Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Nickbat on 24 August 2013, 22:47:38
-
Is it just me that is beginning to get a tad concerned about Hague/Obama et al ramping up the ante for a military response to the chemical attack in Syria? :o
Is it just me that has serious doubts as to who exactly launched the attack? ???
Just asking...
-
Assad is ruthless but not stupid.
Even he knows that if you stick two fingers up at the UN for long enough, uncle sam and his chums will come and get you sooner or later. Look what happened to Saddam ;)
That is why I just don't think he is stupid enough to use chemical weapons right on his own doorstep when the inspectors are in town :-\
So the question is .............. IF they have been deployed, Who is behind it ?
Chemical weapons are a nightmare to use.
You don't just take the top of a rocket and fill the things up.
The chemicals are corosive as hell so you don't want them lying around in the back of a truck so I just don't believe the so called rebels are using them on themselfs.
Another angle .......... Who is it that Assad has sworn to wipe of the face of the earth ?
Those bastians of fair play, Israel :-\
For me, Obama and his yapping poodle Hague have somebody else doing the dirty work on this one and pushing the worlds simpathy buttons because the last thing either country needs is being forced to put boots on the ground ;) ;)
-
Is it just me that is beginning to get a tad concerned about Hague/Obama et al ramping up the ante for a military response to the chemical attack in Syria? :o
Is it just me that has serious doubts as to who exactly launched the attack? ???
Just asking...
you are not lonely.. here some tvs showed and alarmed that syrian free army of ars*h*les got some gas from somewhere else and going to use it to start a general war >:(
-
Assad is ruthless but not stupid.
Even he knows that if you stick two fingers up at the UN for long enough, uncle sam and his chums will come and get you sooner or later. Look what happened to Saddam ;)
That is why I just don't think he is stupid enough to use chemical weapons right on his own doorstep when the inspectors are in town :-\
So the question is .............. IF they have been deployed, Who is behind it ?
Chemical weapons are a nightmare to use.
You don't just take the top of a rocket and fill the things up.
The chemicals are corosive as hell so you don't want them lying around in the back of a truck so I just don't believe the so called rebels are using them on themselfs.
Another angle .......... Who is it that Assad has sworn to wipe of the face of the earth ?
Those bastians of fair play, Israel :-\
For me, Obama and his yapping poodle Hague have somebody else doing the dirty work on this one and pushing the worlds simpathy buttons because the last thing either country needs is being forced to put boots on the ground ;) ;)
good question.. who always profits from war ? who profited from war ?
I think most members here know the answers..
-
I think their are two possibilities here. Al Qaeda are behind the chemical attack to try and create a response against Assad or even better in their eyes an East-West conflict, which they would hope to benefit from. The alternative is where Assad has had no action taken against him in the past from now confirmed gas attacks (but again it could be either side) and he has deliberately provoked a response from the west and if it is not forthcoming he will use it as a green light for a much bigger use of chemical weapons to bring the war to a swift conclusion.
Which of these is it, I don't know, but Assad and Al Qaeda both don't care how many people are killed and how much collateral damage is caused as long as it furthers their aims and stranglehold on Syria. Personally, I think the measured response from Obuma at this time is the right one of no action until it is clarified who is responsible. If it is Assad then I think B2 deep penetration bombing attacks on some of his command structure bunkers would be the correct response, at the same time letting him know that their is one with his name and bunker location on it if he uses them again. If it is Al Qaeda then the use of drones and decapitation attacks on their leaders is the right response. USAF have plenty of experience with this tactic in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen.
Sadly, like so often in wars, innocent civilians are dragged into the conflict and are maimed and killed. :'(
-
Assad may be gambling on the fact that the public in the U.S. / U.K. and the west in general are in no mood for their countries to get involved in yet another long messy war in the middle east ? :-\
-
If Al Qaeda, Who is supplying them ?
Iran :-\
Haven't they just elected a new leader who is a moderate and wants to smooth things over with the west ?
Not the sort of thing that goes down well in washington
-
Assad may be gambling on the fact that the public in the U.S. / U.K. and the west in general are in no mood for their countries to get involved in yet another long messy war in the middle east ? :-\
Maybe I am wrong, but many have said that the government forces have had the upper hand recently, so resorting to chemical weapons was not necessary. Also, the area concerned is still in rebel hands, so where was the military reasoning behind the attack? I am beginning to think "false flag", but I may be wrong. Either way, despite the horror of the deaths, who are the US and UK to go marching in there? >:(
Let the UN sort this out.
-
Assad may be gambling on the fact that the public in the U.S. / U.K. and the west in general are in no mood for their countries to get involved in yet another long messy war in the middle east ? :-\
Maybe I am wrong, but many have said that the government forces have had the upper hand recently, so resorting to chemical weapons was not necessary. Also, the area concerned is still in rebel hands, so where was the military reasoning behind the attack? I am beginning to think "false flag", but I may be wrong. Either way, despite the horror of the deaths, who are the US and UK to go marching in there? >:(
Let the UN sort this out.
F*ck yeh
Send for Hans Blix ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Assad may be gambling on the fact that the public in the U.S. / U.K. and the west in general are in no mood for their countries to get involved in yet another long messy war in the middle east ? :-\
Maybe I am wrong, but many have said that the government forces have had the upper hand recently, so resorting to chemical weapons was not necessary. Also, the area concerned is still in rebel hands, so where was the military reasoning behind the attack? I am beginning to think "false flag", but I may be wrong. Either way, despite the horror of the deaths, who are the US and UK to go marching in there? >:(
Let the UN sort this out.
F*ck yeh
Send for Hans Blix ;D ;D ;D ;D
Better than this:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/24/syria-cameron-obama-intervention?CMP=twt_fd (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/24/syria-cameron-obama-intervention?CMP=twt_fd)
-
Yep a job for the UN,no matter how useless they are imo. Every time the U.S. / U.K. etc. jump into the middle of arabs doing what arabs do to each other we make a bad situation much worse imo.
A lot of politics being posted tonight. Tut tut. ::)
-
Yep a job for the UN,no matter how useless they are imo. Every time the U.S. / U.K. etc. jump into the middle of arabs doing what arabs do to each other we make a bad situation much worse imo.
A lot of politics being posted tonight. Tut tut. ::)
Yes they are, but these times call for uselessness. With Russia and Syria claiming that the rebels attacked and with Britain and the US saying it was the Assad regime, it's time for a long drawn-out investigation. Far better than going to war there, IMHO.
-
Yep a job for the UN,no matter how useless they are imo. Every time the U.S. / U.K. etc. jump into the middle of arabs doing what arabs do to each other we make a bad situation much worse imo.
A lot of politics being posted tonight. Tut tut. ::)
Yes they are, but these times call for uselessness. With Russia and Syria claiming that the rebels attacked and with Britain and the US saying it was the Assad regime, it's time for a long drawn-out investigation. Far better than going to war there, IMHO.
Serious head on for a moment ................ agree 100% with you on that :y
The last thing we need is boots on the ground in a middle eastern country now or ever again.
Just dig a moat / build a wall around the lot of them and leave them to kill themselfs off ;)
-
Yep a job for the UN,no matter how useless they are imo. Every time the U.S. / U.K. etc. jump into the middle of arabs doing what arabs do to each other we make a bad situation much worse imo.
A lot of politics being posted tonight. Tut tut. ::)
Yes they are, but these times call for uselessness. With Russia and Syria claiming that the rebels attacked and with Britain and the US saying it was the Assad regime, it's time for a long drawn-out investigation. Far better than going to war there, IMHO.
That's why I think we need to be 100% certain who is behind the chemical attack and then I think the correct response would be bombing raids and / or drone attacks on the guilty leadership.
The West will have to do something to punish the side involved to show we will not sit on the sidelines and allow banned weapons to be used. Is the use of these weapons behind the US Al Qaeda warnings in Yemen and North Africa a few weeks ago?
-
Yep a job for the UN,no matter how useless they are imo. Every time the U.S. / U.K. etc. jump into the middle of arabs doing what arabs do to each other we make a bad situation much worse imo.
A lot of politics being posted tonight. Tut tut. ::)
Yes they are, but these times call for uselessness. With Russia and Syria claiming that the rebels attacked and with Britain and the US saying it was the Assad regime, it's time for a long drawn-out investigation. Far better than going to war there, IMHO.
Serious head on for a moment ................ agree 100% with you on that :y
The last thing we need is boots on the ground in a middle eastern country now or ever again.
Just dig a moat / build a wall around the lot of them and leave them to kill themselfs off ;)
I just hope we keep our snout out of this. :y
Hague just wants to be the tough guy, it comes from him being bullied at school ;)
-
Assad may be gambling on the fact that the public in the U.S. / U.K. and the west in general are in no mood for their countries to get involved in yet another long messy war in the middle east ? :-\
nope.. he is not mad .. and enough clever not to go into more trouble..
-
I think their are two possibilities here. Al Qaeda are behind the chemical attack to try and create a response against Assad or even better in their eyes an East-West conflict, which they would hope to benefit from. The alternative is where Assad has had no action taken against him in the past from now confirmed gas attacks (but again it could be either side) and he has deliberately provoked a response from the west and if it is not forthcoming he will use it as a green light for a much bigger use of chemical weapons to bring the war to a swift conclusion.
Which of these is it, I don't know, but Assad and Al Qaeda both don't care how many people are killed and how much collateral damage is caused as long as it furthers their aims and stranglehold on Syria. Personally, I think the measured response from Obuma at this time is the right one of no action until it is clarified who is responsible. If it is Assad then I think B2 deep penetration bombing attacks on some of his command structure bunkers would be the correct response, at the same time letting him know that their is one with his name and bunker location on it if he uses them again. If it is Al Qaeda then the use of drones and decapitation attacks on their leaders is the right response. USAF have plenty of experience with this tactic in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen.
Sadly, like so often in wars, innocent civilians are dragged into the conflict and are maimed and killed. :'(
All agreed there Rods2 :y
Indeed, Assad would not be the first dictator to be a gambler, a chancer, who gambles and takes military action to see what the response will be. No response, and yes he will do more........a lot more!
We joked about the build up of a Royal Navy fleet (task force?) going to Gibraltar in response to Spain's strange ways recently, but now perhaps we can see what the real, very serious, objective was. ;)
In this World there will always be big risks, especially when democratic countries of the west face up to dictators in the East. Can we stand by though and let mass killings take place, regardless of who causes such acts in the 21st century? Don't we have a duty to fellow mankind to take action? Remember also that we have thousands of British Syrians living in our country who are pleading for some form of action to stop these outrages. Of course, the West will be damned if we do, and damned if we don't. But such is life. :( :(
-
Its not our war, dosnt concern us, leave it and let the Arabs sort it out,
Also who is to say that asssad is the baddy, seems that when the west intervene and remove the person in charge it gets worse.
-
Its not our war, dosnt concern us, leave it and let the Arabs sort it out,
Also who is to say that asssad is the baddy, seems that when the west intervene and remove the person in charge it gets worse.
Indeed. I wouldn't be surprised if more people have died Post-Arab Spring than in the decade before. Both Egypt and Iraq are far more dangerous for the average citizen than before the removal of the dictators. ::)
We are not the world's policeman and for every Syrian that would like us and the US to interven militarily there is one who would not want us anywhere near.
-
Its not our war, dosnt concern us, leave it and let the Arabs sort it out,
Also who is to say that asssad is the baddy, seems that when the west intervene and remove the person in charge it gets worse.
Indeed. I wouldn't be surprised if more people have died Post-Arab Spring than in the decade before. Both Egypt and Iraq are far more dangerous for the average citizen than before the removal of the dictators. ::)
We are not the world's policeman and for every Syrian that would like us and the US to interven militarily there is one who would not want us anywhere near.
bang on Nickbat.. and all agreed :y :y :y
-
I think their are two possibilities here. Al Qaeda are behind the chemical attack to try and create a response against Assad or even better in their eyes an East-West conflict, which they would hope to benefit from. The alternative is where Assad has had no action taken against him in the past from now confirmed gas attacks (but again it could be either side) and he has deliberately provoked a response from the west and if it is not forthcoming he will use it as a green light for a much bigger use of chemical weapons to bring the war to a swift conclusion.
Which of these is it, I don't know, but Assad and Al Qaeda both don't care how many people are killed and how much collateral damage is caused as long as it furthers their aims and stranglehold on Syria. Personally, I think the measured response from Obuma at this time is the right one of no action until it is clarified who is responsible. If it is Assad then I think B2 deep penetration bombing attacks on some of his command structure bunkers would be the correct response, at the same time letting him know that their is one with his name and bunker location on it if he uses them again. If it is Al Qaeda then the use of drones and decapitation attacks on their leaders is the right response. USAF have plenty of experience with this tactic in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen.
Sadly, like so often in wars, innocent civilians are dragged into the conflict and are maimed and killed. :'(
All agreed there Rods2 :y
Indeed, Assad would not be the first dictator to be a gambler, a chancer, who gambles and takes military action to see what the response will be. No response, and yes he will do more........a lot more!
We joked about the build up of a Royal Navy fleet (task force?) going to Gibraltar in response to Spain's strange ways recently, but now perhaps we can see what the real, very serious, objective was. ;)
In this World there will always be big risks, especially when democratic countries of the west face up to dictators in the East. Can we stand by though and let mass killings take place, regardless of who causes such acts in the 21st century? Don't we have a duty to fellow mankind to take action? Remember also that we have thousands of British Syrians living in our country who are pleading for some form of action to stop these outrages. Of course, the West will be damned if we do, and damned if we don't. But such is life. :( :(
Hitler comes to mind of gamblers that were not stopped. He gambled on the remilitarization of the Rhineland would bring no response from France and Britain even though it was a blatant violation of the Treaty of Versailles. Hitler took this as a green light for annexing Austria and Czechoslovakia and then finally the step too far of Poland.
I think there were four objectives for the task force, a show of force in Gibraltar, a task force near Egypt in case UK nationals need to be evacuated, Syria and our anti-piracy commitments on the horn of Africa.
In the 19th and the first half of the 20th century the UK was the world's policeman, since then it has been the Americans and I think there is a moral duty to enforce the rules banning the use of chemical and biological weapons. I think this can be done from the air as I don't want to see US or UK troops on the ground there. In the last 15 years the UK has been involved in too many wars of dubious origin.
-
I think there is a moral duty to enforce the rules banning the use of chemical and biological weapons. I think this can be done from the air as I don't want to see US or UK troops on the ground there. In the last 15 years the UK has been involved in too many wars of dubious origin.
You can't enforce the rules until you know who broke them. Seems to me Camoron and Hague have already made up their mind, based on no factual evidence. >:( >:(
-
I think there is a moral duty to enforce the rules banning the use of chemical and biological weapons. I think this can be done from the air as I don't want to see US or UK troops on the ground there. In the last 15 years the UK has been involved in too many wars of dubious origin.
You can't enforce the rules until you know who broke them. Seems to me Camoron and Hague have already made up their mind, based on no factual evidence. >:( >:(
I agree, the Syrians have now given permission for UN to visit area, but both sides have had 5 days to fabricate and hide evidence, so I'm not sure they will find out anyway. :(
I'm keeping an open mind until it can be conclusively proven who the guilty parties are.
