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[Doctor Gollum]

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2017/01/chevrolet-caprice-ppv-will-expire-this-year-no-direct-replacement-planned/

Have a read down the comments... There's a suggestion a ways down the page that GM could have Buick as it's global car brand...

[anV6]

I thought the VXR8 was available with both manual and auto since the HSV counterpart is.

But it doesn't matter. GM is very unfortunately killing the Holden Commordore this year. It wont even make it to the end of the year. So the HSV versions which are based on the Commodore will die too. The VXR8 is just a rebadged HSV so this is the last year for the VXR8 too. As you see, your proposed car would not compete with the VXR8.

Once the Commodore is gone, and I believe the Falcon is gone too or will be soon, we will be starved for RWD 4 door larger super saloons with a manual transmission. Specially now that even BMW sold out and is dropping the manual gearbox option for the M5. And M6 for that matter. So the only larger 4 door super saloon with a manual option will be the Jaguar XF-R. But if even BMW sold out, how long will it take for Jaguar to stop too, if they haven't already?

We desperately need a 4 door larger super saloon with a manual gearbox. We have so many already with an auto box. Don't need yet another one IMO.

Nobody needs one at all,[/b] let alone desperately. A 1.0l Corsa would be good for probably 90% of my motoring needs.There are good reasons for most big power engines having auto boxes bolted to them; that most buyers prefer them is one(look at how few manual V8 BMWs, or recent Porsches there are), and that manual boxes that can reliably handle the power are generally best described as agricultural.

Well, I guess it's only safe to speak for yourself. Hence why on my post I added IMO. 

Fact is, there are people who like to enjoy driving their own cars and yes, shifting. Just look online. I know several personally. Pretty much everybody I know or hang around with, besides some old timers friends with my in-law.

It is also a very regional thing. The U.S. and the UK are at the top of not wanting to bother to shift their own cars. Continental Europe, not really. This is why for example the U.S. and UK do not get the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio in manual, while continental Europe does. Because people still appreciate and buy manuals here.

There may not be enough people to justify every single one being available in manual. After all most like what is easier, regardless of what. But there are still enough enthusiasts to warrant special or selected models to be sold in manual.

[anV6]

We will see driverless car swamping the roads in our lifetime. This is apparently the future. Manufacturers are concentrating their R&D on this kind of shite and have no interest making cars for enthusiasts who actually enjoy the experience of driving their products.
We are the last generation of humans who have the freedom to get in our cars and drive them how we want, albeit possibly suffering the legal consequences if we are caught breaking the rules.
Meanwhile, the news today said the speed limit on the M1 is being cut to 60mph in the name of saving the polar bears or some other such nonsense.
Expect the rest of the motorway network to follow suit in the foreseeable future.
The future is bleak I'm afraid.

Yes, unfortunately you are right. It looks bleak indeed. 

[Pmacca2000]

Is the VXR8 7 speed though?
I'm saying 7 speed thinking it may help efficacy (mpg) and won't give the car the urgency or sporty feel of the VXR8 unless provoked as we're aiming for luxury express rather than sound barrier performance.
The idea of taking VX up market means Auto doesn't it, jaguar, most Mercedes, Lexus LS400 etc seem to be on the hole automatic?
VX don't need to compete against them selves, but add a different aspect to the range, useing a commodore chassis, RWD and less aggressive body kit,  the wood, plush leather, deep carpets and extra kit that's not likely to be in a VXR8 should make its place at the top of the range alongside the VX clear while serving 2 different markets?

Think modern senator with screens in headrest or omega V8 levels of kit

[Doctor Gollum]

Anything with an LSx lump only needs three gears... 1st for starting off, 4th,for town work and 6th for cruising...

It could actually get away with only having 6th, but the clutch won't thank you for it.

There is scope for something to develop from the Camaro, as that is essentially a Holden VF chassis. But don't hold your breath, as the market demands SUVs and MPVs and cheap functional run arounds.

The closest you thing currently on the market to a modest rwd family saloon is a 4x2 Hilux double cab with a bed cover. If you need an estate, get a full box put on the back...

[anV6]

Is the VXR8 7 speed though?
I'm saying 7 speed thinking it may help efficacy (mpg) and won't give the car the urgency or sporty feel of the VXR8 unless provoked as we're aiming for luxury express rather than sound barrier performance.
The idea of taking VX up market means Auto doesn't it, jaguar, most Mercedes, Lexus LS400 etc seem to be on the hole automatic?
VX don't need to compete against them selves, but add a different aspect to the range, useing a commodore chassis, RWD and less aggressive body kit,  the wood, plush leather, deep carpets and extra kit that's not likely to be in a VXR8 should make its place at the top of the range alongside the VX clear while serving 2 different markets?

Think modern senator with screens in headrest or omega V8 levels of kit

OK. I see now that we are talking about two different things or cars. You are talking Senator while I'm talking Lotus Carlton. 

But to be honest there is space for both and they could be based off the same car. Similarly to the HSV Senator or Grange and the HSV GTS. One is ultimate luxury and the other ultimate performance. Both based on the same car.

