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[Lizzie_Zoom]

I think that the assertion that the government is deliberately targeting the weak, sick, disabled and helpless in a Nazi like fashion is pure BS!

I believe that the government have set out in good faith to reform the welfare system that has got so hideously expensive that the country cannot afford it in it's present form. Unfortunately for the likes of ozzycat, as is the way with governments of all colours, the reforms have been poorly planned and have dragged many of the deserving into the net. 

Some of the ideals behind the reforms such as a cap on a household income from benefits linked to an average wage is just common sense in my view and not fascism as some would have us believe.    For sure there will be cases where people need more for medical reasons and these cases should be rightly accommodated on a case by case basis.    One medical reason that shouldn't qualify for extra benefit money, in my view is lots of pregnancies! 

You may be right in believing a right wing link of that kind is OTT. You may be right that the government is purely trying to cut the over inflated welfare bill.  But their actions are actually producing a different outcome that is appearing to affect the weak of our society, those that are disabled, sick or mentally ill.  Intentions are one thing, but the factual outcome that now have scores of charities and welfare organisations up in arms, is quite another. Real people, as some on the Forum, are really suffering, being caused grave distress.  One minute they were being helped, then next certain parts of the assistance given to them is being taken away. 

It seems clear that the harder targets, like corporate organisations and very wealthy (powerful)  individuals, are being ignored by the government whilst going for the "easy" option.  That is not the society I wish to be part of, and will do my humble bit to stop. There are always two ways to skin a cat.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88

sorry nick but if i had that atitude i would deserve everything they could throw at me
ok yes i smoke but i only smoke 1/2 oz a week but its the last thing that we buy i dont drink yes i like a drink like most people but my liquid intake is limited to i ltr a day this is because of kidney failure and includes all liquid in food and drink you want to try it its hard i dont have sky i do have youveiw only because i dont pay for it my mother sometimes buys me some baccy it is a luxury not a necessity you try living on what i get a week its not alot but there is some benefits i can claim for but i dont as long as we can manage im happy this is my way of geting some solice  in saying im doing my bit it eases my cons once i do this not to shout about it but if you feel the way ido about living  off benefits it helps

Also ozzycat lets face it that women has her own mental health / personality disorder problems. She is not right and is unemployable in her current state.  She needs help, and shame on a TV station taking advantage and showing her in the light they have.  No, yet again, it is one part of society targeting the weakest and poorest in society to the delight of the Coalition.  Divide and conquer. It is sickening. Haul the millionaires and billionaires in front of the cameras who pay peanuts in taxes; oh, hang on they have the establishment in their pocket and after all are the elite!!

That's a guess on your part, isn't it, Lizzie? 

No, after being heavily involved in mental health care, direct, with the Police and CPS as an advisor, I can usually detect when someone has an "issue" that needs professional help.  That woman has issues.

[bored bigyin54]

thats why i signed the potition to make him live on £53 a week  you and i know he wont do it he spends morethan that on his tea break in a morning im afraid people like him distgust me im not against people having money good luck to them what he dose is rub it in peoples faces and makes statments like this with no intention of folowing them trough in my opinion hes a 2 faced  incomptant spoilt brat who likes saying look what ive got so break you im allright jack he was the same when he was leader of the con you party total wasre of a good skin

by the way did i say i dont like the bloke either sorry if i missed that bit out

he wont do it anyway all mouth 

[TheBoy]

As OOFers will already know, I don't have much time for any politicians, no matter what their colour.

However, I do think that the current tory mob (most of them) are trying to do the right thing, given the restrictions placed upon them.

Its absolutely no point being all wishy-washy when trying to radicially change big, burgeoning, broken departments. It has to be a "lets truely start again" approach, that everyone has to abide by. Trying to do it piecemeal, it just will not work, and become the beaurocratic nightmare that it already is.

The NHS desperately needs this kind of radical approach as well. And as per another thread, so does Royal Mail


We've spent too long - probably 15yrs or more - where benefits have become easier than work, and DLA has become too easy to wrangle. This is a situation where the genuinely needy become the minority 

We already know that both the welfare and NHS are currently unstainable. We know we cannot borrow more money than we already have planned over the next 4 years. So we have to make serious inroads to cutting spend.

[ozzycat]

totaly agree with you TB things cant go on the way they are but they need to look at what it is doing to people like me who cant go to work and earn out of the problem though id love to there way is a good one but not enough thought has gone into the effects it is having on the weakest in society   just a litle bit of savey would have had people like me supporting these changes what dosent help there cause is prats like IDS shouting his mouth off when we all know hes not going to do what he preaches

[TheBoy]

totaly agree with you TB things cant go on the way they are but they need to look at what it is doing to people like me who cant go to work and earn out of the problem though id love to there way is a good one but not enough thought has gone into the effects it is having on the weakest in society   just a litle bit of savey would have had people like me supporting these changes what dosent help there cause is prats like IDS shouting his mouth off when we all know hes not going to do what he preaches

The numbers involved are so large, that a genuine case-by-case basis is not feasible. That many reassessments, and all the pen pushing around that, it wouldn't work, and things would stay as they are.