-
I think there is a moral duty to enforce the rules banning the use of chemical and biological weapons. I think this can be done from the air as I don't want to see US or UK troops on the ground there. In the last 15 years the UK has been involved in too many wars of dubious origin.
You can't enforce the rules until you know who broke them. Seems to me Camoron and Hague have already made up their mind, based on no factual evidence. >:( >:(
Nick , I'm afraid they dont need evidence.. they just gave one to the masses to be busy :(
-
The Middle East explained in one concise letter:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/the-middle-east-explained-in-one-excellent-letter-to-the-edi (http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/the-middle-east-explained-in-one-excellent-letter-to-the-edi)
Exactly. :y
I also see that Cameron and Hague are getting generally slated in most of the comments I have read today. Quite rightly so. >:( >:( >:( >:(
-
Which of these is it, I don't know, but Assad and Al Qaeda both don't care how many people are killed and how much collateral damage is caused as long as it furthers their aims and stranglehold on Syria. Personally, I think the measured response from Obuma at this time is the right one of no action until it is clarified who is responsible. If it is Assad then I think B2 deep penetration bombing attacks on some of his command structure bunkers would be the correct response, at the same time letting him know that their is one with his name and bunker location on it if he uses them again. If it is Al Qaeda then the use of drones and decapitation attacks on their leaders is the right response. USAF have plenty of experience with this tactic in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen.
Sadly, like so often in wars, innocent civilians are dragged into the conflict and are maimed and killed. :'(
All agreed there Rods2 :y
Indeed, Assad would not be the first dictator to be a gambler, a chancer, who gambles and takes military action to see what the response will be. No response, and yes he will do more........a lot more!
We joked about the build up of a Royal Navy fleet (task force?) going to Gibraltar in response to Spain's strange ways recently, but now perhaps we can see what the real, very serious, objective was. ;)
In this World there will always be big risks, especially when democratic countries of the west face up to dictators in the East. Can we stand by though and let mass killings take place, regardless of who causes such acts in the 21st century? Don't we have a duty to fellow mankind to take action? Remember also that we have thousands of British Syrians living in our country who are pleading for some form of action to stop these outrages. Of course, the West will be damned if we do, and damned if we don't. But such is life. :( :(
Hitler comes to mind of gamblers that were not stopped. He gambled on the remilitarization of the Rhineland would bring no response from France and Britain even though it was a blatant violation of the Treaty of Versailles. Hitler took this as a green light for annexing Austria and Czechoslovakia and then finally the step too far of Poland.
I think there were four objectives for the task force, a show of force in Gibraltar, a task force near Egypt in case UK nationals need to be evacuated, Syria and our anti-piracy commitments on the horn of Africa.
In the 19th and the first half of the 20th century the UK was the world's policeman, since then it has been the Americans and I think there is a moral duty to enforce the rules banning the use of chemical and biological weapons. I think this can be done from the air as I don't want to see US or UK troops on the ground there. In the last 15 years the UK has been involved in too many wars of dubious origin.
Not surprisingly Rods2 you came to the main dictator I was eluding to, although there have been others! :D :D :D :D :y
However, I, and I am sure you, are not suggesting we are dealing with someone like Hitler with true international inspirations for power. But I am certainly warning that we cannot, nor must not, allow some two bit dictator to use internationally banned weapons against their own people without justice being exerted on them.
International Law however is toothless (a statement that get me into a deep discussion at uni with a internationally respected Professor who thinks differently!) and in my humble opinion MUST be enforced by international partners under the UN banner. But it takes the one superpower, the USA, and others like Britain with a military capacity to back up the former, to "make the aggressor an offer they cannot refuse". That is what has to be done. It is not perfect; never will be, and it carries risks. But the onus is on the great powers to enforce discipline on the minor power, like the parent does with a child. If they do not then it teaches Assad, and other wannabe dictators hungry for power at any cost, that such action as releasing chemical weapons on civilians, let alone mankind generally, will go unpunished and they can go on doing this, or worse, without fear of retaliation.
Going back to Hitler; yes, if only Britain had had the military power to react to the invasion of Czechoslovakia by his forces, then history could have been very different. That is the lesson the World has learnt. You cannot allow a political gambler to get away with atrocities against mankind. In a minor way Maggie Thatcher made sure of that over the Falklands. In a major way, the USA's stance during the Cold War with the USSR ensured full scale war never happened due to both sides understanding what would be the penalty for entering into such a conflict.
This is what Assad must be taught. He cannot get away with it, no more than any other power hungry menace.
Was Assad responsible for the gas attack? I believe now there are enough witnesses on the ground, including operatives from Britain, USA and other countries, who are convinced it was. Assad is the one with heavy military hardware. He is the one who is known to have been bombarding his own populations with heavy shells. He is the head of the country, and must be made to pay. The World must not allow him to get away with these acts by blaming weaker opponents, like Hitler blamed the Jews for the firing of the Reichstag!
-
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/middleeast_zps1d9ac655.jpg)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
I think there were four objectives for the task force, a show of force in Gibraltar, a task force near Egypt in case UK nationals need to be evacuated, Syria and our anti-piracy commitments on the horn of Africa.
BEEEEEEEEEEEEEP!!
Thank you for calling the MOD, the Head Office of the UK's Armed Forces. We are sorry that no one is available to take your call at the moment, your call is important to us and we will be with you once we have finished all previous calls with the talking clock.
In the meantime, if you wish to speak with one of the following departments select from the following options. Please note that due to summer leave many departments will be on reduced staffing.......
......press 1 to speak to Cpl Jones, Head of the 8 strong British Army.
......press 2 to speak to SAC Smith and his 2 man remote controlled plane team, AKA the RAF.
......unfortunately Leading hand Baxter and the Royal Navy's dinghy is out on combat operations in the local lake but it is expected he will return before Tea and toast is served in the mess.
-
This is what Assad must be taught. He cannot get away with it, no more than any other power hungry menace.
Was Assad responsible for the gas attack? I believe now there are enough witnesses on the ground, including operatives from Britain, USA and other countries, who are convinced want you to think it was. Assad is the one with heavy military hardware. He is the one who is known to have been bombarding his own populations with heavy shells. He is the head of the country, and must be made to pay. The World must not allow him to get away with these acts by blaming weaker opponents, like Hitler blamed the Jews for the firing of the Reichstag!
Fixed that for you, Lizzie. ;)
Seriously, though, there is no hard evidence to point the finger at either side. Therefore, we MUST stay out of it. >:(
-
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/middleeast_zps1d9ac655.jpg)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Great post. Thanks.
The West will of course do whatever they feel will be the best for the West. Sadly we have seen that more than once. Have they for example decided what to do about Egypt and the huge(military) aid? I just hope that they don't botch it (yet again)
-
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/middleeast_zps1d9ac655.jpg)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Great post. Thanks.
The West will of course do whatever they feel will be the best for the West. Sadly we have seen that more than once. Have they for example decided what to do about Egypt and the huge(military) aid? I just hope that they don't botch it (yet again)
:y
I wish I could say the same for my country, but sadly our foreign politics is 10 failure out of 10 without exception.. >:(
in nearly 90 republic years this country was never managed like that.. And I fear it will go worse :(
-
Just like Iraq, go in shoot em all up, topple the leader and replace the it with errrr, a figure head. Just going to turn into another mess, break down into all out war again.
Let Arabs deal with it, it's their mess.
-
This is what Assad must be taught. He cannot get away with it, no more than any other power hungry menace.
Was Assad responsible for the gas attack? I believe now there are enough witnesses on the ground, including operatives from Britain, USA and other countries, who are convinced want you to think it was. Assad is the one with heavy military hardware. He is the one who is known to have been bombarding his own populations with heavy shells. He is the head of the country, and must be made to pay. The World must not allow him to get away with these acts by blaming weaker opponents, like Hitler blamed the Jews for the firing of the Reichstag!
Fixed that for you, Lizzie. ;)
Seriously, though, there is no hard evidence to point the finger at either side. Therefore, we MUST stay out of it. >:(
Yes there is, although the Syrian Army have shelled the area where more evidence existed; Assad refused to let the UN inspectors enter the area, although now they have been allowed to have been shot at by snipers. Assad resisted any inspection; the "rebels" did the opposite and guaranteed safe passage for the inspectors. In addition respected commentators /witnesses have stated only Assad forces had the ability to launch such a widespread horrific attack on their own people, just as Saddam Hussein once did against the Kurds. Only a dictator could kill in their hundreds fellow Syrian people. It is naive to think otherwise, but is of course exactly what Assad wants outsiders to think, as previous dictators have tried to do to cover their political actions. ;)
-
This is what Assad must be taught. He cannot get away with it, no more than any other power hungry menace.
Was Assad responsible for the gas attack? I believe now there are enough witnesses on the ground, including operatives from Britain, USA and other countries, who are convinced want you to think it was. Assad is the one with heavy military hardware. He is the one who is known to have been bombarding his own populations with heavy shells. He is the head of the country, and must be made to pay. The World must not allow him to get away with these acts by blaming weaker opponents, like Hitler blamed the Jews for the firing of the Reichstag!
Fixed that for you, Lizzie. ;)
Seriously, though, there is no hard evidence to point the finger at either side. Therefore, we MUST stay out of it. >:(
Yes there is, although the Syrian Army have shelled the area where more evidence existed; Assad refused to let the UN inspectors enter the area, although now they have been allowed to have been shot at by snipers. Assad resisted any inspection; the "rebels" did the opposite and guaranteed safe passage for the inspectors. In addition respected commentators /witnesses have stated only Assad forces had the ability to launch such a widespread horrific attack on their own people, just as Saddam Hussein once did against the Kurds. Only a dictator could kill in their hundreds fellow Syrian people. It is naive to think otherwise, but is of course exactly what Assad wants outsiders to think, as previous dictators have tried to do to cover their political actions. ;)
Where was your righteous indignation in May, Lizzie? ::) ::)
U.N. human rights investigators have gathered testimony from casualties of Syria's civil war and medical staff indicating that rebel forces have used the nerve agent sarin, one of the lead investigators said on Sunday.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/05/us-syria-crisis-un-idUSBRE94409Z20130505 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/05/us-syria-crisis-un-idUSBRE94409Z20130505)
-
This is what Assad must be taught. He cannot get away with it, no more than any other power hungry menace.
Was Assad responsible for the gas attack? I believe now there are enough witnesses on the ground, including operatives from Britain, USA and other countries, who are convinced want you to think it was. Assad is the one with heavy military hardware. He is the one who is known to have been bombarding his own populations with heavy shells. He is the head of the country, and must be made to pay. The World must not allow him to get away with these acts by blaming weaker opponents, like Hitler blamed the Jews for the firing of the Reichstag!
Fixed that for you, Lizzie. ;)
Seriously, though, there is no hard evidence to point the finger at either side. Therefore, we MUST stay out of it. >:(
Yes there is, although the Syrian Army have shelled the area where more evidence existed; Assad refused to let the UN inspectors enter the area, although now they have been allowed to have been shot at by snipers. Assad resisted any inspection; the "rebels" did the opposite and guaranteed safe passage for the inspectors. In addition respected commentators /witnesses have stated only Assad forces had the ability to launch such a widespread horrific attack on their own people, just as Saddam Hussein once did against the Kurds. Only a dictator could kill in their hundreds fellow Syrian people. It is naive to think otherwise, but is of course exactly what Assad wants outsiders to think, as previous dictators have tried to do to cover their political actions. ;)
Lizzie, have you ever been curious about the back side of a theater ;D :y
-
This is what Assad must be taught. He cannot get away with it, no more than any other power hungry menace.
Was Assad responsible for the gas attack? I believe now there are enough witnesses on the ground, including operatives from Britain, USA and other countries, who are convinced want you to think it was. Assad is the one with heavy military hardware. He is the one who is known to have been bombarding his own populations with heavy shells. He is the head of the country, and must be made to pay. The World must not allow him to get away with these acts by blaming weaker opponents, like Hitler blamed the Jews for the firing of the Reichstag!
Fixed that for you, Lizzie. ;)
Seriously, though, there is no hard evidence to point the finger at either side. Therefore, we MUST stay out of it. >:(
Yes there is, although the Syrian Army have shelled the area where more evidence existed; Assad refused to let the UN inspectors enter the area, although now they have been allowed to have been shot at by snipers. Assad resisted any inspection; the "rebels" did the opposite and guaranteed safe passage for the inspectors. In addition respected commentators /witnesses have stated only Assad forces had the ability to launch such a widespread horrific attack on their own people, just as Saddam Hussein once did against the Kurds. Only a dictator could kill in their hundreds fellow Syrian people. It is naive to think otherwise, but is of course exactly what Assad wants outsiders to think, as previous dictators have tried to do to cover their political actions. ;)
Where was your righteous indignation in May, Lizzie? ::) ::)
U.N. human rights investigators have gathered testimony from casualties of Syria's civil war and medical staff indicating that rebel forces have used the nerve agent sarin, one of the lead investigators said on Sunday.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/05/us-syria-crisis-un-idUSBRE94409Z20130505 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/05/us-syria-crisis-un-idUSBRE94409Z20130505)
[leans on the pillow with comfort] ;D
-
I really don't give a damn who did it, just remember who invented WMD's in the first place :( :(
It is none of this countries business to be involved in the Middle East, we can pick up the pieces when it is over. Will our politicians ever learn ??? >:( >:(
-
I really don't give a damn who did it, just remember who invented WMD's in the first place :( :(
It is none of this countries business to be involved in the Middle East, we can pick up the pieces when it is over. Will our politicians ever learn ??? >:( >:(
Sadly not. :(
-
ok.. the latest sniper event and Kerry's explanations show that operation will be done..
and I will be very glad if I'm wrong :(
so question is what will be the reaction from other side as Syria is not alone.. :-\
-
I really don't give a damn who did it, just remember who invented WMD's in the first place :( :(
It is none of this countries business to be involved in the Middle East, we can pick up the pieces when it is over. Will our politicians ever learn ??? >:( >:(
Germany first used poisonous gas in WWI to try and resolve the trench warfare stalemate on the Western front. :(
Sarin was discovered by the Germans in the 1930s. Fortunately, Hitler never used it as it was far more potent than any chemical weapons we had at the time.
-
ok.. the latest sniper event and Kerry's explanations show that operation will be done..
and I will be very glad if I'm wrong :(
so question is what will be the reaction from other side as Syria is not alone.. :-\
I read today that only 9% of US citizens (opinion poll) support a strike on Syria. I would think that it is a similar number here in the UK.
And I thought democratically-elected presidents, PMs, are our servants and undertake the will of each country's populace.
Wish I wasn't so naive. ;) ::) ::)
-
Wow Godwin's Law kicked in very early on this thread (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law)) :o
If Assad was stupid enough to launch a relatively small chemical weapons attack the very day the UN inspectors arrived in the suburbs of the capital city they are staying in he would have been toppled years ago. Unfortunately a lot in the west are gullible enough to believe it though :(.
