Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[STEMO]

…….
I still maintain that most Omegas are unbeatable for mile crunching.
……..

My 3.2 had some decent torque once rolling as well. I still smile at the memory of my 3.2 Elite as I swung out to the outside lane of Telegraph Hill on the A38 towards Newton Abbot, and the look on people’s faces as I overtook them going up the hill with 26’ of caravan on the back. I left my brother-in-law standing in his MG-ZT with his two berth on the back. He couldn’t believe it, that thing was an animal towing uphill.    Yes I’m aware that third lane overtakes whilst towing is illegal but they were all holding me up,  (you don’t often here that from a caravanner lol) and it was only briefly before it turns back to two lanes.

You, sir, are a very naughty boy. But I'm sure you've been told that before.

[Doctor Gollum]

When I first needed them in 2009 they were already well over £250 each. That car only had two* wishbone replacements in 6 years/120k. And one of those was because I snapped one experimenting with poly rear bushes. And you know just what that car went through both before I bought it and in my ownership.

The first was to replace the worn out originals. These were Delphi ones that failed almost instantly. These were ultimately rebushed with poly bushes and were replaced with ATP sourced ones when they failed. The Delphi ones got rebuilt and were the ones I used for experimenting. When that arm snapped, they were both replaced with rebuilt ATP arms.

Fitted around 10 sets of ATP kits to various members cars over the years. The drop links were pretty short lived, but with the state of the roads they are a service item.

We'll have to agree to disagree re the ATP kits, but then that's been the case since they first became available 😉

How on earth did you manage to 'snap' a wishbone experimemting with polybushes? I'm sure even aftermarket wishbones can take a certain amount of abuse purely to be deemed 'fit for purpose'. Were you possibly being a bit 'hamfisted' ?

If I remember correctly Al was experimenting with the wishbone rear vertical bush. It over stressed it and eventually cracked so, as a trial he took one for the team. 

Exactly this - a few of us tried a number of different rear bush options.

Upon fitting mine, it was utterly fantastic for a few weeks, but I ended up tearing the poly.  Mine was a design similar to the front - poly with a metal tube spacer, that allowed very little flex.  I think DG's has a ball in IIRC (Yellow ones Al? Or and I thinking of somebody elses?).  Hardly surprising I wrecked them, every day was a torture test, LOL.  That was the old me, before being reformed by paying to be patronised.

I never managed to snap a wishbone, but the GM wishbones have better welding around rear bush, and stronger in this area, though still going to be prone to metal fatigue I'm sure.  But I gave up with the rear poly idea before anything happened, and accepted replacing the rear bushes every few years.

The initial approach used the core from a standard rear bush, but this didn't work so well because the yellow Sierra bushes were far too soft. A combination with the black track cores and yellow flanges was a significant improvement, but the final iteration I tried was the track bushes sliced horizontally to allow some slip without reducing support.

Those took a few thousand miles of punishment before the inevitable happened.

A rose joint would have been the perfect engineering solution, but the NVH penalty might have been too much

[johnnydog]

When you consider that GM spent millions (??) on research and development, why should there be a need to play around 'experimenting' trying to improve the original equipment? Suspension development is far more involved than tinkering around in your garage, and hit and miss trial and error experiments - as shown by the short life span of your wishbones once modified.
As said, since 2004 I have only replaced one set of wishbones, and never had any MOT failures or advisories for suspension components.
I have always tried to use genuine GM parts on my Omegas which may have been a great factor in their longevity, and considering the cheap tat in aftermarket parts that are available (and possibly the only source of replacement parts now if the opportunity wasn't taken to buy genuine parts when they were available at sensible money) the saying 'buy cheap buy twice' couldn't be more relevant.
In the Triumph classic car club I am a member of, many have modified their cars from standard in the attempt to gain a few more bhp or give the vehicle a more lowered look for example, but are often faced with headaches surrounding other problems/ issues that arise as a result.
The knowledge of the GM designers when the Omega was developed shouldn't be understated, and whilst improvements in vehicle design in today's vehicles is clearly leaps and bounds ahead of the original Omega development, from a personal point of view, I have never felt the need to mess around with the original specifications.
Maybe I'm a bit more sympathetic with my vehicles than some and possibly treat them with the respect they deserve?

[Doctor Gollum]

I would politely suggest that the Omegas in your ownership have either just had their wishbones replaced or haven't been driven enough to fail.

