country not same as before..
 
please stay and think about that..
 
ps: my people were also lied in the same style , many things happened.. and after an earth quake in year 1999,
all communications and transportation stopped.. and everyone was asking for the state.. where are they..
sadly it was buried some time ago by the privatisation.. and the results were a disaster..
 
there was a massive need for loaders to open the roads.. here in my city there were thousands of them sleeping at a park because they were all private.. and none of the owners take responsibnility and tried to help..

people in those collapsed homes clean the rubbles with bare hand
 
so please no one tries to convince me with the same story..

Maybe not Cem, but our government would through the Monopolies Commission that would stop that move in it's tracks.   

There must be competition in our capitalist democracy

Lizzie,  actually there is no capitalist system which includes democracy
 
same ours.. you/we play the game of voting..  and some play the game of politicians but winners are always behind the scene whoever wins the game of voting
 
and dont forget who assigns the persons in your monopoly comission..
 
and more than that your biggest monopoly is Bank of England which doesnt belong to the public

[Lizzie_Zoom]

The trouble is Pete, that had they been able to operate effectively, then they would never have cost the taxpayers of the time so much money. In the end, selling them off to the highest bidder was the only way to stem those costs. Shutting the stable door behind the horse perhaps, but summat had to give

think of an organisation that is a monopoly in its area.. some famous Thatcher copies here sell them for the reason that they cant make profit..   how could this be..    even kids wont believe this lie.. and so many other things..
 
is it the correct way to sell something so valuable to community instead of restructuring and re-organisation.. and then later pump the taxpayers more money to some lucky relative individuals..  for that privatisation subject,  whoever says anything I'll be completely deaf..

Really Cem, you had to be there.  The nationalised industries were a standing joke, not just for the way they were so inefficiently run and bleeding money down the drain, but for the pathetic levels of service they provided.  Nickbat already gave some examples of that, and somebody else has also pointed out how we had to go on a waiting list to have a phone installed (and even then, we may have had to share the line with a neighbour).  And there was no option but to deal with these monopolies.  Just to stick with the phone example, it was illegal - yes, actually illegal - to connect a device to the telephone network that was not provided by the GPO, and those devices (telephones and answering machines) were rented to the user as it was impossible to buy any privately.

Monopolies should make huge profits, but although it is hard for you to believe, the British nationalised industries didn't (or at least, I can't think of any that did - electricity, gas, coal, steel, railways, ship building, post, telecommunications, buses).  They were funded by the taxpayer, which meant there was no incentive to operate efficiently as they had almost limitless access funds whenever they needed it.

The world, and especially Britain, was a very different place in the 1970's from what it is today.  I would say that the world today is very different from what it would have been if Margaret Thatcher had not come along.

Jimac, thanks for your effort to explain.. just consider this scenario..
 
a rich arab with a long digit bank account comes one day.. pays the money and buys all of your already privatised assets for their double value..  none of the owners will object.. as profit is the primary goal.. and the next day quadruples all the prices from telecom to steel, oil to health, harbors to transportation, water to electricity etc etc..  and with all that power the second day he will declare himself to be the master.. 3rd day you will be foreigners in your country.. will you accept that ?
 
of course my example is a bit exaggerated but the truth actually not far from that unfortunately..
 
here there are lots of threads and posts that members mentioning that your country not same as before..
 
please stay and think about that..
 
ps: my people were also lied in the same style , many things happened.. and after an earth quake in year 1999,
all communications and transportation stopped.. and everyone was asking for the state.. where are they..
sadly it was buried some time ago by the privatisation.. and the results were a disaster..
 
there was a massive need for loaders to open the roads.. here in my city there were thousands of them sleeping at a park because they were all private.. and none of the owners take responsibnility and tried to help..

people in those collapsed homes clean the rubbles with bare hand
 
so please no one tries to convince me with the same story..

Maybe not Cem, but our government would through the Monopolies Commission that would stop that move in it's tracks.   