Obama was stupid (or reckless, or devious, depending on your point of view) to say if the red line of chemical weapons use was crossed he would invade. That was an open incitement for the rebels (insurgents) to obtain or make sarin (it's not that difficult, remember the Tokyo underground attack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin_gas_attack_on_the_Tokyo_subway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin_gas_attack_on_the_Tokyo_subway)?).
The very obvious softening up of the West's electorate for military action which some here have noticed (and some not :() is I think not for invasion but for a surgical strike to take out Assad and his top supporters. The mysterious paper bomb 18/7/12 that killed the Syrian defence secretary, the intelligence chief, plus Assad's brother in law, and wounded many including the interior minister was clearly an attempt to do the same. This time, if the West have successfully wound up public opinion enough, they can just do it openly with a drone. Or maybe a laser :-X.
-
The ONLY UK politician that tells the truth. :y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyXQmZCxNvo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyXQmZCxNvo)
..and if it gets me banned by the admins, so be it. This is a dangerous situation for us and, for one, would like to see common sense prevail. :y
-
if that doesn't get banned this one might ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPdH50UwLHc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPdH50UwLHc)
-
ok.. the latest sniper event and Kerry's explanations show that operation will be done..
and I will be very glad if I'm wrong :(
so question is what will be the reaction from other side as Syria is not alone.. :-\
I read today that only 9% of US citizens (opinion poll) support a strike on Syria. I would think that it is a similar number here in the UK.
And I thought democratically-elected presidents, PMs, are our servants and undertake the will of each country's populace.
Wish I wasn't so naive. ;) ::) ::)
I also could estimate similiar ratios.. west societies wont accept an unnecessary war unless a serious threat comes into horizon.. however, cant say the same for ruling elite.. Very glad to share the same opinions Nick :y
-
The 'west' will wade in - of course it will, it always will while it's (struggling to maintain it's position as) the world's leading 'power'.. I imagine that was a done deal as soon as someone dropped the nerve gas bomb, so to speak.
Though I hope I'm proved wrong and we don't.. Maybe the peace envoy Mr Blair would like to visit (rather than going on holiday, as he has done) and sort it all out, instead.
Bah, politics. Just a way to control the populous..
-
Though I hope I'm proved wrong and we don't.. Maybe the peace envoy Mr Blair would like to visit (rather than going on holiday, as he has done) and sort it all out, instead.
Mr. B. Liar is already rattling his sabre for military action according to the news at lunch time, although quite why anyone still gives him airtime I'm not sure.
-
Parliament has been recalled on Thursday. I hope sense prevails and they vote for no involvement or action, that of course assumes that no sexed up reports come to light.
-
My email to my MP today:
As I have not had a reply to my last e-mail to you some 6 months ago, I have no great hope that you will be reading this any time soon.
I, and everyone I have spoken with on this subject in the past week, are adamantly opposed to ANY British involvement in Syria, appalled as we are at the genocidal activities ongoing in that sad country. It is long now past time that British politicians stopped slopping around the world stage in boots that are far too big for them, thanks to the continued emasculation of our armed forces. You cannot have it both ways, if you wish to be a big player in world politics, you have to have the military might to back it up. Please remind our gung-ho Prime Minister and Foreigh Secretary of the old adage, " Speak softly, but carry a big stick." I'm afraid shouting loudly while holding a conductor's baton doesn't cut it.
STOP MEDDLING NOW, and concentrate on sorting out the mess the Labour Government left us in.
-
Though I hope I'm proved wrong and we don't.. Maybe the peace envoy Mr Blair would like to visit (rather than going on holiday, as he has done) and sort it all out, instead.
Mr. B. Liar is already rattling his sabre for military action according to the news at lunch time, although quite why anyone still gives him airtime I'm not sure.
He may be rattling his sabre,but hes rattling it from a huge yacht in the Med. Probably owned by a very dodgy oligarch,or possibly an even dodgier middle eastern dictator. ::)
-
My email to my MP today:
As I have not had a reply to my last e-mail to you some 6 months ago, I have no great hope that you will be reading this any time soon.
I, and everyone I have spoken with on this subject in the past week, are adamantly opposed to ANY British involvement in Syria, appalled as we are at the genocidal activities ongoing in that sad country. It is long now past time that British politicians stopped slopping around the world stage in boots that are far too big for them, thanks to the continued emasculation of our armed forces. You cannot have it both ways, if you wish to be a big player in world politics, you have to have the military might to back it up. Please remind our gung-ho Prime Minister and Foreigh Secretary of the old adage, " Speak softly, but carry a big stick." I'm afraid shouting loudly while holding a conductor's baton doesn't cut it.
STOP MEDDLING NOW, and concentrate on sorting out the mess the Labour Government left us in.
you have done what a responsible citizen would do.. :y :y :y :y
-
So far most opinions are against "troops-on-the-ground". How is that possible ?
So, by air of course, at first. Then Assad stamps even more heavily on the rebels and population, then maybe more air efforts, then . . . . . troops.
Then the body bags start being flown into Brize Norton. Then the political recriminations start.
I would say that Ed Milliband is very happy right now to NOT be in No 10.
-
The Syrian foreign minister this afternoon stated that if the West i.e the US and U.K take action against them then they would involve Israel... OOPS :(
-
The Syrian foreign minister this afternoon stated that if the West i.e the US and U.K take action against them then they would involve Israel... OOPS :(
Meaning that they would start lobbing missiles over the border, or even more.
Nick Clegg
"What we're considering is a serious response... What we're not considering is regime change, trying to topple the Assad regime"
Now, someone please explain how that would work. Launch targeted air attacks causing death and destruction, and then say "Right now don't be a naughty boy and do that chemical weapon thing again, but you can remain in class", and then expect everything to be right ?
This whole thing is about regime change, the rebellion started in order to attempt regime change. Libya was regime change, Egypt, Iraq. What about WWII, and a whole load of others. NOT about regime change ? Silly boy. Regime change by one means or another is the only answer unless the rebellion stops completely, which it will not.
-
Though I hope I'm proved wrong and we don't.. Maybe the peace envoy Mr Blair would like to visit (rather than going on holiday, as he has done) and sort it all out, instead.
Mr. B. Liar is already rattling his sabre for military action according to the news at lunch time, although quite why anyone still gives him airtime I'm not sure.
He may be rattling his sabre,but hes rattling it from a huge yacht in the Med. Probably owned by a very dodgy oligarch,or possibly an even dodgier middle eastern dictator. ::)
.. and if the damned thing sunk, nobody would even notice. ;D
-
subject getting more serious every hour.. media pumping dirty information for every side.. >:( >:( >:(
I bet owners bought warfare producer firms shares >:(
but what they are skipping is this time Russia look it as a prestige subject and I dont think they will step back.. :-\
and if these events take my country into war I wont move even my finger >:(
-
My email to my MP today:
As I have not had a reply to my last e-mail to you some 6 months ago, I have no great hope that you will be reading this any time soon.
I, and everyone I have spoken with on this subject in the past week, are adamantly opposed to ANY British involvement in Syria, appalled as we are at the genocidal activities ongoing in that sad country. It is long now past time that British politicians stopped slopping around the world stage in boots that are far too big for them, thanks to the continued emasculation of our armed forces. You cannot have it both ways, if you wish to be a big player in world politics, you have to have the military might to back it up. Please remind our gung-ho Prime Minister and Foreigh Secretary of the old adage, " Speak softly, but carry a big stick." I'm afraid shouting loudly while holding a conductor's baton doesn't cut it.
STOP MEDDLING NOW, and concentrate on sorting out the mess the Labour Government left us in.
Well said...... :y :y
-
I sent a message to my local Tory MP through the:
http://www.writetothem.com/ (http://www.writetothem.com/)
website.
I suggested that if he supports the two adolescent fools (Cameron and Hague), then any Syrian/British lives lost in military action will result with blood on his hands. Also, that I would be watching his vote VERY carefully.
Wonder if he'll sleep well tonight? ;)
-
I sent this email to my MP Dr Phillip Lee in Bracknell tonight.
"The use of nerve gas is Syria is rightly being condemned internationally and that is no doubt that the Assad regime is oppressive, brutal and vile.
Unfortunately, many of the rebels groups are backed by Al Qaeda and are equally as bad.
None of our military adventures this century has had a good outcome, in Iraq, Afghanistan or more recently Libya. Our approval of a regime change in Egypt has also not led to a good result with the Muslim Brotherhood being voted into power and then removed by force where they pushed the country against the majority's wishes towards a much more radical version of the Islamic religion.
Although I can see the temptation of punishing Assad for the use of chemical weapons to send a message to other dictators that this is unacceptable behaviour, I can't see how this is going to make things better in Syria. Once we start there are real dangers that we will make things worse, with our missiles killing innocent civilians, either accidentally or if Assad uses them as human shields, thus adding to the casualties. With no clear objectives or reliable rebel groups to back to guarantee a better future for Syria, a regime change may well make things much worse and there is real danger of mission creep where we get more and more deeply involved in trying to force a more favourable outcome for the majority.
If I thought that our involvement would improve the situation and provide a better future for the Syrians I would back military intervention, but in the present circumstances, I feel us getting involved will just make things worse and therefore I urge you to vote against any military intervention there at this time."
I corresponded with him before and he has always taken the time to reply, but he is very much a party man, so I will follow how he votes in Thursday's debate with interest.
-
I sent this email to my MP Dr Phillip Lee in Bracknell tonight.
"The use of nerve gas is Syria is rightly being condemned internationally and that is no doubt that the Assad regime is oppressive, brutal and vile.
Unfortunately, many of the rebels groups are backed by Al Qaeda and are equally as bad.
None of our military adventures this century has had a good outcome, in Iraq, Afghanistan or more recently Libya. Our approval of a regime change in Egypt has also not led to a good result with the Muslim Brotherhood being voted into power and then removed by force where they pushed the country against the majority's wishes towards a much more radical version of the Islamic religion.
Although I can see the temptation of punishing Assad for the use of chemical weapons to send a message to other dictators that this is unacceptable behaviour, I can't see how this is going to make things better in Syria. Once we start there are real dangers that we will make things worse, with our missiles killing innocent civilians, either accidentally or if Assad uses them as human shields, thus adding to the casualties. With no clear objectives or reliable rebel groups to back to guarantee a better future for Syria, a regime change may well make things much worse and there is real danger of mission creep where we get more and more deeply involved in trying to force a more favourable outcome for the majority.
If I thought that our involvement would improve the situation and provide a better future for the Syrians I would back military intervention, but in the present circumstances, I feel us getting involved will just make things worse and therefore I urge you to vote against any military intervention there at this time."
I corresponded with him before and he has always taken the time to reply, but he is very much a party man, so I will follow how he votes in Thursday's debate with interest.
Sent similar to mine........ :y :( :(
-
I sent this email to my MP Dr Phillip Lee in Bracknell tonight.
"The use of nerve gas is Syria is rightly being condemned internationally and that is no doubt that the Assad regime is oppressive, brutal and vile.
Unfortunately, many of the rebels groups are backed by Al Qaeda and are equally as bad.
None of our military adventures this century has had a good outcome, in Iraq, Afghanistan or more recently Libya. Our approval of a regime change in Egypt has also not led to a good result with the Muslim Brotherhood being voted into power and then removed by force where they pushed the country against the majority's wishes towards a much more radical version of the Islamic religion.
Although I can see the temptation of punishing Assad for the use of chemical weapons to send a message to other dictators that this is unacceptable behaviour, I can't see how this is going to make things better in Syria. Once we start there are real dangers that we will make things worse, with our missiles killing innocent civilians, either accidentally or if Assad uses them as human shields, thus adding to the casualties. With no clear objectives or reliable rebel groups to back to guarantee a better future for Syria, a regime change may well make things much worse and there is real danger of mission creep where we get more and more deeply involved in trying to force a more favourable outcome for the majority.
If I thought that our involvement would improve the situation and provide a better future for the Syrians I would back military intervention, but in the present circumstances, I feel us getting involved will just make things worse and therefore I urge you to vote against any military intervention there at this time."
I corresponded with him before and he has always taken the time to reply, but he is very much a party man, so I will follow how he votes in Thursday's debate with interest.
Sent similar to mine........ :y :( :(
Snap, why is it always us why don't the Arabs sort their own problems out
-
I sent this email to my MP Dr Phillip Lee in Bracknell tonight.
"The use of nerve gas is Syria is rightly being condemned internationally and that is no doubt that the Assad regime is oppressive, brutal and vile.
Unfortunately, many of the rebels groups are backed by Al Qaeda and are equally as bad.
None of our military adventures this century has had a good outcome, in Iraq, Afghanistan or more recently Libya. Our approval of a regime change in Egypt has also not led to a good result with the Muslim Brotherhood being voted into power and then removed by force where they pushed the country against the majority's wishes towards a much more radical version of the Islamic religion.
Although I can see the temptation of punishing Assad for the use of chemical weapons to send a message to other dictators that this is unacceptable behaviour, I can't see how this is going to make things better in Syria. Once we start there are real dangers that we will make things worse, with our missiles killing innocent civilians, either accidentally or if Assad uses them as human shields, thus adding to the casualties. With no clear objectives or reliable rebel groups to back to guarantee a better future for Syria, a regime change may well make things much worse and there is real danger of mission creep where we get more and more deeply involved in trying to force a more favourable outcome for the majority.
If I thought that our involvement would improve the situation and provide a better future for the Syrians I would back military intervention, but in the present circumstances, I feel us getting involved will just make things worse and therefore I urge you to vote against any military intervention there at this time."
I corresponded with him before and he has always taken the time to reply, but he is very much a party man, so I will follow how he votes in Thursday's debate with interest.
Sent similar to mine........ :y :( :(
Snap, why is it always us why don't the Arabs sort their own problems out
good question :) :y because they have oil ;D if they dont have, trust me your politicians wouldnt care!
-
I sent this email to my MP Dr Phillip Lee in Bracknell tonight.
"The use of nerve gas is Syria is rightly being condemned internationally and that is no doubt that the Assad regime is oppressive, brutal and vile.
Unfortunately, many of the rebels groups are backed by Al Qaeda and are equally as bad.
good point.. actually those rebels are unbelievably worse.. we have seen/witnessed that first hand :(
None of our military adventures this century has had a good outcome, in Iraq, Afghanistan or more recently Libya. Our approval of a regime change in Egypt has also not led to a good result with the Muslim Brotherhood being voted into power and then removed by force where they pushed the country against the majority's wishes towards a much more radical version of the Islamic religion.
Although I can see the temptation of punishing Assad for the use of chemical weapons to send a message to other dictators that this is unacceptable behaviour, I can't see how this is going to make things better in Syria. Once we start there are real dangers that we will make things worse, with our missiles killing innocent civilians, either accidentally or if Assad uses them as human shields, thus adding to the casualties. With no clear objectives or reliable rebel groups to back to guarantee a better future for Syria, a regime change may well make things much worse and there is real danger of mission creep where we get more and more deeply involved in trying to force a more favourable outcome for the majority.
If I thought that our involvement would improve the situation and provide a better future for the Syrians I would back military intervention, but in the present circumstances, I feel us getting involved will just make things worse and therefore I urge you to vote against any military intervention there at this time."
