Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: chrisgixer on 05 April 2014, 19:14:51
-
Just wondering. Out of interest. What's your description of development? Doesn't matter what thing your developing. A company, a process, a product, a country. Matters not. How would you describe development that can be applied to.... Anything.
Before posting I'd ask you to be honest. This might mean your worried about looking stupid if your not sure. Please swallow any pride you may have and just post. Straight off the bat. No googling. No reading other posts first to get an idea if your not sure. Post first, read later.
I'm interested in the general perception of what people think development is and how its should work. NOT what the actual correct way/use/process of development is.
Mark Dtm. Please hold off until the end if the thread, you'll give too many clues away. ;)
-
The process of taking an idea to a marketable product.
-
The process of taking an idea to a marketable product.
Ok, but what the basis of it? How do you go about it? ...and how do you aply that to anything. Not just a product. I'm talking real basics.
-
The growth of a concept from inception to perfection :-\
Simple concepts might not need much developing to perfect, more complex things might take a decade and thousands of man hours/cash...
-
The growth of a concept from inception to perfection :-\
Simple concepts might not need much developing to perfect, more complex things might take a decade and thousands of man hours/cash...
How, how do you do it. Describe developing.
-
The growth of a concept from inception to perfection :-\
Simple concepts might not need much developing to perfect, more complex things might take a decade and thousands of man hours/cash...
How, how do you do it. Describe developing.
How long have you got? ;)
-
Ok I'm breaking my own rules here and reading others posts first.
Thing is I think I know. So I'm going to hold off and try to guide things the way I want.
I struggle to with eloquence and communicating ideas some times, so bear with me.
-
The growth of a concept from inception to perfection :-\
Simple concepts might not need much developing to perfect, more complex things might take a decade and thousands of man hours/cash...
How, how do you do it. Describe developing.
How long have you got? ;)
Depends if my company fails or not.
-
To my mind its really simple. But then my mind is a bit simple too sometime.
I rekon a paragraph should cover it. ....ish.
-
Development is changing the state of....
needs context though
Housing development
lnternational Developnent
unfortunate development
late development
-
In my naïve world:
Idea > test > improve > test > improve until as good as it can be
If its a money making scheme, keep the test/improve cycles low, and get it to market quick. To quote a senior mgr from my old company when I told him the product quality was poor now (then), the answer was "it doesn't need to be good, just good enough"
-
But be prepared to accept that the idea, or implementation of the idea, is fundamentally flawed...
-
Development is changing the state of....
needs context though
Housing development
lnternational Developnent
unfortunate development
late development
How? Identify it as best you can.
-
Just wondering. Out of interest. What's your description of development? Doesn't matter what thing your developing. A company, a process, a product, a country. Matters not. How would you describe development that can be applied to.... Anything.
Before posting I'd ask you to be honest. This might mean your worried about looking stupid if your not sure. Please swallow any pride you may have and just post. Straight off the bat. No googling. No reading other posts first to get an idea if your not sure. Post first, read later.
I'm interested in the general perception of what people think development is and how its should work. NOT what the actual correct way/use/process of development is.
Mark Dtm. Please hold off until the end if the thread, you'll give too many clues away. ;)
Being a PM nowadays, he'll rattle on about plans, milestones, quality gates and other PRINCE2 stuff :P
-
In my naïve world:
Idea > test > improve > test > improve until as good as it can be
If its a money making scheme, keep the test/improve cycles low, and get it to market quick. To quote a senior mgr from my old company when I told him the product quality was poor now (then), the answer was "it doesn't need to be good, just good enough"
Ok, what if the idea/situation/thing already exists, absolute first step?
-
In my naïve world:
Idea > test > improve > test > improve until as good as it can be
If its a money making scheme, keep the test/improve cycles low, and get it to market quick. To quote a senior mgr from my old company when I told him the product quality was poor now (then), the answer was "it doesn't need to be good, just good enough"
Ok, what if the idea/situation/thing already exists, absolute first step?
If it exists, they its not an idea. Although there are still reasons why you may not wish to use the existing item/service/product/procedure, but (re)develop your own.
-
In my naïve world:
Idea > test > improve > test > improve until as good as it can be
If its a money making scheme, keep the test/improve cycles low, and get it to market quick. To quote a senior mgr from my old company when I told him the product quality was poor now (then), the answer was "it doesn't need to be good, just good enough"
Ok, what if the idea/situation/thing already exists, absolute first step?
If it exists, they its not an idea. Although there are still reasons why you may not wish to use the existing item/service/product/procedure, but (re)develop your own.
Nobody said it must be an idea. Description needs to apply to ANYTHING. :)
Second sentence noted btw.
-
I've developed a pain in the arse reading your shite. :y
-
I've developed a pain in the arse reading your shite. :y
Well F off elsewhere then
-
Ok so start with the desired goal.
Once that's established, look at where you are and the development required is the processes involved to get from where you're at through to the desired goal.
Other considerations will eventually lead to compromise but the effects of any compromise need to be considered or the target result adapted to compensate.
Using vertical wishbone bushes as an example...
Target result: better life expectancy coupled with better/ more consistent wishbone control.
Considerations in order of importance: compliant enough to not stress components
Firm enough to not deform under shock load
Suitable dimensions to enable ease of fitting
Durability of material
Cost
So the development process starts by identifying a suitable size alternative. This then focuses the other considerations starting with the cheapest product that meets the required dimensions. This is then trailed for compliance/support to determine the suitabilty of the material. Different compounds are trialled until an acceptable performance level is reached. This process resulted in the final form as fitted to my car with the caveat that the welds on the wishbone are at least 50% of the bush circumference. This caveat coming as a direct result of failure of a component using a totally different bush design.
Hopefully this example makes sense, as like you I sometimes struggle with explaining concepts :-\
-
Ok so, absolute basic step no 1 is?
I would add this flies completely in the face of apparent fashions of current management thinking. It seems to me.
-
In my naïve world:
Idea > test > improve > test > improve until as good as it can be
If its a money making scheme, keep the test/improve cycles low, and get it to market quick. To quote a senior mgr from my old company when I told him the product quality was poor now (then), the answer was "it doesn't need to be good, just good enough"
Ok, what if the idea/situation/thing already exists, absolute first step?
Put the kettle on that's first :)
-
I can be propper retarded sometimes...
Step one. Identify the problem. ::)
-
;D ok that's stage 1 of step 1 ;D
Stage 2 of step 1. Sit round a table with said cuppa and discuss .... What exactly?
-
1st question: is it marketable? No point taking it any further if not. There may be patents on similar ideas that make that impossible. It may be because there's only one person in the world who wants one. It may be because everyone wants one, and everyone makes one, and you can't develop something different enough to make it stand out. Or that the price has been forced down to where there's no margin except for the multinational who's making them in China for pennies..