There must be competition in our capitalist democracy

Lizzie,  actually there is no capitalist system which includes democracy
 
same ours.. you/we play the game of voting..  and some play the game of politicians but winners are always behind the scene whoever wins the game of voting
 
and dont forget who assigns the persons in your monopoly comission..
 
and more than that your biggest monopoly is Bank of England which doesnt belong to the public

In Britain actually there is. Not perfect, but a better system has yet to be found.

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

Winston Churchill. House of Commons speech on Nov. 11, 1947)

The Bank of England is under the best control of all.............the financial market.  Away from direct political influence it is in a better state than it was before it was freed from clumsy, muddling, politicians!

[cem_devecioglu]

The trouble is Pete, that had they been able to operate effectively, then they would never have cost the taxpayers of the time so much money. In the end, selling them off to the highest bidder was the only way to stem those costs. Shutting the stable door behind the horse perhaps, but summat had to give

think of an organisation that is a monopoly in its area.. some famous Thatcher copies here sell them for the reason that they cant make profit..   how could this be..    even kids wont believe this lie.. and so many other things..
 
is it the correct way to sell something so valuable to community instead of restructuring and re-organisation.. and then later pump the taxpayers more money to some lucky relative individuals..  for that privatisation subject,  whoever says anything I'll be completely deaf..

Really Cem, you had to be there.  The nationalised industries were a standing joke, not just for the way they were so inefficiently run and bleeding money down the drain, but for the pathetic levels of service they provided.  Nickbat already gave some examples of that, and somebody else has also pointed out how we had to go on a waiting list to have a phone installed (and even then, we may have had to share the line with a neighbour).  And there was no option but to deal with these monopolies.  Just to stick with the phone example, it was illegal - yes, actually illegal - to connect a device to the telephone network that was not provided by the GPO, and those devices (telephones and answering machines) were rented to the user as it was impossible to buy any privately.

Monopolies should make huge profits, but although it is hard for you to believe, the British nationalised industries didn't (or at least, I can't think of any that did - electricity, gas, coal, steel, railways, ship building, post, telecommunications, buses).  They were funded by the taxpayer, which meant there was no incentive to operate efficiently as they had almost limitless access funds whenever they needed it.

The world, and especially Britain, was a very different place in the 1970's from what it is today.  I would say that the world today is very different from what it would have been if Margaret Thatcher had not come along.

Jimac, thanks for your effort to explain.. just consider this scenario..
 
a rich arab with a long digit bank account comes one day.. pays the money and buys all of your already privatised assets for their double value..  none of the owners will object.. as profit is the primary goal.. and the next day quadruples all the prices from telecom to steel, oil to health, harbors to transportation, water to electricity etc etc..  and with all that power the second day he will declare himself to be the master.. 3rd day you will be foreigners in your country.. will you accept that ?
 
of course my example is a bit exaggerated but the truth actually not far from that unfortunately..
 
here there are lots of threads and posts that members mentioning that your country not same as before..
 
please stay and think about that..
 
ps: my people were also lied in the same style , many things happened.. and after an earth quake in year 1999,
all communications and transportation stopped.. and everyone was asking for the state.. where are they..
sadly it was buried some time ago by the privatisation.. and the results were a disaster..
 
there was a massive need for loaders to open the roads.. here in my city there were thousands of them sleeping at a park because they were all private.. and none of the owners take responsibnility and tried to help..

people in those collapsed homes clean the rubbles with bare hand
 
so please no one tries to convince me with the same story..

Maybe not Cem, but our government would through the Monopolies Commission that would stop that move in it's tracks.   

There must be competition in our capitalist democracy

Lizzie,  actually there is no capitalist system which includes democracy
 
same ours.. you/we play the game of voting..  and some play the game of politicians but winners are always behind the scene whoever wins the game of voting
 
and dont forget who assigns the persons in your monopoly comission..
 
and more than that your biggest monopoly is Bank of England which doesnt belong to the public

In Britain actually there is. Not perfect, but a better system has yet to be found.

The Bank of England is under the best control of all.............the financial market.  Away from direct political influence it is in a better state than it was before it was freed from clumsy, muddling, politicians!

Lizzie, you are a historian .. just scan your memory , you will find better systems than the one currently

[TheBoy]

cem, its probably difficult to explain, as you have little/no experience of the civil service, and how it runs.  I'm sure the Turkish ones are dire as well, but I doubt to anywhere near the level.