I corresponded with him before and he has always taken the time to reply, but he is very much a party man, so I will follow how he votes in Thursday's debate with interest.
Rods , I see that you are also effected by the media (which is expected- no one is immune) but still your opinions are on the correct line :y
however, assad is not another saddam.. he is a usual syrian figure.. and any man you select from the streets wont behave different in his position..
however, as I told before in other threads, politicans have to do their duty.. because they are not the real decision makers.. decision is made and will be applied.. and I wish million times I'm wrong
-
good question :) :y because they have oil ;D if they dont have, trust me your politicians wouldnt care!
You're right there Cem, if there was no oil in the Middle East and it was just sand and camel dung, nobody would care! ::)
When Robert Mugabe slaughtered 20,000 odd Matabeles in Zimbabwe in the 1980's nobody intervened and we all looked the other way during the Rwandan genocide in the 1990's. :'( :'( :'(
Too be honest I'm undecided about military action in Syria. I'm not totally convinced that it was Assad's forces that used the chemical weapons, as it might well have been the opposition forces trying to provoke a response from the West. :-\ If we do send a few cruise missiles into Damascus what good will it do? :-\
However if we'd sent a message to Mugabe attached to a cruise missile in the 1980's, then maybe Zimbabwe would be a better place for it today..... :-\
-
good question :) :y because they have oil ;D if they dont have, trust me your politicians wouldnt care!
You're right there Cem, if there was no oil in the Middle East and it was just sand and camel dung, nobody would care! ::)
When Robert Mugabe slaughtered 20,000 odd Matabeles in Zimbabwe in the 1980's nobody intervened and we all looked the other way during the Rwandan genocide in the 1990's. :'( :'( :'(
Too be honest I'm undecided about military action in Syria. I'm not totally convinced that it was Assad's forces that used the chemical weapons, as it might well have been the opposition forces trying to provoke a response from the West. :-\ If we do send a few cruise missiles into Damascus what good will it do? :-\
However if we'd sent a message to Mugabe attached to a cruise missile in the 1980's, then maybe Zimbabwe would be a better place for it today..... :-\
bang on :y :y :y
-
I corresponded with him before and he has always taken the time to reply, but he is very much a party man, so I will follow how he votes in Thursday's debate with interest.
That's an understatement.. I still remember the letter he sent me about petrol prices - not our fault, OPEC, crude oil, blah blah blah.. I imagine he's as much a eunuch as the rest of them.
However if we'd sent a message to Mugabe attached to a cruise missile in the 1980's, then maybe Zimbabwe would be a better place for it today..... :-\
I know plenty of (white, admittedly) Zims who would wholeheartedly agree with you!
-
Syria actually has quite sophisticated weaponry and defences.
I suspect it isn't going to be the pushover of Iraq, Afghanistan, Lybia, Eqypt where we just pop in and pop out. IF there is any intervention the West needs other Middle eastern states on side and maybe even participating.
T'is very dangerous times we live in. Maybe a WW3 would sort out fiscal issues elsewhere.......
-
Syria actually has quite sophisticated weaponry and defences.
I suspect it isn't going to be the pushover of Iraq, Afghanistan, Lybia, Eqypt where we just pop in and pop out. IF there is any intervention the West needs other Middle eastern states on side and maybe even participating.
T'is very dangerous times we live in. Maybe a WW3 would sort out fiscal issues elsewhere.......
Just remember what Einstein said about WW4 as a result of WW3. The main participants in WW3 would have the capacity to kill most of the world's inhabitants.
All massive wars are a financial disaster. The UK had to use light feet and slight of hand not to join the 30% of sovereign nations that defaulted in the 1950's as a result of the 1930's depression and WWII. I suspect with many Western countries weak finances, it would push what was left of the people and their economies over the edge. :(
-
Interesting...
http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/video-shows-rebels-launching-gas-attack-in-syria/ (http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/video-shows-rebels-launching-gas-attack-in-syria/)
-
Interesting...
http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/video-shows-rebels-launching-gas-attack-in-syria/ (http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/video-shows-rebels-launching-gas-attack-in-syria/)
today also Haaretz mention about a chlorine factory in rebels area..
but regardless of the fact my tenner says Syria will be bombed.. ;D
and I gave the permission to US to bomb free syrian army of b*st*rds on our Lands ;D ;D who is actually responsible of everything >:(
-
Many people are not convinced that attacking Syria is the right thing to do.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/normantebbit/100232856/syria-i-hope-i-can-support-the-government-tomorrow-but-im-not-yet-persuaded-to-do-so/ (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/normantebbit/100232856/syria-i-hope-i-can-support-the-government-tomorrow-but-im-not-yet-persuaded-to-do-so/)
Nickbat, I have read today that US intelligence have linked the gas attack with Assad's brother, who is the regimes enforcer. An odious person, even by brutal dictator standards, but after the "sexed up" Iraq WMD, who knows how valid this is? ???
-
Many people are not convinced that attacking Syria is the right thing to do.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/normantebbit/100232856/syria-i-hope-i-can-support-the-government-tomorrow-but-im-not-yet-persuaded-to-do-so/ (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/normantebbit/100232856/syria-i-hope-i-can-support-the-government-tomorrow-but-im-not-yet-persuaded-to-do-so/)
Nickbat, I have read today that US intelligence have linked the gas attack with Assad's brother, who is the regimes enforcer. An odious person, even by brutal dictator standards, but after the "sexed up" Iraq WMD, who knows how valid this is? ???
I still reckon that, with the government forces holding the upper hand in that district at the time, and the location being only 5 minutes from the Four Seasons Hotel where the UN Inspectors were, one would need to look for signs of stupidity rather than odiousness. ;)
-
Fantastic.
Cameron and Obama agree a timetable and what military intervention for Syria.
Then Cameron says they will have a parliamentary vote on the "principle" of military action but with the promise that they will get another say before any missiles are fired. Well that will all be too late!
UN inspectors mandate is not to discover who used chemical weapons. It is to confirm whether they were used.
Who controls foreign policy in Britain? Ed Miliband ;D ;D That is a first that the government doesn't !
Has anyone ever found it a little strange that none of the main TV news channels ever reports what Europe feel about Syria? It is always USA this USA the other. For what it is worth the Frenchies are keen on military action.
-
Russian warships are sent to area .. :( (interfax)
I said this became a prestige subject for them..
Gennadiy Gatilov (from Russian foreign ministry) said
"announcing/declaring military operation for syria means challenging international law norms"
how you say , batten down the hatches ;D
-
cem. What do you personally and also the Turkish government think the rest of the world should do about Syria?
-
The best TV news programme I have seen for balanced coverage of all Middle East issues is Al Jazeera. I watch it every day while having lunch. A lot of people who have never watched it seem to think it is an Islamic propaganda programme, which it definitely is not, and it has excellent coverage of many mid-east issues which we never hear about in the UK:y
-
Fantastic.
Cameron and Obama agree a timetable and what military intervention for Syria.
Then Cameron says they will have a parliamentary vote on the "principle" of military action but with the promise that they will get another say before any missiles are fired. Well that will all be too late!
UN inspectors mandate is not to discover who used chemical weapons. It is to confirm whether they were used.
Who controls foreign policy in Britain? Ed Miliband ;D ;D That is a first that the government doesn't !
Has anyone ever found it a little strange that none of the main TV news channels ever reports what Europe feel about Syria? It is always USA this USA the other. For what it is worth the Frenchies are keen on military action.
Then let them feel free to go ahead, just leave us out of it :y
I notice that the JIC letter contains no proof only strong suspicion, well to that I say " REASONABLE DOUBT" Not Guilty, and as for the legal issues well lets cross a BULLdog with a SHITzu. ;D
Why do our representatives at Westminster assume they can do what they want, this time it seems some MP's are reading their in boxes. ;)
I would bomb Mugabe first :y :y
-
Fantastic.
Cameron and Obama agree a timetable and what military intervention for Syria.
Then Cameron says they will have a parliamentary vote on the "principle" of military action but with the promise that they will get another say before any missiles are fired. Well that will all be too late!
UN inspectors mandate is not to discover who used chemical weapons. It is to confirm whether they were used.
Who controls foreign policy in Britain? Ed Miliband ;D ;D That is a first that the government doesn't !
Has anyone ever found it a little strange that none of the main TV news channels ever reports what Europe feel about Syria? It is always USA this USA the other. For what it is worth the Frenchies are keen on military action.
Then let them feel free to go ahead, just leave us out of it :y
I notice that the JIC letter contains no proof only strong suspicion, well to that I say " REASONABLE DOUBT" Not Guilty, and as for the legal issues well lets cross a BULLdog with a SHITzu. ;D
Why do our representatives at Westminster assume they can do what they want, this time it seems some MP's are reading their in boxes. ;)
I would bomb Mugabe first :y :y
If you want more concrete evidence I'm sure they'll fabricate find some soon. :y
-
Not sure what was going on but the sky's were very busy last night (Wednesday) over West Norfolk with military aircraft both American and British going off,but didnt hear or see them coming back???
-
Not sure what was going on but the sky's were very busy last night (Wednesday) over West Norfolk with military aircraft both American and British going off,but didnt hear or see them coming back???
Gone to Cyprus I bet :(
-
Same happened when they went after Saddam,it was a day or two later that it all went off :-[ :-\ :(
-
I have been listening to the debate in the House Of Commons and although I am loathe to admit it, I agree with every word of the speech by George Galloway of all people. The only ones making sense are those opposed to us getting involved :y :y
Bernard Jenkin should be sent aboard the first cruise missile, talk about war war war >:( >:(
-
An anorak friend told me that Typhoons have been sent from Lincolnshire to Cyprus and last night was "heavy stuff" deploying from bases here in Norfolk. I imagine when he means "heavy" I think he means transport,refuelling and radar planes ??? :-[ :-\
Just heard that Russia is beefing up their hardware in the med as well,all looks iffy :(
My bet is Saturday :-\
-
cem. What do you personally and also the Turkish government think the rest of the world should do about Syria?
first of all we are neighbours with syria.. and there is a Turkish population left from ottoman empire time..
and Kurds and Turks in syria dont love each other ;D so we already had a problem there..
but our govt from the very first moment the rebel action started , supported the rebels because assad is from another muslim religious group.. more than 100K rebels jumped over here, and start to live and create all sorts of trouble.. and causing hundreds of million US$ every month.. and another problem our south east region was making trade with syria and now all is cut.. so I can easily say this rebel action currently costs 1 billion US$ every month >:( besides as the war winds started fuel prices here today passed 5 tl limit (5.06) so it damages our economy everyday..
now if you imagine whoever wins the rebel war and if another one starts , syrians will never forget these days.. :(
imo west should have left this problem alone and investigate who used the sarin gas.. honestly it was obvious that rebels used that because they were hopeless against assad , iran and russia.. and after they found who is guily a UN decision must be made ;D but there are other plans made before and will be put in action.. :-\
and what Turkish govt wants.. they want to burry assad alive..
but %70-80 of our population have different idea without doubt..
now , actually most of the middle east countries are not states ..they are petrol owner tribes.. nothing more.. but west draw their borders with ruler and create artifical states to free them from the collapsed ottoman empire..and when they used the ruler they were unaware of the enemy tribes and religous groups inside the lines ;D
-
An anorak friend told me that Typhoons have been sent from Lincolnshire to Cyprus and last night was "heavy stuff" deploying from bases here in Norfolk. I imagine when he means "heavy" I think he means transport,refuelling and radar planes ??? :-[ :-\
Just heard that Russia is beefing up their hardware in the med as well,all looks iffy :(
My bet is Saturday :-\
my tenner says sunday ;D where are other bets ;D ;D
-
cem. Very interesting.
imo west should have left this problem alone and investigate who used the sarin gas.. honestly it was obvious that rebels used that because they were hopeless against assad , iran and russia.. and after they found who is guilty a UN decision must be made ;D but there are other plans made before and will be put in action.
That sounds fine but
UN mandate is only to find if chemical weapons were used! Not who used them.
UN is a toothless organisation and because China and Russia will veto or vote against, the UN won't be able to make any decision. Nothing new there.
I will put 10 euros on Sunday night/Monday morning. If they have to do missile strikes best thing would be to disable both sides inadvertently.
-
cem. Very interesting.
imo west should have left this problem alone and investigate who used the sarin gas.. honestly it was obvious that rebels used that because they were hopeless against assad , iran and russia.. and after they found who is guilty a UN decision must be made ;D but there are other plans made before and will be put in action.
That sounds fine but
UN mandate is only to find if chemical weapons were used! Not who used them.
yep.. everyone/every country is well aware of that including syria
UN is a toothless organisation and because China and Russia will veto or vote against, the UN won't be able to make any decision. Nothing new there.
yep..
I will put 10 euros on Sunday night/Monday morning. If they have to do missile strikes best thing would be to disable both sides inadvertently.
agreed
:y
-
An anorak friend told me that Typhoons have been sent from Lincolnshire to Cyprus and last night was "heavy stuff" deploying from bases here in Norfolk. I imagine when he means "heavy" I think he means transport,refuelling and radar planes ??? :-[ :-\
Just heard that Russia is beefing up their hardware in the med as well,all looks iffy :(
My bet is Saturday :-\
No, it'll require a second vote in the Commons which will not take place until early next week. My bet is that Cameron will be defeated. :y
-
An anorak friend told me that Typhoons have been sent from Lincolnshire to Cyprus and last night was "heavy stuff" deploying from bases here in Norfolk. I imagine when he means "heavy" I think he means transport,refuelling and radar planes ??? :-[ :-\
Just heard that Russia is beefing up their hardware in the med as well,all looks iffy :(
My bet is Saturday :-\
No, it'll require a second vote in the Commons which will not take place until early next week. My bet is that Cameron will be defeated. :y
Close though........ ;) ;)
-
The UK government has lost the vote on Syria by 285 votes to 272
:y :y
David Cameron says vote shows Parliament does not want military intervention in Syria. “I get that, and the government will act accordingly” :y
-
The UK government has lost the vote on Syria by 285 votes to 272
:y :y
David Cameron says vote shows Parliament does not want military intervention in Syria. “I get that, and the government will act accordingly” :y
Nor do the people you represent, so what will they do to get round it?
-
The UK government has lost the vote on Syria by 285 votes to 272
:y :y
David Cameron says vote shows Parliament does not want military intervention in Syria. “I get that, and the government will act accordingly” :y
Nor do the people you represent, so what will they do to get round it?
Nothing. I think Cameron's toast. :y :y :y :y
-
The UK government has lost the vote on Syria by 285 votes to 272
:y :y
David Cameron says vote shows Parliament does not want military intervention in Syria. “I get that, and the government will act accordingly” :y
phew .. very close.. but thats the best news today :) :y
-
Democracy at work! :) I'm sure that all those emails from OOFers to their MP's tipped the scales!! ;D
-
but still I'm not sure this will stop US missiles :-\
-
Maybe not, but at the moment it looks as though Britain won't be joining the party when and if it kicks off. :)
Can Obama launch attacks without a vote in Congress? :-\
-
but still I'm not sure this will stop US missiles :-\
It will make it a little less likely where the US likes to have allies, so there is collective responsibility.
