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[jerry]

Seems to be a lot in the press lately about mr prentis and Unison. The coalition are on about raising the retirement age from 60 to 66 and moving their final salary pension schemes to a CARE one. Well, my take is "welcome to the real world" Im afraid-and Im a union rep!Of course any downgrading of an employees benefits package should be vigorously challenged (not least to see if its fair and warranted) but for so long public sector employees have had it comparitevly easy with their employers (ultimately us as taxpayers) footing a fair amount of their pension contributions and other good benefits. But the economy HAS changed. I know more than one company where they are asking staff either not to have a payrise or else to take a paycut because the current 4% inflation isnt just hitting individuals but companies as well. Now, provided that such cuts are fair and are taken pro rata by all levels of management as well as staff, and that they are warranted (eg take paycuts or else see some redundencies because the company genuinely cannot swallow increase in costs) then maybe there actually arent any alternatives. I was on one of the few remaining final salary schemes. it changed to a CARE scheme and no, I wasnt happy because my actual projection went down but I do realize that the company wanted its projections to be realistic for peoples pensions and I was very aware of how many other companies offered far less beneficial schemes in comparison. As for the retirement age, how many can afford to retire at 60 anymore? I know several people who work in the public sector and its such a vast spectrum that you cannot really lump them all together in terms of how you might view their salary bandings and benefits but surely the public sector cannot expect to be exempt from the economic pressures that everyone else is currenly suffering under? Unions are there to ensure their members are treated fairly and legally,and of course they should fight to constantly improve terms and conditions, but they must also be realistic surely?

[albitz]

Well said Jerry. welcome to the real world indeed.

[Martin_1962]

5 years no payrise, but trying to build up the company funds so we can have one eventually.

HOWEVER gas has doubled, food 50% so getting tricky

[MikeDundee]

The main issue is that the current government have always been against the public sector seeking privatisation, this is borne out if you read the CS review October last year. The other issue is that the current economic crisis has been as a result of the private sector, e.g., the banks, not the public sector

Nevertheless and as usual whatever the government want to press ahead with will happen, whether there are strikes or not. 

[hotel21]

I am now in receipt of a final salary pension that I paid ito for 30 years. 11 percent of the top line of my salary every month. Employer (local council, effectively) paid in not one brass razoo. I am getting my own money back.

Not.......

The pension monies I receive on the 15th of the month are the monies taken from the wages of those still serving as police officers. No pot of monies getting swollen by investments over the years, just straight through the accounts of the council.

So no, not all public sector employees are in receipt of public sector cash......

[albitz]

Public sector unions are the last bastion of union militancy and imo that needs to be broken - whatever it takes.Batten down the hatches and dont give in. They have had unrealistic working practises and conditions (especially pensions) for far too long.
Imo its not actually much to do with the current climate. That just makes it the problem appear more acute.
The real problem is that the last govt. increased the public sector payroll by approx 750,000 employees, and Brown absolutely plundered private sector (MY) pensions to pay for public sector pensions. The sums simply dont add up. The country simply cant afford it. Brown knew this off  course, but he also knew it would only become an enormous problem after he had his time at the controls. It was cynical theft, and someone (hopefully) is going to have the backbone to put things right.
If the battle can be won, and the public sector unions forced to become moderate and realistic organisations rather than holding the rest of us to ransom no matter what the consequences, it will be of enormous long term benefit to the country.

Imo public sector employees (apart from polioce and armed services) should have exactly the same arrangements as us in the private sector - retire at around 66 (if your lucky) and pension is a money purchase scheme,paid from the pot which has had contributions from employee and employer, and the payments from the pot on retirement depend on how the investments in the markets have swollen (or not) the amount of money in the pot. That is the real world.

[albitz]

P.S. These strikes are more about bringing down the coalition and getting Labour back into power (the engine drivers of the gravy train) than they are about genuinely looking after the long term interests of the membership.