That's the first step. Develop your idea with a view to selling it, because, in its' initial form, it is not likely to be something you can sell.
Next you want to turn it into something you can make, and figure out how much you can make it for, research your market and see if it'll stand the price you have to pay. Repeat until something promising drops out (or doesn't).
Next you need to refine the design into something more detailed. Draw up a requirement spec. What is it, what features will it have, what are its' important features and selling points?
Now break it down into the tasks you need to carry out to make it. Specify each so that you can give a bit of paper to someone and tell them to make it. Figure out how long each of these steps is going to take, what it'll cost, what the major challenges are going to be. Do a project plan so you know what the critical path through the project is, and refine this so you can get it to market in a timescale and cost that will work. By this point, you will have had to go back to the beginning a few times and refine it, take it back to the market research stage and see if it'll still work as a product, and so on.
You might want to build a prototype and perhaps use that to test the design, and test the market. You're into the phase that TheBoy described now - except that it doesn't need to be as good as it can be, just good enough.
Not the end of the story yet, but my dinner's ready :P
-
I can be propper retarded sometimes...
Step one. Identify the problem. ::)
Yes! I was going to say fault find. But yes yes yes oh yes. IMO anyway
Everyone like to find faults. Everyone, well almost. Why? Well IMO it's the first step of development. This makes everyone a positive person because they found the faults they want to change/fix/improve on.
-
;D ok that's stage 1 of step 1 ;D
Stage 2 of step 1. Sit round a table with said cuppa and discuss .... What exactly?
The implications of said problem, possibly involving an acknowledgment that it is an actual problem...
-
I would add, IMO, we see this process numerous times a day in here.
Most members do it naturally. Without realising probably. (Again, IMO. Not saying I'm right)
-
;D ok that's stage 1 of step 1 ;D
Stage 2 of step 1. Sit round a table with said cuppa and discuss .... What exactly?
The implications of said problem, possibly involving an acknowledgment that it is an actual problem...
Yes, is it a misunderstanding. Is training needed. (Hate the term but...)
-
Sort the symptoms from the cause of the problem...
-
;D ok that's stage 1 of step 1 ;D
Stage 2 of step 1. Sit round a table with said cuppa and discuss .... What exactly?
Red or brown sauce in bacon sarnie?
-
IMO, fault finding is THE most positive thing a human can do. Ever. All ideas are born of fault finding. The idea being a result of fault finding. The idea is the solution to a fault.
Next most positive, having found a solution. Ie, the idea.
-
;D ok that's stage 1 of step 1 ;D
Stage 2 of step 1. Sit round a table with said cuppa and discuss .... What exactly?
Red or brown sauce in bacon sarnie?
You'll go far. :y ;D
-
Sort the symptoms from the cause of the problem...
Symptoms identify the problem. Understand the fault. Fully. IMO...
Are we correct though....? We agree at least. Do others?
-
So I would say.
Step 1.
Look for faults. Actively. Log them. Initiate testing even. Reproduce them separately, in order to be sure. Proritising probably. Starting to get vague now. ;D
This is where things fail IMO.
The current fashion in management, you've probably heard, is "Be positive". Ok good, heres a load of faults we need to fix. Says I. No, says he. I'm being negative. He says.
At this stage, is it ok to punch your boss squarely in the face?
-
This would be born of frustration I would hasten to add. As the fault finding process might be absent.
-
1st question: is it marketable? No point taking it any further if not. There may be patents on similar ideas that make that impossible. It may be because there's only one person in the world who wants one. It may be because everyone wants one, and everyone makes one, and you can't develop something different enough to make it stand out. Or that the price has been forced down to where there's no margin except for the multinational who's making them in China for pennies..
That's the first step. Develop your idea with a view to selling it, because, in its' initial form, it is not likely to be something you can sell.
Next you want to turn it into something you can make, and figure out how much you can make it for, research your market and see if it'll stand the price you have to pay. Repeat until something promising drops out (or doesn't).
Next you need to refine the design into something more detailed. Draw up a requirement spec. What is it, what features will it have, what are its' important features and selling points?
Now break it down into the tasks you need to carry out to make it. Specify each so that you can give a bit of paper to someone and tell them to make it. Figure out how long each of these steps is going to take, what it'll cost, what the major challenges are going to be. Do a project plan so you know what the critical path through the project is, and refine this so you can get it to market in a timescale and cost that will work. By this point, you will have had to go back to the beginning a few times and refine it, take it back to the market research stage and see if it'll still work as a product, and so on.
You might want to build a prototype and perhaps use that to test the design, and test the market. You're into the phase that TheBoy described now - except that it doesn't need to be as good as it can be, just good enough.
Not the end of the story yet, but my dinner's ready :P
The process is in there. Within all that.
But say your a "development consultant" if such a thing exists. What is the model you need to apply to any/every situation you could possibly imagine. From buying a car to a house. From production of a product to improving a countries standard if living...?
-
Apply it to this thread.
Kevs answer btw is not what I imagined. Why? Did I not explain it well enough. More than likely. Did he apply it to what he knows best. Quite possibly.
Probably got the point accross by now.
Might be ready for Mr Dtm now. If he can be arsed. ;D
-
Indeed :y
A puddle of coolant implies a leak, but requires further investigation to identify the source and therefore the cause of the problem, and from that tge solution can be found...
As for lumping your boss, can't be anymore tempting than shooting the Tuesday of an Onanist that I just had words with :-X
-
Indeed :y
A puddle of coolant implies a leak, but requires further investigation to identify the source and therefore the cause of the problem, and from that tge solution can be found...
As for lumping your boss, can't be anymore tempting than shooting the Tuesday of an Onanist that I just had words with :-X
Ok so, where's the fault. Was it with you? Or him....? Leads to personal development. Eventually IMO. Could I have handled it differently. What ever it is?
I guess before starting on personal development, it helps to practice elsewhere first. ;D
-
Fixing a fault isn't development, though. :-\
-
Fixing a fault isn't development, though. :-\
That depends on the cause...
-
Ok, what if the idea/situation/thing already exists, absolute first step?
[/quote]
research
is there a market for it?
-
Apply it to this thread.
Kevs answer btw is not what I imagined. Why? Did I not explain it well enough. More than likely. Did he apply it to what he knows best. Quite possibly.
Probably got the point accross by now.
Might be ready for Mr Dtm now. If he can be arsed. ;D
For me, and probably others I'd guess, the work environment can be extremely frustrating. The same old problems come up time and time again. Same job done wrong each time it comes through. So what did we do last time? We bodged it. Staff used their ingenuity to fix the fault and get the job through. It's not done correctly, it's not exactly to spec, it cost the company three times as much in time to do, but the customer accepted it and we got paid.