I think the UK is suffering from war fatigue with Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and the liberal support for Egyptian regime change. In all of these cases our intervention has led to much civilian loss of live and worse outcomes for who leads the country. In the Middle East it seems to be either strong dictatorships or sectarian violence amongst the various tribes. From the 'uman rights point of view this is bad, but the UK interests are better served by having Western leaning dictators. We live in an imperfect world and as a declining minor power with a small military we cannot put the world to rights and nor should we try to.
Sectarian violence is killing over 1,000 civilians in Iraq every month and this is getting worse, Afghanistan has had a heavy toll on the UK military with many deaths and permanent injuries from enemy contact and IEDs. My money is on that within 12 months of the withdrawal of allied troops it will be ruled by the Taliban again where it is in Iran's and Pakistan's interest for this to happen. Our armed forces have performed badly both Iraq and Afghanistan due to poor inadequate equipment, poor leadership and inappropriate rules of engagement. It has been a case of our troops on the ground (the lions) being led by senior officers and politicians (the donkeys).
The toppling of Gaddafi (to save Sarkozy's skin from where he obtained illegal party funds from him) has led to the widespread looting of his arms dumps and the arming of all sorts of undesirable groups, which have spread out throughout the Middle East and North Africa causing problems which is why French troops are deployed in Mali.
I can't see how our intervention will make Syria better and reduce the number of civilian casualties. If I thought a military intervention by us would make things better I would back it, but on our current record I think we will make things worse. It also doesn't meet the criterion of; does it affect UK interests or threaten the UK, the simple answer to this is no and no.
The evisceration of our armed forces by this current Government has also made us much weaker militarily and the spending of yet more money on an overseas adventure would make this even worse.
-
as I was very nervous yesterday night , may be my reaction was inadeqaute about the voting results.. sorry for that..
now its time to underline what happened again.. :)
its a great result and UK mps (and citizens) showed the world (and also to cowboys-including my govt) what a civilised country is.. congratulations :y :y :y :y :y
and as for Taliban Rods.. probably its the only place where west have really right to bomb and I hope west will bomb them forever.. Earth must be completely cleaned from those primitives and their way of thinking >:(
and a final note , although oil turns the west against assad , the rebels of syria is no different than talibans and in reality may be worse :(
-
Think the MPs have been short sighted with their vote tbh :-\
My take was that they were recalled to discuss and agree on a complete course of action in order to be ready to react to the UN as and when it (the UN) make a decision. Now it will take months to respond as they will have to argue the toss every step.
The only people who said anything about going to war and cruise missiles are theDaily Fail, the BBC and some brocolli munching leftist MPs. Shame on Milibland for killing any hope of us playing a meaningful role in the whole sorry mess.
-
Think the MPs have been short sighted with their vote tbh :-\
My take was that they were recalled to discuss and agree on a complete course of action in order to be ready to react to the UN as and when it (the UN) make a decision. Now it will take months to respond as they will have to argue the toss every step.
The only people who said anything about going to war and cruise missiles are theDaily Fail, the BBC and some brocolli munching leftist MPs. Shame on Milibland for killing any hope of us playing a meaningful role in the whole sorry mess.
I see you want war ::) who hold/stop you :D join the army ;D
or come here and join the rebels ;)
-
Not at all Cem. Military response should and must be a last resort. But it is surely better to be completely prepared for any given course rather than botching a last minute effort which is where we will end up chasing the Americans into yet another middle east balls up... That said I'm not convinced that the Americans are hell bent on all out war either...
-
Not sure what was going on but the sky's were very busy last night (Wednesday) over West Norfolk with military aircraft both American and British going off,but didnt hear or see them coming back???
I wonder how much the MOD has spent moving assets to Cyprus and the Med in recent weeks? ::)
-
I dont think any one wants an all out war :-\
But if you give the green light to dictators then they will take advantage :-\
I still reckon things will change when the UN give their report over the weekend,if international law has been broken then something needs to be done and Britain is one of the top 5 in the UN. :-\
With Syria,Libya,Iran,Afghan et al all at it,then something will give (Israel have gone quite :-\).
It only needs one of them to react against whoever and BOOM :-\
I dont care for myself it is my grandchildren I fear for :'(
There were those that shouted from the rooftops that something was to be done against Sadam and when it was,the same condemned. :-[
Strategic strikes for me is the answer.....basically a few rockets up the wotsit :y
Wasn't there a prediction that those on camels will bring down the Western world : :-\
-
It's pretty clear to me that Cameron lost the vote because he didn't being enough arguments of any substance to the table. He's been swept along by Obama's haste to act now the "red line" has been crossed and it was effectively a vote on trotting along behind him like a good little lap dog. Rightly, imho, it was rejected. We've done enough of that recently and it hasn't made the world a better place.
As for the UN making a decision on action.. well, I think we've got plenty of time there. ::)
-
Possibly the right result for the wrong reasons ? Milipede got his lot to vote against,in order to damage Camoron and to try to boost his own poll ratings. A disgraceful attitude to such a serious issue imo.
-
Pants down Paddy summed it up for me.
Utterly ashamed of the lack of support for the people of Syria. But not just since the chemical weapons issue, but since the start of the conflict within Syria.
Russia's vito on intervention is clearly the result of financial interest with Assad. If not for Russia, the UN would have intervened long before, and God knows how many lives would have been saved.
But more than all of that.... The Arab league sit and do nothing.
Chemical weapons has killed a fraction of the total number of dead since the conflict began.
-
one point which took my attention.. most here thinks assad is dictator.. in middle east every country is dictated by dictators, who on earth thinks there is democracy in any of the middle east countries.. ??? ;D
and if we start to shoot the dictators and bomb the countries we must do it for all :D ;D
-
Possibly the right result for the wrong reasons ? Milipede got his lot to vote against,in order to damage Camoron and to try to boost his own poll ratings. A disgraceful attitude to such a serious issue imo.
No, party politics aside, I think it was great to see the legislature defeat the executive. The country as a whole had no stomach for such a foreign adventure and, frankly, following the Iraq WMD fiasco, the public did not want to rely upon "intelligence" to point the finger at Assad. Even Cameron could not be 100% certain he was responsible.
I think the whole red-line bit is a joke. The rebels used CW in May and nowt happened. Plus, isn't it a bit strange to say 100,000 killed by bomb and bullet is OK, but 1,000 killed by a gas is not? Incidentally, I seem to recall napalm being used extensively in Vietnam, yet the US was not contravening any conventions, however horrid such a weapon is, because, although it is a chemical substance, it did not affect the nervous system - merely burned all your skin off. ::) ::)
-
Does anyone else think that that was only part1? We have our hardware in the Middle east ready, chiefs of the armed forces have drawn up their plans.
Still time for a rethink, another vote or even an override of voting "in National and Syrias interests". If someone did a CW strike on Alleppo.........
Was this also another nail in Cameron's coffin.? Soon be time to wheel out Boris.....
-
one point which took my attention.. most here thinks assad is dictator.. in middle east every country is dictated by dictators, who on earth thinks there is democracy in any of the middle east countries.. ??? ;D
and if we start to shoot the dictators and bomb the countries we must do it for all :D ;D
And personally I think that's where the problems lay,so we have some jumped up hitleresque type "dictator/s".... who want to rule by hurting their own countries people.......stick a rocket up their "dictoriums" :y :y ;D
Use of chemical weaponry is an international crime and should be dealt with for the sake of our children and theirs :y
-
It is precisely because of conflicts like Vietnam and the First and Second world wars that chemical weapons and their use against civilians is so frowned upon. Sitting on our hands debating the whys and wherefores is at least as useless as wading in guns blazing.
A united response was all that was required. Simply an agreement to do something as and when the UN require it.
I agree with Albs last sentiment...
-
It is precisely because of conflicts like Vietnam and the First and Second world wars that chemical weapons and their use against civilians is so frowned upon. Sitting on our hands debating the whys and wherefores is at least as useless as wading in guns blazing.
A united response was all that was required. Simply an agreement to do something as and when the UN require it.
I agree with Albs last sentiment...
:y :y
-
.. but the UN will likely achieve nothing but a stalemate between the west and east (again!), which would leave it to an ill thought-out "regime change" led by the US, the drafting of another dodgy dossier pinning the CW attack on whoever it suits them and, if Cameron had got his way, us hanging on to their coat-tails on the strength of it. A load more suffering will ensue, dwarfing that of the poor souls caught up in the original CW attack. Nobody will be any better off as a result.
Use of chemical weapons is indeed deplorable, but we've tried this formula before. Another solution needs to be found this time IMHO.
-
As long as that alternative solution doesn't involve nothing :-\
-
.. but the UN will likely achieve nothing but a stalemate between the west and east (again!), which would leave it to an ill thought-out "regime change" led by the US, the drafting of another dodgy dossier pinning the CW attack on whoever it suits them and, if Cameron had got his way, us hanging on to their coat-tails on the strength of it. A load more suffering will ensue, dwarfing that of the poor souls caught up in the original CW attack. Nobody will be any better off as a result.
Use of chemical weapons is indeed deplorable, but we've tried this formula before. Another solution needs to be found this time IMHO.
Spot on, Kevin! :y
-
CaMoron was working to Obuma's timetable and it badly backfired on him. He should have waited for the UN report before deciding what action to take and also have enough information to pin it on the appropriate side. I personally don't have a problem with a response to whoever caused this outrage Assad or the Rebels, providing there is a credible plan to stop further use, and ideally to also reduce the suffering of innocent civilians.
A credible plan is exactly the problem, say it was Assad and we bomb his C&C bunkers which weakens his position militarily so in desperation he makes mass attacks using his poison gas supplies, have we improved the situation? Now if we attack the chemical factories and his chemical supply dumps and poison and kill many civilians that live around them, have we improved the situation?
How about if the faction with the chemical weapons retaliate with suicide bombers on the London underground or Turkish cities. Do we all have gas masks and are prepared for this?
The problem is how do you improve the situation in Syria where a rebel replacement for Assad maybe a whole lot worse and whose first action maybe is to wipe out the 2 million Christians there.
So, those in favour of action, please tell me what we need to do to improve things, as I can't see any course of action that will and I know many very senior ex-military officers can't either and this is why so many people are opposed to our intervention including the majority of MPs.
-
CaMoron was working to Obuma's timetable and it badly backfired on him. He should have waited for the UN report before deciding what action to take and also have enough information to pin it on the appropriate side. I personally don't have a problem with a response to whoever caused this outrage Assad or the Rebels, providing there is a credible plan to stop further use, and ideally to also reduce the suffering of innocent civilians.
A credible plan is exactly the problem, say it was Assad and we bomb his C&C bunkers which weakens his position militarily so in desperation he makes mass attacks using his poison gas supplies, have we improved the situation? Now if we attack the chemical factories and his chemical supply dumps and poison and kill many civilians that live around them, have we improved the situation?
How about if the faction with the chemical weapons retaliate with suicide bombers on the London underground or Turkish cities. Do we all have gas masks and are prepared for this?
The problem is how do you improve the situation in Syria where a rebel replacement for Assad maybe a whole lot worse and whose first action maybe is to wipe out the 2 million Christians there.
So, those in favour of action, please tell me what we need to do to improve things, as I can't see any course of action that will and I know many very senior ex-military officers can't either and this is why so many people are opposed to our intervention including the majority of MPs.
Spot on.
Where is the Arab League in all of this? :o The West should be supporting them in promoting peace and harmony
I have just doubled my bet to 20 euros missile strikes Sunday night. Israeli influence is the crucial thing here.
-
CaMoron was working to Obuma's timetable and it badly backfired on him. He should have waited for the UN report before deciding what action to take and also have enough information to pin it on the appropriate side. I personally don't have a problem with a response to whoever caused this outrage Assad or the Rebels, providing there is a credible plan to stop further use, and ideally to also reduce the suffering of innocent civilians.
A credible plan is exactly the problem, say it was Assad and we bomb his C&C bunkers which weakens his position militarily so in desperation he makes mass attacks using his poison gas supplies, have we improved the situation? Now if we attack the chemical factories and his chemical supply dumps and poison and kill many civilians that live around them, have we improved the situation?
How about if the faction with the chemical weapons retaliate with suicide bombers on the London underground or Turkish cities. Do we all have gas masks and are prepared for this?
The problem is how do you improve the situation in Syria where a rebel replacement for Assad maybe a whole lot worse and whose first action maybe is to wipe out the 2 million Christians there.
So, those in favour of action, please tell me what we need to do to improve things, as I can't see any course of action that will and I know many very senior ex-military officers can't either and this is why so many people are opposed to our intervention including the majority of MPs.
Spot on.
Where is the Arab League in all of this? :o The West should be supporting them in promoting peace and harmony
I have just doubled my bet to 20 euros missile strikes Sunday night. Israeli influence is the crucial thing here.
UK mps votes may delay the procedure a bit.. but sooner or later :-\
-
How did your MP vote?
Here is a list:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10275474/Syria-debate-how-did-your-MP-vote.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10275474/Syria-debate-how-did-your-MP-vote.html)
I will give credit where credits due. My MP Dr Phillip Lee of Bracknell is normally a party man but he voted against the Syrian intervention, so well done to him. :y :y :y :y I'm glad I took the time to email him. :y
-
CaMoron was working to Obuma's timetable and it badly backfired on him. He should have waited for the UN report before deciding what action to take and also have enough information to pin it on the appropriate side. I personally don't have a problem with a response to whoever caused this outrage Assad or the Rebels, providing there is a credible plan to stop further use, and ideally to also reduce the suffering of innocent civilians.
A credible plan is exactly the problem, say it was Assad and we bomb his C&C bunkers which weakens his position militarily so in desperation he makes mass attacks using his poison gas supplies, have we improved the situation? Now if we attack the chemical factories and his chemical supply dumps and poison and kill many civilians that live around them, have we improved the situation?
How about if the faction with the chemical weapons retaliate with suicide bombers on the London underground or Turkish cities. Do we all have gas masks and are prepared for this?
The problem is how do you improve the situation in Syria where a rebel replacement for Assad maybe a whole lot worse and whose first action maybe is to wipe out the 2 million Christians there.
So, those in favour of action, please tell me what we need to do to improve things, as I can't see any course of action that will and I know many very senior ex-military officers can't either and this is why so many people are opposed to our intervention including the majority of MPs.
Spot on.
Where is the Arab League in all of this? :o The West should be supporting them in promoting peace and harmony
I have just doubled my bet to 20 euros missile strikes Sunday night. Israeli influence is the crucial thing here.
::) ;D Russians also increased the bet for weekend ;D
-
I really don't give a monkeys what the Arab states do to one another , just so long as we aren't involved, and at last we seem to be keeping our noses out. :y :y
We can pick up the pieces when it's all over :y :y
-
there is a rule for wars
always ordinary citizens pays the price with their blood and the ruling elite harvest the income :(
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/ONCEgidenler_zps16aa4cb8.jpg)
-
This article by Max Hastings in the DM I think sums up UK citizens feelings and military and political realities of the UK's standing in the world.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2407552/Syria-vote-A-disaster-No-high-time-Britain-stopped-Uncle-Sams-poodle.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2407552/Syria-vote-A-disaster-No-high-time-Britain-stopped-Uncle-Sams-poodle.html)
Our armed forces have been cut and cut since John Major's peace dividend with the collapse of the Iron Curtain and further and further by all subsequent governments, while the social security, NHS and teaching budgets has soured and the later two are ring fenced by this Government, who see increasing overseas aid and subsidising useless windmills as a higher priority than protecting us and our interests with a strong military. The £12bn and ever increasing annual overseas aid budget would IMHO be much better spent on increasing our military budget.