[Banjax]

and theres tory mp's calling for people to work for less than the minimum wage 

obviously Eton doesnt teach you what "minimum" means 

[albitz]

And that has relevance to this thread because.......?

[albitz]

Meanwhile...........comrade Bob Crow was spotted having a champagne lunch in Scotts of Mayfair this week. The bill for him and his four union colleagues came to £650. Not sure if that was paid from his six figure salary or from his generous expenses account. Maybe his members should be asking for a reduction in their union subscriptions.

[bootie]

Necessary for furthering his career??
I love Bob Crow!!

[STMO123]

Seems to be a lot in the press lately about mr prentis and Unison. The coalition are on about raising the retirement age from 60 to 66 and moving their final salary pension schemes to a CARE one. Well, my take is "welcome to the real world" Im afraid-and Im a union rep!Of course any downgrading of an employees benefits package should be vigorously challenged (not least to see if its fair and warranted) but for so long public sector employees have had it comparitevly easy with their employers (ultimately us as taxpayers) footing a fair amount of their pension contributions and other good benefits. But the economy HAS changed. I know more than one company where they are asking staff either not to have a payrise or else to take a paycut because the current 4% inflation isnt just hitting individuals but companies as well. Now, provided that such cuts are fair and are taken pro rata by all levels of management as well as staff, and that they are warranted (eg take paycuts or else see some redundencies because the company genuinely cannot swallow increase in costs) then maybe there actually arent any alternatives. I was on one of the few remaining final salary schemes. it changed to a CARE scheme and no, I wasnt happy because my actual projection went down but I do realize that the company wanted its projections to be realistic for peoples pensions and I was very aware of how many other companies offered far less beneficial schemes in comparison. As for the retirement age, how many can afford to retire at 60 anymore? I know several people who work in the public sector and its such a vast spectrum that you cannot really lump them all together in terms of how you might view their salary bandings and benefits but surely the public sector cannot expect to be exempt from the economic pressures that everyone else is currenly suffering under? Unions are there to ensure their members are treated fairly and legally,and of course they should fight to constantly improve terms and conditions, but they must also be realistic surely?

Glad you're not my union rep.

[STMO123]

And that has relevance to this thread because.......?

Because, pretty soon, the lib dems will realise that they are being taken for idiots and ruining any chance they will ever have in the future. I'll show my arse if this coalition lasts five years and, much as I wanted shut of labour, they'll be getting my vote next time.
I just hope it happens before Mr Punch (Gove) ruins the education system and the chinless one ruins the NHS.
As for the pensions increase, my missus already pays £370 a month and this rise will take it closer to £500. Add that to the £1350 a month income tax and £350 NI and it's adds up to five or six claimants she is keeping in fags and beer.
She has 22 years in under the old final salary scheme, she will bank that and leave the pension scheme. If enough high earners do this, the scheme will collapse anyway.
Have a nice day.

[STMO123]

Meanwhile...........comrade Bob Crow was spotted having a champagne lunch in Scotts of Mayfair this week. The bill for him and his four union colleagues came to £650. Not sure if that was paid from his six figure salary or from his generous expenses account. Maybe his members should be asking for a reduction in their union subscriptions.

Or maybe they should continue laughing like fook at LU and the train companies who bow to their every whim. Jealousy is an ugly emotion Albs.
It used to be the haves and the have-nots. Now it's the haves, the have-nots and the bitter onlookers.

[albitz]

Im not jealous of anyone Steve. Just have a strong sense of whats right and wrong. The public sector can only continue as it is if we either - borrow lots more money,and continue to do so forevermore - which would put us in the same position greece is in now pretty quickly.
Or - I pay even more tax (including my pension fund taxation) so that people who earn far more than me (and most other people) can carry on regardless, even though economic circumstances have changed dramatically. To me, thats wrong.
The public sector used to retire early and have better pensions than the private sector, but earned considerably less than the private sector. Public sector earnings are now higher than the private sector. Something has to give. The private sector is shrinking, the public sector is growing like an out of control monster. It has to stop.