Where's the fault? Well, management don't know. Why? Lack of experience. But ultimately, they failed to implement a fault reporting system. Staff have no way of reporting back a fault. Result? Nobody fixes any faults. More jobs come though and back up the production process. Result less jobs done that day. Result? Less profit. Last 3 or 4 jobs of the day are delivered late because the fault held them up and they don't get done until the next day. Costs are incurred on late fees. The profit from the faulty job is lost, ten fold actually by the time up I add up the knock on effects. Result? Company goes bust. Or at best, is selling fivers for £4 and an accountant might spot it.
This is my world currently. We don't learn as a company. Why? Management see fault finding as a negative. So refuse to accept it stating we must keep looking forward. Ok great, how? No answer. Just keep looking forward.
Ffs. Looking forward is great, but in order to look forward effectively, first the passed needs to be accepted and learned from. Anything else is idiotic.
Now it may be that jobs come through "wrong" for a good reason. But unless you have an effective fault finding process in place, nobody will ever know what that reason is. Good bad or indifferent.
-
Ok, what if the idea/situation/thing already exists, absolute first step?
research
is there a market for it?
[/quote]
Yes, or put another way, is it really a fault. Or, is it worth fixing the fault.
-
Fixing a fault isn't development, though. :-\
That depends on the cause...
It may well feature in the process, but will only be part of it. ;)
-
Apply it to this thread.
Kevs answer btw is not what I imagined. Why? Did I not explain it well enough. More than likely. Did he apply it to what he knows best. Quite possibly.
Probably got the point accross by now.
Might be ready for Mr Dtm now. If he can be arsed. ;D
For me, and probably others I'd guess, the work environment can be extremely frustrating. The same old problems come up time and time again. Same job done wrong each time it comes through. So what did we do last time? We bodged it. Staff used their ingenuity to fix the fault and get the job through. It's not done correctly, it's not exactly to spec, it cost the company three times as much in time to do, but the customer accepted it and we got paid.
Where's the fault? Well, management don't know. Why? Lack of experience. But ultimately, they failed to implement a fault reporting system. Staff have no way of reporting back a fault. Result? Nobody fixes any faults. More jobs come though and back up the production process. Result less jobs done that day. Result? Less profit. Last 3 or 4 jobs of the day are delivered late because the fault held them up and they don't get done until the next day. Costs are incurred on late fees. The profit from the faulty job is lost, ten fold actually by the time up I add up the knock on effects. Result? Company goes bust. Or at best, is selling fivers for £4 and an accountant might spot it.
This is my world currently. We don't learn as a company. Why? Management see fault finding as a negative. So refuse to accept it stating we must keep looking forward. Ok great, how? No answer. Just keep looking forward.
Ffs. Looking forward is great, but in order to look forward effectively, first the passed needs to be accepted and learned from. Anything else is idiotic.
Now it may be that jobs come through "wrong" for a good reason. But unless you have an effective fault finding process in place, nobody will ever know what that reason is. Good bad or indifferent.
What you're describing to me is a lack of a wrap-up at the end of the project, where the performance of the project is evaluated, lessons are learned and it gets fed back into the process to improve things next time. Well, that and working for complete asshats, of course.
-
More than one answer to this, but from an engineering perspective: Finding or being given a problem and creating a solution. As this normally involves research as well, normally called Research and Development and commonly abbreviated to R&D.
Non-engineering solutions can be abstract like a development in your life which means a change of circumstances.
It can also be used generically in engineering like a housing development which is the design and building of one or more houses.
If you are looking for something generic for what humans do then moving something from one place to another covers virtually everything. :y
-
Fixing a fault isn't development, though. :-\
Ok, so your customer comes to you with a product to test. Why has he come up with that product? That new idea? IMO, because he saw faults/deficiencies or other products that didn't meet his requirements.
There's 4 products in the market. This one has wifi but not blutooth. Not having blutooth is a fault in his eyes. This ones has both but the range isn't good enough. Lack of range is a fault with the second product. But we're getting nearer. Third ine has tange but its flimsy. Flimsy is a fault. He wants the best product. 4th is great but costs a fortune. Too expensive is a fault with that one.
So he concludes no product exists that meats hies needs, develops a new one for testing. Does he find there's no money in it. No profit is a fault with the product.
As a model of development I'm using the word fault as a negative in relation to a situation. Fault may not be the right word, but I hope you get the gist...?
Or do you see a fault with my process? :) if so you could help me with development.
-
Apply it to this thread.
Kevs answer btw is not what I imagined. Why? Did I not explain it well enough. More than likely. Did he apply it to what he knows best. Quite possibly.
Probably got the point accross by now.
Might be ready for Mr Dtm now. If he can be arsed. ;D
For me, and probably others I'd guess, the work environment can be extremely frustrating. The same old problems come up time and time again. Same job done wrong each time it comes through. So what did we do last time? We bodged it. Staff used their ingenuity to fix the fault and get the job through. It's not done correctly, it's not exactly to spec, it cost the company three times as much in time to do, but the customer accepted it and we got paid.
Where's the fault? Well, management don't know. Why? Lack of experience. But ultimately, they failed to implement a fault reporting system. Staff have no way of reporting back a fault. Result? Nobody fixes any faults. More jobs come though and back up the production process. Result less jobs done that day. Result? Less profit. Last 3 or 4 jobs of the day are delivered late because the fault held them up and they don't get done until the next day. Costs are incurred on late fees. The profit from the faulty job is lost, ten fold actually by the time up I add up the knock on effects. Result? Company goes bust. Or at best, is selling fivers for £4 and an accountant might spot it.
This is my world currently. We don't learn as a company. Why? Management see fault finding as a negative. So refuse to accept it stating we must keep looking forward. Ok great, how? No answer. Just keep looking forward.
Ffs. Looking forward is great, but in order to look forward effectively, first the passed needs to be accepted and learned from. Anything else is idiotic.
Now it may be that jobs come through "wrong" for a good reason. But unless you have an effective fault finding process in place, nobody will ever know what that reason is. Good bad or indifferent.
You say 'by the time I add up the knock on effects'. Is this part of your job or are you just surmising that this is what happens? If it is part of your job to collate the financial cost of delays through faulty workmanship, then you really need to bang some heads together.
If it is not part of your job the are you privy to the actual figures?
-
More than one answer to this, but from an engineering perspective: Finding or being given a problem and creating a solution. As this normally involves research as well, normally called Research and Development and commonly abbreviated to R&D.
Non-engineering solutions can be abstract like a development in your life which means a change of circumstances.
It can also be used generically in engineering like a housing development which is the design and building of one or more houses.
If you are looking for something generic for what humans do then moving something from one place to another covers virtually everything. :y
Ok so "problem" could be a better word than "fault".
Solutions follow. No?
-
If solutions to problems don't occur then summat is seriously lacking...
-
Apply it to this thread.
Kevs answer btw is not what I imagined. Why? Did I not explain it well enough. More than likely. Did he apply it to what he knows best. Quite possibly.