The reality is that you can't continually eviscerate your armed force and still expect to carry a big stick on the world's stage. These days all we have is a twig to threaten a country's leadership with to keep them in order. >:( >:( >:( >:( Hence us running to our big brother the EU to sort out the Gibraltar border problems where we are too weak to protect ourselves from their bullying. Personally with Gibraltar I would retaliate by subjecting all aircraft and ships going to and coming from Spain to the same sort of delays that way British tourists would soon get the message it would be better to holiday elsewhere, which is the last thing a deeply in trouble Spanish economy needs. :) :y :y :y
-
This article by Max Hastings in the DM I think sums up UK citizens feelings and military and political realities of the UK's standing in the world.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2407552/Syria-vote-A-disaster-No-high-time-Britain-stopped-Uncle-Sams-poodle.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2407552/Syria-vote-A-disaster-No-high-time-Britain-stopped-Uncle-Sams-poodle.html)
Our armed forces have been cut and cut since John Major's peace dividend with the collapse of the Iron Curtain and further and further by all subsequent governments, while the social security, NHS and teaching budgets has soured and the later two are ring fenced by this Government, who see increasing overseas aid and subsidising useless windmills as a higher priority than protecting us and our interests with a strong military. The £12bn and ever increasing annual overseas aid budget would IMHO be much better spent on increasing our military budget.
The reality is that you can't continually eviscerate your armed force and still expect to carry a big stick on the world's stage. These days all we have is a twig to threaten a country's leadership with to keep them in order. >:( >:( >:( >:( Hence us running to our big brother the EU to sort out the Gibraltar border problems where we are too weak to protect ourselves from their bullying. Personally with Gibraltar I would retaliate by subjecting all aircraft and ships going to and coming from Spain to the same sort of delays that way British tourists would soon get the message it would be better to holiday elsewhere, which is the last thing a deeply in trouble Spanish economy needs. :) :y :y :y
Now that is something I agree with :y :y :y
-
John Kerry the US Secretary of State was telling the world yesterday that the US government had proof that the Syrian government was responsible for the chemical weapons attack.
Today Vladimir Putin the Russian President has challenged the US to present that evidence to the United Nations.
Dosn't seem unreasonable to me! :)
-
This article by Max Hastings in the DM I think sums up UK citizens feelings and military and political realities of the UK's standing in the world.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2407552/Syria-vote-A-disaster-No-high-time-Britain-stopped-Uncle-Sams-poodle.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2407552/Syria-vote-A-disaster-No-high-time-Britain-stopped-Uncle-Sams-poodle.html)
Our armed forces have been cut and cut since John Major's peace dividend with the collapse of the Iron Curtain and further and further by all subsequent governments, while the social security, NHS and teaching budgets has soured and the later two are ring fenced by this Government, who see increasing overseas aid and subsidising useless windmills as a higher priority than protecting us and our interests with a strong military. The £12bn and ever increasing annual overseas aid budget would IMHO be much better spent on increasing our military budget.
The reality is that you can't continually eviscerate your armed force and still expect to carry a big stick on the world's stage. These days all we have is a twig to threaten a country's leadership with to keep them in order. >:( >:( >:( >:( Hence us running to our big brother the EU to sort out the Gibraltar border problems where we are too weak to protect ourselves from their bullying. Personally with Gibraltar I would retaliate by subjecting all aircraft and ships going to and coming from Spain to the same sort of delays that way British tourists would soon get the message it would be better to holiday elsewhere, which is the last thing a deeply in trouble Spanish economy needs. :) :y :y :y
Crikey. I have just deleted you and Cleggy from my Christmas card and hamper list. ;D ;D Sorry guys.
On a happier note, Spanish tourism (from foreigners) us up but internal tourism is unsurprisingly down. I guess with so much Arab state unrest Spain looks and is a safer destination.
-
This article by Max Hastings in the DM I think sums up UK citizens feelings and military and political realities of the UK's standing in the world.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2407552/Syria-vote-A-disaster-No-high-time-Britain-stopped-Uncle-Sams-poodle.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2407552/Syria-vote-A-disaster-No-high-time-Britain-stopped-Uncle-Sams-poodle.html)
Our armed forces have been cut and cut since John Major's peace dividend with the collapse of the Iron Curtain and further and further by all subsequent governments, while the social security, NHS and teaching budgets has soured and the later two are ring fenced by this Government, who see increasing overseas aid and subsidising useless windmills as a higher priority than protecting us and our interests with a strong military. The £12bn and ever increasing annual overseas aid budget would IMHO be much better spent on increasing our military budget.
The reality is that you can't continually eviscerate your armed force and still expect to carry a big stick on the world's stage. These days all we have is a twig to threaten a country's leadership with to keep them in order. >:( >:( >:( >:( Hence us running to our big brother the EU to sort out the Gibraltar border problems where we are too weak to protect ourselves from their bullying. Personally with Gibraltar I would retaliate by subjecting all aircraft and ships going to and coming from Spain to the same sort of delays that way British tourists would soon get the message it would be better to holiday elsewhere, which is the last thing a deeply in trouble Spanish economy needs. :) :y :y :y
Crikey. I have just deleted you and Cleggy from my Christmas card and hamper list. ;D ;D Sorry guys.
On a happier note, Spanish tourism (from foreigners) us up but internal tourism is unsurprisingly down. I guess with so much Arab state unrest Spain looks and is a safer destination.
In that case we could go further and bomb Tenerife ;D ;D ;D
-
John Kerry the US Secretary of State was telling the world yesterday that the US government had proof that the Syrian government was responsible for the chemical weapons attack.
Today Vladimir Putin the Russian President has challenged the US to present that evidence to the United Nations.
Dosn't seem unreasonable to me! :)
Anyone remember Colin Powell at the UN with his vial of Iraqi chemical weapons material? ;D
(http://www.notmytribe.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/colin-powell-united-nations-chemical-wmd-lie-anthrax-vial.jpg)
Donald Rumsfeld showed charts of Osama Bin Ladin's underground military complex at Tora Bora with underground facilities that a Bond villian would be proud of. ;D ;D
(http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/2002image/netherpopup.gif)
"Russert: The Times of London did a graphic, which I want to put on the screen for you and our viewers. This is it. This is a fortress. This is a very much a complex, multi-tiered, bedrooms and offices on the top, as you can see, secret exits on the side and on the bottom, cut deep to avoid thermal detection so when our planes fly to try to determine if any human beings are in there, it's built so deeply down and embedded in the mountain and the rock it's hard to detect. And over here, valleys guarded, as you can see, by some Taliban soldiers. A ventilation system to allow people to breathe and to carry on. An arms and ammunition depot. And you can see here the exits leading into it and the entrances large enough to drive trucks and cars and even tanks. And it's own hydroelectric power to help keep lights on, even computer systems and telephone systems. It's a very sophisticated operation.
Rumsfeld: Oh, you bet. This is serious business. And there's not one of those. There are many of those. And they have been used very effectively. And I might add, Afghanistan is not the only country that has gone underground. Any number of countries have gone underground. The tunneling equipment that exists today is very powerful. It's dual use. It's available across the globe. And people have recognized the advantages of using underground protection for themselves.
A few weeks after the "Meet the Press" interview, US special forces and their Afghan allies occupied Tora Bora. They painstakingly searched Gree Khil mountain and the surrounding area. They found no underground fortress, no hydro-electric power plant, no 2000-room hotel, no ant farm, no iron doors, no ventilating shafts. The troglodyte Lair of Bin Laden turned out to be mythic"
-
Turned out to be a corner plot in downtown Islamabad iirc ::)
-
In that case we could go further and bomb Tenerife
Just stay away from Fuerteventura until after November ;D.....please :y ;D
-
John Kerry the US Secretary of State was telling the world yesterday that the US government had proof that the Syrian government was responsible for the chemical weapons attack.
Today Vladimir Putin the Russian President has challenged the US to present that evidence to the United Nations.
Dosn't seem unreasonable to me! :)
Anyone remember Colin Powell at the UN with his vial of Iraqi chemical weapons material? ;D
(http://www.notmytribe.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/colin-powell-united-nations-chemical-wmd-lie-anthrax-vial.jpg)
Donald Rumsfeld showed charts of Osama Bin Ladin's underground military complex at Tora Bora with underground facilities that a Bond villian would be proud of. ;D ;D
(http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/2002image/netherpopup.gif)
"Russert: The Times of London did a graphic, which I want to put on the screen for you and our viewers. This is it. This is a fortress. This is a very much a complex, multi-tiered, bedrooms and offices on the top, as you can see, secret exits on the side and on the bottom, cut deep to avoid thermal detection so when our planes fly to try to determine if any human beings are in there, it's built so deeply down and embedded in the mountain and the rock it's hard to detect. And over here, valleys guarded, as you can see, by some Taliban soldiers. A ventilation system to allow people to breathe and to carry on. An arms and ammunition depot. And you can see here the exits leading into it and the entrances large enough to drive trucks and cars and even tanks. And it's own hydroelectric power to help keep lights on, even computer systems and telephone systems. It's a very sophisticated operation.
Rumsfeld: Oh, you bet. This is serious business. And there's not one of those. There are many of those. And they have been used very effectively. And I might add, Afghanistan is not the only country that has gone underground. Any number of countries have gone underground. The tunneling equipment that exists today is very powerful. It's dual use. It's available across the globe. And people have recognized the advantages of using underground protection for themselves.
A few weeks after the "Meet the Press" interview, US special forces and their Afghan allies occupied Tora Bora. They painstakingly searched Gree Khil mountain and the surrounding area. They found no underground fortress, no hydro-electric power plant, no 2000-room hotel, no ant farm, no iron doors, no ventilating shafts. The troglodyte Lair of Bin Laden turned out to be mythic"
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :y
-
So O'Bummer is putting the issue to Congress for a debate and a vote. ::) I bet he's hoping like hell they vote against military action, as Parliament did. ;)
-
So O'Bummer is putting the issue to Congress for a debate and a vote. ::) I bet he's hoping like hell they vote against military action, as Parliament did. ;)
We'll find out......in ten days. ;D
-
So O'Bummer is putting the issue to Congress for a debate and a vote. ::) I bet he's hoping like hell they vote against military action, as Parliament did. ;)
Yep, that long grass is looking mighty inviting. The thought of niggling the Russians and sky-high gasoline prices may have brought on a bout of sanity. :y
I note the Tories are all saying he's aping Cameron, i.e. what a clever chap Dave is. ::) ::)
-
So O'Bummer is putting the issue to Congress for a debate and a vote. ::) I bet he's hoping like hell they vote against military action, as Parliament did. ;)
Yep, that long grass is looking mighty inviting. The thought of niggling the Russians and sky-high gasoline prices may have brought on a bout of sanity. :y
I note the Tories are all saying he's aping Cameron, i.e. what a clever chap Dave is. ::) ::)
yep.. facts of life sometimes bring you down back to earth-realities ;D but I'm still not sure.. we will see :-X
-
What he really means is that he couldn't do it without the Brits and he doesn't trust the frogs. Out democracy gave him the way out after Camoron lost support of the little people and parliament. ;) :y
-
I haven't bothered to read any replies, all I know is that Cameron is a class A (unt that needs to worry about the issues going on here before he sticks his nose in to other people's $hit.
-
Al-Qaeda Linked Syrian Rebels Attack Christian Village
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/09/04/Syria-rebels-attack-regime-held-Christian-village (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/09/04/Syria-rebels-attack-regime-held-Christian-village)
...and these are the rebels that William Hague wants to arm...and the US wants to help by bombing Assad?
Or have I got it all wrong? ???
Oh, and "The Syrians prepared to die for President Assad"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23966147 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23966147)
My head hurts. ::) ::)
-
Al-Qaeda Linked Syrian Rebels Attack Christian Village
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/09/04/Syria-rebels-attack-regime-held-Christian-village (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/09/04/Syria-rebels-attack-regime-held-Christian-village)
...and these are the rebels that William Hague wants to arm...and the US wants to help by bombing Assad?
Or have I got it all wrong? ???
Oh, and "The Syrians prepared to die for President Assad"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23966147 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23966147)
My head hurts. ::) ::)
its obvious that those rebels are extreme edges.. and if they won the struggle there will be another copy of taliban country in our south >:(
-
Al-Qaeda Linked Syrian Rebels Attack Christian Village
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/09/04/Syria-rebels-attack-regime-held-Christian-village (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/09/04/Syria-rebels-attack-regime-held-Christian-village)
...and these are the rebels that William Hague wants to arm...and the US wants to help by bombing Assad?
Or have I got it all wrong? ???
Oh, and "The Syrians prepared to die for President Assad"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23966147 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23966147)
My head hurts. ::) ::)
its obvious that those rebels are extreme edges.. and if they won the struggle there will be another copy of taliban country in our south >:(
I would not disagree with that assessment, Cem. So, why are the US and France so keen to hasten such a result? ???
-
mccain playing poker ???
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/09/04/mccain-on-smartphone-poker-i-get-a-little-bored/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/09/04/mccain-on-smartphone-poker-i-get-a-little-bored/)
next, bombpoker who will die who will live ;D :D
-
Al-Qaeda Linked Syrian Rebels Attack Christian Village
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/09/04/Syria-rebels-attack-regime-held-Christian-village (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/09/04/Syria-rebels-attack-regime-held-Christian-village)
...and these are the rebels that William Hague wants to arm...and the US wants to help by bombing Assad?
Or have I got it all wrong? ???
Oh, and "The Syrians prepared to die for President Assad"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23966147 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23966147)
My head hurts. ::) ::)
its obvious that those rebels are extreme edges.. and if they won the struggle there will be another copy of taliban country in our south >:(
I would not disagree with that assessment, Cem. So, why are the US and France so keen to hasten such a result? ???
...............and Turkey apparently! ::) ::) ;)
-
Russia appears to be softening and is more willing to listen (accept?) the evidence about Assad forces being responsible for war crimes against his own people.
Next 48 hours appear to be crucial with the current conference maybe shaping American, Russian, France, (Britain?) and others future action / inaction.
Listening to live broadcasts yesterday from Washington, one senator voiced one of the worries of the American people as being the fact the Brits have decided (so far) not to support military action. It has apparently made them "nervous" over the reason why their closest ally has decided on that; what evidence have their leaders seen that is contrary to what the White House is seeing?
You can understand their nervousness. ;)
-
Al-Qaeda Linked Syrian Rebels Attack Christian Village
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/09/04/Syria-rebels-attack-regime-held-Christian-village (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/09/04/Syria-rebels-attack-regime-held-Christian-village)
...and these are the rebels that William Hague wants to arm...and the US wants to help by bombing Assad?
