So what have you done to your car today?

[Entwood]

Drove it to Chesham ... Full Geo and 2 front tyres fitted.... 

I knew the settings were way out on the way there, as I had only done them by the "counting the thread" method, but I was surprised how bad it felt on rough surfaces, and cats-eyes etc, which I thought was the effect of the front polybushes - and I was not happy ..

However, once the Geo was done and the wheels all pointed where they should, the drive home was equally surprising .. I expected the steering/handling to be much improved, but I was very surprised how much difference it made to the "road surface feel" .. although now slightly "harder" than the original, there is no where near as much "clunking and banging" as there was on the way there !!

Very happy now, and you learn summat everyday, but I still can't work out why the wheels not pointing straight make the road surface imperfections much more noticeable... 

[chrisgixer]

Counting the turns is NOWHERE near accurate enough. Needs a look at the wheels position, as the guide, before driving.

Toe always averages to make the wheels the same both sides. But the further out \-/, or in /-\ , it is, the more tyre slip there is. It stretches ALL the give out of the tyre side wall. As the tyre is the first point of the suspension, and the side wall stretched, you really feel the low frequency bumps that the tyre usually absorbs.
In extreme cases, the tyre will also jump to recover, like each revolution of the wheel you driving over a concrete seam like you get on concrete motorways. Especially if its wet.

Iirc was it yourself that had the suspension rise as they drive forward, due to massive toe in after a tre change...?

[chrisgixer]

Although, it's not important if your replacing tyres. Provided the car is vaguely drivable.

[Entwood]

Counting the turns is NOWHERE near accurate enough. Needs a look at the wheels position, as the guide, before driving.

Toe always averages to make the wheels the same both sides. But the further out \-/, or in /-\ , it is, the more tyre slip there is. It stretches ALL the give out of the tyre side wall. As the tyre is the first point of the suspension, and the side wall stretched, you really feel the low frequency bumps that the tyre usually absorbs.
In extreme cases, the tyre will also jump to recover, like each revolution of the wheel you driving over a concrete seam like you get on concrete motorways. Especially if its wet.

Iirc was it yourself that had the suspension rise as they drive forward, due to massive toe in after a tre change...?

Thanks for that .. makes sense and agrees with what happened .. The suspension hiccup was at Newent several years back when the TRE's were changed and you could literally see the error !! sort of corrected Sunday morning before the drive home ..   then to WIM ASAP

This time I not only counted but looked as well, and used pieces of timber !!  so it "appeared" as good as possible .. but on the machine they were 1 deg 27' and 1 deg 23' before correction to 0.06' & 0.05' ... there is no way I can "see" 1 degree !!

Backs were interesting .. near side was out - 0 deg 21' when target is 10' +/- 0.05' but the offside was spot on at 0 deg 10' .. and considering they were done using a tape measure and two bits of wood I'm well chuffed

[chrisgixer]

...yep that's a good attempt at both ends.

[Mr.OmegaMan]

Had A/C re-gassed at ATS £45 all in, Apparently a small leak around high pressure cap, Lasted 2 years though.. It had 251 in the system now has 950.

[danzigfan]

What a nice job...not....

[Nick W]

I woudn't even consider doing it with the wishbones on the car. Undo two more bolts and it becomes a simple bench job.

[Kevin Wood]

Well, it seems that mine no longer exhibits clown car handling now the front wishbone bushes and drop links have been changed.

Odd one, that. I could have sworn it was the back end letting go. Rear wishbone bushes didn't look too bad either. Front bushes were and remain poly.

But no, throw it into a corner and it just goes round instead of feeling like it's about to swap ends. I can only guess that one of the front bushes had enough "give" to cause the front end to tuck in once a certain cornering force was reached. Really felt like the back end stepping out, though.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Had a tinker with my CBR600 this afternoon and have got her started and running for the first time in 3 years!! 

Although it's up for sale, now she's going again I'm thinking 'Hmmmmm' 

[TheBoy]

Well, it seems that mine no longer exhibits clown car handling now the front wishbone bushes and drop links have been changed.

Odd one, that. I could have sworn it was the back end letting go. Rear wishbone bushes didn't look too bad either. Front bushes were and remain poly.

But no, throw it into a corner and it just goes round instead of feeling like it's about to swap ends. I can only guess that one of the front bushes had enough "give" to cause the front end to tuck in once a certain cornering force was reached. Really felt like the back end stepping out, though.

I had similar with polys in the rearward front wishbones, felt like it was going to oversteer unexpectedly (yet strangely predictable once used to it) mid corner. So it seems if something is wrong with the vertical bush, you can get this sensation

[Mr.OmegaMan]

Washed and a minor detail in/out, New pollen filter, Topped up screen wash, Wafting a bumble bee out the pollen filter compartment area  .. That's about it. 

[chrisgixer]

Well, it seems that mine no longer exhibits clown car handling now the front wishbone bushes and drop links have been changed.

Odd one, that. I could have sworn it was the back end letting go. Rear wishbone bushes didn't look too bad either. Front bushes were and remain poly.

But no, throw it into a corner and it just goes round instead of feeling like it's about to swap ends. I can only guess that one of the front bushes had enough "give" to cause the front end to tuck in once a certain cornering force was reached. Really felt like the back end stepping out, though.

I had similar with polys in the rearward front wishbones, felt like it was going to oversteer unexpectedly (yet strangely predictable once used to it) mid corner. So it seems if something is wrong with the vertical bush, you can get this sensation

So are we talking about a sensation from the stearing wheel, that feels like over steer?

[Kevin Wood]

Well, it seems that mine no longer exhibits clown car handling now the front wishbone bushes and drop links have been changed.

Odd one, that. I could have sworn it was the back end letting go. Rear wishbone bushes didn't look too bad either. Front bushes were and remain poly.

But no, throw it into a corner and it just goes round instead of feeling like it's about to swap ends. I can only guess that one of the front bushes had enough "give" to cause the front end to tuck in once a certain cornering force was reached. Really felt like the back end stepping out, though.

I had similar with polys in the rearward front wishbones, felt like it was going to oversteer unexpectedly (yet strangely predictable once used to it) mid corner. So it seems if something is wrong with the vertical bush, you can get this sensation

So are we talking about a sensation from the stearing wheel, that feels like over steer?

Not so much from the steering wheel. A change of poise of the car is how I'd describe it. Nothing through the steering wheel, but it felt just like the onset of oversteer, except that you could steer through it and there was still plenty of grip left.

Front bushes didn't look too bad either. I wondered if I was wasting my time changing them, TBH.

[chrisgixer]

Hmmm. Checked rear subframe bushes? (The ones unbolted for a rear spring change)