Probably got the point accross by now.
Might be ready for Mr Dtm now. If he can be arsed. ;D
For me, and probably others I'd guess, the work environment can be extremely frustrating. The same old problems come up time and time again. Same job done wrong each time it comes through. So what did we do last time? We bodged it. Staff used their ingenuity to fix the fault and get the job through. It's not done correctly, it's not exactly to spec, it cost the company three times as much in time to do, but the customer accepted it and we got paid.
Where's the fault? Well, management don't know. Why? Lack of experience. But ultimately, they failed to implement a fault reporting system. Staff have no way of reporting back a fault. Result? Nobody fixes any faults. More jobs come though and back up the production process. Result less jobs done that day. Result? Less profit. Last 3 or 4 jobs of the day are delivered late because the fault held them up and they don't get done until the next day. Costs are incurred on late fees. The profit from the faulty job is lost, ten fold actually by the time up I add up the knock on effects. Result? Company goes bust. Or at best, is selling fivers for £4 and an accountant might spot it.
This is my world currently. We don't learn as a company. Why? Management see fault finding as a negative. So refuse to accept it stating we must keep looking forward. Ok great, how? No answer. Just keep looking forward.
Ffs. Looking forward is great, but in order to look forward effectively, first the passed needs to be accepted and learned from. Anything else is idiotic.
Now it may be that jobs come through "wrong" for a good reason. But unless you have an effective fault finding process in place, nobody will ever know what that reason is. Good bad or indifferent.
You say 'by the time I add up the knock on effects'. Is this part of your job or are you just surmising that this is what happens? If it is part of your job to collate the financial cost of delays through faulty workmanship, then you really need to bang some heads together.
If it is not part of your job the are you privy to the actual figures?
It's not part of my job as such. My job, all of our jobs, are way and above our position and pay. Not that management are aware.
We see the figures. But not in terms of pound notes, but in time. Time is money in our game. Which is basically production. We all leak over into management, engineering, cleaners, planners in order to get though the day. We have to.
What's kicked all this off is a consultant has been called in to look at our processes. He's basically confirmed almost everything we've said to him, and is up managements arse banging heads together as you say. Not literally but the result is the same.
Due to lack of experience, immaturity, pride, whatever, they are resisting and the company is not developing.
We can talk about the terminology, but we all know the process. Mostly. Its getting the pint across to those that don't get it. For me, it's doing it in an eloquent way that has the right result without blowing my top with frustration. My concern is that it seems SO simple to me, so simple that its doesn't need explaining, it's like walking up the road, that actually I'm assuming too much. That I've sniffed a fraction of info off the consultant and gone too far with it.
A little bit of info can be a dangerous thing. You need ALL the info to make a good decision. I'm out if my area certainly. But these people have my destiny in their control. My mortage. Life style etc. I want them to get it right.
-
Right. Then development is not really the issue. Its systems management and quality control.
-
Right. Then development is not really the issue. Its systems management and quality control.
...needs developing. As there is non currently. There's a big blame culture as well.
-
Right. Then development is not really the issue. Its systems management and quality control.
...needs developing. As there is non currently. There's a big blame culture as well.
Actuall, sorry, I've given you a crap reply. Pudding arrived. ;) ;D
Yes you right. ;)
-
Right. Then development is not really the issue. Its systems management and quality control.
...needs developing. As there is non currently. There's a big blame culture as well.
Actuall, sorry, I've given you a crap reply. Pudding arrived. ;) ;D
Yes you right. ;)
Although I do see it as development of the management team. I think?
-
For what its worth ................. to improve what you have :-\
-
Fault alone doesn't drive development. Fault drives rectification within the boundaries of what someone is prepared to pay. The scenario you gave does not describe fault - it was to do with unsatisfied needs
-
For what its worth ................. to improve what you have :-\
Yep, I like that. :y
Company moto is; constant and continuous improvement. ::)
I described it simply as Progress, to one if the managers. Ie, where is it?
-
Fault alone doesn't drive development. Fault drives rectification within the boundaries of what someone is prepared to pay. The scenario you gave does not describe fault - it was to do with unsatisfied needs
Ok, so go on with the model.
Fault has to be in there somewhere, if everything was fine then our management approach would be justified. But they aren't happy with the profits, waste, and errors, and look to the staff with a big stick for correction of a process they are in charge of. Development is out of our remit completely. Its across all depts.
I did say I see Fault finding as step one. There's little point changing anything until it's known exactly what you want to achieve/fix/change/solve.
Fault being my generic term for anything that needs improvement. Rightly or wrongly.
-
It seems to ne that your company needs to embrace the Continuous Improvement principle rather than associate poor management with development. There may also be British BSI or European CEN standards for your area of work which may assist
-
It seems to ne that your company needs to embrace the Continuous Improvement principle rather than associate poor management with development. There may also be British BSI or European CEN standards for your area of work which may assist
Well maybe yes, but surely whatever is implemented has to be done by the management. Its in their hands ultimately. Blame culture is hindering, as everyone is scared for their jobs, even before any questions are asked.
What's in common is everyone agrees change is needed. Staff point to management. Management point to staff. Our independent consultant though, employed by senior management to be fair to them obviously, looks very directly to management for change.
I'd suggest a fault reporting system, or whatever you want to call it, is first up. Followed immediately by a monitoring system to insure issues are acted on and corrected.
But first off the culture need to change. Even now, 3months in, we still get in experienced managers pointing the finger at staff. As an example, cheap materials are used(penny wise, pound foolish) that cause quality faults in production, these faults are seen as operator faults, and the operator gets the blame. Even though there was no problem with the material that was up to spec. And that's all that's changed.
They introduce a fault to previously working process, then blame someone else. Genuinely believing their approach to be correct, as that's easy. Blame the op. Or understand your process, examine what's wring, what the cause is, fix the cause, no issue next time.
Former wins on grounds of laziness as a first off.
-
The irony is, only the staff have the answers to the faults generally speaking, as the staff have the experience. Lots of experience. Up to 3 times as long in the trade as management on average. Yet the staff are never consulted.
Begs the question, what do we need them for? Numerous experienced staff have left with words along the line of "this place runs quite well. Despite the management" (not because of)
-
Any mileage in buying the management out :-\
-
Any mileage in buying the management out :-\
Too big. Several sites accross Europe. Most of which have not taken up some of the measures imposed on our staff, as they aren't legal there. Apparently.
We're on our second management team. We didn't think things could possibly get worse since the last lot....
-
That rules that out then :-\
Only a matter of time... presumably head office is aware the you're on the second set of management (i guess in a fairly short space of time). Was the external advice arranged by local management or head office?
If the former, sounds like local management is worried and rightly so... but if from head office, then they are aware there are issues and they are trying to identify (and hopefully rectify) those issues.