Or have I got it all wrong? ???
Oh, and "The Syrians prepared to die for President Assad"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23966147 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23966147)
My head hurts. ::) ::)
its obvious that those rebels are extreme edges.. and if they won the struggle there will be another copy of taliban country in our south >:(
I would not disagree with that assessment, Cem. So, why are the US and France so keen to hasten such a result? ???
...............and Turkey apparently! ::) ::) ;)
our govt have different secterian than assad.. so they (not us) have a "reason" ! ;D :D >:( >:( >:(
-
Russia appears to be softening and is more willing to listen (accept?) the evidence about Assad forces being responsible for war crimes against his own people.
...........
russian ministry today announced that they have evidence for the rebels using of gas rockets ;)
-
Putin: 'Britain is just a small island that nobody takes any notice of'.
Yep ;D
-
It is a fact that chemical weapons were used in contravention of international law.
The thing to be established is who used them? when they can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt which side used them, then and only then should action be taken against the perpetrators. Politicians at the moment are doing what they do best..... spouting hot air without knowing the facts. :(
-
Interesting that Assad is nowhere to be seen in all of this. ???
-
Al-Qaeda Linked Syrian Rebels Attack Christian Village
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/09/04/Syria-rebels-attack-regime-held-Christian-village (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/09/04/Syria-rebels-attack-regime-held-Christian-village)
...and these are the rebels that William Hague wants to arm...and the US wants to help by bombing Assad?
Or have I got it all wrong? ???
Oh, and "The Syrians prepared to die for President Assad"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23966147 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23966147)
My head hurts. ::) ::)
its obvious that those rebels are extreme edges.. and if they won the struggle there will be another copy of taliban country in our south >:(
I would not disagree with that assessment, Cem. So, why are the US and France so keen to hasten such a result? ???
Nick, I think you have/know both questions and their answers together :) :y
-
Interesting that Assad is nowhere to be seen in all of this. ???
he is the target.. and west media dont give him any right to talk.. instead they shine and polish the taliban copies ;D but you cant polish a turd ;D ;D ;D
-
Russia appears to be softening and is more willing to listen (accept?) the evidence about Assad forces being responsible for war crimes against his own people.
:D :D ;)
...........
russian ministry today announced that they have evidence for the rebels using of gas rockets ;)
Yes, and now, contrary to earlier reports, Putin is again distancing himself from the western powers keen to go on the offensive against Assad. The group photograph at the St. Petersburg said it all! Putin was miles away from Obama! ::) ::) ::) :D :D ;)
-
Russia appears to be softening and is more willing to listen (accept?) the evidence about Assad forces being responsible for war crimes against his own people.
:D :D ;)
...........
russian ministry today announced that they have evidence for the rebels using of gas rockets ;)
Yes, and now, contrary to earlier reports, Putin is again distancing himself from the western powers keen to go on the offensive against Assad. The group photograph at the St. Petersburg said it all! Putin was miles away from Obama! ::) ::) ::) :D :D ;)
::) what do you expect Lizzie ? despite all evidences Obama (actually not him-he is the operator) wants war.. would putin send kisses and flowers ;D
-
Russia appears to be softening and is more willing to listen (accept?) the evidence about Assad forces being responsible for war crimes against his own people.
:D :D ;)
...........
russian ministry today announced that they have evidence for the rebels using of gas rockets ;)
Yes, and now, contrary to earlier reports, Putin is again distancing himself from the western powers keen to go on the offensive against Assad. The group photograph at the St. Petersburg said it all! Putin was miles away from Obama! ::) ::) ::) :D :D ;)
::) what do you expect Lizzie ? despite all evidences Obama (actually not him-he is the operator) wants war.. would putin send kisses and flowers ;D
Perhaps not Cem ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
However, we are talking international politics, and Russia has got more at stake in the West than ever before. Politics could therefore make his hand swing towards some form of operation with other UN forces to at least control both sides in Syria, as a peace keeping operation, without actually using his military forces. Politics, politics - who knows what could happen next?
Remember no one expected Stalin to join forces with Nazi Germany over the Polish question.But he did! ;) ;)
-
They got on just fine at the G20 meeting as the picture below shows.
(http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/52288526eab8ea214d8b456b-780-/obama-putin-g20.jpeg)
Obuma giving Putin a death stare. ::) :o ;D ;D ;D
As Churchill told us it is better to jaw, jaw than war, war.
Where Russia has a strategic interest in Syria with their only base in the Med, then Putin will back Assad come what may. I think it is unfortunate that Russia did not exert more pressure from the beginning on Assad to enact political reforms and give the population more freedom, it Assad had done so he may have avoided the civil war. :(
-
But what do you expect from someone who created a more important job for himself when his term in office expired ::)
Suprised Ton E didn't try that one himself ;D
-
Suprised Ton E didn't try that one himself ;D
He did. He got greedy and decided, rather than another national role, he'd bring peace to the middle east. It didn't work and now everybody has forgotten him. ;D
-
Suprised Ton E didn't try that one himself ;D
He did. He got greedy and decided, rather than another national role, he'd bring peace to the middle east. It didn't work and now everybody has forgotten him. ;D
Hmm, there are a lot more people "at peace" since he took over the post. ;) :(
-
"High-Level U.S. Intelligence Officers: Syrian Government Didn’t Launch Chemical Weapons"
Some sobering reading here:
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-09-07/high-level-us-intelligence-officers-syrian-government-didn%E2%80%99t-launch-chemical- (http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-09-07/high-level-us-intelligence-officers-syrian-government-didn%E2%80%99t-launch-chemical-)
:o
-
They got on just fine at the G20 meeting as the picture below shows.
(http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/52288526eab8ea214d8b456b-780-/obama-putin-g20.jpeg)
Obuma giving Putin a death stare. ::) :o ;D ;D ;D
As Churchill told us it is better to jaw, jaw than war, war.
Yep, and how right he was! :y :y :y
The trouble is that man has the inherent nature to go to war when the other side takes no notice. ::) ::) ::)
-
Russia appears to be softening and is more willing to listen (accept?) the evidence about Assad forces being responsible for war crimes against his own people.
:D :D ;)
...........
russian ministry today announced that they have evidence for the rebels using of gas rockets ;)
Yes, and now, contrary to earlier reports, Putin is again distancing himself from the western powers keen to go on the offensive against Assad. The group photograph at the St. Petersburg said it all! Putin was miles away from Obama! ::) ::) ::) :D :D ;)
::) what do you expect Lizzie ? despite all evidences Obama (actually not him-he is the operator) wants war.. would putin send kisses and flowers ;D
Perhaps not Cem ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
However, we are talking international politics, and Russia has got more at stake in the West than ever before. Politics could therefore make his hand swing towards some form of operation with other UN forces to at least control both sides in Syria, as a peace keeping operation, without actually using his military forces. Politics, politics - who knows what could happen next?
Remember no one expected Stalin to join forces with Nazi Germany over the Polish question.But he did! ;) ;)
for now we can easily say that US dont want peace, they want oil and ready to pay whatever the price is..
Syria is a minor portion of middle east plans and and when its complete , they will step onto the next phase..
-
1.Where Russia has a strategic interest in Syria with their only base in the Med, then Putin will back Assad come what may.
I think 2. it is unfortunate that Russia did not exert more pressure from the beginning on Assad to enact political reforms and give the population more freedom, it Assad had done so he may have avoided the civil war. :(
1.correct and agreed.. its important for them.. and they also see the bigger plan so want to stop it.. question is how much risk Russians will take..
2.most middle east countries are in similiar state Rods.. less or more.. however, Syria was not that bad before.. my job friends visited the country and didnt encounter any major freedom problem.. however , as usual freedom is just a marketing word for declaring war.. and I must remind if you pay the price you can start a civil war in any country.. if you have enough deep pockets.. but syria anyway was not a developed country had economical problems, different religions different sects so it was easy to provoke.. and if you pay talibans, it wont cost much ;D (even we could pay ::) ;D and we did pay :( :( )
-
Freedom is all a matter of perspective ::)
A strict Islamic way of doing things might look ok from Turkey, yet worryingly restrictive and controlling from here.
Equally, from Damascus, London and New York must look like the twin cities of Soddom and Gommorah :-\
To misquote Morse from Cherubim and Seraphim, 'We strive for freedom, yet spend our lives bound in property chains'
-
"High-Level U.S. Intelligence Officers: Syrian Government Didn’t Launch Chemical Weapons"
Some sobering reading here:
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-09-07/high-level-us-intelligence-officers-syrian-government-didn%E2%80%99t-launch-chemical- (http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-09-07/high-level-us-intelligence-officers-syrian-government-didn%E2%80%99t-launch-chemical-)
:o
I'm afraid this (Nickbats) critical post will remain unseen and left in shadow :(
-
"High-Level U.S. Intelligence Officers: Syrian Government Didn’t Launch Chemical Weapons"
Some sobering reading here:
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-09-07/high-level-us-intelligence-officers-syrian-government-didn%E2%80%99t-launch-chemical- (http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-09-07/high-level-us-intelligence-officers-syrian-government-didn%E2%80%99t-launch-chemical-)
:o
I'm afraid this (Nickbats) critical post will remain unseen and left in shadow :(
I hope not Cem. Here is an embedded link in the ZeroHedge story. Incredible if true. :o
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/09/12-u-s-intelligence-officials-tell-obama-it-wasnt-assad.html (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/09/12-u-s-intelligence-officials-tell-obama-it-wasnt-assad.html)
-
"High-Level U.S. Intelligence Officers: Syrian Government Didn’t Launch Chemical Weapons"
Some sobering reading here:
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-09-07/high-level-us-intelligence-officers-syrian-government-didn%E2%80%99t-launch-chemical- (http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-09-07/high-level-us-intelligence-officers-syrian-government-didn%E2%80%99t-launch-chemical-)
:o
I'm afraid this (Nickbats) critical post will remain unseen and left in shadow :(
I hope not Cem. Here is an embedded link in the ZeroHedge story. Incredible if true. :o
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/09/12-u-s-intelligence-officials-tell-obama-it-wasnt-assad.html (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/09/12-u-s-intelligence-officials-tell-obama-it-wasnt-assad.html)
I dont see any reason for it to be fake.. and I hope/wish there is no finger from my country >:(
-
"High-Level U.S. Intelligence Officers: Syrian Government Didn’t Launch Chemical Weapons"
Some sobering reading here:
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-09-07/high-level-us-intelligence-officers-syrian-government-didn%E2%80%99t-launch-chemical- (http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-09-07/high-level-us-intelligence-officers-syrian-government-didn%E2%80%99t-launch-chemical-)
:o
I'm afraid this (Nickbats) critical post will remain unseen and left in shadow :(
I hope not Cem. Here is an embedded link in the ZeroHedge story. Incredible if true. :o
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/09/12-u-s-intelligence-officials-tell-obama-it-wasnt-assad.html (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/09/12-u-s-intelligence-officials-tell-obama-it-wasnt-assad.html)
I dont see any reason for it to be fake.. and I hope/wish there is no finger from my country >:(
Just be aware that Zero Hedge has writers from Eastern Europe and their Syrian stories are written with a certainty that nobody else seems to have in the current fog of war in the Syrian conflict and like all Zero Hedge stories are written anonymously under the pseudonym of Tyler Durden, a character from the novel Flight Club. :o :o :o :o :o
-
"High-Level U.S. Intelligence Officers: Syrian Government Didn’t Launch Chemical Weapons"
Some sobering reading here:
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-09-07/high-level-us-intelligence-officers-syrian-government-didn%E2%80%99t-launch-chemical- (http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-09-07/high-level-us-intelligence-officers-syrian-government-didn%E2%80%99t-launch-chemical-)
:o
I'm afraid this (Nickbats) critical post will remain unseen and left in shadow :(
I hope not Cem. Here is an embedded link in the ZeroHedge story. Incredible if true. :o
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/09/12-u-s-intelligence-officials-tell-obama-it-wasnt-assad.html (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/09/12-u-s-intelligence-officials-tell-obama-it-wasnt-assad.html)
I dont see any reason for it to be fake.. and I hope/wish there is no finger from my country >:(
Just be aware that Zero Hedge has writers from Eastern Europe and their Syrian stories are written with a certainty that nobody else seems to have in the current fog of war in the Syrian conflict and like all Zero Hedge stories are written anonymously under the pseudonym of Tyler Durden, a character from the novel Flight Club. :o :o :o :o :o
no one will want to loose job ::)
-
Just be aware that Zero Hedge has writers from Eastern Europe and their Syrian stories are written with a certainty that nobody else seems to have in the current fog of war in the Syrian conflict and like all Zero Hedge stories are written anonymously under the pseudonym of Tyler Durden, a character from the novel Flight Club. :o :o :o :o :o
Agreed, Rods, but the letter from Ray McGovern is surely genuine. You can't make people like that up and hope to get away with it. ;)
-
Russia appears to be softening and is more willing to listen (accept?) the evidence about Assad forces being responsible for war crimes against his own people.
:D :D ;)
...........
russian ministry today announced that they have evidence for the rebels using of gas rockets ;)
Yes, and now, contrary to earlier reports, Putin is again distancing himself from the western powers keen to go on the offensive against Assad. The group photograph at the St. Petersburg said it all! Putin was miles away from Obama! ::) ::) ::) :D :D ;)
::) what do you expect Lizzie ? despite all evidences Obama (actually not him-he is the operator) wants war.. would putin send kisses and flowers ;D
Perhaps not Cem ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
However, we are talking international politics, and Russia has got more at stake in the West than ever before. Politics could therefore make his hand swing towards some form of operation with other UN forces to at least control both sides in Syria, as a peace keeping operation, without actually using his military forces. Politics, politics - who knows what could happen next?
Remember no one expected Stalin to join forces with Nazi Germany over the Polish question.But he did! ;) ;)
for now we can easily say that US dont want peace, they want oil and ready to pay whatever the price is..
Syria is a minor portion of middle east plans and and when its complete , they will step onto the next phase..
Ah, but Cem have you noticed that something has occurred for the first time since 1945? The USA has suddenly found that they cannot have it all their own way with the rest of the world. Their power is declining, and they cannot do just what they want to. The American public will not let the White House do it, no more than the British public in general will allow their politicians to get away with it.
America is finding out in it's own way that they are no longer the unlimited power in the world; other people's views matter. Just as the British found out in 1956 over Suez, there comes a time when your old hegemony no longer exists. ::) ::) ::) ;)
-
Russia appears to be softening and is more willing to listen (accept?) the evidence about Assad forces being responsible for war crimes against his own people.
:D :D ;)
...........
russian ministry today announced that they have evidence for the rebels using of gas rockets ;)
Yes, and now, contrary to earlier reports, Putin is again distancing himself from the western powers keen to go on the offensive against Assad. The group photograph at the St. Petersburg said it all! Putin was miles away from Obama! ::) ::) ::) :D :D ;)
::) what do you expect Lizzie ? despite all evidences Obama (actually not him-he is the operator) wants war.. would putin send kisses and flowers ;D
Perhaps not Cem ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
However, we are talking international politics, and Russia has got more at stake in the West than ever before. Politics could therefore make his hand swing towards some form of operation with other UN forces to at least control both sides in Syria, as a peace keeping operation, without actually using his military forces. Politics, politics - who knows what could happen next?