I sincerely hope that once this is implemented, they can start on a case by case reassessment of the genuinely needy, only be much harser on the assessments than they have been over the last 15yrs or so.

[TheBoy]

But as a blanket set of simple-ish rules, I think this is a good start to work from.

[cleggy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88

sorry nick but if i had that atitude i would deserve everything they could throw at me
ok yes i smoke but i only smoke 1/2 oz a week but its the last thing that we buy i dont drink yes i like a drink like most people but my liquid intake is limited to i ltr a day this is because of kidney failure and includes all liquid in food and drink you want to try it its hard i dont have sky i do have youveiw only because i dont pay for it my mother sometimes buys me some baccy it is a luxury not a necessity you try living on what i get a week its not alot but there is some benefits i can claim for but i dont as long as we can manage im happy this is my way of geting some solice  in saying im doing my bit it eases my cons once i do this not to shout about it but if you feel the way ido about living  off benefits it helps

Also ozzycat lets face it that women has her own mental health / personality disorder problems. She is not right and is unemployable in her current state.  She needs help, and shame on a TV station taking advantage and showing her in the light they have.  No, yet again, it is one part of society targeting the weakest and poorest in society to the delight of the Coalition.  Divide and conquer. It is sickening. Haul the millionaires and billionaires in front of the cameras who pay peanuts in taxes; oh, hang on they have the establishment in their pocket and after all are the elite!!

That's a guess on your part, isn't it, Lizzie? 

No, after being heavily involved in mental health care, direct, with the Police and CPS as an advisor, I can usually detect when someone has an "issue" that needs professional help.  That woman has issues.

Give her help, clense the gene pool

[Lizzie_Zoom]

totaly agree with you TB things cant go on the way they are but they need to look at what it is doing to people like me who cant go to work and earn out of the problem though id love to there way is a good one but not enough thought has gone into the effects it is having on the weakest in society   just a litle bit of savey would have had people like me supporting these changes what dosent help there cause is prats like IDS shouting his mouth off when we all know hes not going to do what he preaches

The numbers involved are so large, that a genuine case-by-case basis is not feasible. That many reassessments, and all the pen pushing around that, it wouldn't work, and things would stay as they are.

I sincerely hope that once this is implemented, they can start on a case by case reassessment of the genuinely needy, only be much harser on the assessments than they have been over the last 15yrs or so.

But that is exactly what they are trying to do, by using a company, ATOL, who have proved themselves to be incompetent, inefficient, and not even able to finalise their reports for the DWP using what they have in front of them as fact. The policy seems to be rule out as many claimants as possible even when someone is seriously disabled, then leave them to appeal going through reams of paperwork, tribunal hearings over months.  ATOL are costing millions yet producing a lack of logical and accurate assessment with two thirds of appeals being upheld to the claimants advantage.  Their back to work schemes have also been a farce, with individuals being found "employment" that doesn't suit the individual or company involved. The Claimant gets £300 for taking the new job, only to be back as unemployed in a very short time, to then start the process off agian with yet another £300 paid. ATOS gain great profit, the claimant gains some useful cash, but no meaningful employment is actually achieved for the claimant.

It is a mess, and a result of bad management by the government, and of course the thousands of highly paid civil servants at the top pushing paper!

As stated before, very real grief is being caused to people genuinely in need for whatever reason, whilst the government are achieving little, apart from a guaranteed defeat at the next general election in 2015 (if they last that long!!)

[Lizzie_Zoom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88

sorry nick but if i had that atitude i would deserve everything they could throw at me
ok yes i smoke but i only smoke 1/2 oz a week but its the last thing that we buy i dont drink yes i like a drink like most people but my liquid intake is limited to i ltr a day this is because of kidney failure and includes all liquid in food and drink you want to try it its hard i dont have sky i do have youveiw only because i dont pay for it my mother sometimes buys me some baccy it is a luxury not a necessity you try living on what i get a week its not alot but there is some benefits i can claim for but i dont as long as we can manage im happy this is my way of geting some solice  in saying im doing my bit it eases my cons once i do this not to shout about it but if you feel the way ido about living  off benefits it helps

Also ozzycat lets face it that women has her own mental health / personality disorder problems. She is not right and is unemployable in her current state.  She needs help, and shame on a TV station taking advantage and showing her in the light they have.  No, yet again, it is one part of society targeting the weakest and poorest in society to the delight of the Coalition.  Divide and conquer. It is sickening. Haul the millionaires and billionaires in front of the cameras who pay peanuts in taxes; oh, hang on they have the establishment in their pocket and after all are the elite!!

That's a guess on your part, isn't it, Lizzie? 

No, after being heavily involved in mental health care, direct, with the Police and CPS as an advisor, I can usually detect when someone has an "issue" that needs professional help.  That woman has issues.