If you can find it on youtube, I suggest watching the 1980s comedy "Yes Minister" and "Yes Prime Minister" with Paull Eddington (not the new series from 2012).  Sadly, not only is this worryingly close of how everything was bottom-up and inefficient, it shows how things never got changed.  Its quite an amusing programme anyway, though when you realise how close it was....


I worked for the national telco here, British Telecom when I started, now BT. Its one of the privatised (under Thatcher) utilities. Its also one of the utilities, despite the best efforts of OFCOM, formerly OFTEL, where competition has been effective. Look how (real term) costs to customers have dropped, and the service has improved in unthinkable orders of magnitude.

The energy privatisations haven't worked. I rather useless regulator (civil servents) coupled with an unrealistic pricing method.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

The trouble is Pete, that had they been able to operate effectively, then they would never have cost the taxpayers of the time so much money. In the end, selling them off to the highest bidder was the only way to stem those costs. Shutting the stable door behind the horse perhaps, but summat had to give

think of an organisation that is a monopoly in its area.. some famous Thatcher copies here sell them for the reason that they cant make profit..   how could this be..    even kids wont believe this lie.. and so many other things..
 
is it the correct way to sell something so valuable to community instead of restructuring and re-organisation.. and then later pump the taxpayers more money to some lucky relative individuals..  for that privatisation subject,  whoever says anything I'll be completely deaf..

Really Cem, you had to be there.  The nationalised industries were a standing joke, not just for the way they were so inefficiently run and bleeding money down the drain, but for the pathetic levels of service they provided.  Nickbat already gave some examples of that, and somebody else has also pointed out how we had to go on a waiting list to have a phone installed (and even then, we may have had to share the line with a neighbour).  And there was no option but to deal with these monopolies.  Just to stick with the phone example, it was illegal - yes, actually illegal - to connect a device to the telephone network that was not provided by the GPO, and those devices (telephones and answering machines) were rented to the user as it was impossible to buy any privately.

Monopolies should make huge profits, but although it is hard for you to believe, the British nationalised industries didn't (or at least, I can't think of any that did - electricity, gas, coal, steel, railways, ship building, post, telecommunications, buses).  They were funded by the taxpayer, which meant there was no incentive to operate efficiently as they had almost limitless access funds whenever they needed it.

The world, and especially Britain, was a very different place in the 1970's from what it is today.  I would say that the world today is very different from what it would have been if Margaret Thatcher had not come along.

Jimac, thanks for your effort to explain.. just consider this scenario..
 
a rich arab with a long digit bank account comes one day.. pays the money and buys all of your already privatised assets for their double value..  none of the owners will object.. as profit is the primary goal.. and the next day quadruples all the prices from telecom to steel, oil to health, harbors to transportation, water to electricity etc etc..  and with all that power the second day he will declare himself to be the master.. 3rd day you will be foreigners in your country.. will you accept that ?
 
of course my example is a bit exaggerated but the truth actually not far from that unfortunately..
 
here there are lots of threads and posts that members mentioning that your country not same as before..
 
please stay and think about that..
 
ps: my people were also lied in the same style , many things happened.. and after an earth quake in year 1999,
all communications and transportation stopped.. and everyone was asking for the state.. where are they..
sadly it was buried some time ago by the privatisation.. and the results were a disaster..
 
there was a massive need for loaders to open the roads.. here in my city there were thousands of them sleeping at a park because they were all private.. and none of the owners take responsibnility and tried to help..

people in those collapsed homes clean the rubbles with bare hand
 
so please no one tries to convince me with the same story..

Maybe not Cem, but our government would through the Monopolies Commission that would stop that move in it's tracks.   

There must be competition in our capitalist democracy

Lizzie,  actually there is no capitalist system which includes democracy
 
same ours.. you/we play the game of voting..  and some play the game of politicians but winners are always behind the scene whoever wins the game of voting
 
and dont forget who assigns the persons in your monopoly comission..
 
and more than that your biggest monopoly is Bank of England which doesnt belong to the public

In Britain actually there is. Not perfect, but a better system has yet to be found.