[Doctor Gollum]

Really? 

There is such a thing... It comes on the Holden VF chassis.

You can even have an estate if you wish...

But order it now, because after next year you won't be able to

[anV6]

Really? 

There is such a thing... It comes on the Holden VF chassis.

You can even have an estate if you wish...

But order it now, because after next year you won't be able to

Really, what? Don't understand the question. I'm obviously aware of the Holding and HSV line, as I have repeatedly mentioned them, including in my very last post. So I don't see what it has to do with the topic at hand.

[Doctor Gollum]

Rabbiting on about the VP Senator Grange/SS platform... and saying that it's shame that you can't build a car to meet two different criteria.

Clearly it was a successful philosophy and, for now at least, still in place.

However times change, either accept it and move on, or do something about it. Simples.

At the end of the day, the demands of the buying public dictates that reasonably priced, large rwd saloons are a very niche market, and no amount of sepia shading is going to change that. Never has and never will.

HSV is a badge engineering exercise run by Holden in the same way that VXR and OPC are for Vauxhall and Opel respectively, rather than a separate range.

I'll stop there, as this will turn into another incited rant

[anV6]

Rabbiting on about the VP Senator Grange/SS platform... and saying that it's shame that you can't build a car to meet two different criteria.

Clearly it was a successful philosophy and, for now at least, still in place.

However times change, either accept it and move on, or do something about it. Simples.

At the end of the day, the demands of the buying public dictates that reasonably priced, large rwd saloons are a very niche market, and no amount of sepia shading is going to change that. Never has and never will.

HSV is a badge engineering exercise run by Holden in the same way that VXR and OPC are for Vauxhall and Opel respectively, rather than a separate range.

I'll stop there, as this will turn into another incited rant

I didn't say it's a shame anybody can't build a car to meet two different criteria.  Where did I write that? I said that since I noticed Pmacca2000 and I were actually talking about 2 different type of cars, a single platform could be used to build both "our" cars. And I then gave the Senator and GTS as an example of two cars similar to what each of us seem to want and which are built based on the same car.

Then you jumped in basically saying to buy a Holden now and shut up. Which has nothing to do with the topic. I know you can buy a Holden now, at least if you live in RHD territory. But we are talking about the future. Discussing options and solution for the future. Which is why your post makes no sense and is out of place.

[Doctor Gollum]

Actually, you inferred it.

I don't always have time or inclination to write verbose prose that I might explain every nuance of the thought process, but rather presume that the reader might actually be able to work it out for themselves

If you can't buy a lhd Holden derivative then your options remain the same... import or buy local.

[anV6]

Actually, you inferred it.

I don't always have time or inclination to write verbose prose that I might explain every nuance of the thought process, but rather presume that the reader might actually be able to work it out for themselves

If you can't buy a lhd Holden derivative then your options remain the same... import or buy local.

I actually did not. It's clear you have misinterpreted what I'm saying. That is even more clear by your suggestion of buying a Holden now, when I actually made a point that the problem will become even worse because Holden is stopping making the Commodore. That should be a clear indication that I'm not worried about the present but the future.

So what buying a Holden in the present does to solve problems of the future is beyond me. If that was the point, why just limited yourself to Holden or even cars of the present? By your logic, just secure your future by buying a 1968 RWD, manual 4 door saloon. 

[Doctor Gollum]

You can futureproof your concern buy buying a new one now.

Not a new concept... Several UK police forces bulk ordered the Omega when cessation of production was announced. Like I suggested, if you don't like it either accept it as a sad fact of progress or do something about it.

Mourning the death of rwd saloons last made 14 years ago now is about 14 years to late.

And whilst we're on the subject, badge snobbery is the only thing keeping people from the current crop of rear wheel drive options

[Pmacca2000]

Someone posted on here a while ago about Japanese and Korean brands entering the premium market , Toyota have Lexus, Nissan I think infinity? And how some omega owners rebadged the cars as VX/Opel or Holden to standout and bring an exclusive feel to the car in various countries.

My idea was based on a simple thought, GM has the resources and company's under its control to make a premium brand topping executive express.

Useing a Holden commodore chassis (RWD) and the same 6.2 V8 as the VXR8 would reduce costs and allow VX to use one basic package to develop its express.
Add a 7 speed automatic gearbox to increase refinement and cut in car noise will also aid economy and increase mpg figures due to low revs and good tourq while making the cars performance less apparent.
 the cabin with 4 heated and cooled leather seats, deep carpets and lashings of chrome and wood while externally adding a discreet body kit with elite branding rather than VX and you'd have the VXR8 topping the VXR range and the elite, close in performance topping the normal VX range with the exclusive advantange of having enough kit that the thinking executive may just want one?

[Pmacca2000]

In fairness I was never aiming for an argument, I have people I can see for that, I was suggesting VX could make a proper executive express to compete with the German premium brands.
I useded the Holden comadore as an example as most executives expresses are RWD and it's far cheaper than development of a brand new RWD chassis.