By getting outside opinion involved, they are 'developing' a solution. Whether that outside opinion is heeded or not, only time will tell :-\
-
Site manager got it ok'd through group management.
-
Right. Then development is not really the issue. Its systems management and quality control.
...needs developing. As there is non currently. There's a big blame culture as well.
Actuall, sorry, I've given you a crap reply. Pudding arrived. ;) ;D
Yes you right. ;)
Ok. We'll settle on process development.
-
Sounds to me like you need an attitude adjustment at management level before anything will change.
Frankly, if you're leading a team of people you need to appreciate that their knowledge and experience exceeds yours and that your role is to keep them working at maximum efficiency, which includes listening to their moans and taking on board those which are justified.
-
IMO, fault finding is THE most positive thing a human can do. Ever. All ideas are born of fault finding. The idea being a result of fault finding. The idea is the solution to a fault.
Next most positive, having found a solution. Ie, the idea.
Now you're talking of developing and existing product/service/procedure, not a new one. So you pick up my naïve strategy in the right place (as some other mongrel had the idea originally) ;)
-
It seems to ne that your company needs to embrace the Continuous Improvement principle rather than associate poor management with development. There may also be British BSI or European CEN standards for your area of work which may assist
Well maybe yes, but surely whatever is implemented has to be done by the management. Its in their hands ultimately. Blame culture is hindering, as everyone is scared for their jobs, even before any questions are asked.
That's not what CI is about. If *anyone* sees an opportunity for improvement, they can note/voice it (note, not rant), and if agreed as having business benefits, drive it through, or pass it over to somebody better equipped to do so.
Obviously, it needs mgmt. buy-in, and its usually at this stage it goes from empowering people to burdening people, as targets get set against it... ...for eg, a colleague who suffers migranes puts in CI to dim lighting, I then put in CI to state productivity would improve if we could see.
-
IMO, fault finding is THE most positive thing a human can do. Ever. All ideas are born of fault finding. The idea being a result of fault finding. The idea is the solution to a fault.
Next most positive, having found a solution. Ie, the idea.
Now you're talking of developing and existing product/service/procedure, not a new one. So you pick up my naïve strategy in the right place (as some other mongrel had the idea originally) ;)
Again. I never specified either. You presumed product development. I only ever mentioned "Development" as title. ;)
Googling development gives a phone book of options. Management bs and job creation trying to apply it to what ever situation. I'm looking at the basic most fundamental level of... Well. Common sense. Management can't call it common sense, as we all assume everyone has it. We also assume they must know what they're on about, because they're management. Or in charge. Or superior somehow. Hopefully with experience, so they can sort staff problems.
Manager goes to MD. I want to go on a common sense course. What? Don't be daft. But if he asks for some other fancy pants BS course that amounts to the same thing, that's different, as the MD doesn't know wtf he's on about. Smoke and mirrors. Paranoia. Arrogance. BS. Blah blah.
I'm not saying training isn't needed or useful. Far from it. It's just a case or understanding a very basic principle. Then applying it correctly to whatever needs it.
Like I said we see it daily in the help sections on here. I have a fault. Describe the symptoms. Understand the problem. Someone with experience pipes up. Or we work through it and come up with a likely fix based in whatever... Or however you want to describe it. Its starts with the fault**
**generic term for problem, issue, area that could be better, needs to be done better or differently. If you get my meaning.
-
Now you're talking of developing and existing product/service/procedure, not a new one. So you pick up my naïve strategy in the right place (as some other mongrel had the idea originally) ;)
Again. I never specified either. You presumed product development. I only ever mentioned "Development" as title. ;)
You'll notice in all my replies I have specifically stated product/service/procedure, and sometimes with an etc on the end ::)
As to the rest, it strikes me you have a grudge/resentment against (your) management, and nothing they will ever do will be right in your eyes. Maybe you're right, I've never met them, so can't comment. You seem to then imply all "management" is flawed/poor :-\. Remember, most senior management will have a better idea on where the company is heading, even if its not where you want it to go.
As to this year's bright idea, seemingly daft, often American process/ideas that get forced upon us, most are based on good ideas and common sense. But usually get implemented in such a way as to make that more important that anything else, including real work :'(
-
The irony is, only the staff have the answers to the faults generally speaking, as the staff have the experience. Lots of experience. Up to 3 times as long in the trade as management on average. Yet the staff are never consulted.
Begs the question, what do we need them for? Numerous experienced staff have left with words along the line of "this place runs quite well. Despite the management" (not because of)
Where have they gone to? Keep in touch. If the product your company produces is (just) profitable despite crap management there may be an opportunity for a team of disgruntled ex employees to start a new company a do a better job.
-
Now you're talking of developing and existing product/service/procedure, not a new one. So you pick up my naïve strategy in the right place (as some other mongrel had the idea originally) ;)
Again. I never specified either. You presumed product development. I only ever mentioned "Development" as title. ;)
You'll notice in all my replies I have specifically stated product/service/procedure, and sometimes with an etc on the end ::)
As to the rest, it strikes me you have a grudge/resentment against (your) management, and nothing they will ever do will be right in your eyes. Maybe you're right, I've never met them, so can't comment. You seem to then imply all "management" is flawed/poor :-\. Remember, most senior management will have a better idea on where the company is heading, even if its not where you want it to go.
As to this year's bright idea, seemingly daft, often American process/ideas that get forced upon us, most are based on good ideas and common sense. But usually get implemented in such a way as to make that more important that anything else, including real work :'(
So this model I'm asking about. Any comment? ::)
-
Sounds to me like you need an attitude adjustment at management level before anything will change.
Frankly, if you're leading a team of people you need to appreciate that their knowledge and experience exceeds yours and that your role is to keep them working at maximum efficiency, which includes listening to their moans and taking on board those which are justified.
TB take note /\
:y
-
The irony is, only the staff have the answers to the faults generally speaking, as the staff have the experience. Lots of experience. Up to 3 times as long in the trade as management on average. Yet the staff are never consulted.
Begs the question, what do we need them for? Numerous experienced staff have left with words along the line of "this place runs quite well. Despite the management" (not because of)
Where have they gone to? Keep in touch. If the product your company produces is (just) profitable despite crap management there may be an opportunity for a team of disgruntled ex employees to start a new company a do a better job.
Its a shrinking market. So the trade shrinks with it. Numerous factories in the trade have closed. This one has a a niche market, that they have personal contacts to get work. It was lucrative. Too lucrative, they made so much money, they didn't need to be efficient to the level they now do.
New markets are being sort out of necessity, and rightly so. BUT.... they are not new markets. They are the markets the current staff left the previously closed factories to work at this company. In short, they are not new markets, they're old markets but new to this company.
These Markets are tuned to death. Minimal profit margin means absolute maximum efficiency. This is the staff mentality generally speaking. So frustration creeps in at the lax management approach. And yes, resentment is present. But could be wiped out at a single stroke. With....?