Give her help, clense the gene pool

I hope you are joking Cleggy, as that is exactly the kind of Nazi sentiment I am warning about.   Yes, give her help and give all the others assistance with their lives.

[cleggy]

Tongue in cheek Lizzie, but where do all there retards come from?
What help can they be given? Jusy enough vouchers for food and heating we can't afford to pay for their habits and luxuries

[STMO123]

totaly agree with you TB things cant go on the way they are but they need to look at what it is doing to people like me who cant go to work and earn out of the problem though id love to there way is a good one but not enough thought has gone into the effects it is having on the weakest in society   just a litle bit of savey would have had people like me supporting these changes what dosent help there cause is prats like IDS shouting his mouth off when we all know hes not going to do what he preaches

The numbers involved are so large, that a genuine case-by-case basis is not feasible. That many reassessments, and all the pen pushing around that, it wouldn't work, and things would stay as they are.

I sincerely hope that once this is implemented, they can start on a case by case reassessment of the genuinely needy, only be much harser on the assessments than they have been over the last 15yrs or so.

But that is exactly what they are trying to do, by using a company, ATOL, who have proved themselves to be incompetent, inefficient, and not even able to finalise their reports for the DWP using what they have in front of them as fact. The policy seems to be rule out as many claimants as possible even when someone is seriously disabled, then leave them to appeal going through reams of paperwork, tribunal hearings over months.  ATOL are costing millions yet producing a lack of logical and accurate assessment with two thirds of appeals being upheld to the claimants advantage.  Their back to work schemes have also been a farce, with individuals being found "employment" that doesn't suit the individual or company involved. The Claimant gets £300 for taking the new job, only to be back as unemployed in a very short time, to then start the process off agian with yet another £300 paid. ATOS gain great profit, the claimant gains some useful cash, but no meaningful employment is actually achieved for the claimant.

It is a mess, and a result of bad management by the government, and of course the thousands of highly paid civil servants at the top pushing paper!

As stated before, very real grief is being caused to people genuinely in need for whatever reason, whilst the government are achieving little, apart from a guaranteed defeat at the next general election in 2015 (if they last that long!!)

ATOL or ATOS?

[albitz]

Ever thought of a career in proof reading Steve ? 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

totaly agree with you TB things cant go on the way they are but they need to look at what it is doing to people like me who cant go to work and earn out of the problem though id love to there way is a good one but not enough thought has gone into the effects it is having on the weakest in society   just a litle bit of savey would have had people like me supporting these changes what dosent help there cause is prats like IDS shouting his mouth off when we all know hes not going to do what he preaches

The numbers involved are so large, that a genuine case-by-case basis is not feasible. That many reassessments, and all the pen pushing around that, it wouldn't work, and things would stay as they are.

I sincerely hope that once this is implemented, they can start on a case by case reassessment of the genuinely needy, only be much harser on the assessments than they have been over the last 15yrs or so.

But that is exactly what they are trying to do, by using a company, ATOL, who have proved themselves to be incompetent, inefficient, and not even able to finalise their reports for the DWP using what they have in front of them as fact. The policy seems to be rule out as many claimants as possible even when someone is seriously disabled, then leave them to appeal going through reams of paperwork, tribunal hearings over months.  ATOL are costing millions yet producing a lack of logical and accurate assessment with two thirds of appeals being upheld to the claimants advantage.  Their back to work schemes have also been a farce, with individuals being found "employment" that doesn't suit the individual or company involved. The Claimant gets £300 for taking the new job, only to be back as unemployed in a very short time, to then start the process off agian with yet another £300 paid. ATOS gain great profit, the claimant gains some useful cash, but no meaningful employment is actually achieved for the claimant.

It is a mess, and a result of bad management by the government, and of course the thousands of highly paid civil servants at the top pushing paper!

As stated before, very real grief is being caused to people genuinely in need for whatever reason, whilst the government are achieving little, apart from a guaranteed defeat at the next general election in 2015 (if they last that long!!)

ATOL or ATOS?

ATOS Steve, but when I was typing I was thinking of flying away from it all to somewhere hot!

[TheBoy]

What help can they be given? Jusy enough vouchers for food and heating we can't afford to pay for their habits and luxuries

I was queuing in the bank in Bletchley earlier in the week, and having to listen to a pair of fat slags grumbling about the bedroom tax thing, and how they need 3 bed houses for their (probably fatherless) children. Sounded like at least one of them only had one little brat. And would you believe that one of them rang for a taxi to pick them up from a pizza take away in about 20mins, and take her to her house about a mile away. Looked like she had a smartphone.

The poor cashier then had to listen to one of them bore her about how she wasn't going to be able to survive .

Although frustrated that these fat slags, who clearly didn't work, decided to visit the bank at lunchtime, and delay me, I thought I had the last laugh thinking that pizza and taxi would explain their weight problem.

Anyway, I paid the cheque in that I was there for, walked out of the bank, to see the two fat slags smoking outside.