Remember no one expected Stalin to join forces with Nazi Germany over the Polish question.But he did! ;) ;)
for now we can easily say that US dont want peace, they want oil and ready to pay whatever the price is..
Syria is a minor portion of middle east plans and and when its complete , they will step onto the next phase..
Ah, but Cem have you noticed that something has occurred for the first time since 1945? The USA has suddenly found that they cannot have it all their own way with the rest of the world. Their power is declining, and they cannot do just what they want to. The American public will not let the White House do it, no more than the British public in general will allow their politicians to get away with it.
America is finding out in it's own way that they are no longer the unlimited power in the world; other people's views matter. Just as the British found out in 1956 over Suez, there comes a time when your old hegemony no longer exists. ::) ::) ::) ;)
I also think Bush and BLiar did major damage with their untruths for their justification to invade Iraq, which I still think was to finish the job his dad started and then messed up the peace and then his son did the same, so there are still 1-2,000 people killed per month their in sectarian violence. Afghanistan has also been a bad war for the west, which is not winnable with the support the Taliban get from Iran and Pakistan. The west is war weary and fed up with seeing the body bags and maimed brave soldiers who are at the sharp end and taking the brunt of this.
We are better off letting the Middle East sort out their problems through in-fighting and the Arab league. The infighting from the various tribal factions factions is not going to go away with whoever is in power, hence the 1-2000 a month killed in Iraq even though they have a 'democracy' which by all party expression is meant to stop this sort of thing. :o :o :o :o
If we or our interests are directly threatened, then I am all for taking the appropriate diplomatic and military action, but this is not the case with Syria, however vile and a war crime the use of poison gas is by whoever has used it. >:( >:( >:(
-
That sums it up for me Rods2
Democracy does not work with these inbreads.
I genuinly feel for the people who have lost there lifes in all these conflicts but nothing will ever change the followers of mohamed.
They will always do there best to kill each other so why waste our time, money and blood trying to teach them how to be civil.
If any of them should try to interfear with our interests then we should politely ask them the stop.
If that doesnt work then we should use all and I mean ALL resorces to win not just the battle but the war.
Until that happens ........... keep our noses out imo
-
Syria chemical weapons attack not ordered by Assad, says German press
Bild am Sonntag cites high-level German surveillance source suggesting Syrian president was not personally behind attacks
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/08/syria-chemical-weapons-not-assad-bild#start-of-comments (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/08/syria-chemical-weapons-not-assad-bild#start-of-comments)
::) ::) ;)
-
Anyone think the Typhoons scambled other day from Cyprus was Syria testing the water & our/USA reactions?
If USA does go in, no doubt a cruise Missile or two from a sub or a Destroyer. But unlike other "Wars" Syria has got some punch to it, attack the USA's base in Northern Cyprus maybe?
-
Anyone think the Typhoons scambled other day from Cyprus was Syria testing the water & our/USA reactions?
If USA does go in, no doubt a cruise Missile or two from a sub or a Destroyer. But unlike other "Wars" Syria has got some punch to it, attack the USA's base in Northern Cyprus maybe?
Nick , when the missiles launched , no one can predict the aftermath.. it wont stop there and both sides will play their cards.. :-\ although there is pressure on politicians, I dont think this will stop the initial decision.. :(
-
Anyone think the Typhoons scambled other day from Cyprus was Syria testing the water & our/USA reactions?
If USA does go in, no doubt a cruise Missile or two from a sub or a Destroyer. But unlike other "Wars" Syria has got some punch to it, attack the USA's base in Northern Cyprus maybe?
Nick , when the missiles launched , no one can predict the aftermath.. it wont stop there and both sides will play their cards.. :-\ although there is pressure on politicians, I dont think this will stop the initial decision.. :(
T'was Tunnie, not me, Cem. ;)
-
Syria chemical weapons attack not ordered by Assad, says German press
Bild am Sonntag cites high-level German surveillance source suggesting Syrian president was not personally behind attacks
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/08/syria-chemical-weapons-not-assad-bild#start-of-comments (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/08/syria-chemical-weapons-not-assad-bild#start-of-comments)
::) ::) ;)
I quite prepared to believe that Assad did not order the attack, but was it committed by out of control factions within Assad's army and is he losing his grip on power, or was it committed by the rebels and this I don't think is clear. :(
-
Well what we know is
There are a lot of boys with toys they are just itching to use. Just watch the Israelis when the fireworks start.
Al Qaeda will be the victors when the dust settles.
The losers will be tax payers and the local populaces.
As an aside, I had to smile at the oil auctions recently in Iraq. Very very little coverage by Western Media of the biggest oil auction in 150 years of oil exploration. Why? Well the USA won only one minor field. The Iraqi's showed their friendship? and skill by demanding and getting exorbitant minimum pumping rights which kept the traditional explorers away rightly or wrongly. Iraq may turn out to have the worlds biggest oil reserves even more than our "friends" the Saudis(Al Qaeda sponsors).
-
Anyone think the Typhoons scambled other day from Cyprus was Syria testing the water & our/USA reactions?
If USA does go in, no doubt a cruise Missile or two from a sub or a Destroyer. But unlike other "Wars" Syria has got some punch to it, attack the USA's base in Northern Cyprus maybe?
Nick , when the missiles launched , no one can predict the aftermath.. it wont stop there and both sides will play their cards.. :-\ although there is pressure on politicians, I dont think this will stop the initial decision.. :(
T'was Tunnie, not me, Cem. ;)
umph! :P
rule : dont post when you are in hurry ;D
-
Syria chemical weapons attack not ordered by Assad, says German press
Bild am Sonntag cites high-level German surveillance source suggesting Syrian president was not personally behind attacks
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/08/syria-chemical-weapons-not-assad-bild#start-of-comments (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/08/syria-chemical-weapons-not-assad-bild#start-of-comments)
::) ::) ;)
I quite prepared to believe that Assad did not order the attack, but was it committed by out of control factions within Assad's army and is he losing his grip on power, or was it committed by the rebels and this I don't think is clear. :(
Why get bogged down with details when some folks are just itching to get on with it and bomb something! ;) ::) ::)
-
Looks like the Russians have wrong-footed Obama. ;)
-
The removal of chemical weapons has got to be in everybody's interest. The devil will be in the detail of such a plan and the willingness of Assad to do so. Will he just give the weapons inspectors the run around like Saddam Hussain?
I received a long letter back from my MP today in response to my email before the commons debate on why he voted against military action. It is broadly in line with our views on here, where he can't see how it would improve the current situation in Syria and may well make it worse.
-
The removal of chemical weapons has got to be in everybody's interest. The devil will be in the detail of such a plan and the willingness of Assad to do so. Will he just give the weapons inspectors the run around like Saddam Hussain?
I received a long letter back from my MP today in response to my email before the commons debate on why he voted against military action. It is broadly in line with our views on here, where he can't see how it would improve the current situation in Syria and may well make it worse.
That's quite impressive and good to see that at least one of our elected representatives takes his constituents views seriously. :y
-
The removal of chemical weapons has got to be in everybody's interest. The devil will be in the detail of such a plan and the willingness of Assad to do so. Will he just give the weapons inspectors the run around like Saddam Hussain?
I received a long letter back from my MP today in response to my email before the commons debate on why he voted against military action. It is broadly in line with our views on here, where he can't see how it would improve the current situation in Syria and may well make it worse.
That's quite impressive and good to see that at least one of our elected representatives takes one of his constituents views seriously. :y
Fixed :y
Joking aside, it is reassuring that some of them pay attention :y
-
The removal of chemical weapons has got to be in everybody's interest. The devil will be in the detail of such a plan and the willingness of Assad to do so. Will he just give the weapons inspectors the run around like Saddam Hussain?
I received a long letter back from my MP today in response to my email before the commons debate on why he voted against military action. It is broadly in line with our views on here, where he can't see how it would improve the current situation in Syria and may well make it worse.
That's quite impressive and good to see that at least one of our elected representatives takes one of his constituents views seriously. :y
Fixed :y
Joking aside, it is reassuring that some of them pay attention :y
Our MP is one of a new intake of MPs at the last election and he regularly meets the locals by volunteering to work for an evening in a pub in our constituency, so he gets to meet people and hears their views. The house behind my next door neighbours put in a planning application for a massive summer house with a 4m ridgeline the full width of the garden and right on the rear boundary. We both put in objections and he contacted our MP who agreed that is was not suitable for the location, gave his full support and arranged a planning committee site visit, which once they got a tape measure out and realised how intrusive it would be, a majority turned it down.
Chris Gixer's MP, John Redwood is also very good where he writes a daily blog and has a comments section for feedback. On issues where he has no strong views he will vote according to his constituents wishes.
-
I received an email from 'Write To Them' tonight asking if I had had a reply, had to say no as this point......... :-X :-X
-
UN report shows deliberate use of chemical weapons on a hospital:
"UN Mission also finds that, on the same day, the army directly and intentionally
attacked the Al Quds Hospital and the adjacent ambulance depot with white
phosphorous shells."
Report of the United Nations Fact Finding Mission 15 September 2009 para 35 (http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2009/09/15/UNFFMGCReport.pdf)
http://www.clevelandchallenger.com/u-s-media-suppressed-2009-un-report-showing-israel-using-chemical-weapons-against-palestinians/ (http://www.clevelandchallenger.com/u-s-media-suppressed-2009-un-report-showing-israel-using-chemical-weapons-against-palestinians/)
That site seems to be down a lot here is a similar Guardian report:
Human Rights Watch report claims war crimes committed in use of air-burst white phosphorus artillery shells (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/25/israel-white-phosphorus-gaza)
-
UN report shows deliberate use of chemical weapons on a hospital:
"UN Mission also finds that, on the same day, the army directly and intentionally
attacked the Al Quds Hospital and the adjacent ambulance depot with white
phosphorous shells."
Report of the United Nations Fact Finding Mission 15 September 2009 para 35 (http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2009/09/15/UNFFMGCReport.pdf)
http://www.clevelandchallenger.com/u-s-media-suppressed-2009-un-report-showing-israel-using-chemical-weapons-against-palestinians/ (http://www.clevelandchallenger.com/u-s-media-suppressed-2009-un-report-showing-israel-using-chemical-weapons-against-palestinians/)
That site seems to be down a lot here is a similar Guardian report:
Human Rights Watch report claims war crimes committed in use of air-burst white phosphorus artillery shells (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/25/israel-white-phosphorus-gaza)
assad family is keeping the power in their hands for many years.. they are not that stupid to use chemical weapons after saddams end..
and who claims that must show the proofs .. cant see anything related to see syria or am I blind :-\
-
UN report shows deliberate use of chemical weapons on a hospital:
"UN Mission also finds that, on the same day, the army directly and intentionally
attacked the Al Quds Hospital and the adjacent ambulance depot with white
phosphorous shells."
Report of the United Nations Fact Finding Mission 15 September 2009 para 35 (http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2009/09/15/UNFFMGCReport.pdf)
http://www.clevelandchallenger.com/u-s-media-suppressed-2009-un-report-showing-israel-using-chemical-weapons-against-palestinians/ (http://www.clevelandchallenger.com/u-s-media-suppressed-2009-un-report-showing-israel-using-chemical-weapons-against-palestinians/)
That site seems to be down a lot here is a similar Guardian report:
Human Rights Watch report claims war crimes committed in use of air-burst white phosphorus artillery shells (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/25/israel-white-phosphorus-gaza)
assad family is keeping the power in their hands for many years.. they are not that stupid to use chemical weapons after saddams end..
and who claims that must show the proofs .. cant see anything related to see syria or am I blind :-\
No it wasn't Syria chemically attacking the hospital it was the country that holds the record for ignoring United Nations Security Council resolutions (http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/study-israel-leads-in-ignoring-security-council-resolutions-1.31971) and is currently in breach of over 44 UN resolutions (http://www.uscrusade.com/forum/config.pl/noframes/read/1372). Unlike both Syria and Iran they have never signed the Nuclear Non Proliferation treaty nor ratified the Chemical Weapons Convention.
The US does send plenty of bombs to them but they go by ship not plane.
-
our pilots shot down a syrian chopter >:( very good we need a war which is not ours >:( >:( >:( >:(
my govt have spent 2 billion $ for those b*st*rds (rebels)
and look what they do >:( >:( >:( >:(
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fe5_1379358778 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fe5_1379358778)
http://www.odatv.com/vid_video.php?id=8C61F (http://www.odatv.com/vid_video.php?id=8C61F) (click reklamı atla - skip ad)
-
Two stories of atrocities one from each side and this is why we should be steering clear of any involvement.
WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2420263/As-rebels-behead-Assads-thugs-children-question-really-sides-Syrias-bloodbath.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2420263/As-rebels-behead-Assads-thugs-children-question-really-sides-Syrias-bloodbath.html)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2422373/Mothers-shot-cradled-babies-newlyweds-executed-side-deaths-streets-ran-blood-The-sickening-massacre-Syria-tried-hide.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2422373/Mothers-shot-cradled-babies-newlyweds-executed-side-deaths-streets-ran-blood-The-sickening-massacre-Syria-tried-hide.html)
-
our pilots shot down a syrian chopter >:( very good we need a war which is not ours >:( >:( >:( >:(
my govt have spent 2 billion $ for those b*st*rds (rebels)
and look what they do >:( >:( >:( >:(
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fe5_1379358778 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fe5_1379358778)
http://www.odatv.com/vid_video.php?id=8C61F (http://www.odatv.com/vid_video.php?id=8C61F) (click reklamı atla - skip ad)
Animals >:( >:( >:( >:(
As the top commenter posted:
Geneva convention (not that it matters for those scumbags):
Article 42 - Occupants of aircraft
1. No person parachuting from an aircraft in distress shall be made the object of attack during his descent.
2. Upon reaching the ground in territory controlled by an adverse Party, a person who has parachuted from an aircraft in distress shall be given an opportunity to surrender before being made the object of attack, unless it is apparent that he is engaging in a hostile act.
Bloodlust is sickening. >:( >:(
-
our pilots shot down a syrian chopter >:( very good we need a war which is not ours >:( >:( >:( >:(
my govt have spent 2 billion $ for those b*st*rds (rebels)
and look what they do >:( >:( >:( >:(
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fe5_1379358778 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fe5_1379358778)
http://www.odatv.com/vid_video.php?id=8C61F (http://www.odatv.com/vid_video.php?id=8C61F) (click reklamı atla - skip ad)
Animals >:( >:( >:( >:(
As the top commenter posted:
Geneva convention (not that it matters for those scumbags):
Article 42 - Occupants of aircraft
1. No person parachuting from an aircraft in distress shall be made the object of attack during his descent.
2. Upon reaching the ground in territory controlled by an adverse Party, a person who has parachuted from an aircraft in distress shall be given an opportunity to surrender before being made the object of attack, unless it is apparent that he is engaging in a hostile act.
Bloodlust is sickening. >:( >:(
all agreed Nickbat..
problem is those scumbags actually belong to pre-historic ages not this century >:(