Development of the current company, as I call it anyway. Our consultant agrees with most of you, that management mentality is.... How can I put it? ...key?
People want progress.
-
Sounds to me like you need an attitude adjustment at management level before anything will change.
Frankly, if you're leading a team of people you need to appreciate that their knowledge and experience exceeds yours and that your role is to keep them working at maximum efficiency, which includes listening to their moans and taking on board those which are justified.
TB take note /\
:y
Eh? I don't manage people any more, haven't for a few years ???. I manage platforms and services now. If I need personnel, I have to negotiate and agree with their managers.
-
See, if you show TB a way out, a direction...let's say a door just as an example.
He will, without fail, exit the room by ANY other route than the perfectly innocent, easy, obvious, one you offer him.
He will clime out the window, knock a hole in the ceiling, make another door, even dig a tunnel. Anything other than the the path you'd like.
Utterly bloody pointless talking to him. ;D
-
See, if you show TB a way out, a direction...let's say a door just as an example.
He will, without fail, exit the room by ANY other route than the perfectly innocent, easy, obvious, one you offer him.
He will clime out the window, knock a hole in the ceiling, make another door, even dig a tunnel. Anything other than the the path you'd like.
Utterly bloody pointless talking to him. ;D
Ahh .. so what you are saying is ..... he "develops" the exit idea and takes it forward to a new dimension ... surely that's what you wanted him to demonstrate to you ??
Unless your idea of "development" is actually "do as I want" ...
;) ;) ;) ;)
-
See, if you show TB a way out, a direction...let's say a door just as an example.
He will, without fail, exit the room by ANY other route than the perfectly innocent, easy, obvious, one you offer him.
He will clime out the window, knock a hole in the ceiling, make another door, even dig a tunnel. Anything other than the the path you'd like.
Utterly bloody pointless talking to him. ;D
Ahh .. so what you are saying is ..... he "develops" the exit idea and takes it forward to a new dimension ... surely that's what you wanted him to demonstrate to you ??
Unless your idea of "development" is actually "do as I want" ...
;) ;) ;) ;)
Nope. What I'm saying is.... HE DOESNT KNOW THE ANSWER. ;D
Fair enough, nobody knows everything. But really... ;D
-
Or, he's giving answers to the questions he knows.
Not the one being asked.
Then it'll be... "Aye? No idea what your on about" and pretend the question, or some minor point, is stupid.
-
What I find odd is that if your colleagues share your view on what needs to be fixed surely you can collectively request a meeting with management to table your ideas and express your concerns at the threats to the business that will jeopardize livelihoods of employees and result in further loss of profits and at that meeting you articulate the employees ideas to turn it round. If you have incompetent on site management who refuse to act then you need to go through grievance procedures to escalate through to Group. This is the logical way to progress. Take all the emotion out of it and present a focussed position - no mud slinging
-
What I find odd is that if your colleagues share your view on what needs to be fixed surely you can collectively request a meeting with management to table your ideas and express your concerns at the threats to the business that will jeopardize livelihoods of employees and result in further loss of profits and at that meeting you articulate the employees ideas to turn it round. If you have incompetent on site management who refuse to act then you need to go through grievance procedures to escalate through to Group. This is the logical way to progress. Take all the emotion out of it and present a focussed position - no mud slinging
People have done that, and been laid off. It's come around, the boss has taken it personally, and removed the "problem".
My guess is he's working entirely to his bonus structure and intends to claim that bonus above all else. But then, who sets his bonus and targets..? :-X
-
Anyone see any writing on the wall?
-
See, if you show TB a way out, a direction...let's say a door just as an example.
He will, without fail, exit the room by ANY other route than the perfectly innocent, easy, obvious, one you offer him.
He will clime out the window, knock a hole in the ceiling, make another door, even dig a tunnel. Anything other than the the path you'd like.
Utterly bloody pointless talking to him. ;D
WTF are you on about? I haven't the faintest idea. Does anyone else understand, if so, please let me know, as I'm just the stupid kid from the local comp. Thanks.
You asked a question about "development". I gave my ideal answer of idea > test > refine > repeat from test stage until perfect/good enough/marketable/whatever, depending on what the desire result is. Obviously, if its an existing (whatever), you start the cycle at the relevant point.
I believe that method works in most cases, be it product development, procedural processes, services, personal development/learning, business.
-
I have studied Gixer for quite some time now. He is on drugs.........deffo.
-
Do not know where you work Chris but unless employees have signed totally crap contracts you cannot just get laid off for making a suggestion. What you describe belongs in Victorian times even. Question is whether you have strength of belief in your view of what needs to be done and prepared to go through grievance all the way to Group.
Send an anonymous letter to Group if it is so bad - not if you are fearful of being identified.
You need to write down a logical solution and not just list complaints of course
-
I have studied Gixer for quite some time now. He is on drugs.........deffo.
I'll direct you to post 82.
-
People have done that, and been laid off. It's come around, the boss has taken it personally, and removed the "problem".
My guess is he's working entirely to his bonus structure and intends to claim that bonus above all else. But then, who sets his bonus and targets..? :-X
You have to figure out what the boss' motivations are. I once worked for a boss who had been tasked with recruiting a new department. His bonus was basically multiplied by the number of "bums on seats" in the office to encourage him to work on recruitment. So, coming up to Christmas time, and I was helping with the recruitment, I interviewed a guy who was a total no-hoper, told the boss as much, only to find him employed on my team the following Monday morning. :o
What's good for the boss isn't necessarily any good for anyone else, thanks to the target culture which business has become recently.
-
See, if you show TB a way out, a direction...let's say a door just as an example.
He will, without fail, exit the room by ANY other route than the perfectly innocent, easy, obvious, one you offer him.
He will clime out the window, knock a hole in the ceiling, make another door, even dig a tunnel. Anything other than the the path you'd like.
Utterly bloody pointless talking to him. ;D
On the other hand, we have just spent 6 pages discussing the semantics of the word "Development" before finally the real question comes to light. ;)
-
See, if you show TB a way out, a direction...let's say a door just as an example.
He will, without fail, exit the room by ANY other route than the perfectly innocent, easy, obvious, one you offer him.
He will clime out the window, knock a hole in the ceiling, make another door, even dig a tunnel. Anything other than the the path you'd like.
Utterly bloody pointless talking to him. ;D
On the other hand, we have just spent 6 pages discussing the semantics of the word "Development" before finally the real question comes to light. ;)
Yes I'm back working what I believe to be the underlying problem, and questioning my judgement on it in front of you lot. ;) maybe that doesn't come across ;D
I have no control/influence over targets and bonuses etc. What do I have an influence over? Not much, it seems, but as there's "supposed" to be an improved dialogue between shop floor and management on the way. Remains to be seen, but will need to be armed with something sensible.