The Bank of England is under the best control of all.............the financial market.  Away from direct political influence it is in a better state than it was before it was freed from clumsy, muddling, politicians!

Lizzie, you are a historian .. just scan your memory , you will find better systems than the one currently

Nope, and the Great Man agreed (see my addition to the last post) and although made back in 1947, it in my view still holds good.  Tell us Cem of a better one for the people and the country?

[cem_devecioglu]

cem, its probably difficult to explain, as you have little/no experience of the civil service, and how it runs.  I'm sure the Turkish ones are dire as well, but I doubt to anywhere near the level.

If you can find it on youtube, I suggest watching the 1980s comedy "Yes Minister" and "Yes Prime Minister" with Paull Eddington (not the new series from 2012).  Sadly, not only is this worryingly close of how everything was bottom-up and inefficient, it shows how things never got changed.  Its quite an amusing programme anyway, though when you realise how close it was....


I worked for the national telco here, British Telecom when I started, now BT. Its one of the privatised (under Thatcher) utilities. Its also one of the utilities, despite the best efforts of OFCOM, formerly OFTEL, where competition has been effective. Look how (real term) costs to customers have dropped, and the service has improved in unthinkable orders of magnitude.

The energy privatisations haven't worked. I rather useless regulator (civil servents) coupled with an unrealistic pricing method.

I have watched it at the time    although I hardly remember it.. iirc , it played on our govt TV channel. was quality

[Kevin Wood]

...we had to go on a waiting list to have a phone installed (and even then, we may have had to share the line with a neighbour).

Oh, I remember that from my childhood. (And some of their daughter's conversations which were accidentally interrupted)     

[TheBoy]

...we had to go on a waiting list to have a phone installed (and even then, we may have had to share the line with a neighbour).

Oh, I remember that from my childhood. (And some of their daughter's conversations which were accidentally interrupted)     

Indeed, the old party lines. And when you couldn't get a dial tone, go piss on the earth spike....  ....or by the time I was a telephone engineer, remind customers to water their lines....

[STMO123]

...we had to go on a waiting list to have a phone installed (and even then, we may have had to share the line with a neighbour).

Oh, I remember that from my childhood. (And some of their daughter's conversations which were accidentally interrupted)     

Indeed, the old party lines. And when you couldn't get a dial tone, go piss on the earth spike....  ....or by the time I was a telephone engineer, remind customers to water their lines....

Party line in America maybe. Over here it was shared service.

[cem_devecioglu]

I shared long posts from your economical history when debating with Entwood.. I'll post the thread link if I can find Lizzie..
 
ps:our posts were too long to quote

[Sir Tigger KC]

....... there was no option but to deal with these monopolies.  Just to stick with the phone example, it was illegal - yes, actually illegal - to connect a device to the telephone network that was not provided by the GPO, and those devices (telephones and answering machines) were rented to the user as it was impossible to buy any privately.

Yes, I can remember seeing telephones for sale for the first time in the likes of Dixons and Currys and it seemed really weird!!  I think people didn't think they'd work because they didn't come from the GPO or British Telecom whichever it was called at the time!!! 

I agree with what Varche said earlier about reconvening parliament today.  What a waste of money when they could have paid their respects on Monday! Wherever Thatcher is right now I bet she's steaming about that!!! 

I fully expect the funeral next week to be eventful..... 

[albitz]

Its quite traditional for parliament to be recalled when a former PM dies.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Its quite traditional for parliament to be recalled when a former PM dies.

OK Fair enough I didn't know that......      being a youngster and all.... 

[cem_devecioglu]

Nope, and the Great Man agreed (see my addition to the last post) and although made back in 1947, it in my view still holds good.  Tell us Cem of a better one for the people and the country?

here is the related link Lizzie and there is a related youtube video
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=112022.15

[Varche]

Its quite traditional for parliament to be recalled when a former PM dies.

Still a waste of taxpayers money. So many bills to get through and so little time. Yes she was a great leader but remember her next Wednesday not by frittering away valuable Parliamentary time. The only timne to reconvene Parliament should be for the death of the Monarch or war.