[Doctor Gollum]

And from a chassis point of view, the Omega B is a rehash of the Omega A and it's origins are late 70s...

Cheap production costs and acceptable road manners were the two considerations, in that order.

[johnnydog]

You may suggest that, of course...

And from a chassis point of view, the Omega B is a rehash of the Omega A and it's origins are late 70s...

Cheap production costs and acceptable road manners were the two considerations, in that order.

Rather pedantic don't you think.....?
And regarding your last statement - 'whats that got to do with the price of fish'?

[Doctor Gollum]

You may suggest that, of course...

And from a chassis point of view, the Omega B is a rehash of the Omega A and it's origins are late 70s...

Cheap production costs and acceptable road manners were the two considerations, in that order.

Rather pedantic don't you think.....?
And regarding your last statement - 'whats that got to do with the price of fish'?

GM and Ford vehicle production are a secondary support business to their respective financial divisions. That is they exist to produce vehicles for the financial business to lend money on. And as any business that produces anything does so to make a profit. Ergo, to maximise the profit of any given product, it's components are designed to be cheap to produce and install. The Omega platform is no exception to this. And the front wishbones are a good example...

Two pieces of mirror images steel plate, stamped and welded together. The front bush is a two metal tubes and some oil filled rubber. The rear bush is again two tubes (one a welded ring, other compressed in a die to produce a bulge) and some rubber. The ball joint is riveted on rather than bolted as it's quicker and cheaper. And all to make sure that the car is relatively stable driving down the road for the length of the lease agreement.

You can get all worked up about trying to source genuine left and right wishbones but at the end of the day, the ONLY difference is which way up the ball joint is fitted.

[Doctor Gollum]

Back to the original point re trying different rear bushes, the aim was to try and tighten up the handling in order to make the car more involving to drive whilst removing another wear part from the front suspension. And by and large it did just that as it semi rigidly located the vertical pivot point and allowed zero toe to be used as it removed alot of lateral slop from the front end.

The idea came from the stress and angst resulting getting through a pair of front tyres a week whilst relying on the car to earn a living.

Had it been fully successful, then the only service item would have been the ball joint and this could easily be replaced on the car.

[Keith ABS]

 Stripped the water pump off the Carlton today to see if it was one of the inferior plastic impeller versions
It was not so now wondering what else it could be for it to still be getting to hot. Head gasket done, stat removed and rad flushed with neat uric acid
Also attempted to remove both front calipers as they are "sticky" to send to Biggred for rebuilding
Could only find one brake pipe clamp and one caliper retaining bolt would not budge
Plenty of Ambersil penertrant around it and give it another go next week

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Brought the Omega to work today for a change.
Checked and adjusted tyre pressures, checked fluid levels, cleaned the inside of the windows, to hopefully help prevent steaming up.
Then gave it a wash.
Not much I know, but it helps pass the time.

[Doctor Gollum]

Met with a grumbly wheel bearing on the Bini. It's only got to last two weeks.

[STEMO]

Brought the Omega to work today for a change.
Checked and adjusted tyre pressures, checked fluid levels, cleaned the inside of the windows, to hopefully help prevent steaming up.
Then gave it a wash.
Not much I know, but it helps pass the time.

Getting paid to fart around with your own car. Sounds good to me 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Its a crap job but someone has to do it. 

[Raeturbo]

Stripped the water pump off the Carlton today to see if it was one of the inferior plastic impeller versions
It was not so now wondering what else it could be for it to still be getting to hot. Head gasket done, stat removed and rad flushed with neat uric acid
Also attempted to remove both front calipers as they are "sticky" to send to Biggred for rebuilding
Could only find one brake pipe clamp and one caliper retaining bolt would not budge
Plenty of Ambersil penertrant around it and give it another go next week

               10 to 1 you have done it but have you checked the cooling fan is doing its job properly

[Keith ABS]

Stripped the water pump off the Carlton today to see if it was one of the inferior plastic impeller versions
It was not so now wondering what else it could be for it to still be getting to hot. Head gasket done, stat removed and rad flushed with neat uric acid
Also attempted to remove both front calipers as they are "sticky" to send to Biggred for rebuilding
Could only find one brake pipe clamp and one caliper retaining bolt would not budge
Plenty of Ambersil penertrant around it and give it another go next week

               10 to 1 you have done it but have you checked the cooling fan is doing its job properly

Has a viscous Rae and its all working fine