Any two (apparently) opposing positions will have to find mutual ground somewhere in the middle in order to move on. Currently this means developing a feedback system in order to prevent repeat errors IMO. Currently, management have no inkling of the concept.
Why? Why not develop your process to at least an economically viable level. I'd suggest a change in attitude was about as cheap as its possible to get. In fact if successful its an easy way to increase productivity and profits. But who has the right attitude?
Our consultant, the staff, and the answers here on the most part show, it's not a staff issue its a system issue.
Ok it might be an arse backwards way of asking a question, but I didn't want the question to be a leading one. ;)
-
See, if you show TB a way out, a direction...let's say a door just as an example.
He will, without fail, exit the room by ANY other route than the perfectly innocent, easy, obvious, one you offer him.
He will clime out the window, knock a hole in the ceiling, make another door, even dig a tunnel. Anything other than the the path you'd like.
Utterly bloody pointless talking to him. ;D
On the other hand, we have just spent 6 pages discussing the semantics of the word "Development" before finally the real question comes to light. ;)
Yes I'm back working what I believe to be the underlying problem, and questioning my judgement on it in front of you lot. ;) maybe that doesn't come across ;D
I have no control/influence over targets and bonuses etc. What do I have an influence over? Not much, it seems, but as there's "supposed" to be an improved dialogue between shop floor and management on the way. Remains to be seen, but will need to be armed with something sensible.
Any two (apparently) opposing positions will have to find mutual ground somewhere in the middle in order to move on. Currently this means developing a feedback system in order to prevent repeat errors IMO. Currently, management have no inkling of the concept.
Why? Why not develop your process to at least an economically viable level. I'd suggest a change in attitude was about as cheap as its possible to get. In fact if successful its an easy way to increase productivity and profits. But who has the right attitude?
Our consultant, the staff, and the answers here on the most part show, it's not a staff issue its a system issue.
Ok it might be an arse backwards way of asking a question, but I didn't want the question to be a leading one. ;)
That is how we like 'em on here!!
-
I'm dreading adding anything else but heregoes...
Trying to see it from "their" perspective for a minute, do you feel, given what you've posted earlier, there is a sufficient market for this company in the UK (knowing nothing much about the industry, but making assumption that it can be done cheaper elsewhere, and sod the quality, no matter how shortsighted that may be)? Niche products/services, as your company provides, need to have better margins due to smaller market, or footfall in retail terms. Could this, in part, be an explanation of their seemingly different views? :-\. For me, alarm bells are ringing somewhere. Are they looking more for an exit, rather than long term success, assuming the market can sustain success?
If its a larger company, or multinational (I believe it is?), I suspect there have been a few phases of basically initiatives to learn from mistakes. These initiatives usually have different names to the previous one to do the same thing.
Often, once you get more than a few hundred employees, the targets for these initiatives often take precedence over actually achieving whats best for the company, as middle/senior mgrs. set their bonuses on these targets, rather than customer driven, profit driven targets. Shame, as a lot of these initiatives are based on good ideas. Poorly implemented.
//TB runs and hides, as he still hasn't a FC what gixer was on about earlier. Right door, left door, trapdoor, who gives a
-
Have you thought of writing a letter to the management on the problems and possible solutions signed by ALL of the people in your department? At the end of the day you are all in this together and if they relocate to a cheaper country for manufacturing, then all of you, including the management will be made redundant.
IME when mangement bring in external consultants it is because they are jobworths with no vision on how the business should be run. :(
Even if these ongoing problems are fixed, it still might be the right decision for the company to relocate the business where the UK has a high cost base when it comes to building / land costs, taxes, wages, regulation and energy. High energy costs are currently driving many energy intensive / low margin businesses offshore, so the current CO2 plus more is produced elsewhere in countries like the US and China etc.
-
Have you thought of writing a letter to the management on the problems and possible solutions signed by ALL of the people in your department? At the end of the day you are all in this together and if they relocate to a cheaper country for manufacturing, then all of you, including the management will be made redundant.
IME when mangement bring in external consultants it is because they are jobworths with no vision on how the business should be run. :(
Even if these ongoing problems are fixed, it still might be the right decision for the company to relocate the business where the UK has a high cost base when it comes to building / land costs, taxes, wages, regulation and energy. High energy costs are currently driving many energy intensive / low margin businesses offshore, so the current CO2 plus more is produced elsewhere in countries like the US and China etc.
People have indeed written letters as mentioned. They have spoken to sales reps, who have spoken to area and site mangers, threatening to put work through other factories in the group.They where considered trouble makers when the European manager came down on them.
Re consultants, yes absolutely. There is not one single question he's asked, that hasn't been asked by the staff, and not one question he's asked that any other normal human with an ounce of common could and would ask. If the consultant can ask a sensible question, with zero experience of our particular business, then why can't the site manager?
IMO.... Because he doesn't have a basic development model in place.(no common sense) Why? No experience of our business.
Re closure, re moving the site, re cheap labour, re redundancy for all staff? Of course.
Only saving grace is, our customers are local. Ish. They need to be on site to pass approval. Not that we do that often enough either.
We need a cars iron production man who knows his stuff.
....actually. No. We've got 50 odd of those already.
-
advancement through trial and occasionally error
-
IME when mangement bring in external consultants it is because they are jobworths with no vision on how the business should be run. :(
.. or they have a difficult decision to make, but haven't got the balls, so they lead a consultant to the answer they want. ::)
-
IME when mangement bring in external consultants it is because they are jobworths with no vision on how the business should be run. :(
.. or they have a difficult decision to make, but haven't got the balls, so they lead a consultant to the answer they want. ::)
Yes, seen that one. And made the worst of the two decisions.
-
advancement through trial and occasionally error
Really simple isn't it.
-
Have you thought of writing a letter to the management on the problems and possible solutions signed by ALL of the people in your department? At the end of the day you are all in this together and if they relocate to a cheaper country for manufacturing, then all of you, including the management will be made redundant.
IME when mangement bring in external consultants it is because they are jobworths with no vision on how the business should be run. :(
Even if these ongoing problems are fixed, it still might be the right decision for the company to relocate the business where the UK has a high cost base when it comes to building / land costs, taxes, wages, regulation and energy. High energy costs are currently driving many energy intensive / low margin businesses offshore, so the current CO2 plus more is produced elsewhere in countries like the US and China etc.
People have indeed written letters as mentioned. They have spoken to sales reps, who have spoken to area and site mangers, threatening to put work through other factories in the group.They where considered trouble makers when the European manager came down on them.
Re consultants, yes absolutely. There is not one single question he's asked, that hasn't been asked by the staff, and not one question he's asked that any other normal human with an ounce of common could and would ask. If the consultant can ask a sensible question, with zero experience of our particular business, then why can't the site manager?
IMO.... Because he doesn't have a basic development model in place.(no common sense) Why? No experience of our business.
Re closure, re moving the site, re cheap labour, re redundancy for all staff? Of course.
Only saving grace is, our customers are local. Ish. They need to be on site to pass approval. Not that we do that often enough either.
We need a cars iron production man who knows his stuff.
....actually. No. We've got 50 odd of those already.
Thats why I suggested signed by everybody, then they can't single people out. Personally, I would give them a chance to resolve the situation and then start moving up the management chain, again collectively, if that then involves collectively, approaching the MD at your International HQ then so be it. He will only know the bullsh*t that he is being fed by your management. You are obviously concerned that they are going to close, so what have you got to lose? If despite the letter writing you get no where and they close you, the letters written and ignored could then get very awkward for the management explaining to the press why they were ignored. Good public company image to keep customer buying the goods is very important for businesses these days. If you have no customers you have no business!
Good management at whatever level the buck stops at are looking for employees that care and teamwork as it makes the business better. When I used to employ over 30 people, I used to get pizzas in once a month for a staff meeting and have an open floor for suggestions, criticism etc., a lot of good constructive comments used to come out of it and the staff used to feel good seeing their suggestions implemented. It is a win, win situation :y :y :y :y
-
I'm dreading adding anything else but heregoes...
Trying to see it from "their" perspective for a minute, do you feel, given what you've posted earlier, there is a sufficient market for this company in the UK (knowing nothing much about the industry, but making assumption that it can be done cheaper elsewhere, and sod the quality, no matter how shortsighted that may be)? Niche products/services, as your company provides, need to have better margins due to smaller market, or footfall in retail terms. Could this, in part, be an explanation of their seemingly different views? :-\. For me, alarm bells are ringing somewhere. Are they looking more for an exit, rather than long term success, assuming the market can sustain success?
If its a larger company, or multinational (I believe it is?), I suspect there have been a few phases of basically initiatives to learn from mistakes. These initiatives usually have different names to the previous one to do the same thing.
Often, once you get more than a few hundred employees, the targets for these initiatives often take precedence over actually achieving whats best for the company, as middle/senior mgrs. set their bonuses on these targets, rather than customer driven, profit driven targets. Shame, as a lot of these initiatives are based on good ideas. Poorly implemented.
//TB runs and hides, as he still hasn't a FC what gixer was on about earlier. Right door, left door, trapdoor, who gives a
Like I mentioned earlier. The writing is on the wall, so to speak.
If we're not successful in "new markets" there's a very big concern we will not survive. We can not continue to make the number of basic simple mistakes, that we are, and continue on regardless. Often producing jobs 2 or 3 times over until it's correct, when the profit margin is barely a 5th over cost. Where as before profit was double cost. So we could afford to cock it up without loss. Arguably equally criminal, but there we are.
Staff are aware of exit strategies, to an extent. Showing great concern on the lease on the building, and looking at what's being done long term instead of what's said.
Moral is low. No surprise there. Although we have just come through one of the worst recessions in living memory. So it's served its purpose there, and must of been doing something right where others failed.
-
So I would say. Step 1.Look for faults. Actively. Log them. Initiate testing even. Reproduce them separately, in order to be sure. Proritising probably. Starting to get vague now. ;D This is where things fail IMO. The current fashion in management, you've probably heard, is "Be positive". Ok good, heres a load of faults we need to fix. Says I. No, says he. I'm being negative. He says.At this stage, is it ok to punch your boss squarely in the face?
a list of faults ..
-
Apply it to this thread.
Kevs answer btw is not what I imagined. Why? Did I not explain it well enough. More than likely. Did he apply it to what he knows best. Quite possibly.
Probably got the point accross by now.
Might be ready for Mr Dtm now. If he can be arsed. ;D
Could I not..
-
Apply it to this thread.
Kevs answer btw is not what I imagined. Why? Did I not explain it well enough. More than likely. Did he apply it to what he knows best. Quite possibly.
Probably got the point accross by now.
Might be ready for Mr Dtm now. If he can be arsed. ;D
For me, and probably others I'd guess, the work environment can be extremely frustrating. The same old problems come up time and time again. Same job done wrong each time it comes through. So what did we do last time? We bodged it. Staff used their ingenuity to fix the fault and get the job through. It's not done correctly, it's not exactly to spec, it cost the company three times as much in time to do, but the customer accepted it and we got paid.
Where's the fault? Well, management don't know. Why? Lack of experience. But ultimately, they failed to implement a fault reporting system. Staff have no way of reporting back a fault. Result? Nobody fixes any faults. More jobs come though and back up the production process. Result less jobs done that day. Result? Less profit. Last 3 or 4 jobs of the day are delivered late because the fault held them up and they don't get done until the next day. Costs are incurred on late fees. The profit from the faulty job is lost, ten fold actually by the time up I add up the knock on effects. Result? Company goes bust. Or at best, is selling fivers for £4 and an accountant might spot it.
This is my world currently. We don't learn as a company. Why? Management see fault finding as a negative. So refuse to accept it stating we must keep looking forward. Ok great, how? No answer. Just keep looking forward.
Ffs. Looking forward is great, but in order to look forward effectively, first the passed needs to be accepted and learned from. Anything else is idiotic.
Now it may be that jobs come through "wrong" for a good reason. But unless you have an effective fault finding process in place, nobody will ever know what that reason is. Good bad or indifferent.
You say 'by the time I add up the knock on effects'. Is this part of your job or are you just surmising that this is what happens? If it is part of your job to collate the financial cost of delays through faulty workmanship, then you really need to bang some heads together.
If it is not part of your job the are you privy to the actual figures?
It's not part of my job as such. My job, all of our jobs, are way and above our position and pay. Not that management are aware.
We see the figures. But not in terms of pound notes, but in time. Time is money in our game. Which is basically production. We all leak over into management, engineering, cleaners, planners in order to get though the day. We have to.
What's kicked all this off is a consultant has been called in to look at our processes. He's basically confirmed almost everything we've said to him, and is up managements arse banging heads together as you say. Not literally but the result is the same.
Due to lack of experience, immaturity, pride, whatever, they are resisting and the company is not developing.
We can talk about the terminology, but we all know the process. Mostly. Its getting the pint across to those that don't get it. For me, it's doing it in an eloquent way that has the right result without blowing my top with frustration. My concern is that it seems SO simple to me, so simple that its doesn't need explaining, it's like walking up the road, that actually I'm assuming too much. That I've sniffed a fraction of info off the consultant and gone too far with it.
A little bit of info can be a dangerous thing. You need ALL the info to make a good decision. I'm out if my area certainly. But these people have my destiny in their control. My mortage. Life style etc. I want them to get it right.
so simple that it doesnt need
-
Well done cem. Your English is coming on well.
.... I said... Your iglazy ..... Very Good.
( But mines better. :D ;) ;D )